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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;25.07.1996&#9;&#9;&#9;NAME: ARTHUR LOLLAN

CASE: &#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9; SOWETO

DAY 4

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CHAIRPERSON: I would like to ask Mr Lollan to take the stand, please, Mr Arthur Lollan. Can you please stand, Sir, to take the oath.

ARTHUR LOLLAN: (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for coming before the Commission. Mr Lollan, thank you for making the statement and appearing before the Commission. I will ask one of the Commissioners to lead you, that is Glenda Wildschut.

MS WILDSCHUT: Before I address myself to you, Mr Lollan, may I just say to you Madam Chair, that we will be hearing from somebody who could be regarded as a veteran in our struggle for freedom and democracy in this country. Mr Lollan will be talking to us about himself but mainly about his brother, Stanley Lollan and also about other family members who have been working together for freedom in this country.

&#9;Mr Lollan, thank you very much for coming. Welcome to this hearing of the Truth and Reconciliciation Commission.

&#9;We have spoken a little bit before you have come to present yourself before us, and you have thought about what you are going to say. So I will try and allow you to tell us your story and by way of introduction, would you tell us a little bit about yourself and about your family and your brother, and then to go into the story of which your 

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statement you have made to the Commission.

MR LOLLAN: Thank you. My name is Arthur Lollan, the younger brother of Stanley Lollan who was charged with high treason in 1956 of December, together with our State President, Nelson Mandela, Oliver Thambo, Joe Slovo, Helen Joseph and others.

&#9;My brother, Stanley escaped the Rivonia dragnet miraculously, for unknown reasons. My brother, Stanley, myself and my youngest brother, Ernest, all had our primary education in Booyens, Overton, under the old TED, Transvaal Education Department system. Thereafter Stanley and I went on to college at ETC, which is Euro-Afric Training Centre in Vrededorp.

&#9;Stanley matriculated, but I dropped out after completing my JC junior certificate. I went to a private fashion school where I obtained a diploma in fashion design, at the Learned Academy of Fashion Design. I was the first non-White to gain the distinction, together with an Indian girl called Zorre, whom I hope to meet one day.

&#9;Stanley was the Transvaal secretary of the South African Coloured Peoples Organisation, also known as SACPO. An organisation which formed an alliance for the African National Congress, known as the ANC, during the years of so-called struggle.

&#9;Stanley was very close to Nelson Mandela who he affectionately called Madiba. Stanley Lorran was at an early age very rebellious and concerned about the plight of the non-White masses. Thus his political career. I and my younger sister, Mavis Lorran, also followed in his footsteps.

&#9;My sister, Mavis, also a member of the Industrial 

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Cuncil for the Clothing Industry was very close to Helen Joseph and Maggie and Robert Gesha, Hettie September and others, including people like Lionel Morrison, Ellen Kuwayo who earlier testified at the hearing.

&#9;I followed my brother around wherever he went to attend meetings for the South African Indian Council, the Transvaal Indian Congress and many other parties and organisations.

&#9;I myself was a member of the Garment Workers Union since its inception, under the leadership of the late Solly Sacks and later Jimmy Thomas, general secretary of the Industrial Council of Clothing Workers.

&#9;Stanley and my sister, Mavis Lollan, who were employed by the Industrial Council for the Clothing Industry and I was also employed as a cutting room supervisor in a clothing factory. I was also a shop steward and attended meetings of the Garment Workers Union together with people like Thom Mashanine, Lucy Muvebelo, Helen Joseph and many others. I also served on NEC, Naional Executive Committee of the Garment Workers Union.

&#9;In the early Sixties, a new law called Job Reservation Act was passed and I was the first victim of that law. It was splashed all over in the newspapers of the day. I refused to obey that law and as a result of that I was victimised and called a Communist. I lost that job and moved on to other factories, working here and there until I got fed of being harassed. 

&#9;I eventually landed in the hands of the police who interrogated me at Grays, in Main Street. Now the Grays is a building which housed the firm of Gray Smith & Company, hence the name Grays, the special branch headquarters.

&#9;I was also detained at John Vorster Square by a 

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Coloured special branch detective Du Plessis. For two days I was stripped naked and made to stand up against a wall for hours until I felt faint. While they were watching me from a two-way mirror in another room. That was for taking part in women's marches and various other activities and for arranging transport for people who could not walk during the marches.

&#9;The Lollan family were all activists. My other sister, Harriet Lollan, who is a teacher in Eldorado Park, was concerned mainly with community upliftment and still is today. My mother, Augustine Lollan, hosted many parties and receptions for people like Oliver Thambo, Nelson Mandela, Dumin Nokwe, the first Black advocate, Helen Joseph, George Peak who died in London, Alex Leguma, Joe Gumede, Don Mateman, not to mention Freda Katz, Ruth First and many others. My mother's house was always a hive of activity for politicians, church and community leaders. My mother is still alive and is 95 years old. Her dying wish is to see Madiba after so many years.

&#9;She recalls the days when the police would raid our house, looking for Stanley and Madiba, while the two were disguised in Putco overalls and caps. I will never forget the day the police surrounded my house, which was a block away from my mother's house. As Madiba and Stanley did not realise the police, 30 of them, were waiting for them to appear after a tip-off. I managed to alert my brother and Madiba not to walk towards to my house, but to use a back road to evade the police, who then assaulted me so severely that I was taken to Dr Nji for treatment.

&#9;Then the police under Maj-Gen Attie Spangler, I think he was, told me that they had orders to kill the "donders" 

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and shoot them on sight. I probably saved both their lives that day. I am sure the President will remember that incident.

&#9;In December of 1956 when the police and accused were ushered into the makeshift court at the drill hall, I was outside on the pavement with a parcel of fish and chips, a bottle of Coke and an overcoat for my brother, Stanley.

&#9;I think it was day two of their appearance at the drill hall and as the truck carrying the accused entered the drill hall driveway, I waved to all the accused and suddenly I was pulled back, thrown to the ground, kicked, assaulted with a blunt object which cracked my skull. I was dazed and bleeding and ran towards the parking lot of the civic drill hall. I felt faint and felt a sharp sting on my leg as I turned round to look back, and found that I was shot. I fell down, the crowds trampled on me. I got up and ran, never to go back to the trial again.

&#9;Even when the trial was removed to Pretoria, the Old Synagogue I did not go, but I did not go to hospital because I was afraid they would find me and kill me or arrest me.

&#9;I was treated privately by an Indian doctor who came to the Industrial Council's roof-top cottage where I was hiding and recuperating for two weeks. 

&#9;In those days there were spies and government agents all over. I was so scared and nervous I could not sleep peacefully. 

&#9;In the ensuing weeks and months police would raid my house in the middle of the night, looking for my brother and sister, Mavis. When things started to hot up for my brother after the trial, he fled to Swaziland. My sister, Mavis was detained on several occasions, tortured, assaulted and later SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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died of a brain haemorrhage.

&#9;My home was under surveillance day and night. While I slept, at least while we slept, they, the police would kick the doors open, pull the blankets off my bed, insult my wife and my children, who would run screaming out of my house to my mother's house, three blocks away in the dead of night.

&#9;I was assaulted so many times just because I did not answer their questions or tell them where my brother was. While my brother was in exile in Swaziland I was always in contact with him telephonically or by way of hand-post. I knew exactly all about his movements.

&#9;Then one day I received a phone call from a certain person, Tom Madumo, who was a teacher from the Swaziland Training College, asking me to get to Swaziland immediately. My passport was in order and I motored to Swaziland after midnight so as to be at the border in the morning. On arriving there at Tom's place, I was taken to Stanley in hospital in Mmbane, where he was in a critical condition. His flat was in disorder, doors ripped off, pamphlets, typewriter and everything there was taken away and blood was all over the place. Had it not been for a Swazi Cabinet Minister who was visiting Stanley that day, he would probably have been killed.

&#9;I later learnt that those responsible for the attack was the South African police, including one Russel Lorry, a Coloured policeman.

&#9;Once in Orlando at a political meeting, I was arrested together with a certain Henry Numalo and Stanley. We were beaten up and dumped in Pretoria and told to walk back to Johannesburg.

&#9;After the Swaziland attack on my brother, he was always SOWETO HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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being harassed by agents of the South African police. So much so that the late King Sobuza sheltered Stanley within the palace grounds until he was well enough to flee to London, where he obtained British citizenship. 

&#9;While living in London Stanley's pursuers were still hunting him. They eventually caught up with him. Then one day, while addressing a crowd at London's Hyde Park, which is Speaker's Corner he was again severely assaulted and hospitalised in Holloway. That was during the Release Mandela Campaign. The hospital was the Royal Northern Hospital in Holloway, Holloway Road, somewhere in Islington. &#9;I was telephonically in contact with a certain Cathy Wood or Ward, a social worker in London. She kept me informed of all my brother's activities. Thanks to her, she is an angel.

&#9;Dr Byan Ngyere assisted me in my plea to be sent overseas to London to visit my dying brother. I eventually flew to London and on arrival there I was met by James Mhlope Phillips and Maud, his wife and daugther, who arranged for my stay with them during my time in London. They were also exiles in London.

&#9;I was happy to be able to visit the London headquarters of the ANC where I met many exiles, including Nzwayo Philiso, Peggy Stevensen, Errol Tobias and many others. I even visited Robbie Gersher's grave, No 437 in Arnold's Grove in Brunswick Park. Stanley was then in Frian Barnard Hospital where I visited him every day.

&#9;While in London I went to the South African Embassy in Duncanan Road in Trafalgar Square where I was treated with indifference, and made to sit for hours, pleading with different officials to allow my brother back in South 

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Africa.

&#9;Eventually after my long, after many long weeks in London I managed to convince the authorities to allow Stanley back into South Africa. He was eventually put on a stretcher together with a doctor and a nurse and was flown back to South Africa. On arriving back in South Africa, at Jan Smuts Airport, Stanley was held in the transit lounge for hours, in that sick condition, while Government red tape, typical of South Africa, was being practised.

&#9;Back home my brother was a vegetable, he was sickly, aggressive, moody and kept on saying to me Arthur, where are the police, where are the agents, "waar is die boere" (where are the boere) and I would say Stanley, don't worry, it is all over now, you are free. Stanley died in my house two months later in Eldorado Park. (PAUSE).

&#9;All his friends were at his funeral in Eldorado Park, including the late Helen Joseph and I think Ahmed Kathrada and many of his Indian, African, White and Coloured colleagues.

&#9;I could then go on with my wife. In 1986 I joined the Civil Service as a property inspector and continued to served the community in that capacity. Excuse me. (PAUSE).

&#9;As time went by I was treated with contempt by my superiors in the Civil Service because I was branded an ANC loyalist. I was forced to resign my job because I questioned the subsidy system which operated then. I was never treated equally like my colleagues who were enjoying subsistence allowances and I felt they wrongfully made me to lose my job.

&#9;One day my mother and I were picked up by the police, taken to Marshall Square and from thereon to Pretoria. I 

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remember entering a building called Civitas House. We were then taken to the 10th or 11th floor, where we were both interrogated for hours. My mother was not feeling very well. I tried to reason with the interrogators but to no avail. I was taken to another room where Eben Dönges, the Minister of Interior at the time, asked me where my brother was, and how did he flee the country. I could not answer his questions and I was assaulted so severely that my urine turned red. 

&#9;When they were satisfied that we hardly saw my brother and did not know his whereabouts they told us to go home. We had nothing to eat the whole of that day, neither did we know Pretoria well. We just walked around until we reached a robot and as the police van stopped, I asked a young White policeman the way to Johannesburg. He said he was going to Soweto, and if we did not mind sitting in the back, it is okay with him. I said to my mother ma, let's go. The police dropped us at Bara Hospital. I just said thank you, God. 

&#9;When we got off he asked me why I was bleeding from my nose. I said to him I was assaulted by thugs in Pretoria. Once at Baragwanath Hospital we took a taxi to Eldorado Park. The next day I went to a clinic for treatment.

&#9;I cannot recall all the incidents which made life hell during those years for my family. The Lorran family that were adamant to continue with the struggle, in spite of the pressures that were brought to bear on them. 

&#9;Since the declaration of Freedom Charter at Freedom Square, where myself and my brother and my sister, Mavis attended, we knew that one day, if God will, we will be free. When our hero, Madiba was released we were there at his humble abode in Soweto, to welcome him back to 

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civilisation. He is not just one of the greatest Statesmen in the world, but the only Statesman who can lead the world and its peoples onto true democracy and peace. May God add many more years to his life. I thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

MS WILDSCHUT: Mr Lollan, no doubt you have given us a very eloquent account of yourself and your brother and your family's life in the past. But may I just ask a few questions for clarity. 

&#9;Maybe I will start with your account of your sister who died, as you said of a brain haemorrhage. Can I ask, was that her death as a result of the interrogations and questioning and the torture that she had undergone? Was that as a result of the torture?

MR LOLLAN: She would always confide in me and tell me that she suffers from headaches, through the beatings she got from the police.

MS WILDSCHUT: Yes.

MR LOLLAN: The day she haemorrhaged, I thought it was a result of all those beatings that she got.

MS WILDSCHUT: Had she been seen by doctors, had she been examined post, after the interrogations, so that this could be verified?

MR LOLLA: She was a very private person, she would not talk t my mother or anybody else, she used to confide in me and never even broke the news to anybody. She always kept to herself.

MS WILDSCHUT: So in a sense the torture and the interrogations that she had gone through, was a very private affair and she had not shared that with anybody.

MR LOLLAN: Not shared with anybody.

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MS WILDSCHUT: Except with you. Thanks. I just need to ask questions around sequence, with regard to your brother, Stanley. You were taken to Civitas Building, as you described. Was that before Stanley came back to South Africa or was it just after he was acquitted from the treason trial and the police were trying to get information from you about his whereabouts?

MR LOLLAN: Yes, it was after the treason trial.

MS WILDSCHUT: So it was soon after the treason trial?

MR LOLLAN: Yes.

MS WILDSCHUT: Where you and your sister were taken - you and your mother were taken to Civitas Building?

MR LOLLAN: That's right.

MS WILDSCHUT: Can you just take us through that interrogation that happened at Civitas Building, just very briefly. Could you tell us how you were interrogated, what was the nature of the questioning that you were undergoing and whether you were assaulted at all at that point.

MR LOLLAN: All they wanted to know from me was whether my brother was in Eldorado Park or somewhere in Johannesburg. They told me that they had information that he was somewhere in Botswana or in Swaziland. They took me to another room where they kept on beating me until I was almost, until I fainted.

MS WILDSCHUT: So you had lost consciousness during that interrogation.

MR LOLLAN: Yes.

MS WILDSCHUT: Was that the time when you were also injured, I would imagine on your back, because you were saying that your urine was red. 

MR LOLLAN: I think my kidneys were damaged. I had 

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terrible pains in my kidneys, because they kicked me more than 10, 20 times.

MS WILDSCHUT: Right. During that interrogation you were separated from your mother. Do you know whether your mother took was beaten and interrogated at that point?

MR LOLLAN: No, they treated her very nicely.

MS WILDSCHUT: I guess your mother must have gone through quite a bit of anguish, because she was aware that you were being interrogated and tortured as well.

MR LOLLAN: She almost died when she saw me coming out of the next room.

MS WILDSCHUT: So in a sense that could also be regarded as a form of torture?

MR LOLLAN: That's right.

MS WILDSCHUT: For your mother, to watch you and to see you being hurt and interrogated.

MR LOLLAN: Precisely.

MS WILDSCHUT: What in your mind was the cause of, the actual cause of your brother's death? Because the way in which you describe it was that after he had been arrested or beaten up at Hyde Park Corner, his health deteriorated. So can you give us an idea what, in your opinion, was the cause of his death?

MR LOLLAN: It definitely was the beatings he got over the years. He was arrested on several occasions and beaten up so many times, I can't remember. And he became, I think there was a word they used, he was suffering from a mental disorder because of all the beatings. I went to a clinic, to a hospital in Arnolds Grove, Frian Barnard Hospital and I spoke there to a male nurse, Mr Sullivan, and he told me that all the knocks and bruises on Stanley's head and body, 

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was the cause of his illness. I even visited several police stations in London, one of which was Holloway Prison and one in Islington, to find out exactly why on a few occasions Stanley was arrested. Then I found out from an Indian friend of Stanley's, that the agents would beat him up before he entered his flat every night. They would wait for him outside and give him a beating and then drag him to the police station and accuse him of being drunk.

MS WILDSCHUT: So in a sense the harassment that he had experienced in South Africa, followed him even into London in exile? 

MR LOLLAN: In London, even worse in London.

MS WILDSCHUT: I see. I do not have any more questions, except to find out from your, as a representative of your family, what are the kinds of responses that you would like to have from the Commission with regard to the statement that you have made to us today. What are the kinds of things that you would like us to do, and also, if you have given any thought to what kind of recommendations the Commission should make to the President at the end of the mandate of this Commission, in respect of human rights abuses?

MR LOLLAN: It is very difficult to say. But the treason trial and the Rivonia trials were not just something easily forgotten. It was an act of God, these things had to happen, and because of that those heroes shaped the future of this country. Their families and loved ones must be compensated and cared for in a way which would satisfy them, not that we are asking for hand-outs or charities, but because of all the things we lost during the years. When I left England with my brother, I left a flat full of

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furniture, house full of things, and even in Swaziland, when the flat from Swaziland, he left many things behind. That is a material loss. I am not speaking about physical losses or spiritual loss, it is hard to calculate the amount of compensation that can be given to these heroes.

MS WILDSCHUT: Thank you very much, Mr Lollan. I will ask the other Commissioners if they have any questions or comments that they would like to direct to you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Tom Manthata?

MR MANTHATA: Thank you. Did you feel that Stanley was left unprotected and insecure, by the British Police and perhaps even our ANC staff in London, at the time of his sufferings in Britain?

MR LOLLAN: I believe that because of Stanley's illness he was inactive later in England. Because of that I think he had little contact with the hierarchy of the ANC. According to James Phillips who also died in England, Stanley was very active. I believe he would go with him to various places in and around London, teaching people freedom songs and the like and being busy holding meetings everywhere. So that alone tells me that Stanley was active, and that he was often left alone when he had to go home at night. That's the time when these agents - because he was always talking about these agents that were following him around. I remember distinctly an Indian shopkeeper in Marlborough Road, in Upper Holloway, he just came out of the blue, when I went to Stanley's flat. He said to me hello, you look very much like Stanley, is Stanley your brother? I said yes. He asked who am I. I said I am Arthur, I am from South Africa. He says man, you had better stay here and look after your brother, there is always people hanging around outside 

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his flat assaulting him when he goes back at night to his flat.

MR MANTHATA: The way you described Stanley, he was a very powerful man and very courageous. Did you ever consult with him when you had to go to South Africa House to ask for his return and when you went to people like Dawn Mateman to solicit her intervention, that he be brought back home.

MR LOLLAN: I have a letter here which I wrote to the South African authorities, I have the letter in my attaché case, but I don't know if that letter influenced the South African authorities in any way. What I do know is that the ANC, they assisted me in getting Stanley back to South Africa.

MR MANTHATA: My question was, would Stanley have approved of your request to the South African Embassy and to people like Dawn Mateman at that time, to intervene that he be brought back to South Africa?

MR LOLLAN: I also have a letter in my attaché case here, which proves that he wrote a letter to the authorities, asking to be sent - asking them to be sent back to South Africa. 

MR MANTHATA: Thank you, no further questions.

MR LOLLAN: I have here a photograph of him, that's him. That photograph was taken by Ele Wynberg, many years ago.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I will ask the Commissioners to assist you in giving more information. Yasmin Sooka?

MS SOOKA: I don't actually want to ask you a question, except to ask, there seems to be a tendency in our country to forget people who were heroes in the 1960s. 

AUDIENCE: Hear, hear!

MS SOOKA: Part of, I think part of our job is actually to make recommendations to Government about reparation and 

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rehabilitation, but it also includes, I think, some form of acknowledgement for people who lost their lives in the struggle. Do you have any particular recommendation which you would like us to think about?

MR LOLLAN: First I would like a tombstone to be erected on his grave site, and I am talking about financial compensation, I am not so keen on that. As I said before I am not asking for hand-outs, but there is a certain amount of reparation to be done, and I wouldn't be in a position to say what it should be or should not be. I leave it to the Commission to decide.

MS SOOKA: There also seems to be in our country, from a lot of the stories that have come through, that many people are still suffering with the anguish and the pain and many families like yourself, have been harassed. There have been suggestions by some of the people who have come forward, that one needs to have trauma centres set up right around the country. So that people can actually begin to deal with their pain, before we become a society which is even wracked more by violence than we have at this point in time. Would you support that kind of idea?

MR LOLLAN: Yes, by all means.

MS SOOKA: Thank you, I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke?

MS SEROKE: You mentioned Tom Madumo, who lived in Swaziland and was very close to your brother. Are you still in contact with Tom?

MR LOLLAN: I have lost all contact with Tom, and I believe his wife died, she was a lovely person. We all knew each other from way back in Sophiatown, where my father had a house, No 17 Good Street. 

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MS SEROKE: We know where Tom is at the moment and we would have contact with him if we need more information about your brother, when he was still in Swaziland.

MR LOLLAN: I will be very grateful.

MS SEROKE: And I can also furnish you with his telephone number now.

MR LOLLAN: Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. I will ask Hugh Lewin, one of the Commissioners to thank you for coming.

MR LEWIN: Mr Lollan, thank you very much. I would like on behalf of the Commission just to say how much we recommend, commend you for your courage and perseverance through all these years, you and your family. Also I think to thank you especially, because listening to your story has been, it is almost a litany of our history over the past 30, 40 years. I think the only sad thing about it is to think that your brother, Stanley didn't actually share in the events, particularly of the last five years. But we would like to thank you very much and commend you. Thank you very much.

MR LOLLAN: Thank you.

APPLAUSE

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.

 

 

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