&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;12 MAY 1997&#9;

NAME:&#9;SHEPHERD LULAMILE JAWE 

CASE:&#9;&#9;EC1994/97CCK&#9;-&#9;KING WILLIAM'S TOWN

DAY:&#9;&#9;1

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CHAIRPERSON: How old are you Mr Jawe.

MR JAWE: I am 22 years old.

CHAIRPERSON: You look pretty young. I thought you were 14, because people under the age of 18 do not appear before the Commission on their own. Reverend Xundu will swear you in.

REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Shepherd Lulamile Jawe please get up.

SHEPHERD LULAMILE JAWE: (Duly sworn in, states).

REV XUNDU: Thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON: Tiny Maya.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Good afternoon Lulamile. You are going to talk about yourself, an incident in 1985 when you were ten years old. Is that so?

MR JAWE: Yes.

MS MAYA: Did you know what was happening at the time?

MR JAWE: Yes, my family told me.

MS MAYA: Tell us what happened.

MR JAWE: It was 1985 on the 20th of September.

MS MAYA: Please speak up.

MR JAWE: It was 1985 on the 20th of September. We were in the village singing songs, liberation songs. We were singing moving down the streets. It was at about nine in the evening. As we were singing the police came with torches and there was teargas and we were shot with rubber bullets.

MS MAYA: What village was this?

MR JAWE: It was Lenge in Alice. 

MS MAYA: Please continue.

MR JAWE: When we heard that we were being shot with rubber bullets and that there was teargas we ran away, jumping over fences. As I was running, jumping over a fence, I fell.

MS MAYA: Please speak up.

MR JAWE: As I was jumping over the fence, because it was at night, I fell. The police got me. Some people, as they were running, would trample over me. I was beaten with the back of a rifle on my head. I became unconscious. The next thing I knew I was at Cecilia Makiwane.

MR JAWE: How injured were you?

MR JAWE: On my head, I was injured.

MS MAYA: How long did you stay in hospital for?

MR JAWE: I stayed for two to three months.

MS MAYA: What standard were you doing at the time?

MR JAWE: I was in standard one.

MS MAYA: After you got out of hospital were you able to go back to school?

MR JAWE: Yes, I went back to school the following year. I went and repeated my standard one. I continued until I finished my matric. I had problems, however. I could not hear properly. I am mentally not well. Apparently I am deranged.

MS MAYA: Does that happen to you often?

MR JAWE: It happens, but seldom. It use to happen a lot around 1992, 1993. 

MS MAYA: Are you getting help from the doctors?

MR JAWE: I use to go for help, because whilst I was at school it use to happen quite a bit, but now I am better. It happens now even, but seldom. 

MS MAYA: Do you think that you still need further treatment?

MR JAWE: Yes, I could use some help.

MS MAYA: Did you see who beat you up? Did you see who hit you with the back of the rifle?

MR JAWE: No, it was at night, but what happened is that as they were hitting us they called out names and I remember the names. I heard three names.

MS MAYA: Who was it?

MR JAWE: It is Mr Fila, who was a police in Ciskei, a policeman, Mr Ngonyama and Mr Skhephe.

MR JAWE: Did you see them after that?

MR JAWE: I last saw them three years ago.

MS MAYA: You do not know where they are?

MR JAWE: No, I do not know.

MS MAYA: Were they members of the police force in Ciskei?

MR JAWE: Yes.

MS MAYA: And they were stationed in Alice?

MR JAWE: Yes.

MS MAYA: Is that all Lulamile?

MR JAWE: Yes.

MS MAYA: What requests do you have before the Commission?

MR JAWE: I need help, because I am not well. I want to continue with my education, but I cannot because I was gravely affected mentally. If the Commission could help me and perhaps some form of compensation for myself and my parents. 

MS MAYA: If you would see these police that injured you at such a tender age, what would you say to them?

MR JAWE: I do not know what I would say, because I am still much younger than them, even now. There is nothing I can do.

MS MAYA: What would you like the Commission to do?

MR JAWE: If the Commission could investigate and arrest them, divulge all.

MS MAYA: You said you finished your matric. What are you doing now?

MR JAWE: I am not doing anything.

MS MAYA: Thank you Lulamile. I will hand you over to the Chairperson. 

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jawe, you say that Mr Fila, Mr Ngonyama and Mr Skhephe were involved in your injuries. Do you have their first names, these are surnames?

MR JAWE: I do not have their names.

CHAIRPERSON: But you can identify these people?

MR JAWE: No, I did not see them.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay, are there any other questions.

MS CRICHTON: Yes, can I ask a few questions.

CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Crichton.

MS CRICHTON: Mr Jawe, can you hear me? Mr Jawe, you were with a group of children on that day singing freedom songs. Were there other children that were injured on that day?

MR JAWE: Will you please repeat your question.

MS CRICHTON: My question is were there other children injured on that day?

MR JAWE: Yes, there were.

MS CRICHTON: Do you know how many or do you know anything about them?

MR JAWE: I do not know how many there were, but I know one who is here today. 

MS CRICHTON: And he was present and he saw what happened to you?

MR JAWE: Well, I do not know, because we had dispersed, we were running away, but he was there. He was also injured.

MS CRICHTON: But you know him well enough to be able to ask him the question as to whether he can identify these three people who you have identified?

MR JAWE: Well, I do not know, perhaps he can be able to identify these people.

MS CRICHTON: Alright, thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON: Mr Jawe, you stay at Lenge?

MR JAWE: Yes Reverend.

CHAIRPERSON: Do you know the police at Lenge?

MR JAWE: There is one Ciskeian police in Lenge.

CHAIRPERSON: Who is it?

MR JAWE: Mr Mafu, but at that time he was not a policeman yet.

CHAIRPERSON: Therefore you did not know the police at the time?

MR JAWE: There were no police at Lenge at the time.

CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Thank you Mr Jawe. Thank you for your evidence. There are two submissions. The first one from Mr Ngonyama, the second one from Mr Skhephe. Mr Ngonyama is represented by Mr Mlalane. 

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