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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
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&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

 

DATE:&#9;&#9;25.09.1996 NAME: MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI

CASE: 01402&#9;&#9; KLERKSDORP

DAY 3

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CHAIRPERSON: We ask Mamkgele Roselyn Koki to come to the podium, please. Prof Meiring, while you are taking your seat, I would just like to welcome a number of other people who are here today. 

&#9;Mrs Mamkgele, good afternoon and welcome.

MRS KOKI: Good afternoon, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: You too are from Schweizer-Reneke and you have a lady accompanying you this afternoon. Would you like to introduce her to us, please?

MRS KOKI: This is my sister, Joyce Sinogpyane.

CHAIRPERSON: I welcome her too. Mrs Mamkgele, Prof Piet Meiring, who is sitting over there, is going to be helping you in telling your story. Before he does that, could you please stand to take the oath.

MAMKGELE ROSELYN KOKI: (Duly sworn, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Prof Meiring?

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Koki, is it all right if I address you as Mrs Koki, that is your surname?

MRS KOKI: Yes.

PROF MEIRING: Well, a warm word of welcome from me too. I do hope that you find that this is your moment to tell your story. Just before I invite you to relate what happened to you on a number of occasions, please tell us a little bit 

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about yourself, your husband, your children. We would like to be able to place you.

MRS KOKI: I am Mamkgele Roselyn Koki from Schweizer-Reneke, I am a nurse at the local hospital for a period of 25 years now. I had four children, three boys and one girl. My husband passed away.

PROF MEIRING: When did your husband pass away?

MRS KOKI: He passed away last year on the 4th of April. 

PROF MEIRING: Thank you so much. Mrs Koki, you have a number of things to tell us about your assaults, about your arrest, about the petrol-bombing of your house and the murder of your son. Those are very, very heavy things you are putting on the table, but please, in your own words, tell us what happened to you on all those occasions.

MRS KOKI: One morning as I was on my night duty - I can't remember the year very well, but I have it written it down somewhere. It was in the morning, I was on my way home and in the township people were busy erecting their shacks. I went home and my sister came to see me, and she said are you sleeping. I said yes, I want to take a nap, because I am working night duty. She said to me no, let's leave, let's go and erect ourselves a shack. I said well, let me take off my uniform, and I did. I left with her. On our way I got into one house and I took one corrugated iron and when I came back for another corrugated iron, I found it was too heavy for me. I requested another girl to help me carry this corrugated iron to the site where we were about to build. I was not aware that Hippos were approaching us, four in number, and four bakkies and one Casspir. This girl dropped the corrugated iron and she fled. I decided to stand still.

&#9;The Hippos approached. The children were taking 

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different directions, running away. A policeman came to me and as he was pointing, I thought that he was pointing at the children running away. It was Mr Van der Venter, he was pointing at me. This man hit me with the back of the gun on my chest and I grabbed his gun and we were fighting for this gun. Then he managed to pull it out of my hands and he hit me on my face. The second time I got hold of the gun. As we were fighting he fell. He was the special commander. Then he quickly stood up and he kicked me.

&#9;Mr Jerry Minya came and he said please, do not kick her. He said she doesn't want to get into the van. I said to him no, I do not want, I am not refusing to get into the van, this man just hit me with the back of the gun and he kicked me, and I asked him will my husband go and hit his wife as he is doing to me. He didn't give an answer. 

&#9;They put me into the van. They drove off to the police station. I was alone. I was put in a cell and in that cell I must tell you, it was a very small cell. The floors were full of water. I was locked in. Because I was tired I slept. At about five o'clock I heard that footsteps were approaching and these people opened my cell. About 50 or 200 people were all stuffed in that cell. We spent the Saturday evening in that cell. Saturday morning Mahatang, who was the councillor said, I am requesting all of you people to stop politics, politicis doesn't pay. He said I will negotiate on your behalf and then you will go. Other women agreed, they said yes. She said if you pay R100,00 you will be released. I asked as to why we have to pay this money. She said no, it is a fine and you have to be released. I said if you want to take me to court, take me, I want to know what wrong have I done. These women paid the R100,00 

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fines and left. I spent the whole weekend in the cell.

&#9;We were not eating, we were not drinking water, we were - and we were women, you know. Since I wore that same underwear, I spent Friday, Saturday and Sunday with the same underwear.

&#9;A White group of boers came with their girlfriends. They were making a mockery of us. I said to them guys, I have pains now. They said why don't you go and get Wesley Makopane and Boys Mpimpi, because these are the people who instruct you to misbehave. I said to them do you know a doctor called Mpimpi or Makopane. They switched off the lights and they locked the cell. I climbed over the toilet top and I lit the room. They came back when they saw the light. They said who switched on the light. I said to them guys, it is cold here and it is dark and we are sleeping on the cement, we want the light. They switched off the light. They went out. I switched it on again. I said to these women if this boer a third time, I am going to pull him in, he must spend the night with us here, because we are getting cold. He didn't come back.

&#9;On Sunday Mahatang came and said these people must pay the R100,00, and I refused. Monday morning, our lawyer was Richard Spoole. They phoned Richard Spoole and we went to court and we were given bail. 

&#9;I went to see the doctor. My teeth were loose, my chest was sore, my ribs were aching and the cement that I slept on, also affected me. I went to Dr Gayi. He examined me and he gave me an injection and that is Voltaren and he gave me a letter. He said take this form back to the police station.

&#9;I went the same Monday, I went to the police station. KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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The yard at the police station were full of boers. They didn't even want me to gain access into the yard. One of them grabbed the form I held in my hands and tore it up and threw it away. I went out.

&#9;The next morning I went to Dr Ollenwag, he is the dentist. He pulled out the upper teeth. I was called the other day and I appeared before the court of law. I was told that the case was dropped. That was the end of it. Nobody took an initiative to enquire as to why the case is suddenly dropped. Not even one of them came to me to ask me how do I feel about the case that has been dropped. I was fighting for the freedom of the people. Everything ended so abruptly.

&#9;It was a Friday, if I remember well, my boy said to me Mom, I am leaving this area. It was Friday morning. He said I want to go and see Buthi in Johannesburg, I want to ask him to help me find a job. He left. His name is Thomas.

&#9;Sunday morning police were looking, they were surrounding my house. I peeped through the window, I saw a lot of people and their vans. I opened the door. When I opened the door three of the policemen got into the house; David Motingwe and the other one, a White person called Lotter and they asked my husband can we search your house. He said to them what do you want, why do you have to search. They said we want Thomas. He said Thomas is not here, why do you want him. They said he is a suspect, there is an Inkatha person who has been killed. My husband asked when was he killed. They said he was killed on Friday evening, he was discovered Saturday morning. He said to them he left Friday morning for Johannesburg, if he calls I will tell him KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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that you want him, he should come down. He allowed them to search the house. After that they went out and left.

&#9;God helped us, oh, Lord, on Monday Thomas called. I asked him Thomas, where are you calling from. He said I am at the public telephone, I am looking for a job. I said to him please, come down, the police are looking for you. He said why? I said no, there is a dead man from the Inkatha organisation and you are a suspect. He said I am on my way. &#9;Monday afternoon he was at home. I said to him go straight to the police station. He went to the police station. The police were so humiliating. I respected them. I searched for my son where he was, I even said to him he should go to the police station. Instead of appreciating that, they just took him to the cells.

&#9;At about seven o'clock I called Boy, Boy, I don't know what happened to Thomas, he was here, but he has never come back. He came back and he was in the cell. 

&#9;A week went by. Monday morning I was at work. I saw the police coming and I was at the corridor and one of them he said to me Rosy, I want to speak to you. I asked him what is "spreek", because it was an Afrikaans word. The Black person said he wants to speak to you. I said okay, that's fine. He said we are here to pick you up. Why? He said we are going to arrest you. I said why? They said no, we are arresting you about the matter of Paul. Who is Paul? Paul is the person who has been killed. I said to them I am not going to leave this area without the permission of my matron. He said we spoke to a White matron and she gave the permission for you to leave. I said to them listen here, I am under the guidance of a Black matron, speak to her and then I will go. I said why don't you behave? You have

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been to a White person, because she is White and then you listen to her. You know, they just took me in my uniform and our way I was told to take my hands out of my pockets. I said to them it is cold and I am getting really cold. He said you are - and he insulted me. I said to him why do you have to insult me. They took me to the police station. It was about nine o'clock.

&#9;He said to me on our arrival you are going to tell the truth. I didn't know what "waarheid" was, because it was Afrikaans. I was just shocked. He said Thomas killed this boy. I said to him I am not going to tell you that they killed him or they did not kill him. I am not alone in their company wherever they go. This other one said take this stubborn person away and I was put into this cell filled with water. You know, at the corner, very unacceptable things were there. I spent four hours in that cell. I was released and I was told that I was going to tell the truth. It was five o'clock. I went to the court of the law and the prosecutor said no, put her back into the cell, she will be transferred to Wolmaransstad. They said uniform - I said listen here, this is my uniform, whether I die in the cells, this is my uniform. 

&#9;On Thursday, they took me to Wolmaransstad. I spent that day in Wolmaransstad. For a month I was in the cells. We went to the court every day and Richard Spoole said they want a R1 000,00 bail. That was organised and I was released.&#9;I went back three or four times. I was told that the case was dropped and my R1 000,00 was brought back. 

&#9;A few days after I was released from the cells, an Uno drove past, it was white in colour. Inside it was Mr Sibeya, Mr Khoza and another boy called Umbigha. I was at the

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kitchen window. It was just passing next to the fence, and Ompie was pointing at me. I thought he was indicating to the people who I was. I also pointed my finger at them. They drove off.

&#9;In the afternoon I was with my husband and the last born, and I said you know, I wish I could drink tea, I have been in the cells and I didn't get tea. You know, I felt a bit sleepy and my husband left me to go to sleep. I was still watching TV. I went to sleep. My child came back and I said no, I will see the tea tomorrow, let's go to sleep.

&#9; It was one minute to twelve, I think, I went into the bathroom. When I got out of the toilet, just before I could get into bed, everything was just terrible. My husband said they threw a stone into the house. I said no, this was not a stone. He said it is a bomb. I said no ways. He said let's go outside. I said no ways, I am not going outside, this is my house, these boers are not going to see my corpse. My husband persuaded me to get out of the house. He ran outside and I went into the dining room and I sat there. He said my wife, you are burning, please get out of the house. I said to him I am not going anywhere, this is my house. Within a few minutes the police were there and they said get out. There was this one policeman called Lubbe from Lichtenburg. He said get out. I said no, I am not going. He said listen, they have planted the other one. I said listen here, don't tell me they have planted, tell me that you have planted the other one. I told them about the car that I saw. He said to me those people are very well-behaved, they can't do anything, let us go to that house, I will show you that they are well-behaved people.

&#9;You know, he just left. I don't know how and he helped

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those people to escape. I was in the house and we were investigating and I was told that this is a land-mine. There was a cigarette lighter at a distance. Now this person who lit this land-mine must have dropped his cigarette lighter there, but the police didn't tell me what object was. That was the end of it.

&#9;My son, Thomas, was still in jail, and when the boers left I said to them listen here, Mr station commander, haven't you heard anything about my son, Thomas. He said no, as soon as we get information we will tell you. I went to town, I bought new panes to repair my house. I spent 

R5 000,00 for those panes. 

&#9;My son was released and he went to court. Richard Spoole negotiated on their behalf to get bail and it was 

R2 500,00. They were told that they will be under house arrest. 

&#9;One Friday my son washed himself. He dressed himself neatly and he said I am going away, but I am not going to be too long, I will be back within a few minutes. Hardly ten minutes after he left the house - on Thursday they had been to court. The last words, he asked the magistrate, he said listen, I am under house arrest and four days left before the elections, I want to take part in the elections, will the court send somebody special to help me vote at home, because I want to vote. He was not given an answer. The court was quiet, no answer was given to my son.

&#9;On Friday, he left and the message I got was Thomas had been shot. I thought he was shot in the leg. This other child - when I got there, I was told he has been taken to hospital. When we got to the hospital, he was on the stretcher. Where are you taking him to? No, he is heading 

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for the mortuary. One of the station commanders told me we have arrested the perpetrator, he is in the cell. I said to him all right. Mr station commander was lying. This Kassie was taken to Potchefstroom for hiding and I was asked where is Ghazu. I said no, Ghazu is in jail. They said no, the station commander was lying, he has been taken to Potchefstroom. I talked to the station commander the next day. I said to him shall I come and see this man you have arrested. He said no ways. 

&#9;My leaders were turning their backs against me. Nobody. They forgot taht I was involved in the struggle. They forgot that I sacrificed. They forgot that I sacrificed even with my house. My husband was attacked by severe heart attacks after the bombing of my house, until he died. People who I was involved with, people who were together with me in this jam forgot about me. I was together with my husband. Eight months thereafter he passed away, because of the heart attack. 

&#9;I had to battle another turn, because of the finance. No member of the ANC was coming to my house. Not even one of them came to enquire as to what kind of assistance do I need. They forgot even to help me bury my son, because Thomas was no more. 

&#9;One day I was called to the court of law. I was told to attend the court proceedings. I went to court at eight o'clock. I was now impatient, and I said to them I have been here since eight o'clock but I do not get anything, any information. The magistrate referred me to Thandi and he said Thandi will explain everything to me. Thandi was shocked, because she said to me I am not a person to convey the message to you. I have got your file in my file and they

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have written in that file that your case has been dropped and nobody is responsible. There was no court case. I was told not to come and pester them any more about the proceedings of the case. I kept quiet and I went back home.

&#9;People from the ANC pulled themselves out. The women's league left me. They turned their backs against me. I was left with my husband, with my relatives, they were doing everything for me. My ANC, the ANC at Schweizer-Reneke disappointed me. Together with their leaders. I want to say this today. Today we are talking about reconciliation, but what happened to me - I am not here to give pleasure to the listeners here. I am here to speak on my behalf. I don't believe I will forgive me. I am still feeling this pain in me. I was never given any help. Every time when there was a problem they would go to my house. We have struggled. 

&#9;We have moved people to stay at Slovo squatter camp. I request the Premier to go and have a look at that squatter camp. People really remember the porridge that they used to eat in the farm areas where they were really battling. It is just nepotism that is taking place in the ANC at our area. Only a certain sector of people is meant to be successful. People go to taverns and they drink in the shebeens and they say they won't pay anything. I want to thank you.

PROF MEIRING: Mrs Koki, thank you for your story. It is a harrowing tale that you told us. May we ask a number of questions, just to clarify and then we will be able to let you go.

&#9;If we go back right to the beginning. You said that you were a member of the ANC. It seems to me that you were very prominent, in a leadership position in the women's league in KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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the ANC. Is that correct?

MRS KOKI: Yes, that is true.

PROF MEIRING: Now just - I have made a number of notes. You said that you were initially arrested because of your help in the swuatter camp. I didn't hear very well, were you building a house for yourself or for somebody else?

MRS KOKI: I have my own house, but because people were suffering, and seeing that one yard was occupied by twelve shacks with one toilet, I realised that that open area was useless, and I realised that I have to leave my house and go and help these people who are homeless. That is why I went to help.

PROF MEIRING: I imagine that when the policeman came and he hit you with the gun, there was quite a scuffle and that was the reason why you were injured. Your teeth were broken loose, but did you refuse arrest or were you only trying to protect yourself?

MRS KOKI: I was trying to defend myself. This is a very heavily built man, hitting me with the butt of the gun on the chest. I am a woman and he is a man. Even our fight was useless, because I was telling him you are killing me, Sir, you are just killing me.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you. And if we turn a few pages and we come to the moment when your son was arrested for allegedly killing this Inkatha man, is there a strong Inkatha presence in the township? Was there tension between the ANC and Inkatha?

MRS KOKI: Our ANC group was very strong. Inkatha members were about ten. Yes, our group was very strong. It was a fight between the ANC and the Inkatha.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you. There is another thing I want to 

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clarify. After you left prison, after you left the cells, you went back to your home, and then the house was bombed, as you told us. Why did they bomb the house? Was that to intimidate you or to scare you?

MRS KOKI: I was also shocked as to why was my house bombed, because my son was not even present at home. In other words, these people were killing me. Because their suspect was now in jail. I was told to pay the R1 000,00 bail. I paid it and they brought it back. In other words, they were targeting me.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you. Then a last question from my side before I hand you over to my colleages. Did I hear correctly that your son was probably killed because he wanted to go and vote, that it was because he left the house in order to go and vote that he was killed?

MRS KOKI: Can you please repeat your question?

PROF MEIRING: If I heard correctly, you said that your son wanted the magistrate, the person in the office to allow him to go out from his house arrest position to go and vote, and it was not allowed?

MRS KOKI: They didn't give him an answer, not even the magistrate. He requested them to send him a person so that he can vote at home, but no answer was given.

PROF MEIRING: Did he leave the house in any way, to vote?

MRS KOKI: That is correct.

PROF MEIRING: And then he was killed?

MRS KOKI: Yes.

PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.

MRS KOKI: He was shot. If he had been given an answer I would have been satisfied. Thomas was a hero. He was a future leader. The Schweizer-Reneke community was proud

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of my son. Everything that he was doing, he was doing it in the name of freedom, but this was shattered in a minute.

PROF MEIRING: Those are the questions that I wanted to ask. But I am sure that my colleagues would like to add a question or two from their own side.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Manthata?

MR MANTHATA: Mrs Koki, how did it come about that the ANC left you?

MRS KOKI: Just after the death of my son the ANC turned its back against me. They withdrew themselves from my family, the family they used to visit.

MR MANTHATA: Was your son the leader of the youth or was he a member of the ANC Youth League?

MRS KOKI: He was a member of COSAS.

MR MANTHATA: When he was arrested, was he alone or was he together with other members of COSAS?

MRS KOKI: I sent him to the police station as to enquire why did they want him. Instead of giving him information they arrested him. Two days thereafter they took Boyes and Sipuma and afterwards many of them were arrested. I think about eight of them.

MR MANTHATA: My question is: after his death, what did his friends say?

MRS KOKI: Two of them who used to be in his company are still paying me visits, but the rest of them are gone. I am just stinking, they don't want to come close to me at all. They will never bring him back. I am not saying they are responsible, but where is the love, where is that love, the first love. 

MR MANTHATA: I understand ma'am, it is very painful. Were there no conflicts between COSAS members? In those years we 

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used to know that or we used to hear about informers or spies. Didn't you come across such a situation maybe?

MRS KOKI: Not at all, no, not at all, and I have never heard anything about informers and spies. And on the very same day of his killing we were friends. But the last day I am telling you, it was still clear, and he wasn't maybe perceived as a sell-out or anything.

MR MANTHATA: This Richard Spoole that offered you some help, what happened.

MRS KOKI: My case was dropped and I was discharged and that is when I rested.

MR MANTHATA: At the time you departed from the ANC, was Richard Spoole present to be of assistance between yourself and the ANC?

MRS KOKI: One time I called Richard Spoole, telling him about my problems, and he said to me I am no longer in the Gauteng area, I am in Mafekeng, please talk to the people around you. I said to him Richard, these people have turned their backs against me. I gave him a telephone call three or four times and until I gave up hope and I said to myself God is there, I buried my son, I repaired my house and I buried my husband, but nobody gave me any kind of help. The people of the ANC made me suffer most. They were now really making me suffer.

MR MANTHATA: You were talking about Slovo squatter camp. The people who were staying at Slovo squatter camp, how did they regard you? 

MRS KOKI: No, we were working closely with them and even if we are together we discuss about this incident, it is so exciting. It is painful because when we meet we start to discuss, but they tell me how we suffer, you were helping

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us, but now we are suffering. We are suffering now. Even if there is work, but it is given to those people who belong to the family members of the staff. They forget that we have taken these people from the farms. We just talk with them peacefully, there is no problem.

MR MANTHATA: Apart from your severed relationship with the ANC and that even Slovo people are still supporting you, in the village, who are those who are supportive of you? Let me make it simple. In the church, around your area, what kind of member are you?

MRS KOKI: Do you mean what kind of a person am I within the community? 

MR MANTHATA: In the community it seems you have severed your relationship. Is that true? Have you severed your relationship with the people who are ANC leaders? Do we understand each other? My question is, have you severed your relationship with the ANC? And it seems that you are at a stage where the relationship is irrevocable.

MRS KOKI: That is true. 

MR MANTHATA: That is why I am saying you don't get support from even among the churches, within your own community?

MRS KOKI: Within the churches I have support and I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church, and those are the people, even after the funeral of my son and my husband, those are the people who come to my house frequently. There are two people from Kathrada or Slovo, they would come to comfort me. The faces which I was used to, I don't want to tell lies.

MR MANTHATA: But that is why I am asking that those church people, didn't they hear the problem between yourself and the ANC and try to bring reconciliation between you and the 

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ANC?

MRS KOKI: I understand you now. These people tried when they see what is happening. You would see that one section of the ANC is no more the same as before. Then you ask yourself why did it come to be that way. This ANC has two sections within Schweizer-Reneke.

MR MANTHATA: I don't understand? 

MRS KOKI: There is the true ANC and the false ANC, because there are two sections of the ANC. These two sections, the other section, they do things which we don't understand. It is this section which used to use my child and use me, but they have severed relationships with me. But this other section, they are very nepotic. There is food, there is money, one day your child will stand throughout the day and this family which will distribute to these children, it will take a team. I am on the way, because I see what is happening. I used to open a tin of fish and they take the liquid of the soup and mix it with something greenish and then they give it to these children. Then they take the real food and take it to their homes.

MR MANTHATA: I was asking you in this way because I could see that you are emotional now. We as a Commission we try very hard that this kind of emotions which could destroy a person, then we try that we should understand your emotions so as to bring your feelings to be normal, so that you should be a good member of the community and to help the citizens. I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Ma'am, I just want to ask a few questions as well. But I think, as the Chairperson, I would be failing in my duty if I didn't actually explain a little about what our task is. I think we must understand that the Human Rights

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Violations Committee to which you are now telling your story, has a brief. The brief goes from 1960 to December 1993. I think it is very important for people to know that. The brief also is to look at human rights violations, in terms of killings, abductions, torture or severe ill-treatment. I want to actually try and pose my questions within that context to clarify what has happened to you.

&#9;Mr Manthata has already said that you are a very angry lady and I hope that we will be able to deal with this anger afterwards. But there are real things that have happened to you and we want to understand those things. If you please don't take offence at what I am saying, because I want us to understand what actually happened to you. 

&#9;I want to go back to the first incident in 1990 when you were helping people put up a home. In that incident when Capt Van der Venter assaulted you, were there other people who were assaulted as well, or were you assaulted only because you were a prominent member of the ANC Women's League at that time?

MRS KOKI: All people who were arrested were beaten. Those people who were arrested with me in the cell, were beaten.

CHAIRPERSON: So there were many people who were beaten?

MRS KOKI: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: And were the arrests because you were occupying illegal land? Am I right in understanding that?

MRS KOKI: Yes, that is true.

CHAIRPERSON: My second question relates to the arrest of your son. You say that it was in connection with the death of an IFP member. I think Prof Piet Meiring asked you earlier on, you said there were about ten Inkatha members. Now yesterday when we asked somebody else about a similar

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situation they said they were talking about Inkatha as a vigilante grouping, a group of people who were just against the ANC, not Inkatha as we understand the Inkatha Freedom Party. In Schweizer-Reneke what was actually happening, these Inkatha people that you talk about, were they a vigilante group or were they members of the Inkatha Freedom Party? I think that is very important.

MRS KOKI: It is true what you are saying. There was no Inkatha. This Inkatha were taken from people outside. They were taking boys from Stilfontein. These youngs boys would call themselves Inkatha. They were trying to make maybe a vigilante group, but truly, it was not a true reflection of Inkatha. Because we were afraid of Inkatha, when we heard the word Inkatha, we were frightened. So we used to call them Inkatha, because they called themselves Inkatha.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. My last question, sorry two more questions. You mentioned before your house was bombed, that a Mr Sibiya and a Mr Khoza and I think you said Umpinyang, came to your house and they were pointing to your house. Now who are these gentlemen?

MRS KOKI: Mr Sibiya is staying in our area, who has taken these people from outside and wanted to form this Inkatha. This person who was in the car, Themba Khoza, he was in the car. Then the other person, I knew Themba Khoza and I didn't know the other one, and then Umpinyang and Mr Sibiya, there were four in this Uno car. When they were pointing at me, I thought, because I was in jail, he saying this person was the one who was in jail. That was my opinion. Then it was the same night when my house was bombed.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mamkgele, I want us to be very, very clear here. You are - are you sure when you say Mr Themba Khoza, 

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are you referring to which Mr Themba Khoza? The Themba Khoza that you are referring to, is he someone who stayed in Ipelegeng or is he - are you referring to the Themba Khoza who is a member of the Inkatha Freedom Party?

MRS KOKI: It is not Themba Khoza from Schweizer-Reneke, it is the same Themba Khoza whom we know. It was the person who was in that Uno. It was the person who was in the Uno on that day in that afternoon, when Sibiya was pointing at me with a finger. This Mr Khoza was in the car in that Uno.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibiya is still saying in Schweizer-Reneke.

MRS KOKI: That is true.

CHAIRPERSON: And this other person, the third person?

MRS KOKI: In Schweizer-Reneke.

CHAIRPERSON: In Schweizer-Reneke. So again, sorry, I just want to clarify this. If Mr Themba Khoza was there, you are saying there was some relationship between the Inkatha who was a vigilante grouping in Schweizer-Reneke and the Inkatha Freedom Party?

MRS KOKI: That's true, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, ma'am. My last question is related to the death of your son. Which - you say he died in 1994, which month was it that he died?

MRS KOKI: It was on the 17th of April.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Is there something else you want to tell us?

MRS KOKI: I am through, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Manthata?

MR MANTHATA: In regard to your child's death, as Dr Randera was trying to say, is that it is not something which falls within the ambit of the period of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Those things which have happened KLERKSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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in 1994 don't follow within the period of this Truth and Reconciliation Commission. When we meet with the Human Rights Commission, maybe they will try to take your case, which they will take the case to where the Human Rights Commission. I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Mamkgele, I thank you for coming all the way from Schweizer-Reneke. Your life, as you say in your own statement has been shattered in the last six years, and I can understand, having listened to you today, that there are many strands to what has happened to you in the last six years. We have noted very carefully what you have said to us. We have listened very carefully and we will certainly come back to you in terms of whatever assistance the Commission can provide to you. I thank you very much for coming today.

MRS KOKI: I thank you, Sir.

 

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