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&#9;1&#9;A D DODO 

&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;11.11.1996&#9;NAME:&#9;A D DODO

CASE: - &#9;&#9;KRUGERSDORP

DAY 1

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CHAIRPERSON: While Mrs Dodo is coming to the table can I just make a few other announcements. Please, if you have cell phones can you switch them off. We also have statement takers at the back of the hall. So if anybody wishes to make a statement today or over the next three days, our statement takers will be available. Joyce you will take the oath.

MS SEROKE: The oath.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I will just let you welcome her alright.

MS SEROKE: Good morning Mrs Dodo. We welcome you. Who are you with?

MRS DODO: I am with my son. 

MS SEROKE: We also welcome you Mr Dodo. Mam, will you please get up so that you can take your oath before you give your statement.

MRS DODO: (Duly sworn in, states).

MS SEROKE: Thank you mam.

CHAIRPERSON: Welcome. Are you comfortable.

MRS DODO: Yes, I am comfortable, Sir.

CHAIRPERSON: Is this your son Bennet?

MRS DODO: No, it is not Bennet, Sir. Bennet is my youngest. This is my elder son. It is not Bennet. 

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Dodo, you have come to tell us a story that involves not only your husband, but three of your

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children. I want you to take your time in telling that story, but before you do that perhaps you can just tell us something about yourself. How old are you? How many children do you have? Are you working?

MRS DODO: I am not working. I am 65 years of age. I am 55 years of age, I have eight children. That number includes those who are deceased as well.

CHAIRPERSON: We are going to 1990. Again in Khutsong and I want you to tell us what happened.

MRS DODO: It was the 15th of June 1990. The police entered our house looking for my husband. They asked who Pitcherman is and I said it is my son. There was a lot of them. There were Caspers outside my house. They all alighted from the Casper and they beat my child up and they left him lying on the lawn. It was at about five. We helped him up. At about seven the Casper came again. Two police alighted from the Casper. They threw teargas around. We ran away. The police threw something from the Casper and there was an explosion and our house was burnt down. They went back to the Casper and drove off. My next-door neighbour jumped over the fence to help my husband. He dragged my husband outside. The house was on fire. After they dragged him out he took a hosepipe and splashed over the house. 

&#9;Everytime the Casper comes we run away. The police that set my house alight denied all even though I saw that he is the one who set my house on fire. By the time we managed to put the fire out, my house was already badly damaged. It was the 15th of June. My husband got really ill. We tried to take him to the doctor in town. We were there the whole day. This was the 15th. The doctors there had no time for someone who had been beaten by the police. KRUGERSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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This doctor use to come to the township. We took him to him. He said that two of my husbands ribs were very, very damaged. They were actually crushed. That is why he would not be able to walk. He had to go for treatment each day. My husband has been ill from then. Now even his mind, his brain does not function well. He is slightly demented. &#9;Bennet got home at about midnight. The police took him around midnight. Then they took him to Welverdien. I asked what he had done. They said I must shut up because I do not know anything. He later told us that he was in Welverdien. They were torturing him asking where the guns that were brought by a van were. He then said he does not know anything about the guns. They said that it is Heinie's van that brought the guns. He said that he was tortured, electrocuted. He says he fell down and when he arose a policeman, white policeman came and he took the belt that was around my waist, put it around my neck and hung me. He said he then fell and he slept.

&#9; When he got up in the morning he was asked yet again where the guns were. He said he had never seen them. They insisted that these guns were at the house. They said that the whole Dodo family were going to tell the truth. This was in Welverdien. They took a bucket and a cloth. Then he was told to clean the van. The van was full of blood. He had to wash the blood off the van. He said his back was aching at the time. After that he was told to go home. He said he went home and then on the main road a van picked him up to take him to Potchefstroom. When he got home he was limping and his back was bent, his backbone was crooked. The police came yet again. The Casper was packed with police. 

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Norman does not stay at home. He comes now and again. They called him and requested his ID. They then said you are a member of the Dodo family. He said yes. They then said they want guns. He said he does not know anything about guns. They beat him up. They beat him up, threw him into the house. I told them that this child does not stay here. He does not stay here. Then they beat him up even more. This was another day altogether. They left him behind lying helpless. I asked have they injured you badly. He said I will heal. I said that he must go to the doctor. He said he will not go. The doctors here do not care about the people. They did not take care of my father. 

&#9;On the 9th of October, this is the day he did not go to work. The 10th of October was a public holiday. This is when he just fell and died. I called the police. The police did not come on that day. It was a Friday. The police would come to my house everyday, but when I called them they did not come. They came on the Friday asking where the deceased was. I kept quiet. They asked yet again where is the one who is deceased. Eventually I said he is at the mortuary. They then said he is not the one that we wanted to kill. They said that they wanted Pitcherman. They said even he I would find at the mortuary. This is around the 10th or the 11th. 

&#9;On the 17th they shot him. I was still trying to get over the first death. I was still mourning. On the day that they shot him I knew, I felt that they are shooting Tamsange. I said the police had just left. They said I would find Tamsange at the mortuary and I heard the sound. I heard the bullet sound and they were shooting Tamsange close by. I did not see anyone shooting Tamsange. I saw him KRUGERSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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in court. I did not know them. I just heard the sounds. I have no first hand witness to say that so and so shot him. &#9;These children stayed both dead. We requested that Pitcherman comes to the funeral. They then said that he first needs to be operated on. It was a week before he was released. Our lawyer went to the police station to request this. We buried both his children on the 27th of August. The father was ill at the time. After that funeral my husband was demented.

&#9;The court case took a week. Photographs were taken of the house that was burnt down. The Attorney asked how can you shoot someone that you have arrested. They responded saying that it is the Law that instructs us to kill him. We have killed him. This was over a week. The court case, nothing came of the court case. They said we would meet in Johannesburg and they would tell us the truth. It has been five years since then and nothing has happened. 

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Dodo, is there anything else you want to add to your story?

MRS DODO: This is not all that happened, but I cannot continue talking. I have no house, I have no home. They burnt my house down. Even if the storms come, the winds, the rains, I have no shelter. 

&#9;Tamsange was in jail for three months. I tried to get him out of jail. They would insist that he was not there for three months. The day that I saw him I could not even recognise him. His head was swollen, his eyes sunken. He said to me, mother it is me. I said it is not you, it cannot be. He said he was in solitary confinement, I am in solitary confinement. They poured cold water, ice-cold water on me day and night. They said that I must tell them 

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where the guns were that Heinie had brought. I do not even Heinie he said. I think I have finished. This is all I have to say.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Dodo, would you like to have a glass of water before I ask a few more questions? Can I ask a few questions?

MRS DODO: Yes.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mama Dodo I just want to clarify some things first. On the day that your husband was beaten up, on the 15th of June, you say the police first arrived and they beat up one of your other sons. Which son was beaten up?

MRS DODO: Norman. 

CHAIRPERSON: And I just want to clarify about your husband. You say that he is now demented.

MRS DODO: Yes, after the beatings he improved after a while, he could walk, but he was demented. We would have to find him as he would get lost all the time.

CHAIRPERSON: But he passed away in 1992, is that right?

MRS DODO: Yes, he passed away in January 1992, on the 30th of January.

CHAIRPERSON: And Bennet was also arrested the same day as your house was burnt down.

MRS DODO: No, not on the same day. It was before when they hung him. Our house was not burnt down yet.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, and then you lost two other sons. Norman who was beaten up and then died a few days later. Is that right?

MRS DODO: Yes, he passed away. Norman passed away and Richard.

CHAIRPERSON: Now Richard is the one they were looking for. KRUGERSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

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Is Richard the same person as Pitcherman.

MRS DODO: Pitcherman was his nickname.

CHAIRPERSON: And then you also mentioned what happened to Tamsange. Now he was also arrested at the same time.

MRS DODO: It is the same person. Tamsange, Richard and Pitcherman, it is the same person.

CHAIRPERSON: But you talk of Richard or Tamsange being arrested first. Was this before he was shot?

MRS DODO: It was before he was shot because he was in prison for three months. They shot him in 1990.

CHAIRPERSON: And on the day that he was shot you also mentioned that there were three witnesses and you have given the names of these people as Mungi, Lennie Monareng and Mrs Martha Musnki. Is that right?

MRS DODO: Yes, it is so. I saw them in court. 

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Dodo, can you try and tell us why you think the Dodo family was singled out by the police for so much attention, harassment and eventually killing of two of your sons?

MRS DODO: They claimed that Richard thought he was too intelligent. Apparently he is the one who brought the spirit of the struggle in the township. Nkosi uttered these statements. They said that he had corrupted the township. He was teaching the other children about things that happened in 1912. They said that they would get him, he thinks he knows too much. 

CHAIRPERSON: How old was Richard. Sorry.

MRS DODO: I was not there at the time. I do not know exactly what was happening. Only Tamsange would know what he did.

CHAIRPERSON: How old was Tamsange at the time, when he 

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died.?

MRS DODO: He was about 18 years of age. He gave up on his schooling because the police were after him all the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know anything about these guns the police kept taking about?

MRS DODO: They searched and looked all over from corner to corner. The toilets that we were using at the time, the bucket system. They would even search in the toilets. They did not find them. They would break my dishes looking for these, they would throw everything aside. They never found them. Every single day they would do the same thing. I would not even lock or close my door because they were going to come. 

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Dodo I just want to mention that our research document talks about Richard Pitcherman Dodo being a witness in the killing of Eugene Embulawo who was supposedly shot by somebody called Venter Rampete. Do you remember anything about that?

MRS DODO: No, I know nothing of this. I do not know anything about it. They were all together in jail. I do not know. 

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Dodo, I just want to ask my last question and that is you say that you have no home. Where are you staying at the moment?

MRS DODO: I stay in a shack. If it rains I have to go next door. My house is just zincs. 

CHAIRPERSON: But who do you live with?

MRS DODO: I stay with the two boys and a girl.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Mama Dodo. I do not know whether my colleagues would want to ask any further questions. 

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MS SEROKE: Mrs Dodo, are you on pension?

MRS DODO: Yes, I am.

MS SEROKE: And your house, as it was burnt down, is there somebody staying there.

MRS DODO: I stay there.

MS SEROKE: As it is?

MRS DODO: Yes, as it is. 

MS SEROKE: What is your request to the TRC mam?

MRS DODO: I think that they should do something about my house. I stay outside. I got a bit of hope because there were photographers and lawyers coming. Also an ANC lawyer. They came and took photographs, but they never did anything about it. 

MS SEROKE: Thank you mam, we have heard your request. We will pass on the request.

CHAIRPERSON: Within a very short period of time you lost three very important people in your family and you also lost your home. Can you tell us what support there has been for you from the community or from the Church, any other organisation that you have appealed to?

MRS DODO: I did not get anything. I did not get anything. I got blankets from my employers because everything was burnt down. 

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mama Dodo. Mama Dodo, we have no further questions. We thank you very, very much for coming today to talk about this very painful part of your life.

&#9;Last week I sat at a, not last week, the week before, I sat at a hearing in Alexandra where we heard a mother, again, talking about the loss of three sons. All within a very short period of time and, again, there are so many mothers throughout the country who have come and who have 

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talked about the loss of their children, the loss of their husbands. Often, mothers have not known what their sons or daughters were involved in in terms of the struggle that people fought and there may be other reasons that we need to find out about as we go through the stories that we are going to be hearing today and as our investigations will reveal, but I hope today that you have got some comfort from coming to talk about these stories. 

&#9;I also hope that the councilling services, the councilling people who are here today will give you as much support as is necessary through the next few weeks and months. Thank you very much for coming.

MRS DODO: I also thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Mama Dodo, is there anything else you want to say before you leave?

MRS DODO: I have nothing further to say. I have said it all. 

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mama Dodo. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

KRUGERSDORP HEARING&#9;TRC/GAUTENG

