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TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
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TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

 

DAY 2 - TUESDAY 13 AUGUST 1996

 

 

CASE NO:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;CT/00582

VICTIM:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI

 

NATURE OF VIOLENCE:&#9;DETENTION

 

TESTIMONY BY:&#9;&#9;NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI

 

MS BURTON:

Ms Qayi can you hear me?

MS QAYI:

 

[indistinct] 

MS BURTON:

[indistinct] you be convertible, good thank you. Would you stand to take the oath, please?

 

NONIGHT ANNIE QAYI&#9;&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states

 

MS BURTON:

Chairperson - my colleague - Ms Joyce Seroke will facilitate the witness.

MS SEROKE:

Good morning Ms Night, is this name you got from your marriage?

MS QAYI:

Yes, it is.

MS SEROKE:

Before you can explain to us what happened to you in 1985, could you briefly tell us about your family and how many children you have and what you are doing as a person?

MS QAYI:

I have eight children but they are quite old because some of them are married. Those I live with - there are only two of them and they are boys. One is of school going age attending school in Cape Town - another one is here with me attending school.

MS BURTON:

How old are they?

MS QAYI:

The one in Cape Town is 25 years old and the one I live with is 21 years old.

MS SEROKE:

You mean even the one who is 25 years old is still attending school?

MS QAYI:

Yes, he is in a university in Bellville, all right.

MS SEROKE:

Now, explain Nonight what happened to you in 1985.

MS QAYI:

This is what happened to me, policemen used to be after me because of certain things they do and things that I was against until the time when there was this State of Emergency when people were being arrested. But during all this period they were keeping a - a watch on me saying that I was to talkative so when it was this time they got hold of me because they had always been after me.

On the particular day - in the morning - the policemen came in hippos - they drove into our location - they arrested a lot of people and I was the last to be arrested only because I came out of a house - neighbors house - and Alfred came to me together with Tichtick - Tichtick from Middelburg and Alfred from Richmond - they pulled me and said we want you - they pulled me and they said they wanted to ask me something. Then I said to them why don’t you ask that now, here. Then they said no we want to go down with you, so I went with them. There were also police van there, they threw me into the back of a van and they said I would hear everything when we get down there.

There is a place called the Freedom Square - that’s where they took us and when we got there, there were a lot of people and they instructed that we should sit down and we did. They went away to bring more people and they came back and when they left us we were surrounded by other people from the farms and were not even allowed to say any thing. 

They would - if they see us talking they would ask what we’re saying. I would say no we must talk because our mouths are not closed. Whiles there the hippo came and they took us into the hippo and because there was no man - no husband at home, I was the only one, so everything would be directed to me and I had to stand firm like a mother. So when they said I should get into the van I refused because I said to them I did not know where they were taking me to. 

Then there this [indistinct] given from the farm and he pushed me with the big riffle because I did not want to get into the van and I could feel my leg feeling numb and then the others asked me to get into -not to resist. When we got down there at the police station, they asked us to get off and we got off. As we’re getting off the van Jonks said to me - who was the head of the police, pointed at me and said: Here is this Annie who is very troublesome.

And he held me here on, pulling me on the chest, then I even said if you were to stop your nonsense to then there wouldn’t be any problem. I’m also tired with your problems to and I said to him if I were to say the same thing to you, you were going to arrest you. 

Then they said yes we’ve got you. So they took me and they locked me in and I was in a cell when another women came to join me by the name of Maria Chalase - he was also put - she was also put into the cell. We were there for some time, then Jane Godula came who is also a female - so there were three females in that cell. Whiles we were there until late in the day - at about eight we were released. 

We were taken out and we were put forward - they were ill treating us - they were pushing us and they pushed us where they there going to take photo’s of us. They were turning us, taking photo’s of our size - the front. After that - it was at about 9 o’clock - they again put us into this big thing and they took us to a jail up there and when we got there we were locked in and we went to sleep. The following morning it was quite late - at about fife - again this big thing came back and we were again taken out and we were asked to get - to get into the back of it. I had a question that where were they taking us to, then they would say you must keep quiet - that is why I’m here. My - I was hurt because I was not even a member of the committee, I was just an ordinary member of the location. 

Then they asked us to get onto the van - there were three women - then men were coming out the other side whiles we were coming out the other side and when I observed I saw my son amongst he men. It means after me they went to fetch my son, there were many of these children - he was not the only one. And they had been beaten up even my own child had been beaten, so we got into this van. They did not tell us where they were taking us to, they just drove out of town and we could see that they were taking us to Middelburg. 

And when we got there, they asked us [indistinct] - we asked the children why they had been beaten, they said it’s because of their T shirts. Then I asked Mile to take his T shirt of and another one and then we threw them out threw the window so that when we get there they - the T-shirts should not be there. So we came to Middelburg and we [indistinct] from the van - some went the other way and we also as woman went the other way - a different direction. And we were asked to undress because they were trying to search and look for something then we asked what were they looking for. Then they said they were trying to get to whether we didn’t have bombs with us.

They gave us a - their prison uniform and sent us into cells where they asked us to sit there and wait for some people who were coming and these people came. They were from Graaff-Reinet, from Middelburg - they locked us up. What was most hurtful was that where they had hit me - since that time I still feel pain from that injury. I was there for three months and what hurt me most is that we were starved a lot. There was a matron there, they would give us some pills and this matron would say I was going to die in jail and I would say by God’s blessing I’m not going to die. Not that I don’t say I was not going to die but I was not going to die in jail. Then he would say there you are you starting to talk with your sharp tong and then the others would ask me to keep quiet and I would stop. 

They would serve us with porridge - just one spoon of porridge - and this was very bad. And when we were - when we’re released our clothes were very big in size. There was no reason for this, when I asked them why we were there in prison why were we not appearing before a Magistrate they would say there you are you’re beginning once more - you talk to much. We were there, we never made any appearance before a Magistrate - they were [indistinct] us. 

They did not beat us at the time we were there. We were starved until the time came for them to release us, then we went out and it was found that my son had to go back to school and I did not know that he had been injured and when he got home I was - when we - he got to school I was called there because he was very sick and when I got to school I found that he was very sick and I had to take him to Groote Schuur Hospital. 

And that is where he was operated on and they said he had some fluid in his lounges so he underwent that operation and after which, by God’s grace, he felt better. And then they’d asked what had happened there and then he said he had been beaten by the police. That time I went back to Middelburg leaving my children all by themselves with no one to took after them but I said God is there and truly I will never change from my truth because even when Jonk was doing all these things, was - when he was saying here is this problem - some women were tied off because she talks to much. I said the best thing is that you should shoot me so that you get satisfaction.

Even when - no that they say we should forgive each other but when I’m now briefing - summarizing our - I don’t see that there is this forgiveness because only Thursday they were there at my place and they started shooting and shot a child. So what I’m saying is that forgiveness is very difficult in this particular situation. I now end my story and thank you.

MS SEROKE:

Thank you Ms Annie, with your story that is very painful. Now you say when you replied you say you were a member of the location - not a member of the Committee, what member - what political organisation were you a member of.

MS QAYI:

I was a member of the ANC.

MS SEROKE:

And you again say they were - you were after you because of certain things that you were doing because you were - you disliked what they were doing. What were these things that you did not like and tell us how were you showing to them that you disliked all these things? 

 

MS QAYI:

What they were doing was they were making the life’s of the children very difficult even old people. When they would come into the location they would come in a very funny, unacceptable way. They would brake peoples belongings, they would kick doors and after kicking the doors I would ask them not to do this saying that we were not convicts because when ever they would come into the location they would be intending to beat up children.

Then I would say we are not animals, it you come to our location you making us wild because they would be bringing sjamboks with them together with riffles and tear gas and this would make us unhappy. These are the things that made them to be after me.

MS SEROKE:

Because of these things you say that is why they arrested you?

MS QAYI:

Yes, there’s no other reason. 

MS SEROKE:

Were you surprised when you saw your son, Songezile arrested when you had actually left her behind?

MS QAYI:

Yes

MS SEROKE:

Now you say they had taken him because he had a T shirt on. What was written on this T-shirt that could have annoyed these people?

 

MS QAYI:

It was written ANC.

MS SEROKE:

Was it just written ANC, no other words were showing on this - on this T shirt?

MS QAYI:

No

MS SEROKE:

Now you say at the time you were in Middelburg in the cells there for about three months. They ill treated you as if you were terrorist, could you exactly explain how you were ill treated, what were they actually doing besides this starvation that you made mention of earlier?

MS QAYI:

We would go out there on very chilly days now - no one sympathized with us. Then we would go out, they would make our place very wet and ask us to stand there in that cold and in the cells there was no hot water for us to use when we were washing. That is how things were until the end.

MS SEROKE:

Then you again say when you arrived here they searched you, how were they doing it? Were the searches males or females?

MS QAYI:

They were females.

MS SEROKE:

What were they actually doing?

 

 

MS QAYI:

They asked us to undress and take off all the clothes and just stand stark naked. They would even search there in our hidden places and I would ask them what they were actually looking for, then they would say they were looking for bombs. 

MS SEROKE:

According to you, do you think you could have - you could have hidden your - the bombs and weapons in those hidden places?

MS QAYI:

No, that is why I asked them because in the hidden places I don’t think I could put in anything.

MS SEROKE:

Now you say this - this starvation for three months they were only feeding you on porridge morning, midday, evening?

MS QAYI:

Yes, they used to serve us porridge and just one thin slice of bread. And you had to eat that porridge at 3 o’clock and there after you would have to go back to the cell. And your next serving of the porridge would be the following day.

MS SEROKE:

Your son - when you took him back to school - what school was that?

MS QAYI:

He was first attending school here in Beaufort West and then he went to a school in Cape Town after he had passed standard ten.

MS SEROKE:

Is that where you discovered that he was not well after the [indistinct] to undergo an operation?

MS QAYI:

Yes

MS SEROKE:

Was he one of those who are still - is he still attending school?

MS QAYI:

Yes

MS SEROKE:

Is he the one who is at the university?

MS QAYI:

Yes

MS SEROKE:

Mamma, I now - I hear you saying that a reconciliation you understand quite well even within you because this ill treatment still - and torturing - it still continues, now could you explain how it’s going on and who is doing it.

MS QAYI:

It is the policemen, because even this very Thursday they were there and they shot a child. So it is now obvious that they are now trying to dig out these wounds that are healing.

MS SEROKE:

Now you again said that you were the head of the family at home, is your husband still alive?

MS QAYI:

No, he died.

MS SEROKE:

When did he die?

MS QAYI:

I - no I can’t remember but it was round about 1985. He was not there - when this happened he was not there, yes.

MS SEROKE:

Now all this strain of sending your children to school, where do you get all this when you’re actually a widow, do you work or do you get pension?

MS QAYI:

I used to work but because I could not continue the doctor asked me to stop and he made it possible for me to get a pension and I used to take [indistinct] salary and help here in the home but there are now my other children who help me.

MS SEROKE:

We thank you Ms Annie, maybe my colleges have questions to pose to you.

ADV POTGIETER:

Thank you Chairperson, Ms Qayi this was in 1985 - it’s 11 years ago - now the two children that you spoke about that are still living with you in a way - the one is 25 now and the other one is 23 it I heard you correctly - so - 21 I’m sorry, 21 - so the one would have been 11/10 - 10 years old and the other one about 14 when you were detained is that correct?

 

MS QAYI:

Yes, it is like that.

ADV POTGIETER:

The others were they slightly older than that - the other children?

MS QAYI:

Yes

ADV POTGIETER:

So they all were at home still in that time in 1985 when you were detained?

MS QAYI:

Only one was living us at home, there were two - there were two girls that I left at home.

ADV POTGIETER:

And they basically had to tend for themselves - they were left alone. Your husband was deceased at that stage already?

MS QAYI:

Yes, my husband was dead then.

ADV POTGIETER:

And you were just locked up, taken away from three months with no real reason given to you when you wanted to ask, when you inquired they said to you, you talk to much, and your starting with your - you starting with trouble again. Is - was that in fact the response that you got?

MS QAYI:

Yes, it’s like that.

 

ADV POTGIETER:

How did that make you feel?

MS QAYI:

I feel better but now that they have started, as I mentioned earlier, then I recall all those things that happened to me in the passed. But now I can’t say it is the same as before because now I’m a member of an organisation which is the women’s league. That time I was not a member.

ADV POTGIETER:

Your the second person that referred to this shooting incident - this very recent shooting incident. Do you - do you want to give us just a little bit more detail, I - I heard that somebody - a child was shot but can you give us a little bit more detail of what happened?

MS QAYI:

I cannot give full explanation because it was at night and we were sleeping and we just heard of this in the morning that the policemen had come and even in the morning they came and we did not know what they were looking for and that was the time they had already shot this child. 

ADV POTGIETER:

And [indistinct] that has caused some tension where you live - people are not happy with this incident. 

MS QAYI:

Yes, we are not satisfied because there was no reason - it was uncalled for. They would understand if there was a reason for it because for everything there has got to be a cause.

ADV POTGIETER:

The police that are there now, is it the same police that were there in 1985?

MS QAYI:

There are new policemen but those who were there in 1985 are still there.

ADV POTGIETER:

And nothing - nothing has happened to them at all - in spite of all this to you, the assaults that they - that were perpetrated on you and other people, even your son?

MS QAYI:

Nothing was done.

ADV POTGIETER:

[indistinct] does Songezile when he was detained with you?

MS QAYI:

I wouldn’t know because he is now 25 years old. 

ADV POTGIETER:

[indistinct] in 1985 - 11 years ago - so he is still very young.

MS QAYI:

Yes

ADV POTGIETER:

Was he still at school?

MS QAYI:

Yes, he was still at school.

ADV POTGIETER:

[indistinct] because of a T-shirt?

MS QAYI:

I wouldn’t say that was the only reason but because we’re in fear we just felt that before we get to Middelburg, we should throw these T shirt away in case they were going to make thing worse.

ADV POTGIETER:

Ms Qayi just one comment - Ms Qayi when I - before I finish off. You said that when you talked about your detention you said that you were just an ordinary resident - you’re not even involved in the - in the counsel - the committee but it’s quite clear to me listening to you - looking at you that you are clearly a remarkable person. 

You’ve got a child at university - you went threw this experience and in spite of the must of been very intimidating circumstances where you were detained you still spoke out. You clearly quite [indistinct] and quite brave and I would certainly not look at you as a - as a ordinary resident but thank you very much.

MS QAYI:

I also thank you. 

MS BURTON:

Ms Qayi, I would also like to ask you just one or two more things. Firstly you mentioned the names of some of the people who has arrested you, I think. You mentioned Alfred from Richmond, is that right and - and another name of somebody from Murraysburg, I think you said.

MS QAYI:

Middelburg

MS BURTON:

From Middelburg, who was that?

MS QAYI:

Now the name is just flashing.

MS BURTON:

[indistinct] 

MS QAYI:

Yes, it was Ticktick.

MS BURTON:

And he was from Middelburg?

MS QAYI:

Yes, he was from Middelburg, there was also Archie Dalihjong.

MS BURTON:

[indistinct] would also like to ask you it you can remember the date when - when you were detained?

MS QAYI:

I cannot recall.

MS BURTON:

The reason that I ask you is because in your original statement to us you said 1985 but our investigators have followed up the records and they say - they tell us that it was in 1986, so we can check that and get all the facts correctly. 

 

 

 

MS QAYI:

I can’t say that because we are not educated so some other times we don’t make a difference between the years because we are old. It may happen that it was in 1986 from 1985.

MS BURTON:

That’s fine, you don’t need to worry about it, I’m just confirming to you that we have checked it up. I also want to say like my college, Adv Potgieter, that you are obviously a very strong women and where a leader in your community. I’m glad that you have a strong faith to keep you going threw everything that you have experienced. 

And I hope that they - the tensions that are present in your neighborhood at the moment will soon be properly dealt with so that you can be more satisfied. And so that you can begin the process of forgiving and reconciling in the future. This is only the beginning of that time, we thank you very much for coming to tell us today about what happened to you, thank you.

MS QAYI:

Thank you ma’am. 

