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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;26.09.1996&#9;&#9;NAME: SELLO PAULOS MOTHUSI

CASE: 01519 &#9; KLERKSDORP

DAY 4

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CHAIRPERSON: Sello, good morning. 

MR MOTHUSI: Good morning, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Are you well?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, I am very well.

CHAIRPERSON: Sello, you have brought a lady who is accompanying you this morning, can you please introduce her to us?

MR MOTHUSI: This is my mother, her name is Rebecca Mothusi.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mothusi, I welcome you too. Thank you for coming. Sello, you too come from Kanana. Again, we are going to that, as other people have pointed out already, the year 1986 was a particularly terrible year for our history. I am sure when our history books are rewritten, that year will stand out. I don't know whether people have seen the graph that is on the board outside. But that graph shows from year to year how many human rights violations took place. As early as - and our work as we are at the present time, 1986 already stands out. Before I hand over to Adv Potgieter, Commissioner Potgieter who is sitting over there, I would please like you to stand to take the oath.

SELLO PAULOS MOTHUSI; (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Sello. Commissioner Potgieter.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you, Dr Randera. Mr Mothusi, good morning again and welcome here. 

KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;2&#9;S P MOTHUSI

MR MOTHUSI: Good morning, Sir.

MR POTGIETER: Your evidence relates to another shooting incident when you personally were shot and injured by members of the police in May of 1986, but before we come to that, before we come to the actual incident, perhaps we can just talk about your personal circumstances. Perhaps you can tell us what you do, what your age is, whether you are married, whether you have children, where you live. So that we know who we are talking to.

MR MOTHUSI: I am Sello Paulos Mothusi. I am 31 years old. I don't have a child, I don't have a wife. I am not working, I am just at home, doing nothing.

MR POTGIETER: Who cares for you, is it your parents?

MR MOTHUSI: My parents are taking care of me.

MR POTGIETER: Now in 1986 when the shooting incident happened, what were you doing? Were you schooling, were you working, what were you doing then?

MR MOTHUSI: I wasn't schooling, I left school in 1985.

MR POTGIETER: So that was the first, your first year out of school, 1986, when this incident happened?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, that was my first year after school.

MR POTGIETER: What was the situation like in Kanana, around this time, we talk of about May of 1986?

MR MOTHUSI: The situation was not normal. The comrades were burning tyres in the streets, the police were shooting people. Some were injured and some died. 

MR POTGIETER: Now would you like to tell us what happened on the occasion when you yourself was shot and injured?

MR MOTHUSI: It was in 1986, I missed the month, but I remember the day, it was on the 4th of March, when four boys died. The four boys that the previous speaker referred to.

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My mother sent me to the café at the bar and I went to this café and I bought everything I was supposed to buy. I got out of the café. I got out of the gate and I crossed the street. As I was walking towards the direction where the clinic was, a Hippo approached. 

&#9;I couldn't count the policemen on top of the Hippo and they drove to another direction, and they just started shooting with their tear-gas. This crowd was standing at a taxi rank. They shot three times. Because of the tear-gas people started taking different directions. 

&#9;There was another policeman who was putting a helmet on his head and he wanted to shoot at us. I turned, I ran towards the first house, but before I could hid myself with the wall I was already shot.

&#9;I fell ...

MR POTGIETER: Take your time, Mr Mothusi. 

MR MOTHUSI: I fell and after falling, some girls and boys came to pick me up and they took me home. But before we could reach home we went to this other woman who was a street committee member. They told her that I was shot on the left side of my body. She asked them who shot at me. At that time I was unconscious and I was taken home and at home they asked who shot at me. I said no, I don't know, but I saw the policeman on the Hippo and they were shooting randonly at people. 

&#9;This street committee member said it would be better to be taken to the hospital because my body was full of bird shot. They tried to organise transport to take me to the hospital. Before we could get out of the township, just at the circle, we met a group of people and they said please, do not leave, the police are waiting for you at the

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roadside, they want to take you to Stilfontein. The driver understood them and he said let us take this person home. 

&#9;My mother was shocked, and she said to me Sello, you have been shot and we thought you had been taken to the hospital, now why do you come back. This woman tried to take out the pellets that were on my left-hand side of the body. She took them out and she applied an ointment and she gave me tablets and I went home to sleep.

&#9;That was the end of it all.

MR POTGIETER: Now at the time when this incident happened, were you politically active, were you involved in politics?

MR MOTHUSI: No, I wasn't involved in politics.

MR POTGIETER: And if I understand you correctly, you are saying that this happened on the same day as the day on which the four persons got shot and killed, that we heard about earlier?

MR MOTHUSI: That is on the same day, that is correct. I just happpened to forget the month, but it was on the fourth.

MR POTGIETER: We know now from the earlier testimonies that it was the 4th of March in 1986 actually, when all that happened. 

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, that is the correct date.

MR POTGIETER: At about what time were you shot?

MR MOTHUSI: It was between one and two o'clock.

MR POTGIETER: In the afternoon?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, in the afternoon.

MR POTGIETER: And the people who were shooting, the police who were shooting, did you know them?

MR MOTHUSI: No, they were far. I was far away from him and they had helmets on their heads, I couldn't see them.

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&#9;5&#9;S P MOTHUSI

MR POTGIETER: And when you were shot, you were not involved in anything unlawful. You were telling us you were on your way to go and buy something, you were sent to the shop to buy something. Is that correct? You were not engaged in any unlawful activities.

MR MOTHUSI: No, I did nothing wrong.

MR POTGIETER: Were all the injuries on the left-hand side of your body as you have indicated?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, it is on the left side.

MR POTGIETER: You were shot with bird shot, the small holes?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes.

MR POTGIETER: Now apart from the pointment that you were given and the fact that the one lady removed some of the pellets from your body, did you receive any other medical treatment or any medical treatment in fact, at all?

MR MOTHUSI: No, after this woman removed the pellets, a few days thereafter I was healed. I was just healed until this year.

MR POTGIETER: Now you were saying that you were unconscious after being shot. You said, in fact, you fell to the ground and you were unconscious. Is that correct?

MR MOTHUSI: That's correct.

MR POTGIETER: So must we understand that the injuries were fairly serious? Or why did you lose consciousness?

MR MOTHUSI: When I went to the doctor this year, I can't remember the date, but I have the reference number here, the doctor examined me at Klerksdorp Hospital, Dr Jaroska, and I went to consult him because of the terrible headache, and the veins and I realised I was now using just one side of my body to sleep. It was ten years and this was now out of my 

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mind. I forgot that I was shot with the bird shot, and I went to see him. I was just drinking tablets, I was drinking Disprin. Then I was told if you drink Disprin for two consecutive weeks you must go to the doctor. On the 3rd of the 5th month I went to this doctor. Before I could see him I met the sisters in charge and I told them that I have a problem with my veins, and I only use one side of my body to sleep. The sister said to me Sello, we are going to take you to the radiographers so that they can look at your head. But before they could take me to the radiographers, the doctor said, examined me and I was taken to the radiographers and the X-rays were conducted. When he came out with the X-ray reports, he said Sello, he said you must know you have bird shots in the head. And I asked him how did they get to my head. He asked me is there anything that happened to you in the past years. That is when I remembered that the police shot me. I told him that I was shot and he asked me which part of the body was I shot at. I told him it was the left side of the body. He said undress, I want to see you. I undressed and he said no, you have six bird shots in your head and they are the source of this problem. I asked the doctor can't you remove them because they are troubling me. He said no, it is very illegal to take out those bird shots. He said he will help me with the treatment. I said to him okay, that is fine with me. He said to me if it happens that I am not around and you get pains and you go to a doctor and the doctor wants to remove those pellets, please do not agree, that particular doctor must first consult with me. He gave me a medical certificate to go and get the medication. They gave me the tablets. I drank them and thereafter I went back

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home.

MR POTGIETER: Is it now for the first time after having been shot that you actually consulted a doctor and that you are now getting some treatment for the pellets in your body?

MR MOTHUSI: I still undergo treatment for these pellets. I am going to the same doctor, Dr Jaroska.

MR POTGIETER: And do I understand you correctly, it was as a result of the fact that the police were actually waiting for people who are taken to the hospital for treatment, because the police were waiting on the road for those people, that you had to turn around and that you didn't get medical treatment on the day that you were shot?

MR MOTHUSI: That's correct.

MR POTGIETER: One assumes that you must have been in quite a lot of pain?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, I was in a lot of pain. Even today I will sleep with one side of the body. And when the weather is cloudy I get a problem with my veins and I have to rush to Dr Jarosky.

MR POTGIETER: Now are there any people who saw what happened, any witnesses who saw you being shot?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, the people in that house saw me and they called a group of young boys and girls to pick me up to take me home. 

MR POTGIETER: Do you know the people in the house where you were trying to get into, who saw?

MR MOTHUSI: I do not know the occupants of that house, because it was not a well-built house, it was just a shack.

MR POTGIETER: Was there any court case as a result of the shooting incident?

MR MOTHUSI: After I was told by the doctor that I have bird KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;8&#9;S P MOTHUSI

shots in my head I went to Kanana offices. There were legal attorneys called para-legal Whites. I went to see them for help. There was a certain Mrs M M Sewo, who advised me about the procedure of laying charges. She said to me it is very important for you to lay charges, because you have been to the doctor. 

&#9;I went back to the doctor, I told him doctor, I want to lay charges, what should I do then. He said to me I should go to the police station to get a G88 form and fill it in and they will give me the case number. I went to the police station for that form. A White lady at the police station gave me that form and I went back to the doctor. It wasn't on the same day. I had financial problems to go to all these places. 

&#9;On a different day I went to Dr Jaroska and he was not in the office and nobody was present to help me fill in the form. One doctor said to me you want to lay charges, where are you injured. I showed him, and he said go to a district surgeon, go to the hospital, you will find one there. I took this form of mine and I went to the district surgeon and he didn't do anything. He just looked at me. He wrote in this form. When I looked at this form I couldn't read his handwriting. Even his name was not clearly written. 

&#9;I went back with this form. I took it to Mrs Sewo. I said Mrs Sewo, here is the form. She said to me that's fine, go back to the police station then, lay charges. I went straight to the police station to lay charges. It was on a Friday and on the 3rd of the 5th month. The policeman called Otto Mazibuko was on duty and I told him. I even took the X-ray reports and everything. I took them with to the police station and I told them I was shot by the KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;9&#9;S P MOTHUSI

police in 1986, I am here to lay charges today. this Otto Mazibuko said to me this is a difficult matter to handle, we cannot accept this. He said you should come and meet the adjudant, tell him that you want to lay charges. It was a Friday, and on Saturday I didn't go that day. I didn't know that they were working on Saturday. The weekend went by. &#9;On Monday I went to see this adjudant Locke and he was present. I showed him the forms and I showed him the X-rays. I told him that I was shot by the police in 1986, and I want to open a case with this matter. He didn't want to have a look at the forms. He called one of the policemen, by the name of Sgt Nkulo Njecke. He said he should take my statement and he should help me. I left with this Sgt Nkulo Njecke and he took my statement. He gave me a case number. He said my case number was MR4060596. The Tuesday went by. &#9;On Wednesday the detectives came to my home. They were Sgt Merry and another detective, I do not know the name. They had this docket with them and they were questioning me. They said to me why didn't you die if you were shot in the head. I said to them sergeant, I was shot, listen at what the doctor is saying, I have proof, I have the X-ray reports and the sergeant said no, I don't want to see them. The sergeant asked me as to where the doctor was situated. I said the doctor was at Klerksdorp Hospital. And that was it. 

&#9;Until today Mrs Sewo advised me about the Commission. she said to me Sello, the Commission is coming to our area, we will have to submit our statement and then the Commission will give you a date to appear. I went to her and she took my statement. I am really sorry because I didn't bring the X-ray forms with me. But the police have the form in their

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dockets. If I go to the police station, Sgt Merry is not at the office. The documents, everything regarding my health is in that document. That was the last day of my initiative.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you. Was it on the 3rd of May, this year that you went to see the police?

MR MOTHUSI: I can say it was on the 3rd of May.

MR POTGIETER: This year?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, this same year.

MR POTGIETER: And the treatment that you are getting, the medical treatment, is that from the hospital here in Klerksdorp?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, it is at the hospital.

MR POTGIETER: Thank you. I will just hear if my colleagues have any questions for you.

PROF MEIRING: Mr Mothusi, a question I would like to ask, is you say that on that day when you were shot, your friends and colleagues took you to the home of a committee member and there you were treated by somebody. Is that correct?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, that's correct.

PROF MEIRING: Do you remember the name of the committee member?

MR MOTHUSI: It is Mrs Jane Manzani.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you. And then a question about your current health. You said that you are unemployed. Is it impossible for you to work or would you like to work if only you can find work?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, I would appreciate to work, but I don't work like any normal human being. At times when you work you have to be fast, but I cannot lift up heavy objects. My body is painful at all times. Sometimes they would call the person in charge, the supervisor and the supervisor will be 

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shouting at me.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you. We will make a note of that. My last question is, when you left school, what standard did you complete? 

MR MOTHUSI: I can't remember very well, but I left school in Std 2.

PROF MEIRING: Std 2. Thank you very much.

DR RANDERA: Sello, I just want to clarify what was happening that day. In asking these questions, I don't want to take away the fact that you were shot. You said in yor statement that you had gone to go and buy something, and that there was an open area, that there were some comrades standing there and then the Hippos drove past and started shooting at random. First of all, was there anybody else injured on that day besides yourself, in that shooting incident? Were any of the other comrades injured?

MR MOTHUSI: I was injured and thereafter other comrades were injured late in the evening.

DR RANDERA: About, in that one incident, I am not talking about later in the evening, were you the only person injured?

MR MOTHUSI: Yes, I was the only one injured.

DR RANDERA: Now you have also said and many other people have said, at that time there was a lot of tension in Kanana. 

(END TAPE - SIDE A).

&#9;... going on, by the comrades against, at the Hippos?

MR MOTHUSI: No, they were not stoning the Hippos, they were caucusing at their taxi rank. And that is when the police arrived and they started shooting and the group dispersed.

DR RANDERA: But you knew this group as comrades? How do 

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you know they were comrades?

MR MOTHUSI: They were wearing UDF T-shirts, yellow in colour, written "Release Mandela Campaign".

DR RANDERA: So again my question, I just want to, so that we can be clear on it, you are saying there was nothing that was taking place against the police. People were not throwing stones, people were not burning houses, people were not burning cars and the police just drove past in their Hippo and started shooting at people?

MR MOTHUSI: It doesn't mean there was no stone-throwing. People were just burning tyres and the police were called in to come and resolve the situation.

DR RANDERA: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Mothusi, thank you for coming. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. One can see that it is still a very painful memory for you to talk about, and we appreciate the fact that you were prepared to come and tell your story in public. It is not very easy, in fact it can be quite intimidating. Especially if you must speak about things that touch your emotions. But we appreciate that you have come. 

&#9;We have heard a lot about this particular day in Kanana, the shooting, the injuries, the loss of life, that happened. We have noted what you have said about your medical condition. The fact that you have a limited working capacity, it seems, diminished working capacity at this stage. We have noted what you have said about laying a charge with the police and not having heard anything further about that. We have noted that you have been in touch with Mrs Sewo, from the para-legal services and we shall see what can be gleaned from the information at her disposal or at 

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their disposal, to see to what extent we can be of assistance to you. But once again, thank you for coming.

MR MOTHUSI: I thank you too, Sir.

 

 

 

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