&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;13 JUNE 1997&#9;&#9;

NAME:&#9;GALELEKILE NGAKI 

CASE:&#9;&#9;EC0415/96CCK&#9;-&#9;MDANTSANE

DAY:&#9;&#9;5

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ngaki. 

GALELEKILE NGAKI: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. You are going to testify under oath. I will hand over to Mr Sandi to lead you with questions. 

ADV SANDI: Mr Ngaki, when I was talking to you yesterday afternoon I became scared that you will take a lot of time when you are giving your testimony and I thought that you are going to talk about things that are not in your statement, but I would like to say that maybe you will be, you will help the TRC as you were a member of Ciskei Police Force, but let us concentrate on your statement. Your complaint is that at the time you were a Community Relations Officer. You were the one responsible for statements and press releases. You were tortured. Is that correct Mr Ngaki?

MR NGAKI: Yes, that is correct.

ADV SANDI: Let me hand over to you to tell us exactly what happened when you were a Community Relations Officer.

MR NGAKI: I received training in 1983. I was trained in East London. When it was found I had Black Public Relations Officer I had to be trained. At that time it was a time of the bus boycott. I was still young. I was supposed to, I was the one responsible for this. Since I joined the police I was just a uniformed police. I never worked for the Special Branch. I was under the Police Commissioner. I would get information from different stations and give them to the press. When something would happen in the different stations on the following day we had to report to the Commissioner and the press would come so that I can say something to them. My duty was to take these different reports and give them to the press. If I found a story of both sides I would go to the Commissioner and to the press.

&#9;This was a very difficult job, because I had no right to take a decision or to give my own perspective. Even if it was not the truth I had no right to change it, but I was told what to tell the press. I had no right to change it. Even if the police were lying or they were telling the truth I was supposed to give the information as they gave it to me.

ADV SANDI: Mr Ngaki, do you have any examples of what happened? 

MR NGAKI: One I remember is the death of Mr Mtonga. As we were in the uniformed department we were not aware of what was happening. On the day before this incident I read this from a newspaper, from the Daily Dispatch, from the Daily Dispatch editor. He wanted me to make a comment that Entamaga area, a body was found lying there in the bushes. This person was shot. Fortunately I knew this man. He was from Tamara. He would say that he wondered whether the police were involved in this incident. I told him that I was going to investigate. I had to call Tamara Police Station to confirm whether there was a person who was found in the bushes. They confirmed this and they said that he was taken to the mortuary. They suspect a robbery. 

&#9;There were rumours around about what really happened, but I reported to the Commissioner that there is a man found at Tamara. He was taken to the police. I then told the Commissioner that there are other rumours that this person was from Mdantsane. Nobody knew him. He would report to other Commissioners and he would call me telling me what to report to the press. At this time it was said that in Mdantsane there was one man who was shot. This matter became clear after a while. I reported to the press that the person was found, a body was found near Tamara and the press came back to me asking me about the rumours that this person was from Mdantsane. I could not comment, because I was trained not to comment on such things. I was not in a position to comment or I had to be, I had to avoid the press. I did not confirm this at all, how this person died, but there were rumours that this person was from Mdantsane. He was being investigated by the Special Branch Police. I cannot say I have done nothing, because I have given out a report. 

ADV SANDI: At the time of Green Berets were you a Community Relations Officer?

MR NGAKI: It was in 1977 at that time. It was before I was a Community Relations Officer. I was just an ordinary police. It was the time of Imbokhoto and Konto. I was working for the South African Police as the assistant of the late Ngalo who was a lieutenant. At that time there were many people who were injured in 1977. They would be assaulted by the Green Berets, but at that time I was SAP Police and this affected us, because we were responsible for taking statements. We would meet people robbed at night, some of them were injured, but those cases did not continue, because these people were taken as if they were fighting against the system. 

ADV SANDI: You were then arrested. When was this?

MR NGAKI: It was in 1986. Because I am a person who is critical I do not like to see something bad happening. If I would say out something, these would be recorded in a file. In 1986 a son of late Sebe was abducted in Transkei. I had to report this to the press. After that one lady who was a Government mouthpiece phoned me in the office saying that Mr Kwane was well known. He was a graduate, but Mr Mkanya, who was arrested with him, is not known. He was just a policeman. He asked me whether I knew, she asked me whether I knew anything about his CV. I said I had access to the files. I can go and check the files. He was also a part-time student. 

&#9;I looked at his file. He joined the police. He was busy also on his studies. It was in October at the time when exams, examinations were to be written. They were trying to get bailed out in Umtata. I thought that in their application of bail these people would get bail, because they are, they were part-time students. They were to write examinations at that time. There was an investigation team which was led by the late Mr Zibi. Apparently they did not like my article. I was at work. The Commissioner called me saying that there was an evaluation. Coincidentally, on that particular day, there were police selected to be trained at Wesley to be para-military policemen. 

&#9;On that day that article was in the Daily Dispatch. This was published in other newspapers as well, but I was still in the office. I received a telephone call from the President. When I got there I found his Director-General and another magistrate. They told me that they were sent by the President to call me. They were trying to find out what was behind my mind when I released the article about the Ngwana incident. I said that I thought this will help them in their bail application. They seemed to understand my motives. 

ADV SANDI: Mr Ngaki, you were then arrested concerning this matter?

MR NGAKI: Yes, on the same day.

ADV SANDI: Let us now look on that issue.

MR NGAKI: When I went back to the office the team working in the rent office at Zwelitsha called me to those offices. I went to that office. They asked me about this issue again and I told them what had happened. They told me to wait in another office. I stayed there alone. At sunset I was still in this office, I was reading a newspaper. I saw men coming in and a light was switched off. They told me to undress. They said that they were looking for me, they found me that day. I then took off my clothes. I only wear an underwear. They told me to lie on my back. They were on top of me saying that we have found you today. All of these people were non-commissioned officers. There was also a Warrant Officer. They assaulted me as I was lying on my back. There was a tube which I did not see. When I went in I just saw a bottle in the window cill. Some of them were holding my hands and some my legs. One of them took this car tube. They covered my face. 

ADV SANDI: At this time of this, as you have already explained, Mr Ngaki, why, what were they saying to you?

MR NGAKI: They said that I was working together with the Transkei people and I was an informer working for the press. I could not breathe at that time and they said that I was going to tell them the truth.

ADV SANDI: For how long this, for how long did this torture last?

MR NGAKI: At about two a.m. I heard a knock at the door and this person kicked the door. The door opened. This person said it was enough, instead of torturing him, let us detain him. It was Mr Ghela. He is now a Commissioner. I was together with a Priest. They said that it was enough. I trained him. That is when they stopped. They put on my clothes. They took me Zwelitsha Police Station and they detained me at Middledrift Central Prison.

ADV SANDI: Were you detained without trial?

MR NGAKI: Yes, I was put into solitary confinement.

ADV SANDI: Did you appear in court? Were you charged of anything?

MR NGAKI: No, I did not. I never appeared in court, but on the following day at 12 midday I heard people come, running, coming running. They opened the door, took me to the office. I found two security guys. They took me to Zwelitsha with their car and Zibi said that they were releasing me. If I was going to say any, something they will detain me again.

ADV SANDI: For how long did you stay at Middledrift?

MR NGAKI: It was overnight. 

ADV SANDI: Did you take any step or did you go to an attorney?

MR NGAKI: I, well I was not aware that I was injured. I was not aware that there were blood stains in my eyes. I did not take any steps to go to any attorney, because at that time it was very difficult. My family advised me not to do that, because these people are going to harass me. 

ADV SANDI: Did you go to a psychologist by the name of Solomon?

MR NGAKI: In 1990 when Mr Gqozo took over I went to Mrs Solomon, because I could see that this has affected me. In 1989, because in 1989 I collapsed. As this happened on the seventh of October 1986 and seventh of October 1989, I collapsed. I was taken to the hospital. I had high blood pressure and other illnesses. I went to a clinical psychologist, Mrs Solomon. She advised me to take a two year break, maybe I will be healed through therapy. I then retired at, when I was 48 years old. 

ADV SANDI: In conclusion, Mr Ngaki, do you have any requests to the Commission?

MR NGAKI: As I have already said, I loved my job as a police and I was involved in community relations. I was the editor of Aba Kuseli police magazine. My aim was to eradicate brutality. I was trying to pass a message to the police to secure and protect people instead of harassing and torturing them, but unfortunately today I am not a police and the experience and the skills, especially of Black people, were not used. My request is that my state of health is not the same as before, but through prayers I am coping. I have a group of young men. I trained them and I encouraged them. I encouraged them to study further and I would like this to be looked at. I would like to be compensated.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Ngaki. I will hand over to the Chairperson. 

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngaki for your testimony. We thank you for appearing before the Commission. There are a lot of things interesting in your statement and I think you will be able to help the Commission, but we thank you for giving us light in that people were tortured when they were detained. I thank you for including this in your statement, because there are people who do not believe that such things happened to people. Thank you Mr Ngaki. If there are, if there is more information we will come back to you. For now, thank you.

MR NGAKI: I would like to add something. I would like to apologise to those who were hurt by things I said. 

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Ngaki.

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