=====================================================================
&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
=====================================================================
 

&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;&#9;25.07.1996&#9;NAME:&#9;NTOMBENKULU BUSANG

CASE: &#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;SOWETO

DAY 4

__________________________________________________________

CHAIRPERSON: I will ask Ntombekulu Busang to stand up, please.

CHAIRPERSON: Which language are you talking, are you Xhosa or ... I will ask you to take the oath, please

NTOMBENKULU BUSANG: (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: I thank you. I don't know, will you tell us and introduce, tell us as to whether the one who is accompaning you will say something as well.

MRS BUSANG: I can't hear, because this is not on. She is going to add the arrangements of leaving, because she is the one was in charge of doing that.

CHAIRPERSON: We will ask Joyce Seroke, one of the Commissioners to lead you when you go ahead. Joyce Seroke, take over, please.

MS SEROKE: I greet you, Madam Busang and the one who is accompanying you. I will kindly ask that briefly tell us about your son's life, when he was still with you, living with you, just before he left for abroad, where he met this tragedy.

MRS BUSANG: This child of mine, first of all, he was going to school at Krugersdorp. 

MS SEROKE: Please tell us his name as well, because in your statement I think you forgot to make mention of his name.

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;2&#9;N BUSANG

MRS BUSANG: His name is Sandile Patrick Mvundla. 

MS SEROKE: You may carry on.

MRS BUSANG: He attended school at Krugersdorp. The school's name was Sandile. When he got out of that school I got married and I left for Soweto and I was working. I brought him as well to Soweto after he had passed his Std 6. When he had passed his Std 6, coming to join me, he went to Dr Villegas, which is a school. He went to school there and passed his Form 3 and passed his Form 4. As he was still attending school, the 1976 riots began. In 1976 I was working but working away from home. So the sister was home with them.

&#9;When the riots began in 1976, I was working at the flats upstairs, that's when I discovered that. I saw so much smoke in Soweto all over and I was wondering as to what was happening. I asked if I may go home so I may see what is happening. I found out that Soweto was on fire, everything was burning. I spoke to Patrick. I said to Patrick please, your sister is still growing up, please look after your sister, don't be all over the the location with your friends. Patrick said yes, mom.

&#9;One day when I was still at work, when I was going to get a piece of paper, the newspaper, when I read from the newspaper that he was on the front page, leading the riots. I took this newspaper, I looked at it thoroughly. I was shocked and I was not too sure if this is my son. I went to my boss. I asked her to take a look at this. She also said yes, it is your son. I asked may I go back home.

&#9;I asked Patrick, what do you want from these children. I didn't know what was happening. I said to him what do you want. He said to me no, mom - right then boers came looking SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;3&#9;N BUSANG

for him. They were looking for him. He was running away up to the time when they got him and arrested him.

&#9;When went to his trial he was discharged. No, he wasn't in prison for long. When he got out he came back. He went to Kagiso. When he went to Kagiso we just heard that the school burnt down. The school burnt down.

&#9; He came back home the Wednesday night. When he got home he slept. Right then suddenly police came. I said Patrick, here are the police, what have you done now. He said to me open for them, mom. I opened for them. They took him. He just walked so easily with them. He left with them. 

&#9;He was in prison in Krugersdorp. When his case was on at No 4, I went there as well. When the case was on he was discharged, because his uncle was an attorney so he was set free.

&#9;After that I asked him Patrick, what is happening, what are you doing. He said to me mom, please sit down, I want to explain to you as to what is happening. Patrick sat down and explained to me everything. Now I got to understand what was happening, because I was in the dark, I didn't know what was going on. 

&#9;After that, boers were often coming to my place, day and night all the time, until they arrested my daughter as well for some book that was in her briefcase in her schoolbag. That book was Patrick's book and they arrested her. They took her to Protea.

&#9;When she was at Protea I left with the lady that I was working for. We left for Pretoria to release her and she was set free. After that the brother was nowhere to be found. Actually he was in Durban. The boers came back again, they 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;4&#9;N BUSANG

were 19 in number. They surrounded the house, looking for him. He was not around, he was in Durban. He called me at work just before he came back. I said to Patrick, Patrick, things are bad here, I don't know where to take you now because they came, they came. He asid no, mom, it is okay, I will see what I will do, but I will come back. I said don't come home, because when you come home they will arrest you. 

&#9;He arrived and I went to meet him at the station in Johannesburg. He left for Showela. He arrived on Friday, in 1979 ...

MS SEROKE: Please, give her a chance to compose herself.

MRS BUSANG: When he had left, Norman came back. When he got here he had toilet paper and on that toilet paper, it was actually a letter. That's where he wrote messages like mom, I travelled well, I arrived safely. I was happy, but I was also worried, because we didn't know where he was or where he was going to. 

&#9;Aroung 1978, no, I mean, it was in 1987, it was 1987. He sent someone, a girl. He sent this girl to my home. When he had sent the girl to let me know that he is still alive. He said mom, we will make arrangements that you come to Botswana. I said how can I go to Botswana, because this police here said that I should not take any passport, I should not take anything. Each time I get a call from you I must let them be aware. Then I was confused how can I do this. 

&#9;Fortunately there was another girl who was getting married in Botswana. That's how I managed to go to Botswana to meet my son in Botswana. I arrived and I found him there. He was so fat, he had gained so much weight. He had SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;5&#9;N BUSANG

gained so much weight. I said Pat, he said to me mamma, you know what, when I have seen you I am so happy, we are just nearing to coming home, we will be back home soon. I said Pat, we were talking through the night. We did not sleep that night. We were there, it was in 1979, we were with him until we came back. 

MS SEROKE: Excuse me, ma'am, you meant to say 1987, isn't it? Because you are saying every time you went to Botswana, you said 1979 mistakenly?

MRS BUSANG: In 1988 I therefore left. I meant to say in 1988. I received a phone call. No, I mean to say on the 28th of March when he died, we heard that there is this thing in Botswana; people were being bombed, it was three girls and he was the fourth one in that house, the house they occupied. I had spoken to him on the phone telling him that I will be coming to him on Good Friday during the Easter weekend. He was still alive then. I said I will come in the next Good Friday, which was in 1988. The bomb exploded when I was supposed to leave on Friday.

&#9;On the Friday when the bomb exploded I tried to go to Botswana, feeling also that there is something, but I hadn't heard yet that he had died, but still I went. 

&#9;When I arrived in Botswana where he used to be he was no longer there. They used to change places, they would move from one place to another. He was not there. I had tried to locate him, up until I went to the police station to ask for accommodation. You know I was feeling so uncomfortable, feeling that this bomb, maybe my child was there as well. But he had a girlfriend that he was in love with and I remember the house. I said to the policeman when we slept there, they asked me will you locate the house when SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;6&#9;N BUSANG

we take you to the area. I said yes, I will when, when you can help me locate it. Truly the police took me. But I never told them why I was there, because I was somehow scared, frightened that they will probably arrest me if I tell them the truth.

&#9;When we got there the police helped me to try and locate the house until we located it. When we got there we found the people that were not there. The people were not there, they had left. We were surprised. Now we left. We went to the neighbour for accommodation. We asked them to accommodate us. 

&#9;When we slept at the neighbours' place, they came, they arrived, it was on Sunday afternoon. When these people arrived they said you know ... You know, they were just lost somehow, because the girl was in love with my son.

&#9;There was a telephone call. The other one was asking why don't you tell her, why don't you tell the woman - that is his mother, why don't you tell the woman that it is her son. The other one said we must go home, we must go away. We left with my sister. We went to sleep in the same house the following day. We came back home.

&#9;It was on a Tuesday. On the Wednesday we had a telephone message saying that that was Patrick, the one who is dead is Patrick. It was Mapula who is Patrick's girlfriend, the one who told us that it is Patrick, Patrick has died. When Mapula was saying that, I dropped the phone. People heard me screaming.

MS SEROKE: We will ask you to tell us that. I will ask you briefly to tell us, as you have already told us, the history and background of your son. Explain to us as to what happened after you heard that your son has been shot, and 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;7&#9;N BUSANG

then we will continue from there.

MRS BUSANG: I got a telephone message, a telephone call from Botswana, and it was Mapula, the girlfriend who made the call. She said Patrick has died, because in Botswana they used to call him Charles Mkwena.

&#9;She said it is Patrick who has died. That's when I just threw the phone receiver down and then my children came and my daughter came and left to make the arrangements for the funeral. She tried to find people who could help us as to what we can do, so that we can go, I can go also.

&#9;After that she left with another boy by the name of David. I will give it over to her for her to explain, because she is the one who left. 

MS SEROKE: We will ask your daughter to be brief because we will just ask her to say what you did not say.

MS BUSANG: Right. It was around six o'clock. David Leo, at that time he was a student. He was a law student. He used to live in 91B. He came and when he came he said where is the ANC. I said Mrs Jane and Christina the late, around.

&#9;They had gone to Winnie Mandela at the time. David said no, let's get out and we left. We went to Dr Motlana. When we got to Dr Motlana, Dr Motlana asked our names and we told him, that we wanted some help and assistance so we could go to bury Patrick. Dr Motlana said no, he did not have any kind of assistance that he will render to us. So we left. 

&#9;We left and went to Rev Chikane at Pimville. We explained the circumstance that we were in. Rev Chikane said no, we cannot give you money now; we will kindly ask you to be back tomorrow around five, because we had arranged that the mother will fly alone. Because it looked like Mrs 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;8&#9;N BUSANG

Chikane was employed at the airport at the time. The arrangements for my mother were already made.

MS SEROKE: Thank you. 

MS BUSANG: Then after that we left with David. The thing is David had already taken me to the attorneys of Ajapo, De at Villiers Street, Aubrey, to find out if I cannot fly together with mom to Botswana. David Leo went to consult the attorney Ajapo. He came back to tell me, because I was outside, when he was inside. He said to me listen, they will only allow mamma, to go to Botswana, because that country is an underground thing, so they cannot actually allow you to go as well. We went to Rev Chikane and Rev Chikane said we will come in the following morning to get some money in the name of (indistinct), I am not too sure.

MRS BUSANG: David was the one who helped us with even the transport, up to the following morning, when my mom went to Rev Chikane to get the money to the airport. They asked Ma Jane to accompany my mother to go to Botswana to bury Patrick.

&#9;On the Thursday my mother left. When we arrived at the airport everything was ready. Everything was in order. We boarded the plane and we flew and when we got at the border, we met the CID already awaiting for us. When we got off with Ma Jane they asked are you Mrs Busang, the mother of the late Patrick. I said yes. I didn't say, I could not say - I actually said no, I am not the one. They said no, we are just here to provide security for you, you look alike. I therefore said yes, I am the one. They therefore took us in a car. We first went to the police station. The funeral was going to be around two, and we have arrived at nine. It was on Thursday, on the 6th. When we arrived at the police 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;9&#9;MRS N BUSANG

station, and they took a statement. 

&#9;This girl, Mapula, was the one who gave me a call. She was at the airport with the sister riding a car. We went with her to the police station, with her and Mapula. When she was giving the statement she said to me don't say - don't tell the policeman that I am the girlfriend of Patrick. You know, because I was mourning, I was just confused. I asked myself after a while, why would she say I should not tell the policeman that she is the girlfriend of Patrick. You know, she was looking, she was highly dressed up, so roughly, and yet she is a lady who dresses elegant. She looked very different and strange, like a person who was in disguise.

&#9;I kept quiet. Mamma Jane was there giving a statement. The police said this is the Mapula who was in love with this Charles, Patrick. That's why they called him Charles. So they were asking is she not the one who was in love with Charles. You know, it was something that just ended there.

&#9;Because I could not speak properly and Auntie Jane held me. We were done with the police. They had taken their tatements, we were done. Now we are supposed to go to the mortuary. When we arrived at the mortuary they said to me we cannot see him because there are many of them. (PAUSE). 

MS SEROKE: Okay, Mamma. 

MRS BUSANG: Can I please ask for your patience, please. Even this thing, this thing is a past thing, it has already happened, but I should relate the story. She gets bad in feelings. Just be patient with her.

MS SEROKE: So Mamma, they refused you to see your son. 

MRS BUSANG: I said to them - they told Mamma Jane, they said I cannot see him. No one is allowed. All of them who 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;10&#9;MRS N BUSANG

were dead, even the parents of the girls that died together with her, they said they refused her, they said you cannot see those children. It ended there and we left. We went to church. That's where the occasion took place. They brought the coffins, the four of them, into the church building and a prayer was offered.

MS SEROKE: In your statement, Mamma, you say there never was any kind of inquest, but those who were there did explain that why that house was bombed and who actually bombed the house.

MRS BUSANG: They were looking for my son. They were bombing the house because they wanted to kill my son.

MS SEROKE: Do you know who were those looking for him?

MRS BUSANG: No, I don't know.

MS SEROKE: You say when Patrick was still a student, you were not aware that he was involved in politics?

MRS BUSANG: No, I am not aware.

MS SEROKE: You only heard afterwards, when he was arrested. The first time when he was arrested, why was he arrested?

MRS BUSANG: The very first time, I don't really know why he was arrested. It was the time when they were marching, going to John Vorster.

MS SEROKE: And he was discharged.

MRS BUSANG: Yes.

MS SEROKE: The second occasion was when they burnt the school. Did they say he was one of those who burnt the school?

MRS BUSANG: Yes, they said so.

MS SEROKE: Now when he told you that he was leaving, did he tell you what he was going to do, where he was going to?

MRS BUSANG: He said to me he was actually escaping from the SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;11&#9;MRS N BUSANG

country, because lately South Africa is no longer good for him. He has joined the ANC, it is no longer safe for him to be here, he is leaving.

MS SEROKE: Now you explained to us that after you had seen from the newspaper that he was actually leading a march, did he sit down with you to explain to you why he joined those things? What did he say when he answered you?

MRS BUSANG: No, he did not tell me on that very day. He told me now, afterwards, when I started asking, whilst I was questioning him, whilst he explained it, he said he had joined the ANC struggle.

MS SEROKE: You say in 1987 you say there was this girl who arrived to tell you that he was still okay. Was this girl the same Mapula or was that somebody else?

MRS BUSANG: The name of the girl was Chicken, the first girl to tell us. Her name was Chicken.

MS SEROKE: As a person who was saying he was working for the ANC, he also needed some help from Rev Chikane who was a (indistinct). Didn't you go to the SACP to look for her?

MRS BUSANG: It was - all this happened very fast. It happened very fast and it was a bit late. 

MS SEROKE: After that, didn't the ANC help you after all this?

MRS BUSANG: After he came back, when I came back from the funeral. After the funeral the late Oliver Thambo sent his secretary to Botswana. After the funeral I thought I was going back home. Only to find out there was another arrangement for me to stay there two days after the funeral. His secretary was going to there on a Saturday. Mr Oliver Thambo's secretary. When he arrived he brought the amount of R6 000,00, saying that it is for sympathising with us. 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;12&#9;MRS N BUSANG

MS SEROKE: Thank you, Mamma Busang. I am going to hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, Mamma. I will give you to the other Commissioners to ask and get further clarity.

MR MANTHATA: My question would be, what would the family, together with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission want to do with regard to this, you know, problem that hurt you so much?

MRS BUSANG: I would like that the people who did this must come forward and confess in front of the Commission and tell all this, so that I will be able to forgive them.

MR MANTHATA: Thank you, Mamma. No further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Glenda Wildschut?

MS WILDSCHUT: Mrs Busang, I am not sure whether you have a death certificate. In your statement it says that the ANC is organising a death certificate. Do you have such a certificate in your possession?

MRS BUSANG: I don't have that death certificate, because they said that they will send it to me, because it was during the time of the old government, and now they say they are going to send me the death certificate.

MS WILDSCHUT: Maybe just a further question with regard to your son's burial. I take it that he was buried in Botswana?

MRS BUSANG: Yes.

MS WILDSCHUT: Are you satisfied for him to be buried in Botswana and has the family discussed at all whether he should be buried in South Africa?

MRS BUSANG: The fact that he was buried in Botswana, I wanted to request them to bring him home, but at the same time I could see that there was just a mix-up. They couldn't separate them. I requested that. I am not going to

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;13&#9;MRS N BUSANG

tell them to bring him for me. I just requested that they must just do one thing for all of them, one grave for them.

MS WILDSCHUT: I just want to understand you clearly. So you are saying that you would like to have at least something where all of them can be remembered here at home?

MRS BUSANG: I wanted to do that thing in Botswana, that remembrance. I am not sure if I am wrong or right. Because we were told that you are not going to see them, because they are mixed-up. I don't know even whether I am right or wrong.

MS WILDSCHUT: Yes, but we are trying to find out is what your wish is, what is the wish of yourself and the family with regard to your son and his burial. If I can just hear from you what your personal wish is with regard to your son and his burial.

MRS BUSANG: It is very painful because I don't have money of always going to his grave. If he was here next to me, that was going to be better, because I don't know what to do now.

MS WILDSCHUT: I am aware that to many families that is an important wish and I can understand that it is not easy for you to go to Botswana.

MRS BUSANG: Yes, that's very true, it is very true.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka?

MS SOOKA: I think Mamma, one of the things we want to ask, we know it is very painful for you, but when your son and - is it too fast? Are you not comfortable? 

MRS BUSANG: I can't hear you clearly.

MS SOOKA: Better? Can you hear me?

MRS BUSANG: Yes, okay.

MS SOOKA: When your son was buried in Botswana, were they 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;14&#9;MRS N BUSANG

all buried together in one grave with all the others who were in the same bomb attack?

MRS BUSANG: He was the first one and the girls followed.

MS SOOKA: Okay. I think what we would like to know is that what would bring you some kind of comfort, in what way would you like your son to be remembered, which would make you feel happy?

MRS BUSANG: I don't know. I am confused, I don't know whether I have got to go and fetch him there, or if we don't do that there should be some remembrance of some sort, a tombstone.

MS SOOKA: Thank you. Sorry, carry on, Mamma.

MRS BUSANG: Something like a moment with their names, I am not sure if it is possible.

MS SOOKA: Thank you, Mamma.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke?

MS SEROKE: Yasmin Sooka has already clarified the point I wanted to make. I would like to suggest to Mamma that because Mamma, you are still in pain, do you ever give yourself a chance to sit down and think about this and think about what you need, because it is clear that you are still in pain. You don't even know what to do, you don't know even what to request. I am going to suggest that you can sit down and discuss with the family and think about it, you can think about what you want, then you can come back to the Commission.

MRS BUSANG: The other thing that is causing me pain, because he was my eldest son, he was a commander of the ANC, he was a commander of the MK. He was having the medals, he had certificates, he had his own certificates, he had medals. (PAUSE).

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;15&#9;MRS N BUSANG

MS SEROKE: Comfort yourself, Mamma, we know that it is very painful. That is why I am saying that after you have collected yourself and you have discussed the issue with your family, you can come back to us as a family, with something, with your recommendations, with your requests. We know that it is actually irritating the wounds.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mamma, we appreciate that you came to this Commission. As you are still saying that your son had the highest position, he had certificates and medals. That one day is going to comfort you, when you think that in the short time you had with him, he actually (indistinct) and made things. Today we have commissions which are looking at such things, because of people like him. You must thank God, you must thank God because he didn't waste his time for nothing, by trying to intoxicate himself, actually he did something. He is one of our heroes, when the day we are (indistinct), we thank them, that they have fought a battle. The pain that you still have, we trust that as time goes on you are going to get some comfort in your heart. After all this some of us are also helping to comfort you all and some of the reverends or church ministers who will follow Mamma to help you, to help you and talk to you, until you go back home. But you must also contact us, because we have a lot of families like yours, which is looking forward in bringing people to bury them here in South Africa, and give you the opportunities to do things that you would like to do. Thank you very much, Mamma. Thank you.

MRS BUSANG: Thank you.

 

&#9;--------------

 

SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

