&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 28.11.96&#9;NAME: DUKAKILE AGNES MATHEBULA

CASE: TEMBISA - DAY 3

__________________________________________________________

DUKAKILE AGNES MATHEBULA: (sworn states)

MR LEWIN: Thank you. I would Joyce Seroke please to lead your evidence.

MS SEROKE: We greet you Agnes. Can you introduce the people that are accompanying you?

MS MATHEBULA: This is my sister and my son.

MS SEROKE: We welcome them as well. You have come to tell us about the death of your husband who was shot on the 25th of June 1993. Can you tell us the situation that was prevailing at that time and what led to his death?

MS MATHEBULA: I don't know whether you will allow me to start right at the beginning until to the incident of his death.

MS SEROKE: Yes you may.

MS MATHEBULA: In 1988 whilst we were at home my husband was at work and he came back at 5:20. He left a paper and said that he's going to his brother's place and I remained at home with the children. At 6.:30 a lady and a gentleman arrived and they were enquiring about somebody that I didn't know. At 5:45 as the child went out my child said come and see there is so many taxis going by. But I realised that they had already gone around the corner and there were some that were parked on the third house from ours. 

&#9;They were enquiring about this third house where the taxis were, and they wanted to know whose house was that? I told them this is Mathebula's house. They came and they 

TEMBISA HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;2&#9;MATHEBULA

called the other lot and said this is the house we are looking for. I was carrying the child and they said I must not move. They said you are going to go with me to the house and they did that and I went to the bedroom. They lifted the bed and they were carrying firearms. They searched the wardrobes and in the children's room. They found nothing. Even outside there were people all over. They said that we must finish the job that we came here for today, where is your husband? I said I didn't know where he is. They said we must find him by tonight. Has he gone to a meeting? I said no, not to a meeting, he's gone to his brother's place.

&#9;Some left and some remained. They brought him into the house and the let him sit down in the house, then they wanted to know how do I know Mathebula. I said I know Mathebula he deals with milk. This man he sat down and he we were waiting for my husband. They came back with Mr Mkosa, they let him sit down as well, and they said that we must wait here until he comes back. 

&#9;They stayed there for some time and this man said he was going to work nightshift, Mr Khosa. When he wanted to go they refused to release him. They said that they won't do that until Mathebula comes back. They sat there from 6 o'clock until 12 o'clock at night. At about 11:45 a telephone call came through at my neighbour's house. When I went to respond to this telephone call I was accompanied by five people. Somebody asked me who are those policemen? They answered, they said they are allowed by the law to do whatever they want to do. They wanted to know how did I know that they are policemen, I said I don't know as well. They said you sit here and eat, we won't leave until we find TEMBISA HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;3&#9;MATHEBULA

this man. We sat there but they didn't find him

&#9;At about 12 o'clock some left and brought Mr Mahlangu who is a mayor presently and they asked me whether do I know him? I did not know. They decided that they must finish off with this man, but the others didn't agree with that. They said no, not this man but the man that we came to look for. 

&#9;When they left I wanted the proof that they are policemen, how will I know? A young man of the Lord moved and he showed me a card and waved it at me and said you will never see us anywhere. And they said that we must finish this job within these two nights.

&#9;My husband never slept at home and he phoned in the morning and he told me that he is escaping, he is going into exile. He stayed there for a week until he went into exile, and he came back in 1993. 

&#9;It was in 1992 when he came back. There was IFP and ANC violence at that time, and he was requested to come back and work wherever he was working before and he worked for two months. Around about the 23rd of June 1993 whilst we were sitting at home with him and the children at about 6 o'clock there were gunshots all the time. At about 6:30 the shots were coming nearer our house. A young man who was a member of the MK said we must leave because these gunshots are nearing our house. Two of them escorted us to run away from the house. When I got to my sister's place they left me at the gate. At 12 o'clock there was going to be Dingaan Thobela's boxing fight and we watched this boxing at my sister's place. 

&#9;After this he said we must go back home. We did that but although we did not agree with this because I did not 

TEMBISA HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;4&#9;MATHEBULA

trust because these people might still be shooting there. We were five in total. When we got at home they said I must put the light on but I told them no, this house is on fire. And when we got there it was burnt down already. We saw opposite Vusumuzi Hostel there was a casper that was standing there and I decided I am going to run away because I don't trust these people. We left everything as is. 

&#9;The following morning we came to Rabasotho and we went with the one casper and they examined how serious the damage was. We could not stay in the house and stayed in my sister's house instead. 

&#9;On Sunday there was still a fight and shooting. On Monday he was going with this one gentleman who was doing a temporary job at the same work where he was working and they left round about 6 o'clock in the morning. I was at my sister's house since then because I could not go back to my house. Round about 8 o'clock I thought I should try and see if there is anything I could find, some clothing in the house because the children were not there. 

&#9;Round about 9 o'clock there were some people calling out from IFP, from Vusumuzi, they said come and take him because we finished him off. I couldn't believe them because I knew that he was at work. I went to the neighbours and I stood outside for an hour at my sister's place and I saw three ladies coming running towards me and they found me still standing there at the gate. They just burst out in tears. I wanted them to tell me what happened.&#9;They were still crying these ladies.

&#9;They told me that a telephone call went through in Tombeka at his parents place that they have killed him already. They had bombed the house and there was still 

TEMBISA HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;5&#9;MATHEBULA

shooting and they decided that we should rather walk to my house and there were neighbours who were there already. But these ladies did not agree that we should go to the house because we would be shot. We remained at my sister's house instead. 

&#9;My employer they have already sent a vehicle to come and fetch me. We left with this vehicle. We found him lying on the ground and the one that he was shot with was already taken to hospital. That's how far the story goes about his death. I knew that he was killed by the IFP.

MS SEROKE: Agnes you have started the story from 1988. At that time where was your husband working?

MS MATHEBULA: He was working in the committee for the community.

MS SEROKE: Was he a member of a political organisation?

MS MATHEBULA: Yes he was an ANC member.

MS SEROKE: At that time when he was a member of the community committee what was he doing and how was the situation in Tembisa at that time?

MS MATHEBULA: At that time a lot of things were happening in Tembisa. There were these political rivals. It wasn't clear whether we were fighting against the IFP or any other organisation 

MS SEROKE: His work as a community worker what was he doing?

MS MATHEBULA: I will say that at that time the police were looking for him. I think someone has betrayed him because these police used to come and harass me and when he went to exile they used to come to me and say what would you say if your husband was taken by another woman, never come back home? And I said it won't matter maybe he will come back. TEMBISA HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;6&#9;MATHEBULA

On another day they came they found my son, they beat him in the house, there was a R100,00 on the table and they took the R100,00. They used to come often and they said we must go to Spartan. It was Mloto, Twale, Engelbrecht and Borman. I asked why do you have to go to Spartan? Aren't you looking for the person you're looking for, are you looking for me? They said we want to help you because your husband has disappeared. I told them I never asked for help from you. They wanted to beat me. I get into the bedroom and I took out my lawyers card. I told them to call my lawyer and they asked why do you have to call a lawyer, why don't you call your local police? Unfortunately I never worked with the police because my husband used to leave my house because police were coming, they said they were police. 

MS SEROKE: At the time when Mr Mathebula skipped the country to Uganda, did he write letters to you?

MS MATHEBULA: No he didn't.

MS SEROKE: But how did you hear that he was in Uganda?

MS MATHEBULA: He stayed for some time without writing. Later at some time some people came with a letter and he told us that he's in Uganda.

MS SEROKE: Did he tell you exactly what he was doing in Uganda? Was he studying?

MS MATHEBULA: He didn't explain. He just explained in the letter that he's still busy and he will come back if things are all right.

MS SEROKE: When he came back to the country what did he do?

MS MATHEBULA: When he came back he was an MK member. He went back to his work and he worked for about three months. 

MS SEROKE: When he came back what was his role in the 

TEMBISA HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;7&#9;MATHEBULA

community?

MS MATHEBULA: He was an ANC member.

MS SEROKE: Were they trying to cool down the fire?

MS MATHEBULA: Yes they were trying. He was a peaceful man and he used to encourage people to resolve matters peacefully.

MS SEROKE: Are there some people who witnessed his shooting?

MS MATHEBULA: The people who saw this incident - I won't explain very well because I tried to look this young man who was with him but I couldn't find him.

MS SEROKE: Is he in Tembisa?

MS MATHEBULA: No they say he is in Bloemfontein and he's working there.

MS SEROKE: If you can find his address can you please give it to us because we might try to contact him. After your house was burnt and your husband was killed did you open a case?

MS MATHEBULA: We opened a case. It was that he was shot because the other one had survived. When we went to Kempton Park this young man told us that he saw the person who shot him driving a car. The police said he will take him together with me and look for this man. This young man said he is afraid to go and point him because it won't be safe because this person was staying at Vusumuzi. They said this man was Sithole. But he was afraid to go and point him. And he also saw the car he was driving in. I don't if there is this procedure like if there is parade where you can identify someone and we agreed that there would be an identity parade. 

MS SEROKE: Did you have a lawyer in your case?

TEMBISA HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

&#9;8&#9;MATHEBULA

MS MATHEBULA: No.

MR LEWIN: Ms Mathebula I would like to thank you very much for coming. We will as a Commission follow up on the details that you have given, the information that you have given and on two levels I think, both in terms of the police that you have mentioned, these are names that have been repeated through the testimony of yourself and other people. We will also try and find out what we can. We will follow up on the friend's name that you mentioned, and make an appeal. This is Mr Eezyboy is it that you mentioned?

MS MATHEBULA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: From Bloemfontein. Follow up on that. If there is any way that he might hear this testimony let us make that appeal. Or if there are other people who might have evidence, who might have information please to come forward. I think in your case there is a particular irony about the pain and the loss that you have suffered, in that here is your husband who was an activist, who was forced to leave the country, and come back at a time when we were all getting ready for the first democratic election, getting ready for what everyone had fought for. So the pain and the sense of loss must be particularly much greater in your case. 

&#9;We feel very strongly with you in that and offer your strength, offer you hope. The fact that you have come today is a very important step for you in bringing out this particular story. I would like to thank you very much for that and also thank your family for coming. Thank you very much.

&#9;------------------

