&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 03.09.96 &#9;&#9;NAME: JOHANNES FREDERIK VAN ECK

CASE: 0707 - NELSPRUIT

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CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much indeed for leading us. In a moment or two we will call the first witness and when that person is called they will come up and sit at the table and one of the staff of the Commission will sit with that person and that person is there in order to give support, solidarity and comfort to the witness, the victim/survivor who will be telling that story. I want to say that this is not a court of law, but it is a Commission that has been appointed by the President of our country and by the parliament of South Africa and therefore there two things we should bear in mind. First this is not a political rally, this is a place of hearing. Second, we should conduct ourselves with dignity and a sense of being in the presence of people who have suffered. I want to ask those of you who have cell phones to make quite sure that they are switched off so that that dignity can be maintained. I also want to tell you that no smoking is permitted in the hall and I will be grateful if you'd accept that as the procedure throughout the day. So please do not disrupt the proceedings, we want this to proceed as calmly and as dignified as possible.

&#9;Together with me today is the panel that will hear and make findings regarding the stories told by the witnesses, and I'd like to introduce them now.

&#9;On my immediate left Ms Hlengiwe Mkhize, who is a commissioner but is also the chairperson of the Reparation and Rehabilitation Committee of the Commission. On my far

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right is Mr Hugh Lewin, who is a committee member and a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee and is based in Gauteng as is Ms Mkhize. Immediately next to me is Ms Yasmin Sooka who is deputy chairperson of the Human Rights Violations Committee and the commissioner and also resides in Gauteng. My name is Alec Boraine, I'm the deputy chairperson of the Commission and I'm very delighted to be here for today.

&#9;Unfortunately, the demands of our work take Archbishop Tutu and myself all over the country so we can't always be present for every hearing. I will be here for the full day and will chair the proceedings.

&#9;Now I'm quite sure that there are a number of people who whose names should be mentioned during the course of the day who are dignitaries in this part of the world. If there members of the staff who know of those names, perhaps they could give them to us as we proceed.

&#9;Now I want to explain that we can only hear a number of people in the four days that we are here but we have received statements from many more, and every statement, whether that person is heard publicly or is not heard, receives exactly the same attention and the same care. These are the names that will be placed in our final report and presented to President Mandela, which is required of us. So what you will hear today are only a few of the people who have already made statements to us.

&#9;Now before I call the first witness, may I just explain that some of you will have these earphones and you will find that there are various numbers, and if you do not understand the language that is being used, you can switch to the language that you can understand, so I hope you will make NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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use of this when you think it is necessary, some of you 

probably won't have to use it at all. May I say , please do not take these away with you, they are no good to you whatsoever, they have to be charged again for tomorrow, so if you do leave, please just leave them on the seat so that we can make use of them during the day and of course in the succeeding days. 

&#9;Now I call the first witness, Johannes Frederick van Eck. Will you please come? Mr van Eck, on behalf of the Commission I'd like to extend to you a very warm welcome. It's never easy being first at the start of the day but I'm quite sure that you have thought very carefully about today and our thoughts go out to you. The story that you have to tell is a very very sad and horrifying story. We want to listen very very carefully, we hope that you will feel comfortable and relaxed and obviously you will use the language of your own choice. I'm going to hand over now to my colleague Yasmin Sooka for the taking of the oath and the assistance to you as you tell your story. Once again, jy is baie baie welkom. 

JOHANNES FREDERICK VAN ECK: ( sworn states)

MS SOOKA:&#9; Mr van Eck can you tell us a bit about yourself and of what happened on that day?

MR VAN ECK: Mr Chairman I'm here today to talk about what happened on the 16th of December 1985, on the farm Klerkshoop in the district of Messina. Mr Chairman, the result thereof of this landmine where I was also involved, four children that died and their ages range from three to nine years. Two women, they also died at the same time and four persons were wounded. One kid was not injured and one woman died immediately thereafter because of this bomb 

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blast. 

&#9;From the newspapers of Monday the 16th 1985, the ANC did take responsibility of this incident by a person who is actually their mouthpiece, Mr Tom Sabena. The news on the 5th of May 1980, two people, Mr Ncube and Madula, they were charged with killing. I had to attend this very case.

&#9;On the first of March, 1991, the following people appeared before the court of law. The other one was actually sentenced to 21 years sentence and thereafter they were released. On the 18th of December, 1993, the Newspapers told us that Mr Ncube got an award for being a hero, which actually took place in a meeting in Soweto. And it was awarded to him by Mr Nelson Mandela. This award took place on the 16th of December 1983.

&#9;I'm expecting from the ANC, through this Commission, to answer the following questions:

&#9;&#9;Is it actually the way of doing things to kill innocent peoples, women and children to show that you're a hero?

&#9;&#9;Is this actually your way of doing things to kill children of ten years and younger in order to obtain your objectives? 

&#9;&#9;Is this your way of doing things to kill innocent women or anyone who is just an ordinary citizen to achieve your objectives? Is this your way to perform in a cowardly fashion by planting landmines on isolated private properties where you know innocent citizens are moving about? Is this your way of doing 

&#9;&#9;things to eliminate the families of citizens 

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&#9;&#9;Is this your way of doing things to inflict citizen families and with unbearable suffering? 

&#9;&#9;Is this your way of doing things to citizens and families and friends, to give them this pain by killing their loved ones? Is this your way of doing things that you justify all your murderous acts by linking it to a struggle against a regime? Is this actually habit or your or policy to differentiate between just and unjust, murder? Is this your way of doing things or policy to call a killer of innocent women and children a freedom fighter? Is it your policy to honour the murder of innocent women and children? Is it your policy to honour cowardice? Mr Chairman I must ask you if it is your policy or practice to condemn bomb attacks like those at the Olympic Games but to revere the murder of women on our own soil as acts of bravery? 

&#9;&#9;Is this your way of operating so as not to follow a trail of blood in order not to see what trauma you inflicted on the innocent? Is it your policy that only some citizens have human rights? 

&#9;&#9;Is it your policy to discriminate against citizens who differ with you politically and is it your way to react inconsequentially?

Here I will stop my questions. Mr Ncube, and Mr Londula, 

they were actually found guilty and they were charged and they were also released. Thereafter some of them were NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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given awards. Were they honoured for justifiably, or was it to draw the attention further away from the people who gave the command for such cowardly and gruesome deeds? Were Mr&#9;

Ncube and Mr Londula, not merely marionettes or instruments in the hands indifferent politics?

&#9;ics? &#9;&#9;Mr Chairman, if there can be parallels drawn on these facts, between the way they did things and those of the officials of the previous regime, those who are undergoing hell on earth because they carried out their instructions in their work situations as Mr Ncube and Mr Londula plead. As they were carrying the very same instructions, I am saying leave Mr Ncube and Londula where they are but leave also the officials of the old regime where they are. If it is not acceptable go on with your witch hunt the officials of the past but you've got to lock up all those all those who have been found guilty of killing the innocent.

&#9; Mr Chairman, to talk about a land mine experience step by step and to describe it, is very traumatic for myself and it causes that I have to relive, relive this ghastly incident . That's why I illustrate the influence in a short and brief way by putting it in the form of questions. But these questions can only be answered by you, yourself.

Do you know how it feels to be blasted by a land mine? Do you know it feels to be in a temperature of between of 6000 and 8000 degrees? Do you know how it feels to experience such a blast that is so intense that even the 

fillings in your teeth are torn out. Do you know what trouble reigns if you survive the blast and that you must observe the results thereof? Do you know how it feels how it feels to look for survivors, only to find the dead and maimed? Do you know it feels to see crippled loved ones NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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lying and burning? Do you know how it feels to look for your three year old child and never, Mr Chairman, never to see him again and for ever after to wonder where he is? &#9;

&#9;Mr Chairman do you know how it feels to try to cheer up a friend while your own wife and two children lie dead?

Do you know how it feels to leave a baby of 18 months behind to go and look for help?

MS SOOKA: Mr van Eck.

MR VAN ECK: I am nearly finished.

MS SOOKA: No, no, you know we've got your story in the form of a statement, but it will be very much easier if you can tell us, I know it's not easy, but can you try tell us shortly the way it happened.

MR VAN ECK: Mr Chairman I'll meet your requirements, although I've said in the introduction why I've done in this way.

MS SOOKA: You can also very briefly tell us what happened, it does help us to understand it because you're are posing questions and if you could make the background a little clearer?

MR VAN ECK: You want me to give you the detail of the situation?

MS SOOKA: Yes very briefly if you could just outline the details in the story that you want to highlight.

MR VAN ECK: As you have seen my statement, it was myself and a friend, Mr de Nyschen, holidaying on his game farm in the Messina area and we were just going to watch wild animals. It was on the 19th of December 1985, it was around about 5 o'clock in the afternoon when the vehicle in which our two families were travelling detonated a landmine. The right back wheel actually negotiated the landmine, the NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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vehicle which we used was blown through the air and landed on the ground some way from there where we were covered by flames. When I regained my consciousness, I discovered that my 18 month old baby boy who had sat on my lap was actually was still alive and he was looking at me. It appeared to me that no he was uninjured. The car was covered in flames. I realised that the driver of the car was lying on the steering wheel had his hair on fire and blood was spouting from his forehead. I tried to get out of the vehicle but because of the effects impact, I could not manage. I tried to kick open the door, I could not manage and I realised that we were going to burn to death inside this vehicle, because before we came on this journey we had filled up the tank. I then crawled out through thee window taking my boy with me and I just laid him down on the road nearby.

&#9;Thereafter I saw that Mr de Nyschen had regained consciousness and he climbed out through the same window. He sat down next to my boy. I bound his head because I realised that he was bleeding to death. Thereafter I was trying to look around for those people who were still alive. I looked at the back of the vehicle. About five metres from there were my wife and my friend's wife. They were both seriously injured. Then I looked around and after some time I came upon my daughter and her little friend. They were also dead. Shortly after this I came upon little Kobus de Nyschen who still had some life in him. I returned to his Nyschen and told him about the boy still being alive but that he is very seriously injured and burned. He Mr de Nyschen asked there at the scene that the child should rather die. This happened.

&#9;Furthermore I noticed that the daughter of Mr de NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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Nyschen, Geroselle, came walking towards us from the veld 

with a cut on the nose and was walking with a limp. I also looked around for my three year old son but I could not find

him. Up to this day I haven't found him. 

&#9;After this I went to find help. About 8 km from there I had difficulty to talk to the police because I realised that I was deaf at that stage and we returned to the scene. The few that were still living were sitting and waiting on the arrival of help. This happened at about five o'clock, and assistance arrived at about 9 pm. Mrs de Nyschen was seriously injured.

&#9;At 9pm that evening when help arrived we were obliged for us to return through the bush by ambulance because we were afraid of negotiating another landmine on the road. It was shocking to see how my wife had to hold on in that ambulance for support with bare burned hands.

&#9;We got to Messina hospital at approximately 12 o'clock that evening where the injured were treated and I did not receive any treatment at all. Thereafter we were transferred to Pietersburg hospital where myself and my son were later discharged. Thereafter we went home, my son and I and at a later stage we buried our three family members and the following day our three friends, the de Nyschens.

&#9;At that stage I was a bus contractor with three school busses. I had five whites working for me. My brother and I were co-farmers and we had approximately 900 labourers on our farm and I was in a situation where I had to sit back and look at my child. I was extremely nervous and I started experiencing back ache problems and I heard from the doctors that they gave me five years and I'd be in a wheelchair, and I had to learn to live with that.

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&#9;Mr Chairperson, as a result of these happenings, it was logical that my business suffered. The trauma I experienced led to me sitting around a lot for many days with the result

that my business went under. I had to retrench workers. This incident meant that I degenerated into nothing but a poor burden in society.

&#9;Mr Chairman, the impact that this had on the rest of my family and also on our friends in the immediate vicinity, I cannot find the correct words to describe. Today it is 10 years ago. And the question I have is this? What are you going to do? What is the ANC going to do about this? Are we going to overlook this evil deed and let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak? Are you ...(end of side A)

.....my question is, do I have to live with my injuries and in a situation that has made me so poor, that you cannot do anything about it? Do I just have to accept that as if I deserve it?

&#9;Mr Chairman I appreciate the fact that there was an opportunity like this one that I could speak about this. You have responsibility, I say, you have responsibility. 

The question is, are you going to take this up or are you going to turn a blind eye? Thank you very much Mr Boraine.

MS SOOKA: Mr van Eck before I hand you over to the Chairperson, there are a few things which I want to clarify with you. At this point in time, are you employed?

MR VAN ECK: Yes.

MS SOOKA: What do you actually do?

MR VAN ECK: Since the beginning of this school term I have a permanent appointment from the Mpumalanga Education Department.

MS SOOKA: You posed a number of questions to the 

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Commission and I think you know that part of this 

Commission's brief is actually to investigate all the gross human rights violations that took place during the period, 

March 1960 to December 1993. Now one part of the picture in a sense has been that the political parties have been making submissions to the Commission on how they saw their role in the past and last week, the week before, the ANC in it's submission addressed the question of the land mine, particularly in this area and I think that a number of questions you posed, they actually seek to deal with. have you had an opportunity to look at that?

I would I think, read you a small paragraph of what they say and I believe that it answers all your questions and I think that will need to be validly addressed. But in these submissions they say that they regret the loss of life, but they do believe that the use of land mines on the white border farms was justified because the Apartheid Regime had declared border farm military zones, and that white farmers were integrated into the security system and provided with the tools of war including automatic weapons which were only legally possessed by members of the Apartheid armed forces. And they then quote an act which was passed which regulated the management of white farms as being inclusive of a strategic security system and they say that towns like Messina, Louis Trichardt, Alldays, Ellisras, Thabazimbi, Zeerust, Piet Retief and Amsterdam were all key towns in the Regime's military strategy. And they of course, do say that, they regret the loss of life but they also claim that innocent people were killed but that it is undeniable that when the Apartheid Regime took steps towards obliterating the distinction between civilians and military NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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spheres, there would then be this kind of loss of life.

&#9;Now I think that we will need to give you a copy of &#9;

this so that you yourself can read it and of course, all the questions that you posed to us, we will need to make a transcript of your evidence and send that on to them for further clarification from them. I think that it is a very very difficult issue but one question I would to pose to you is, now having seen that we are in this process where amnesty is freely available, not just for members of the Liberation Forces, but also members of the old security forces, for the deeds that they've done during this period. What is your feeling about that, because in your statement, you mention people should be treated in the same way.

MR VAN ECK: Just to go back the first section that you read to me. I hear what you're saying, but I wasn't part 

of that regime, I was not a farmer in that region. I was a teacher and a bus contractor, far from there. I went on holiday. Do you understand and I wasn't part of that regime. I had nothing to do with them and I didn't want anything to do with them and that is why I'm saying, could you just repeat the last question and how I feel about what?

MS SOOKA: You talk about the fact that the people were convicted for this crime were later on in '92 given indemnity and they were released from jail. Now part of the work of the Commission is to facilitate the granting of amnesty to those persons who have committed gross human rights violations on either side, whether they came from the old regime or whether they came from the liberation movements. And this is one of the functions of one of the committees of the Truth Commission.

&#9;Now there is a great sense out there that people are NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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being asked to deal with the question of forgiving people,

but it's also a necessity in this country of ours, where we need to put the past behind us, what is your personal view on that?

MR VAN ECK: Mr Chairman, I think it was very clear in my submission, all I'm asking, my only request is that it should be consequent, I said, leave those people as they are, leave them where they are, but then we should look at who we are hunting for in vain. In other words, the Commission stands for equality and justice. That's all I'm asking for, for justice and nothing more.

MS SOOKA: Thank you I have no further questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Lewin?

MR LEWIN: Mr van Eck, I do not want to ask another 

question because I think there are many questions here today, this morning. I just want to say that you have shown us something and what you have done here is very important, to come here. I remind the witness about Mr Smith who appeared in Johannesburg, his son was killed in bomb explosion in Amanzimtoti and I think that it was the impact thereof that the impact thereof is the same but what you are saying to us and teach us is how to overcome that bitterness, and is the a question of balance between these guys on the one hand and what the guys on the other side have done, or how should we go forward, how do we go forward from here, hereafter?

MR VAN ECK: In my case, but I don't know if it's the same all over, but in my case, I have overcome it and I am sitting here today and I can tell you the story because I get my strength from above. The God in whom I believe is the one who gives me the strength to be able to sit here NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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before you today and speak without crying. He clears my 

thoughts and he consoles me and it's the only way in which

I can overcome it. How it is going to work in other peoples' cases I do not know, I cannot give you any clarity there about. 

MR LEWIN: But I would like to say that it's very important that you are here and we hope that there will be more people who are in the same position as you who will also come forward. Because of your kind of evidence we can go forward, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Mkhize.

MS MKHIZE: Mr van Eck, much as I appreciate your sharing and the difficulties for us as well as we are listening to a traumatic story, I would still like to ask you whether 

you can tell us about your friends whom you had visited, whether he was affiliated to any political party, if you could just tell us about him a bit?

MR VAN ECK: Mr Boraine, I'm sorry for bothering you, I cannot hear very clearly. Do I understand correctly whether you want to know whether my friend was associated with any organisation or any political activities or anything like that? Is that correct? Let me put it to you this way firstly, he wasn't living on the farm, there where the accident took place. He, like me, was living far from there, he was not part of the previous regime. Like me he was opposed to the previous regime and we were just very good friends.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr van Eck, the story you have told is like a nightmare. It's a horror story. It's a story of a family who in the midst of holidaying, having fun, watching game, was suddenly blown to bits. To lose a wife, daughter a son, NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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friends, to experience damages to your own body, which you still have today, to lose your business, your farm, is one of the most horrifying stories that we have heard so far in different parts of the country. What you have illustrated for us today and for the country is the horror of war. The waste, the stupidity where young and old lives are devastated because people simply couldn't simply come around a table and talk and find a way forward.

&#9;A little later on you're going to hear, if you are able to stay, that other people were blown up in landmines, equally innocent, young, black. There's no name on the landmine, I think that's what you are telling us today, there's no name on the landmine, innocent people have been deeply hurt and whatever explanation is offered, from either side, no one can take away the horror and the stupidity that this country has gone through, and one of the things that we are trying to do is to make sure it never happens again. If your testimony today can be heard in this hall and can be heard throughout South Africa, that we cannot afford to use violence, either for political ends or for criminal ends which we are experiencing today, and you are a witness to the total blindness of such an act. And therefore we are very much in your debt. 

&#9;As my colleague has already stated, we have taken note, not only of your witness and your story but also the questions, the very difficult disturbing questions that you have raised. We will not hide those questions. Those questions will be taken to the people you have asked us they be taken to. We will ask them to give answers. There will be many questions in this dark night that South Africa has gone through. We hope that through you and through many others, NELSPRUIT HEARING&#9;TRC/MPUMALANGA

 

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the sun will begin to shine, some of the light will come back, we hope that you in your own life will have some measure of restoration. 

&#9;And finally, you yourself have said that your strength does not come from yourself, but it comes from God who has been a constant companion to you and is your strength today, and I trust that you will continue to rely on that and go forward in your life. Thank you very much indeed for coming.

MR VAN ECK: Thank you Dr Boraine.&#9;

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