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THEMBINKOSI STEVEN NGQELE
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TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

DAY 2 - 11 JUNE 1996

 

CASE NO:&#9;&#9;&#9;CT/00653

VICTIM:&#9;&#9;&#9;IZAKIEL MOKONE

VIOLATION:&#9;&#9;KILLED BY HAND GRENADE

&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;DURING MARCH 

TESTIMONY BY:&#9;&#9;THEMBINKOSI STEVEN NGQELE

 

MS SOOKA:

Could we call Thembinkosi Ngqele to the stand please. Thembinkosi, do you want to put on the earphones? Can you hear me - you are going to give your evidence in Xhosa, is that correct?

MR NGQELE:

Yes, that’s correct.

MS SOOKA:

Could you stand up please so that Mr Potgieter can administer the Oath?

 

THEMBINKOSI STEVEN NGQELE&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states

 

ADV POTGIETER:

Thank you very much - you may be seated.

MS SOOKA:

We would like to thank you for coming to give evidence to the others. I want you to relax and the evidence that you are going to give, give that without any hesitation, so that the mission of this Commission could carry on, so that you and Sipho and the others can reconcile and that would be only possible if you speak here.

The thing that is going to help us a lot is the fact that you should try to tell us all the truths that we didn’t hear on that day when there was a court hearing. Do we understand each other?

MR NGQELE:

Yes.

MS SOOKA:

I would like you to tell us where you were born, give us your background and before you give us details about what happened because we want you to tell us what happened on this day of the march, but we would like you to give us background.

MR NGQELE:

I am Thembinkosi Steven Ngqele and I was born here in Kimberley. I attended school here at the Masesa Lower Primary School and then I went to Zengisa Higher Primary. I worked at Serelitso where I started Std 6 - I started Std 6 in Serelitso.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

I’m sorry the interpreter cannot interpret.

MR NGQELE:

I was taken by the police at home.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Please come back on the day when we want to talk about - we want to we want to know what really happened during that time and then you can go on and state how were you arrested and what happened when you were arrested.

MR NGQELE:

It was on the 21st and we were coming from school - there was a march where we were going to the Bophuthatswana offices from school. We were coming from school. We warned the people at the Arena. We met a crowd - we were coming out from school at Serelitso School - the part that we played - we were marshals, most of us we were belonging to the Youth League - we marched to town.

During that period there was memoranda which were handed over to the Consul. Three of them were handed to the Consul. When I was looking down I saw a grenade going past my feet and I mentioned that I saw the grenade. So many people were injured during this incident and the others were taken to the offices. We helped with the transportation of some of the people and one of my friends was killed in the bombing.

Thereafter we went to the location - we stayed for a short period. On the 1st and the 2nd day - on the 3rd of June the police came in to my place. It was very early in the morning. I think it was 2 am. They surrounded the house - when they knocked at the door my mother opened and they stated that they wanted to search the house - they also stated that I threw a grenade during the march and amongst the marchers.

I was taken with my brother and we were put in front. After they searched they went out - they searched on the premises but they didn’t get what they wanted. Their truck was just next to our house. Terror Kapanda was amongst them and I think it was adjudant Starke - they came back and Terror pointed at me and said we want to go along with you.

They took me along and when I was about to go - when I was about to go out the gate they took me to the Golf car - it was a Citi Golf which was just next to - to their truck. They took me to their offices and they wanted me to give details of what happened.

I stated that I didn’t know anything about the grenade but they insisted that there is somebody who is 111 and 222 and they said I know about those passwords and slogans. I denied knowing anything about this. They did not tell me anything and did not insisted that I should say anything about the Trust Bank incident but they asked me about some things that I didn’t know about.

On the first day I was able to tolerate what they were doing but the second day there was another police commissioner who came. He brought a letter and then it was stated that I was detained under the Security Act for 10 days, I was the accused. The letter was written to me and they said I must sign but I refused. Mr [indistinct] he is now a Lieutenant he is at the SP, he was present, they also pressurised me to sign, I did.

On the second day I was taken to the Transvaal Road Police Station. They released me at eight and they interrogated me again. They asked me do I know who is responsible for what happened - I said I don’t know anything about that. The adjutant was the leader of the interrogators - he came time and again and continued with the interrogation. They asked me if I wanted to be released. I said, obviously I do and then he said if I want to then I must speak the truth. I should state that I have seen people who have thrown the grenade. I said they must tell me who those people are and then he said no, their names should not be known but they stated that I am expected to state that I know those people.

On another day they came again and continued with their interrogation. This went on for days and then they said to me can you see that the ANC does not care about you because they don’t even want anybody to defend you. They get lawyers for other people but they don’t for you and then this went on for two weeks and I think it was the first week of July Captain Rossouw came to me and Major van der Kolf they came with this old man Ngomasa and they said that he is going to be my interpreter because I couldn’t understand their language so he was going to help me because I was Xhosa-speaking.

So they said that - they learned that I and Sipho were responsible for that - I denied it again. I was taken to the Du Toitspan Road. I was taken to the upper offices and he said if I don’t speak he is going to throw me out. I still said I don’t know anything.

The second day when they took me again - they took me again to the Transvaal Road Police Station. They also showed me where they threw Arthur Mabija and they said one of your comrades was thrown out of this window, we are going to do the same with you. But I insisted that I didn’t know anything.

There was a Sergeant, he was also in the branch - he was hitting me and boxing me, Lawrence Mbatha was also arrested and then he said - the sergeant said Lawrence has given them the information, so I must just comply. I said it is up to him but I don’t know anything. They also read what was supposed to have been stated by the people whom they said they are my Comrades.

They read it through again and then they insisted that I should agree and admit that I know what is written there but I still refused. At the end through the intimidation and when they were trying to show me how they are going to throw me out of the window, I was afraid. At the end I signed because I feared for my life.

They said then they are going to release me but at the end didn’t - there were extensions of the ten day detention but I had visitors - the mother - my mother was the only visitor but they didn’t give her what was really happening about me. Then they told me that I would be going to court and I was supposed to state everything that was signed there and then they said I must say what I have signed for.

Rossouw came to fetch me, he was the Captain and on my way to the court he stated, he drilled me to say what I was supposed to say in court.. It was a hell of a indoctrination. In court when I tried to state what happened, he tried to prohibit me from doing so. 

ADV NTSEBEZA:

I can’t understand - there is something I would like you to repeat. Do you say Rossouw - what did - he is going to say?

MR NGQELE:

He said he is going to kill me.

MS SOOKA:

[indistinct] 

 

MR NGQELE:

Yes, because it was my first experience to be arrested so I believed anything that the police said to me and also I didn’t have a lawyer so I knew that anything could happen to me.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Did you stay six months there?

MR NGQELE:

Yes, I did.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Just tell us about the day when you were in court - the day when you were in court.

MR NGQELE:

Which day?

ADV NTSEBEZA:

The day you was in court.

MR NGQELE:

Do you mean the day before I did go to the court now?

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Yes.

MR NGQELE:

Yes before I went to court they showed me a photograph and they stated how Mabija fell through the window, they pushed him so they said if I want to go - to be released then I must work with them. So I feared what was going to happen to me because I had no lawyer and I knew that I would stay for a long time in jail.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

And then when you realised that you were alone you felt that you should sign?

MR NGQELE:

Yes, I did because I was in solitary confinement, even Lawrence I didn’t see him, they just said Lawrence was arrested and he was released because he told the truth.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

It is why Sipho said that really you could not just state what you said before without the pressure. In other words whilst you give evidence now, you used your statement because you knew that if you say something different you would be in for a high jump.

MR NGQELE:

Yes, it is because I was fearing for my life so I had to abide by their expectations that is why I am apologising now to the people.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Just tell me how are you?

MR NGQELE:

I am 21 years old.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

How old were you then?

MR NGQELE

I was - I was 17 - I was 18 years when I was already in cells.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Did you meet Sipho already before this day?

MR NGQELE:

No I have never met them.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Is it the first time that you see them?

MR NGQELE:

Yes, it is.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Ever since you met them after the court proceedings.

MR NGQELE: 

Yes, and after these court proceedings I was told by Kampala that Van der Kolf wanted to see me but before they took me there I went to the intelligence of the ANC organisation and then this one said yes, they will come and assist me but they never came back to me. Terror said they will come again to get some statement from me, but this never happened.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

If what you say to the Commission can assist these people who are detained to be released would you like that to happen? What you said today - do you expect it to assist the detained people to be released.

MR NGQELE:

Yes, I think so because you know the boers pressurised me to do what I didn’t intend to do.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Okay, except - just tell me what - what did the police do to you when you were arrested?

MR NGQELE:

Mostly they used to send some boers to me and the boers would just slap me on the back and kick me.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

So when they showed you this Mabija, what did they do?

MR NGQELE:

They took me and showed me through the window, - the commander of - that unfortunately what befell one of my comrades, when he was in Bloemfontein he was shot while I was back in Bophuthatswana to report to my Commanders. Then the other one was arrested.

ADV NTSEBEZA:

What would you like the Commission to do for you?

MR NGQELE:

I would like the Commission to really attend to the fact that the two people detained should be released so that they can forgive me - I would also like them to bring the police who did all this - should appear before all of us in public so that they can be seen by everyone.

 

ADV NTSEBEZA:

Thank you madam Chair.

MS SOOKA:

Denzil - could we have some quite please.

ADV POTGIETER:

Can I just go back to the incident - did I understand you correctly. All that you saw was this grenade that came past your feet, is that what you saw?

MR NGQELE:

Yes it is so.

ADV POTGIETER:

Did you see where the grenade was coming from?

MR NGQELE:

No I didn’t - I just saw it going past - it was rolling past and I just said grenade.

ADV POTGIETER:

So would it be correct to say you don’t know who threw that hand grenade.

MR NGQELE:

No, I don’t.

MS SOOKA:

Thembinkosi I want to thank you for coming here today, I know that it is not easy and none of us here in this room can judge you because all of us don’t know what we would have done if we had been in your shoes. We know that the pressure upon you at the time by the police who were in charge of these matters, was very-very great and yes, the fear that you might end up like your comrade must have been very-very real for you.

We are very grateful that you’ve come forward to give your evidence and we hope that through the evidence which you have given and Mr Smiles, that we are able to set in motion the freeing of two people who are innocent and who have already wasted two years of their lives in prison. In a way, four lives have been destroyed because all four of you have been carrying around guilt and fears of terror - your whole lives have been ruined and you are very-very young men indeed.

This is the sad price that our country has had to pay that so many young people’s lives have been wasted. We thank you for coming forward - thank you.

 

