=====================================================================
&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION
=====================================================================
&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: &#9;02.04.97&#9;&#9;&#9;

NAME: &#9;VUYANE RICHARD BETE 

CASE: &#9;EC1055/96 - GRAHAMSTOWN 

DAY 2

__________________________________________________________

REV XUNDU: I would like to swear the witness in Mr Chairman.

VUYANI RICHARD BETE: (sworn states)

MS CRICHTON: Welcome Mr Bete. You were meant to testify yesterday and you have three different incidents that you want to talk about. Those three incidents we will come to but I think what we need to understand here is that you are coming from a totally different position to that Mr Mbekele has just described, simply because you were related to a policeman. Am I correct in that?

MR BETE: Yes that is correct.

MS CRICHTON: So the three incidents that you are going to tell us about are first of all yourself and the damage to your property, your car and your house, the second incident was the murder of Anele Bete who was beaten to death by the Amabutu and the third incident Mbyiselo Khadi who was burned to death. Now I think it would be good if we can do those one by one, but before I do that I'd like to ask you to explain what your role was within the community, were you a member of a political organisation?

MR BETE: I was not anything. My brother was a policeman. I would like to speak about my younger brother who died before I testify about the damage to property and the death of my cousin and so forth.

MS CRICHTON: Are you talking about Mbyiseli or Anele?

MR BETE: I'm referring to Anele.

MS CRICHTON: I'm happy for you to do that, let's talk about Anele first.

MR BETE: What happened was that Anele was just released from jail three days earlier because he used to break in and steal and so on, so my older brother was a policeman and he asked me if I was living with someone dirty here at home. When I asked him what he meant he said that a policeman was somebody evil, and he had friends who were living in the Tanke(?) area and my granny was living there too. And three days after his release we went to visit my granny and then at 9 the following morning he wasn't back the following morning and towards half past nine that evening a man who owned a shop in Tanke came with four guys saying to tell us that a boy had been picked up naked in the park and that they had heard that this child lived here. 

&#9;My mother then we should go to this park, we got there, we found Anele naked and there was a lady who had asked him whose child he was and he had told her. This lady then took him to her house and the ambulance was called in and it took him to hospital. It was found that he had sustained injuries to his head, he was in hospital for two days, he passed away on the third day.

The explanation which we received from Anele while he was still in hospital was that he was taken by unknown people to him in the Tanke area when they kept him in a house all day saying that they were going to kill him. He said that they let him free that night but that whole day they assaulted him in every way possible, and he kept saying to them that he was not a policeman but that his brother was a policeman. Their response was that they could not get hold of his brother, so the only way they could get to his brother was by assaulting him and family members. That was basically the explanation which Anele gave and he died two days after being admitted to hospital.

&#9;He was still very young, Anele must have been about 15 years old, he was still very young but he was a very forward sort of curious child.

MS CRICHTON: Was he school going?

MR BETE: No he was very naughty, he used to break in, he used to pick pockets, he used to steal, he never used to stay at home. He was just a very naughty child and he would come home and he'd be on the run all the time after having done these naughty things.

MS CRICHTON: ...from prison because of a criminal offence in any event, so he belonged to no organisations, no student

organisations? (end of tape)......Impiwe(indistinct)?

MR BETE: Yes he's the one.

MS CRICHTON: Alright now could you move on then to Khadi, Mbyiselo Khadi, what happened with him?

MR BETE: I haven't finished about Anele. I'm going to come to Mbuyiselo. What I did was to say to my mum, Mum get rid of this person here at home because what is going to happen is the boys who liked me would come to me and say, listen, talk to your brother, tell him to either resign from the police or leave your home because lots of things are going to happen to you and your family.

&#9;I spoke to my mum and she asked what she's going to do. I said to her that she can see what is happening, we're all going to die because of this one person. Why doesn't she ask him to leave? 

MS CRICHTON: Was he staying at home at that time?

MR BETE: Yes he was also staying at home at the time. She didn't know what to do because I was pressurising her on the one hand and there was no one who could really tell my older brother what to do because he was the first born at home, he was the oldest.

MS CRICHTON: Are you completed now with the story? Have you completed the story of Anele for the moment?

MR BETE: Yes I've finished.

MS CRICHTON: Would you like to then move on to the story of Mbuyiselo Khadi.

MR BETE: Yes. What happened is that I left for Kingwilliamstown since I saw that things were bad at home, I must have stayed there for about three months and I came back. When I got home Mbuyiselo was working at a shop in Xolani and when I got home he was off, I asked him for money and he gave me some. He was a very generous kind person and he would try in all ways to help because he was the bread winner, so to speak. He gave me money and I had this red car of my mine and I asked him where he was going and I offered to take him there by car and he said no he would walk. I heard a noise in the next street and then I heard a whistle and I said to my mother that that is Mbuyiselo, and she said, please don't say that and that I should try and get the police.

&#9;While I was trying to do that the police came and they said that Mbuyiselo was dead in Xolani. I got into the police van and we went to Xolani Street and we got there and he had been burned. He was pitch black the way he had burned and the one policeman was standing with him who had tried to douse the flames so that he did not burn out completely. I asked what had happened and I was told that he had been asking for forgiveness from the people and when I got to the mortuary the inquest or the post mortem showed that he had been shot in the neck and then he had been set alight, and I found that these boys were right in saying that lots of things were still going to happen to us at home. That ends Mbuyiselo's story.

MS CRICHTON: Can I ask you a question about that? You say that he had gone to ask forgiveness for what, for having a cousin who was a policeman?

MR BETE: You know when you're being assaulted, whether you have done wrong or not, you'll start asking for forgiveness whether or not you have done wrong. So I see in that he must have been asking for forgiveness just to get them to stop whatever they were doing to him.

MS CRICHTON: This man Mbuyiselo was your cousin?

MR BETE: Yes.

MS CRICHTON: Is there anything more you want to say before we move on to yourself?

MR BETE: What happened was that when we opened his trunk of clothes we found ANC membership cards and discovered that he was a member, and I asked myself these questions. We heard people say that they were sorry they did not know that he was one of them, and they made a mistake, they thought he was someone else and I mean that was a bit too late because he had already died by then.

MS CRICHTON: Have any of those people come to the family to say that they were sorry and they now understood that they were wrong?

MR BETE: No but when I would walk around these little boys would come to me, they liked me a lot, I was very popular with them, but they would come to and say, you know the people are sorry about what happened to Bucks because they are saying that a mistake was made, and I would just look at them and say, okay well, because there was absolutely nothing that we could do about it then, the person was deceased.

MS CRICHTON: Mbuyiselo's family, where are they? Are they his parents?

MR BETE: They are still living here in Grahamstown.

MS CRICHTON: Have they not made a statement themselves?

MR BETE: No Mbuyiselo lived with us, not with his family.

MS CRICHTON: Alright Mr Bete, now perhaps you'd move on to what happened to you and the damage to your property and how that happened?

MR BETE: What happened was after Mbuyiselo's funeral on New Year's Eve which was a couple of days later, I was expecting friends from Mdansani who were going to come and visit me. It was even difficult to walk around there because even if you went into a shebeen or something there would be remarks that there was someone evil here and things like this, and much as I wanted to go to Xolani, I couldn't go and I said to my mum, I wanted to go to Xolani, and she said, rather don't go, you know what happened. And I mean as someone that loves liquor it was very difficult for me.

&#9;When I went to the shebeen and got there, this lady said she'd like to see me, and she said that I should please take my things or she'll send them with children because children are saying this, that and the other. And I was still quite relaxed there but then I had to get out and jump over the fence and I was quite disappointed because I was enjoying myself there. I decided to just buy my stuff and go home but now what happened was once I remained at home and out of the community it was like I was aligning myself with what my brother was doing and I couldn't move around the community. And when I moved around there they'd say there was somebody dirty, there's somebody evil here and I was wondering what's so dirty about me? And I then took my car and went to Xolani that evening and when I got there my friends were very happy to see me and they gave me some money to go and buy some cigarettes and whatever we needed in town. I went to town and I came back and I realised that I didn't have enough petrol but I didn't have money and I counted the money for cigarettes and I realised that I could possibly still get petrol from this. I asked my brother if he didn't have an empty bottle for me to go and get petrol with in town, and he said he didn't. I then found Sandile and said to him to him let's go and get some petrol. When I got there Sandile dropped me and when I opened the petrol tank I felt a tap on my shoulder and I looked back and I thought, oh my God, I saw these guys who said they wanted to see me. I asked them what was up and they remarked that this car was bought with police money. I denied it and said that I was working and bought the car with my money. On chap said that there was nothing wrong with me and the others told him that he was delaying them. They took out a fire arm and there was a shot fired right next to me. I started to urinate in my pants and then this guy remarked that the gun is too small and they took out a much bigger gun and they started shooting and I thought, me I'm going to run now. I ran around the car several times and then I ran around the house and when I looked back, my car was on fire.

&#9;I thought, my God where am I going to get another car, because I was unemployed. I then got to the police station somehow and we came back and my car had been burned out, and it seems as if what happened was that there were some people who had been working there and had stripped the car of whatever they could use and I found that some kind of weird game was being played here. The car was burned and these people who were responsible were arrested but they'd be released soon thereafter and when I'd go to the police station and enquire I would be told that the case had been withdrawn and I wanted to know how that was possible, I had not been informed? 

&#9;Long after my car had been burned I was walking down the road and I saw police up ahead. I'm policeman's brother, there was no need for me to be assaulted by the police and by the community, that's the last thing I expected. I was asked where I came from and before I could answer I was knocked with a shot gun on my head and I passed out and I was taken to hospital for stitches. I laid a charge against that policeman and when I got to court I was told that the matter was being finalised and, in spite of me pointing out the policeman that had assaulted me I was told the matter was finalised and that's my story.

MS CRICHTON: When you say finalised, what do you mean finalised, that they were acquitted or that they were convicted?

MR BETE: These people would go to court and the matter would be postponed and you'd never hear anything about it again after that, and all you could do was to become friends with them again.

MS CRICHTON: Mr Bete you've given us a very full story. There's an Afrikaans, 'tussen die bas en die boom', or 'between a stone and a hard place', I think that is where you found yourself, and although we have laughed, it was serious and what you've lost has been a lot. Thank you for giving us such a full story. I am quite sure that the rest of the Commission members will want to ask more questions about this. The only thing I need to ask you is, the car, when it was burned out, and when your house was burned down, there was a separation in time, what was the date of the car burning and the house burning?

MR BETE: My brother died and Mbuyiselo died and we were unhappy at home. My mother asked me what these people still want from her, because this person is dead and then we wanted to know why they were still burning our house because the policeman is dead? And then there was a policeman that

lived somewhere there and a group of toytoying people came right up to our gate because the person whom they didn't want had long since been killed but they were still attacking our house.

&#9;There was someone who came to the crowd and wanted to know what they still wanted there because before they said they wanted the policeman and now he was no longer there, what more did they want? That was when they stopped.

MS CRICHTON: Thank you very much Mr Bete, I'm going to hand you back to the chairperson now.

MR SANDI: On this day you say you were assaulted on your head with a firearm on your head by a policeman, who did you say was next to the house, was it Nciquelelo?

MR BETE: Yes they were next to Nciquelelo's house when people were in the house and I was walking up the road, I could see that police were busy assaulting people.

MS CRICHTON: Who was that Nciquelelo?

MR BETE: He was not there but it was in front of his house. 

MR SANDI: What are your older brothers full names?

MR BETE: Maxim Simpiwe Khade.

MR SANDI: Where's he now?

MR BETE: He has died.

MR SANDI: How did he die?

MR BETE: He had a stomach problem.

MR SANDI: Did you ever speak to him about this problem about him being a policeman.

MR BETE: When I did he he'd want to assault me and it was better for me just to leave him alone.

CHAIRPERSON: There are a few questions which we would like to ask for clarification. Before Anele and Mbuyiselo Khade died, was there ever and inquest held at court.

MR BETE: The people were arrested but what happened was that the case would be postponed several times and then the matter would be withdrawn or they'd be acquitted or whatever, but nothing ever happened to the case. In all three these matters no one was found guilty.

CHAIRPERSON: Did the family have an attorney representing them in all three these matters?

MR BETE: No.

CHAIRPERSON: Why did you not get yourselves a legal representative?

MR BETE: I cannot say why because at that time we weren't thinking straight.

CHAIRPERSON: Ms Chrichton says that she forgot to ask you what your wish was by appearing before this Commission?

MR BETE: I would say that my parent would be the best person to say. I would basically leave it in the hands of the Commission. I basically just came to say what happened from my perspective at the time, because from certain perspectives I would say that it was very wrong to have burned my car. 

CHAIRPERSON: So in explaining this, all you were saying that the Commission should see what it can do?

MR BETE: Yes that's basically all I can say.

CHAIRPERSON: I would like to find out about Mbuyiselo Khadi, you say that his parents are still alive?

MR BETE: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: What is it, are they not interested in making a statement with regards to their son's death?

MR BETE: Mbuyiselo was not living with them he was living at home. 

CHAIRPERSON: What was wrong, did he not get along with his parents?

MR BETE: No he preferred to live with my mum because he got along much better with her.

CHAIRPERSON: So you are saying that he's biological parents are still alive. So let's say for example the President decides that with regards to Mbuyiselo's death he should remunerate that harm, and because they did not come forward and make any statement, they decide to give you the remuneration...?

MR BETE: What I'm trying to say is that it is very important that Mbuyiselo's parents submit a statement with regards to Mbuyiselo, there's nothing they know about him, what they say is irrelevant.

CHAIRPERSON: What they can say is that you Vuyani, are a witness. I am merely advising you because they are his biological parents, they are still alive and when we compile our report we can say that Mbuyiselo's parents are still alive but they did not come forward to make a statement. So it could be seen as a lack of interest.

MR BETE: If I were to advise them to make a statement where could they go and make one, would it be the same person to whom I made a statement?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes you could meet with our staff around here. 

&#9;Vuyani you have entertained us by telling your version in a rather humorous way. Although it is a painful you've related it with a bit of humour. You have painted a very unusual mental picture of the perspective of the family members of a policeman. Normally stories which we hear are people who were involved in the struggle and their perception of the police. It is very unusual for us to share the pain of family members of policeman and we thank you for having given us a very clear description in the humorous way in which you related it and giving us the perspective of family members, brothers, sisters, mothers of policeman.

&#9;We will include your version of events in our report and also the loss which you and your family suffered so that the President can see what he can do about it. 

MR BETE: You know the way in which I described these events is exactly as they took place. I am merely saying it as it is, I'm merely describing what happened the way it happened. I am not trying to hide anything or exaggerate anything.

CHAIRPERSON: We thank you and we would like you to remain here today and not go to the pub.

MR BETE: No I'm going home now.

&#9;

 

