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&#9;1&#9;E NDLOVU
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&#9;1&#9;E NDLOVU 

&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;23.07.1996&#9;NAME:&#9;ELLIOT NDLOVU

CASE:&#9;&#9;-&#9;&#9;SOWETO

DAY 2

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CHAIRPERSON: We will ask the next witness to take the stand. That is Mr Elliot Ndlovu. Mr Ndlovu, I will ask you to stand.

ELLIOT NDLOVU: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: I will ask Hugh Lewin to assist you in giving your testimony. 

MR LEWIN: Mr Ndlovu, thank you very much for joining us. As you know we are looking specifically in these two days at the events and perceptions of June 16 1976 and, yes, you have given us a very full statement. What we would like, if it is possible Sir, for you to tell us because you speak in two capacities. You speak as a parent. You also speak as a teacher. I think we would like to hear your accounts personally. Firstly your account as a father and secondly your feelings as a teacher of the events of that time. Please feel relaxed, you are amongst a lot of friends in what is essentially a very friendly place. Thanks very much.

INTERPRETER: The speakers mike is not on. 

MR NDLOVU: Two decades since June 16th event. The Soweto students went into the streets to fight, actually to register their discontent against an evil system whereby a very difficult subject had to be taught through the medium of Afrikaans. That resulted in the tragic consequences. On SOWETO HEARING&#9;GAUTENG PROVINCE

 

&#9;2&#9;E NDLOVU

this day I left for school unknowingly what was going to follow. We were just preparing for our last paper, mathematics when just across at Orlando West we saw a crowd of pupils trying to cross over to get to Diepkloof where they were going to have their meeting. There they were intercepted by the police and they tried to stop them from getting to this meeting and a shooting took place. 

&#9;When I came home in the late afternoon after buying what they use to call those days, the World, I realised that one of my sons had been killed. The following day one of my sons, the very son that was said was killed, appeared. Now I was shocked. Now the last of my sons did not report home and I started panicking. I went to Baragwaneth. I found my very son, the first son's name in the list that he had been killed, brought in and when he was taken to the ICU, he died. Now it is written Leslie Ndlovu, that is my first son. The boy who was missing was Hastings Ndlovu. Went to the mortuary where there were hundreds of bodies strewn all over the place. I have never seen such an incident before. On that day, that is the 17th I could not trace my son. 

&#9;I came back home. Tried again the Friday, again I failed. Collected the school principal, we went together with a neighbour. Right at the entrance my neighbour said here is this fellow. He was face down, I held him by the ear, turned him over and I said, oh thou fallen piece of earth. Those that have done this deed shall be very sorry. So I realised, yes, it was Hastings Ndlovu, my son, that had died. This had an effect, not only on the family, but in the community around me at Orlando West. Unknowingly, the worst was still to follow. My three girls left the country. Two of them then were at Fort Hare, one was at Ngoya ...

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They skipped the country with drastic consequences to their mother who fell ill and died. 

&#9;What happened thereafter was, as I said, drastic. I was now in close surveillance of the police, the SB who were very unkind to me. Picked me up from time to time. Sometimes I got dismally pained because Soweto had become a Russia at the time. Police feared getting into the location, but at midnight, the dead of night they would come in, pick you up and promise you all types of things, but nevertheless things went bad even in the schools. Discipline had gone down terribly. Some of the teachers and principals were suspected of being agents of the system and things as headmasters, we had a really trying time, but in as far as the students concerned, I think they scored victory because firstly what they fought for was achieved. In a few months time that instruction in Afrikaans was revoked immediately and boys were bubbling with victory. They had thought as achievers we have failed them in putting this Government out, but as I had said one time at John Vorster that by killing these children, really, I think one day we are going to achieve because these children no more, whenever that car which they call the yellow-yellow, mellow-yellow, they would really not fear to tell them where to get off. If you said to them, this people are going to shoot you, they would tell you, what about those that have died already. So, some of us felt and they helped, also, to consciousise the youth that the struggle was on. 

&#9;On the streets in Soweto you will find written down the street the blood, the tree of freedom is watered with blood. So even some of us that had lost, we felt we will let the students feel they are on the right track. Let them go on. 

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&#9;4&#9;E NDLOVU

We have suffered too long. I see there are some slight changes. I am not sure about the fact now, but at the time a school going child got something for capital. It was about R50.00 or R55.00 when the white child was on R600.00. I am not sure of the facts now, but I think that is being looked at addressed. 

&#9;Come to the social economic factors. The schools had many functions, the school was really functioning, but some of the things that were there at the time lost favour. That, I think, it is being redressed also. I learnt the other day that there was going to be a big music eistedford at Pietersburg. So some of the things are coming back correctly and, I think also, at the time when we struggled for increments, that could not be coming because we were told that, at one stage, Dr Verwoerd had pegged the budget on education. What I see now the teachers salaries are being looked into and it is a sign, but the greatest of all the victories, I think, the 1976 riots, student riot has been the major factor in getting this freedom, this new democracy. 

&#9;We have, at a place called Sophiatown, when there was trouble there, we used stones mostly although the students felt that we have never involved ourselves in the struggle, we did. If it was little, I think that little brought about the greatest victory of all, the democracy which we now enjoy. I think those are some of the things that the police, mostly the police seemed not to have been on our side, but on the side of the oppressor. I remember at John Vorster when one said, Jong, in Afrikaans because there were Afrikaner police nearby. He said, Jong, if you do not speak the truth, we will throw you out that window. I said 

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&#9;5&#9;E NDLOVU

this window, I am always in and out town. These things are also open. I think I will not go out alone out of that window, but I will go out with one of you. 

&#9;Really, I felt here now I am in the window, they can do anything with me here. So, laat ek ook glad nie hang, in their own language. So, I think those are some of the things that helped me. I said you threw poor Taxletimore out of this windows and you said the man was trying to escape. How can a man escape out here? So, although we have lost, but I think on the student's side, they did score victory. So, although we wept and cried. 

&#9;I remember when I failed on three occasions, four occasions to look for my son, I met wailing of woman who could not find their sons, students, pupils at that place. It was really heartbreaking and there were rumours around in Soweto here that people who live next to an avalon, had seen some helicopter dropping bodies and you could believe that because of what I had seen out at the mortuary. Hundreds of mothers could not get their children. I was almost one of those, but fortunately, on the fourth day I did discover my son through the help of a neighbour. We say, bravo to those kids. We hope the organisers of this June 16 should really carry on with this lest the future generations forget. I thank you. 

MR LEWIN: Thank you very much Sir. You used a quotation when you found your son. If I remember correctly the full quotation is, oh pardon me thou ...

MR NDLOVU: Befallen.

MR LEWIN: ... befallen piece of earth that I am meek and gentle with these butchers.

MR NDLOVU: Yes.

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&#9;6&#9;E NDLOVU

MR LEWIN: I think that your testimony has shown to us today the strength that actually lies behind a truly meek and gentle teacher as yourself and I would like to thank you very much for that testimony. Thank you, Sir. 

MR NDLOVU: Thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mr Ndlovu. I will start with you Piet. Have you got a question? Russell Ally.

DR ALLY: Mr Ndlouv, you said that you also had two daughters who left.

MR NDLOVU: Three.

DR ALLY: Three daughters apparently. What happened to them? You say they left the country.

MR NDLOVU: They joined the ANC. Two went to Zambia and one went to America. Did complete their courses in America and the two completed out at Zambia. They are back in the country fortunately.

DR ALLY: That is very encouraging to hear. As a school teacher I would just like to know what your reaction was to this instruction that students now had to be taught in the medium of Afrikaans.

MR NDLOVU: I have known one of the most disturbing things is to have pupils fearing a subject. You encourage pupils. The thought of how to teach mathematics and then people just spitefully, I say spitefully because I do not know how many meetings did we attend with one very, very stubborn white inspector who said that, you will do it. That is you will teach through the medium of Afrikaans, like it or not. It is a very difficult subject to pupils. Some of them fear it, but if you go down using new methods they get to like the subject.

DR ALLY: You also, in your statement, speak about one of 

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&#9;7&#9;E NDLOVU

the negative results of 1976. The breakdown of discipline, of culture, of learning. The MEC for education is with is, the engine is here. What, from your wealth of experience, how do you think some of this can actually be restored in our schools again?

MR NDLOVU: I think they are following the correct lines by having the parents involved. The parents, the teacher and the student also involved. That would very much make relationships better. I see a bit on that nowadays and I think that is going to pay dividends, but I think this will not succeed if people do not change their attitudes. You see attitude goes a long way. There are still people who feel that they still want to wield the power when we speak of Government, of actual unity, but they still want to wield this power as before. So I see there is a change of heart, not only from one section, but also from the other societies. Then I think you will succeed.

DR ALLY: Thank you very much Mr Ndlovu. I am sure I speak on behalf of the whole Commission when I say that we salute your courage and your wisdom. Thank you Sir.

MR NDLOVU: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Sooka.

MS SOOKA: Mr Ndlovu, one of the tasks of the Commission is to recommend reparation and rehabilitation and also special methods of remembering people who have died. You have talked about the contribution that was made by the youth in June 1976. Is there anything that you would like to say about how they can be remembered?

MR NDLOVU: They started, in actual fact, I would say a start has been made this year by letting these people know the importance of this day. As I have said those fallen 

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&#9;8&#9;E NDLOVU

heros' they are just not be left unsung like that. I think that will help even the coming generations to know about this event. It is very important and I think it is having a global effect, not only on Soweto either. You see other countries are trying to know what they are worth. See now, if you are globally consciousised about June 16, what happened and the results thereof, I mean, we have to keep the youth together. They are the future rulers of this country. 

MS SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndlovu, I will ask you, can you switch off your mike please?

MR NDLOVU: Once again the blue.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I will ask you a related question to what the fellow Commissioners have just asked. On the basis of what you are saying we are concerned that we need to assist policy makers to help the present generation of students to raise critical questions about June 16, but at the same time, I suppose, they have a responsibility to guard against creating the, maintaining the diversities that exist which were created by our previous Government in terms of black, white. What do you think needs to be done to assist students to be aware and to understand what happened, but to move closer to each other instead of maintaining their diversities.

INTERPRETER: The speakers mike is not on.

MR NDLOVU: As I said they need a lot in their different students. It is privilege that there are so many of these associations, but if we had one association speaking one language, coming together from time to time, discuss their problems I think the present set of people in the education, SOWETO HEARING&#9;GAUTENG PROVINCE

 

&#9;9&#9;E NDLOVU

I think they are there for the help of the students. Let us not neglect putting their problems before any action, putting their problems to the people who are, relevant people. 

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Mr Ndlovu, one of our functions is also to investigate some of the conflicts that were taking place such as black on black violence and you mentioned a while ago that when the police came to take you out, nicodemisely, as you said, they made promises to you. Could you share what those promises were when they wanted you to work for them or that kind of thing?

MR NDLOVU: No, not to work for them. Not to work for them. You see the threat, in those times I did not elaborate on the threats. The threats were the children. Where are these children?

MS SEROKE: No, I thought you said they made promises to you. I thought that is what you said. If that is not the case, it is okay.

MR NDLOVU: No, no, not promises. Not promises.

MS SEROKE: Let us go on and when the children discussed the issue of Afrikaans with you as a principal, did you think that they found it difficult or was it just an attitude against this Afrikaans?

MR NDLOVU: What had happened prior to the, I was in the primary school then, the present subject then had taken the form ones into the higher primary school and in some of the schools already then, they were boycotting classes. They were no more attending classes. Now, I did not have that difficulty because I had sited on giving the children terminologies to, given to them terminologies and then I had SOWETO HEARING&#9;GAUTENG PROVINCE

 

&#9;10&#9;E NDLOVU

no boycott, but then all students started boycotting the maths classes and by that boycott they could show that they are not and inspectors knew about it. When we tried to say, hey man, have a heart, our problems. No, those were not met. They were just taken as teething problems when they were really problems. 

MS SEROKE: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Ndlovu, I just want to, once more, emphasise what other fellow Commissioners have said. That we really thank you in a special way for your courage. You seem to have constructed a meaning for yourself of what happened around that time and that has helped you somehow to live with the losses that directly affected you as a person. We thank you for that and hope that you will encourage many other parents in a similar position like yourself who had major personal losses. We thank you very much. 

MR NDLOVU: Thank you.

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