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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

 

DATE:&#9;&#9;24.09.1996&#9;&#9;NAME: THABANG R MOPELOA

CASE NUMBER: 01527 &#9; KLERKSDORP

DAY 2

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DR RANDERA: Mr Mopeloa, good afternoon. 

MR MOPELOA: Good afternoon, Sir.

DR RANDERA: I trust you had a good lunch.

MR MOPELOA: Yes, I ate, my tummy actually nearly burst.

DR RANDERA: That's good to know. Mr Mopeloa, you have come from Lebaleng outside Makwassie, to tell us about what happened to you on the 17th of June 1986. Before I ask you to take the oath, can you please introduce the young lady who is with you.

MR MOPELOA: This beautiful woman next to me is my younger sister.

DR RANDERA: We also welcome you. Mr Mopeloa, would you please stand to take the oath.

THABANG REGINALD MOPELOA: (Duly sworn, states).

DR RANDERA: Mr Mopeloa, you will just have to excuse me while I shift chairs, okay, as I am helping you. Mr Mopeloa, as I said to you earlier on, you are going to tell us what happened to you in 1986. Before you go onto that, will you please tell us something about your family circumstances and your personal circumstances.

MR MOPELOA: I am a very energetic youth, I am 27 years old. I am the second born in the small family of three members. I must say I have been very crippled by the past experiences KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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and that is why I am appearing before the Commission today. I am no working because I am not able to work.

DR RANDERA: Thank you. Mr Mopeloa, before you go on to tell us what happened on the 17th of June, perhaps you can tell us what was happening in the Lebaleng, in that year. Were things very quiet, was there unrest, was there a rent boycott, were you involved in any political activities yourself?

MR MOPELOA: If I remember very well, it was on the 17th of June. It was during the school holidays. In Lebaleng, Makwassie, there was a quiet time. There was no unrest at all and the youth were not that intelligent to be involved in political matters. They didn't know what the ANC was, what the IFP was, and what the National Party was. They only saw such things on television, you know, the violence taking place in different parts of the country. The Black people used to chant freedom songs. 

&#9;On that day, if I remember well, on the 17th, there was a song. The youth was singing freedo songs and I must say the township was just quiet, no unrest of any kind. As they were singing, it so happened that the township went dark. It was for about one and a half hours. After that darkness in the township we only heard a lot of shouting. We heard cries from families. It was the time where the families were attacked and the boers were beating children. 

&#9;These were faceless people. No one could identify them because they were wearing balaclavas, they were wearing big jackets. They had plastic batons and they hit all the equipment they used to beat the children. 

&#9;On the morning of Thursday, at about three o'clock, I heard the boers knocking at the door at my home. As they 

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were knocking my mother opened the door for them. After opening the door they got into the house and asked where was Reginald. She asked them where do you know Reginald from, why do you want him, who are you? They said woman, don't waste our time, we want Reginald. She came to point me out as I was sleeping. I can't even believe the way I was woken up. They beat me up as if they were beating the cows that didn't want to get into the kraal. Baton sticks and everything was on me. 

&#9;When I tried to open my eyes, I saw a large crowd of people. I didn't even know who they were. But among them I saw one of them who was a colleague of my father, a so-called Piet Scheepers and after being threatened by those plastic Zorros, he said dress, we want to leave with you. I woke up, I dressed and we left.

&#9;On our way they were assaulting me and they rounded the whole township, driving along with me. They were picking up every boy, picking up every girl, saying at the ultimate end we will tell them the truth. We don't know what truth they were referring to. 

&#9;They took me to the municipal police at Lebokeng. That is where I was tortured. On my head I was butted with those plastic batons. They then took me to Makwassie police station. I was expecting them maybe to charge me on something. Instead, they interrogated me. They asked me as to who were the people I was with. I asked them a question. I said who are you referring to, who are these people you are referring to, the people I don't know. They said we are talking about the people you were with when you were planning to go and burn the municipal offices. I said to them you are coming with a new story, I do not know 

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anything, I was not present on that day, even when they were chanting the freedom songs, I was at home sleeping, I didn't even have an interest of joining that group. Because at that time I didn't belong to any organisation. I didn't even know anything about politics. 

&#9;For about three days they kept me in the cells at Makwassie police station. I was assaulted every time, I was choked, electric shocks and they said I was the leader of the ANC at Makwassie.

&#9;I asked a question, I said, if you say I am the leader of the ANC, do you have evidence of my activities. They said you think you know better, but today we will give you Mandela. They assaulted me, and they took me out of the group we were arrested with and they put me into one cell and they handcuffed me at the roof of the cell. That is where they applied electric shocks on my private parts. This really damaged me. I even regret, why didn't I become one of the personnel of the past government, maybe I would have done the same thing to some people.

&#9;After the three days that I spent at Makwassie, my parents were trying to get hold of me, to come and visit me. But unfortunately I was badly beaten and assaulted and they wouldn't even recognise it was Reggie. They didn't allow my parents to see me.

&#9;After those three days, they took me, together with a group and they said to me if you do not want to tell us the truth, they said they were going to throw me in an old shaft at Stilfontein. As they were saying this they put me into a room, into a van and they threw a tear-gas canister and they closed the cells. We couldn't breathe at all, we were suffocating, until we were in Stilfontein and that is where 

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I was badly assaulted. I couldn't bear the pain. I have been through hardships. 

&#9;In Stilfontein I was assaulted and tortured and I even asked God to take my life. They poured water on me and they made me lie in the bush and they said I should roll. They said I should sing and I was singing a song "God we praise You", and they put a hosepipe into my mouth, they said you are singing nonsense, why don't you sing the Mandela song, we want to listen to that. I said to them I do not have an idea of what you are talking about, I can't even sing those songs. They forced me to sing and I kept on singing the hymns. 

&#9;They said you don't want to tell the truth, we want to show you now that you will tell us the truth. They took this hosepipe, they put it into my mouth and they opened the tap. My tummy was full of water and I felt as if it was going to burst. I couldn't breathe. Thereafter the so-called Piet Scheepers came closer to me and he said I am now showing you Mandela. He used his boot to kick me on the stomach and the water came out of the mouth and the nose. It was just a terrible state.

&#9;After that they made me run along the cars that were parked in a circle. There were soldiers and policemen, whom I do not know, but I only knew Scheepers. Everybody I come across, used his stick to hit me. Each one of them wanted to have their share on me. 

&#9;I spent five days under the terrible conditon of assault. I was told that I was a leader at Makwassie. After those days that I have mentioned, I was now taken and they said to me they were taking me to a regional court at Wolmaransstad. I was expecting at the court of law to give 

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my statement. But no statement was taken from me. What actually happened, was one of the prosecutors came to me and he intimidated me and said if I do not agree to the charges against me, that is public violence, I will be sentenced for five years.

&#9;We were so scared of the boers at that time, and I was so scared of prison and when they mentioned five years, I got a shock of my life, and I have seen many people who have come from prison, whose lives have been turned into tragedy. I confessed after that intimidation from the prosecutor Jordaan, and I said yes, I was present. You know I just wanted to be free.

&#9;That is what I know.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, Reginald, for sharing that with us. Now this incident that you are relating, is the same time that Kitt Bone was arrested. Were you part of that same group?

MR MOPELOA: Yes, it was one group, Kitty Bone was part of our group, but in the cells we were separated. There were male cells and female cells.

DR RANDERA: Okay. I also note that you know, it was the 17th of June. Was there any commemoration services for JUne 16th? Was that why young people were singing in the streets?

MR MOPELOA: The day was already gone. I do not know what motivated the youth to be that happy. I do not know the jubilation of the day, I can't really predict.

DR RANDERA: Now earlier on you said that when they were beating you up in Makwassie, or I am not quite sure if it is Makwassie or Stilfontein, they accused you of being a leader of the ANC and also they accused you of burning or wanting 

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to burn the municipal offices. Is that right?

MR MOPELOA: Yes, that is what they told me. I didn't, I do not know where they got that information from.

DR RANDERA: Were the municipal offices actually burnt?

MR MOPELOA: No. No building was burnt, no damage was done to any property.

DR RANDERA: And this question of being accused as being a leader of the ANC, remember the ANC at that time was still a banned organisation. Were they accusing you of being a member of the ANC or the UDF?

MR MOPELOA: They said I was an ANC member.

DR RANDERA: Okay. Now in your statement you also make note of the fact that they sjambokked you so badly that you had cuts on your back. Is that right?

MR MOPELOA: That's correct.

DR RANDERA: And you still have those marks on your back?

MR MOPELOA: I still have the marks on my back and these marks have cost me a lot of trouble. I cannot even walk a 250 metre distance. I have to walk and rest, walk and rest.

DR RANDERA: I just want to come to the last part of what you said now, that you were actually charged. You admitted to the charges in Wolmaransstad. Is that right? 

MR MOPELOA: That's right, that was at Wolmaransstad.

DR RANDERA: All of you were charged, including Kitty Bone?

MR MOPELOA: No, no, Kitty Bone and the other members of the group were released, I can't remember the date, but they were released and they were told to go home, but they should find themselves transport. Eight people were left behind. I was among the group of eight people.

DR RANDERA: And was your sentence a suspended sentence? Did you spend any time in prison?

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MR MOPELOA: I only spent eight days, it is three days at Makwassie, five days at Stilfontein and I was taken to Wolmaransstad.

DR RANDERA: Do you remember when the case was heard in Wolmaransstad?

MR MOPELOA: If I remember well, I cannot remember the day, but it was on the same month of June, but towards the end and I was before the Court in Wolmaransstad.

DR RANDERA: What did you admit to, what were the charges and what did you admit to?

MR MOPELOA: They accused me and they wanted me to agree that I was part of the group that planned to burn the municipal offices on that day.

DR RANDERA: Thank you, Reginald, I have no further questions, Chairperson.

MS SOOKA: Thank you, Piet?

PROF MEIRING: Reginald, thank you. I just want to ask, you said that you are not able to work because of the injuries that you sustained. Does that mean there is no work at all which you can do or can you do work set aside for disabled persons?

MR MOPELOA: I can say with my hands I can work, I am not working at this present moment, but I am trying to run my own business. That is the only work I can afford. I do not walk around, I have to sit and work with my hands.

PROF MEIRING: What training do you have, were you at school, high school or when did you leave school?

MR MOPELOA: I did Std 7 at school.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

MS SOOKA: Could I ask, you were charged in Wolmaransstad with public violence and it was probably on the basis of the KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;9&#9;T R MOPELOA

statement that you made. Were you then sentenced, did they find you guilty?

MR MOPELOA: I was found guilty after I was intimidated, that if I do not agree I would go for five years to prison. This means I agreed to the accusation that I didn't even know. I was doing that to let myself free.

MS SOOKA: If you were found guilty, what did the Court sentence you to?

MR MOPELOA: The Court gave me five years of suspension. Before I go to the court of law the prosecutor approached me, his name was Jordaan. I was still in the cell. He said to me if you do not agree with the accusation, know that you are in hell of a trouble. I was then give the five years suspended and I was scared that I would spend the five years in the cell if I did not agree with what he was saying.

MS SOOKA: I am not absolutely sure about something. You say that the police, when beating you, wanted you to sign a statement. You also say that when you were in the cells, when you were being held in the cells, the prosecutor approached you and told you to plead guilty. Now did the prosecutor take a statement from you in which you said you were part of this group that wanted to burn the municipal offices or did the police make you sign such a statement?

MR MOPELOA: The prosecutor didn't make me write any statement. Not even the police, but what they told me, they said if you do not agree with what we are saying, you will be on your own. When I arrived at Wolmaransstad, they didn't even take me to the charge office to take my statement, to take my fingerprints. They were talking as prosecutors. They were standing aside and they were chatting, we do not know what is it they were speaking, and after that the prosecutor KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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came into the cell and that is where he intimidated me. He told me that if I do not agree with what he is saying, I would get five years.

MS SOOKA: After all of this, did you lay a charge against the police for the assault?

MR MOPELOA: I tried to lay charges against the police at Makwassie police station. It was a time of oppression and Black people were so scared of the boers. I took an initiative to go to the police station. On my arrival nobody attended to me. They chased me away, they said I should go to the other police station to try my luck there. I couldn't go to any other police station then.

MS SOOKA: Thank you. Dr Randera wants to ask you one more question.

DR RANDERA: Reginald, I just want to go back to something you said right at the beginning. You said that the policeman who came to arrest you was Piet Scheepers, and that he was a colleague of your father. Is that right?

MR MOPELOA: That's correct.

DR RANDERA: Was your father a policeman himself?

MR MOPELOA: That's correct, he was a policeman.

DR RANDERA: And also, Piet Scheepers was involved in your assault and torture. Was that at Makwassie and at Stilfontein?

MR MOPELOA: It was at Makwassie where he severely assaulted me. He came to Stilfontein to assault me further. I don't know was he not satisfied with the torture he applied to me while we were at Makwassie?

DR RANDERA: Now this gentleman, is he still a member of the police force? Do you know?

MR MOPELOA: I know him very well, and over the past few

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days I have seen him. He is working now somewhere in a shop. I think he resigned from the police service.

MS SOOKA: Thank you. Could we have order, please?

&#9;Reginald, thank you for sharing your story with us. It is not a nice experience that you have actually had. It should not have happened to you. You are still suffering because of the after effects of that beating. We will need to check on all the facts that you have given us. It helps that both you and Kitty Bone are able to give us the story which we can fit together and hand over to our unit to look further into. Thank you for sharing it with us. We are sorry that at such a young age you were forced to experience this kind of treatment at the hands of those who should have protected you. We will do our best to be able to give you some answers and also to see where some sort of assistance can be rendered to you. Thank you for coming today.

MR MOPELOA: I have a request. This man has destroyed my future. I cannot have children. I think the choke they applied on my private parts has affected me in some way.

MS SOOKA: Will the audience please keep quiet. We remind you that it is very painful for witnesses to sit here and confide what is a very intimate detail. We would ask you to respect that, because if you carry on laughing the way you do, it will mean that other witnesses will not be able to feel free to impart details. We require the detail to make sure that it never happens again. So we would plead with you to respect the time when the witness is telling his story. &#9;

&#9;Reginald, you may carry on.

MR MOPELOA: As I have mentioned, I really make love to my wife, but I cannot have babies at all. If I go to doctors, 

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they tell me that the electric shock that was applied on me, has damaged me. I am very young. In other words, I am going to have an incomplete family. I have my family, but it is going to be difficult to live with a wife who, and I don't give her children, you know, and it will be difficult for her as well, to live with me, if I cannot give her babies. It was my intention. I told myself that I am the father in the house, and I was expecting to keep the name of the Mopeloa family. But now because of the trouble I came through, I cannot uphold the name.

&#9;I thank the Truth Commission because people went through hardship and they were not listened to. If an investigation could be made to find as to whether it is true these atrocities took place.

MS SOOKA: I think that what you said is incredibly important. One of the legacies people leave is the fact tht they have children and their chlidren carry on their name. To have that destroyed for you is not very, very easy. 

&#9;But you are quite right, the cut-off date for amnesty draws closer and closer. People have until the 15th of December this year to apply for amnesty, if they have perpetrated gross human rights violations. We remind people that even though we move towards reconciliation, those who have not applied, their cases will probably end up with a prosecution and they may, in the future, be prosecuted. 

&#9;So we appeal to people, this is a wonderful opportunity for you to free yourself and to come forward willingly and to make a full disclosure to the Truth Commission. The names that have been bandied about, are the same ones. We appeal to those people to come forward so that they can themselves be free of this legacy. 

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&#9;Thank you, Reginald for reminding us of that. That there are people out there who have committed these deeds and who need to come forward. It is part of the road to reconciliation.

 

 

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