SIXTH SESSION

FIRST - THIRD SITTINGS	NORMAL		10, 23, 24, 25 FEBRUARY
								AND 16 MARCH 1999
					

VOLUME 1

[I am very pleased.  We will give this opportunity to other political parties].
[pg 7 ln 15]

[the spirits of our departed will be happy that for a change you will sleep at your home, instead of flying in an aeroplane, Mantshinga].
[pg 12 ln 24

[traditional medicine, and inject this Province so it can be better than before]. 
[Pg 13 ln  13]

[daughter
[pg 13 ln 21]

[it is hot over here]
[pg 13 ln 24]

[Thank you, hon member.  This is how the list of speakers stands.  I am going to call upon the hon member D Makhaye, who has been given 15 minutes].
[pg 39 ln 2-3]

[Oh, yes, you must know me if you call me MaNdlovu's boy].
[pg 39 ln 5-6]

[I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr John Aulsebrook, who has 12 minutes].
[ pg 40 ln 20]

[We thank the hon member.  I ask the hon member Haygarth, who has 12 minutes].
[ pg 43 ln 16]

[I am very pleased.  I am now going to ask the hon member, Mrs Mkhize, nine minutes].
[ pg 46 ln 25]

[We are pleased.  I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr Nel, who has six minutes].
[ pg 48 ln 13]

[The next one on the list of speakers, I ask the hon member, Mr J Mkhwanazi, who has four minutes].
[ pg 51 ln 23-24]

[Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I apologise for being a bit late, my stomach is not well].[ pg 52 ln 2]

[debt].[pg 52 ln 12]

TRANSLATION:  Thank you.  I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr M A Tarr, who will speak for eight minutes.  Mr Tarr is not in?  We will continue because it seems that the hon member is not in.  I will give time to the hon I C Meer, who will speak for 20 minutes.  T/E
[ pg 52 ln 23]

[Calm your spirits, Africans.  With all this confusion you are talking, calm your spirits.  Let us sit down and rectify this thing.  Thank you.  The country is ours].
[pg 91 ln 21-23]


TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, firstly, let me correct that area that was discussed earlier, that I think might be corrected if people still have a sense of justice.  There is an area that the hon Mr Bheki Cele touched upon where he says that those in the Special Branch mentioned the Inkosi's name, my name and Powell's name.  
I think that Bheki Cele will understand that since this Government, said to be a Government of Unity, came in, it created - I am not going to be disturbed by you.  [LAUGHTER]  

I think that this is exactly the problem that landed us in trouble in this Province, because people who are said to be Umkhonto, were taken from exile and placed at every station.  Now this means that these people were put in place so that they can destroy other parties competing with the ANC.  That is what I think should be looked at and I also think that, Mr Speaker ...

Mr Speaker, I think it bothers me, David Ntombela, that today when the issue of Richmond is mentioned, then it starts so much noise, because I think that every one in this House is bothered by the things that are taking place in Richmond.  

Mr Speaker and the hon House, I think that the truth that cannot be denied, is that my colleague across there, who is the Chairman of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, the hon Bheki Cele, said, without equivocation, that they would never ever respect Inkosi Ngubane.  Whatever they do, they would never report to Inkosi Ngubane.

You will remember that when Nyoka was killed at Matimatolo, the ANC did not comment on anything regarding the death of Nyoka and his son.  The ANC did not comment on anything.  

The ANC did not mention anything about its concern regarding Nkabinde's death, but instead, they uttered something sick, saying that maybe it is the ANC guards who killed him.  

They said maybe a third hand was involved in Nkabinde's death.  Mr Speaker, I must say that I, David Ntombela, and those who empathise with anyone's death, the IFP sent its members to show respect when the hon member of this House, Bheki Mthembu, died.  They went to his burial.  

Yet, when Sifiso died, the ANC did not do anything.  Instead of that, it hinted on who might have killed Sifiso.  It saddens me a great deal to say that on the day of the funeral, my colleague here, the Chairman of this Portfolio on Safety, was in Richmond, sitting under a tree with some boys.  I do not know what he was watching out for.  It is amazing.  As Chairperson, I do not know what he was doing there.

I must say, Mr Speaker, that the death of people is something sad, because the lack of respect for the Provincial Minister Inkosi Ngubane, makes it crystal clear that the ANC is not honest.  Even when something happens in the Province, the hon Minister Mufamadi, just sends in police, without communicating with Inkosi Ngubane.  They come in here doing something that shows no progress and you are not sure what it is they bring along and why they are here.

Secondly, as other speakers have said, they arrived.  The Central Government removed the police at Richmond and they told them to get out, and then they replaced them with their own.  But it is sad that Sifiso Nkabinde died in broad daylight on the main road, and where were those police?  

I must say that today we are discussing an awful matter and I believe that the ANC and the IFP, led by the Premier of this place, and Mr Nyambose, as well as the hon Nxamalala over there, creating structures that were intended to create peace between the two organisations.  They even involved the National Party, the DP and all other parties, because they were establishing peace.  It surprises me that today we are talking about the awful issue of Richmond.  

I would like to ask, Mr Speaker, where is my son-in-law, the hon Mkhize, as we are here to discuss such deep issues?  Is it because he is ill?  Is he on a visit?  Where could he be?  That bothers me, David Ntombela, that is a surprise.  I think that, Mr Speaker, he exposed the ANC doing these things.  It bothers me why the ANC is refusing to talk to the organisation, the UDM, because it called its members criminals.

I do not know, Mr Speaker, how other organisations such as the National Party, the DP, the PAC and the IFP were talking, because while Sifiso was still in the ANC, more than 1,000 people, members of the IFP, were killed here in Richmond.  As Sifiso died, he had already said he would divulge the whole truth.  

The Nzimande family was killed by Sifiso, together with ANC members and he mentioned the ANC members who were present there.  Sifiso named the person who delivers guns at Izingolweni.  Sifiso named the person who delivers guns in the Province.  When it became apparent that this boil was festering, it surprises us that Sifiso exploded like a mushroom and died.  It is a surprising thing.  

I think that when we discuss this issue, there should not be anything that is concealed.  Everything should come out in the open, because we all know the issue of Izingolweni.  We know who is delivering guns there.  In the Province, we know who is delivering guns, we know that.

It then bothers me that we talk of some things that we are to put under the carpet, because our aim here, as a collective, is to save the lives of God's people.  When today we are going to talk peace over here, talk peace over there, and the government led by an IFP Premier, spends money establishing a Peace Committee and even issues his cars, cars that will carry guns, cars that will carry guns for distribution so that people can be killed.

Mr Speaker, it saddens me a great deal, because the name of Inkosi Ngubane, there is word that ...

What is bothering you?  Sit down, sit down, you are being bothered by these guns I am talking about, these guns are making you itch.  [LAUGHTER]

Speaker, protect me, sir, because he must understand that he is the one who is out of order now.  It bothers me that it is the Chairman of the Portfolio on Safety who is the one being burnt and bothered by this thing.  I do not know what it is that is bothering him, I do not know what it is that is bothering him, because the guns we are talking about are spread all over the place.  

They are at Izingolweni, I do not know what is bothering him.  I want to know who killed Nkabinde, these 11 people, who killed them?  We want to know who killed those people.  What is really making you itch, my boy, what is making you itch?  

What is this thing that is bothering you?  I am asking.  I am saying, today you must understand that nothing will remain concealed forever.  The Bible states that everything will be exposed like the private parts of a goat.  It is so.  I am pleased.  [LAUGHTER]  T/E
[pg 104 ln 12- pg 108 ln 2]

HIS MAJESTY, THE KING:  Mr Speaker, the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Prince of KwaPhindangene, members of the Royal Family, amaKhosi neziNduna, Chairmen and members of the Regional Councils in KwaZulu-Natal, members of Parliament and other dignitaries from other provinces, members of the National Assembly, KwaZulu-Natal Cabinet Ministers and other members of the Provincial Legislature, members of the diplomatic missions to South Africa, senior officials from Government, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen.

I am really sorry because a car is like a child, it did not foretell me that there was anything wrong with its tyres.  I hope the Council will pardon me on that.

For the sixth time since the first democratic elections took place in April 1994, we once again meet to officially open the KwaZulu Legislative Assembly.  In a number of ways I would like to describe this Parliamentary session as a special one.  The session takes place against the backdrop of a united effort by all top level political leaders to find a lasting peace in this Province.  I will later address myself to this theme.

Mr Speaker, it is the first time that I address your assembly after your inauguration and that of the Premier Mr L P H M Mtshali.  May I take this opportunity to congratulate you on your onerous positions.  I have noted with interest the objectives the Premier has set for himself as Premier of this Province, particularly, his commitment to peace and reconciliation.  I wish you, Mr Premier, and all the people that you are going to be working with, the courage, resilience and vision that your position demands.

This opening of the session should be regarded as a watershed one in the sense that it is the last one before this year's elections.  This is, therefore, a session during which all parliamentarians should take stock of their achievements.  This is the time for all of you who represent the people to ask yourselves whether you have discharged your mandates to deliver services to all the people of KwaZulu-Natal.

Mr Speaker, this is the time for each and every member of this Legislature to justify his or her election to the Provincial Parliament.  As politicians, it behoves members of this House to revisit the question of what politics is all about and then, in the light of the definition of politics, consider their own performance in the past five years.

Amongst a number of definitions of politics I wish to associate myself with one by Bay, who defines politics as "all activities aimed at improving or protecting conditions for the satisfaction of human needs and demands in a given society or community, according to some universalistic scheme of priorities, implicit or explicit".

According to this definition, politicians such as parliamentarians, must spend most of their time improving the living standards of the people they represent.  A politician's responsibility is to interact frequently with these people to determine their needs and demands.  In a sense, politicians should repeatedly renew their mandates for representing their people.  As they do so, they will report to the people how their needs and demands are addressed in Parliament.  This sustained interaction between the people representatives forms the core of a democracy.

I challenge members of this House to honestly re-examine their consciences.  Those members who have no contact with the people they represent should decide whether they indeed represent the people or they represent their own selfish interests.

The second part of this definition is about "protecting conditions for the satisfaction of human needs and demands in a given society or community."  It is the responsibility of the members of this House, jointly and severally, to protect the living conditions for the satisfaction of the needs and demands of the people they represent.  It is a fact that resources at the disposal of this Government will never be sufficient to satisfy the demands of the populace.  But sustained interactions I referred to earlier will help the politicians to determine the needs and other demands.

The last part of the definition has to do with a "universalistic scheme of priorities."  Based on the needs as identified through contact with the people, parliamentarians will determine a list of priorities and then utilise the insufficient resources to address the most urgent needs.  I urge all members to join hands in ensuring that this process is observed.

As the Province of KwaZulu-Natal is a democracy, I now wish to address myself to a few principles of a democracy.  One of these principles is citizen participation in a democracy.  This participation takes a number of forms, such as, standing for election, voting in elections, feeding issues into the political process by relaying such issues to politicians and government departments, attending community or civic meetings, and to paying taxes.

With regard to the question of voting in elections, it seems to me that some progress has been made in the registration of voters.  Some reports suggest that some people are not willing to register as voters and will not vote because they are disillusioned with the performance of the current Government.  Whilst there is a need to respect the views of those who think in this manner, I however urge all the people of KwaZulu-Natal to register as voters as a matter of extreme urgency.

As you are aware, the current position is that only persons with bar-coded identity documents are eligible for registration as voters.  I, therefore, call on all those who have not obtained their bar-coded identity documents to do so as soon as possible.  I have been made to understand that the Department of Home Affairs is ready for the influx of applications and to issue temporary identity documents where necessary.  Let us all act as responsible citizens.  We have now reached a stage when we should work towards elevating the quality of our leadership by showing more than passive interest in governmental matters.  If people pay little attention to issues involving their freedom, development, peace and prosperity and when people avoid their obligations as citizens, and only mind their own affairs, they are asking for inefficient government, and they will get it.

If there are still no-go areas for certain political parties, these must be done away with immediately.  In the same vein I would, however, like to urge political leaders to refrain from using provocative language during the election campaigning period.  It is enough to market your party manifesto to the people without degrading or vilifying the other parties.

At this point in time, Mr Speaker, may I express my appreciation for the reported rapprochement between the leaders of the two major political parties in this Province, the IFP and the ANC.  Thousands of members of these parties lost their lives in the 1980's and early 1990's.  I am also aware of the tireless efforts made by all political parties in KwaZulu-Natal to agree on a code of conduct which will guide their members' activities before, during and after this year's elections.  These steps towards achieving the lasting peace in KwaZulu-Natal need to be supported by all peace-loving people.

The process of peace-making, in order to be sustainable, needs to be an all-inclusive effort.  Peace and reconciliation is a matter for all political parties, the church, business, organised labour, NGO's interest and pressure groups as well as members of civil society.

The process of peace and reconciliation is still important in this Province.  There is a lot of work that has been done by people and leaders who have committed themselves to the spirit of peace.  We should not at all regress.

It is pleasing to see that even those who promote signs of intolerance, their leaders soon take them to task and show them the way.  It would be good to continue this commitment to peace.

I have spoken at length about the need for individual members to do some soul searching regarding their relevance as parliamentarians.  Now I wish to address the Provincial Government as a whole.

It is my view that this session will provide an opportunity for the Government to re-assess its performance.  The question that becomes paramount is: Did the Provincial Government use the resources at its disposal optimally for the benefit of the majority?  My impression is that the Government has made a difference in a number of areas.  There is, however, room for great improvement.  I will now briefly outline some of the activities of the Provincial Government.

THE ECONOMY

The latest reports on the economic activities are that our Province is the fastest growing one in respect of domestic and international investment.  Recent multi-million rand factories owned by Mainland Chinese business people in Newcastle and the proposed construction of a multi-billion rand aluminium smelter in Richards Bay are examples of this growth.  It is interesting to hear about progress in projects related to our ports.  

I would like to plead with investors and members of this House to try and ensure that every effort is made to allow participation of individuals or companies from the historically disadvantaged sector of society.  The Provincial Government has played a facilitative role in this respect.

One of the things that worry me is that my people have nothing.  They live difficult lives because of the conditions under which they live.  We know that the economic situation of the country is not good.  

This ailment that infected our economy, has also infected economics of our neighbouring countries and other countries of the world.  Community development is something we should work hard and fight to ensure that it is a success.

It is time that we should see a change in the lives of people.  The various sectors of government are facing an enormous challenge in creating a difference in peoples lives.  It is important that the communities also demonstrate a commitment to developmental issues.

It is important that government efforts receive community support so that developmental projects are a success.  

TOURISM

The visit to KwaZulu-Natal by the Heads of State, Heads of Government and other political leaders and officials in August last year to attend the Non-Aligned Summit at the International Convention Centre in Durban, and an almost total absence of crime in the city for the duration of the Summit, seems to have heralded an upward turn of tourism in KwaZulu-Natal.

When we talk about tourism, it is important that communities understand the importance of tourism in improving the economy of the country.  It is important for us to know that if tourists are not able to move freely because they fear that they will be raped and shot, they will not be enthusiastic to come here.  I have only one question:  Whatever happened to treating guests with respect in this land of Mthaniya?  Why are guests, who are bringing in money and whose purchases can even benefit us in the area of handicrafts, being shot?  

The fact that the International Convention Centre in Durban, had by the end of January this year, given KwaZulu-Natal a R360 million economic boost bears testimony to the upward spiral of tourism in the Province.  This does not mean that we should now sit back.  There is still a great need to re-examine the way our Province is being marketed, locally and internationally.  I would like to see this Province being the leader in attracting domestic and international tourists.



AGRICULTURE

The estimated contribution of the Provincial agricultural sector to the national agricultural economy is 15%.  This is the case despite the fact that the Province covers only 7.55% of South Africa's land area.

The Xoshindlala (chase away hunger) project, launched last year by our Department of Agriculture will help subsistence farmers to grow into commercial farmers.  As you are aware, farming is very close to my heart.  I am convinced that my people can proceed from poverty to prosperity provided they work hard and employ scientific farming methods.  I urge my Government to give priority towards the development of agriculture, particularly in rural areas.  Our Department of Agriculture should be ready to impact knowledge on those methods.  I, therefore, urge people to tap on the resources of this Department to develop their small plots, including their backyards in town houses.

Now I urge the Government to assist in matters of agriculture.  It is expected that communities will rise in determination and till the soil.  What is said is that there are people who have not ploughed their land or planted gardens, and yet there is such poverty.  The hunger and poverty that so grips this land of South Africa, will end when people realise the importance of working the land.  The economy of this Province will be sustained when we encourage and increase the number of farmers, who are not just subsistence farmers, but rather farmers who produce enough to feed their families, as well as sell some of the produce in the overseas markets.

CRIME

Crime is still the scourge that remains the greatest threat to our freedom.  Criminals continue to stalk us day and night.  To the man in the street the menace is as bad as it has always been.

We are, however, encouraged by reports from political office bearers and safety and security officials that certain categories of crime are on the decline.  All safety and security establishments are applauded for this but there is still a long way to go towards normalising the security situation in the Province.  To this end I invite every member of the KwaZulu-Natal community, to play a role in combatting crime.

The crime I am talking about is not just prevalent in towns and cities, but it is everywhere.  Another type of crime that is now prevalent, particularly in rural areas, is theft.  Somebody will end up stealing what is his own, due to habit.  [LAUGHTER]  No-one is safe from this prevalent crime of theft, particularly in rural areas. I urge communities to join hands with the Government in efforts to put an end to crime and corruption.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOUSING

I am pleased to learn that the housing delivery rate in KwaZulu-Natal is second only to Gauteng.  I have also learned that this area of government activity is being speeded up.

Providing housing to those who cannot afford them should remain one of the top priorities for the Government of this Province.  One of the objectives of providing housing for the poor is to help eliminate informal settlements which spring up in areas not demarcated as residential areas, thereby throwing town planning into chaos.

HIV/AIDS

Despite concerted efforts by the National Cabinet, and our own Ministry of Health and the Monarchy to warn communities about the dire consequences of contracting HIV, AIDS-related deaths are increasing.  Statistics show that over a million people in KwaZulu-Natal alone are HIV positive.  Our youth in particular need to undergo a behavioral change.  Otherwise the Province is on the verge of chaos in many spheres of life.

I again urge the community to work together in this campaign against the spread of HIV/AIDS.  There are too many people upon whose graves we walk, who died of AIDS.  There are also many heartbroken people because they have lost their children and their relatives to this disease.

What is more devastating is that it is said that even the condoms supplied to us have holes in them.  They are no longer safe. It is confusing what all this means. [LAUGHTER]

Why are those people charged with preserving them, handling them carelessly?  That poses a danger to people.

TRANSPORT

Road safety campaigns mounted by our Department of Transport are commendable.  It is regrettable that both drivers and pedestrians have not heeded these campaigns to the desired extent, but we should not lose heart.  As is the case with HIV/AIDS infections which are on the ascendancy, despite almost wall-to-wall campaigns, it takes a long time to change people's behaviour - even if that change will save their own lives.

The process of regulating the taxi industry and helping it to dovetail into other related businesses, which is fully supported and guided by the Provincial Department of Transport, will eventually bear fruit.  This process will turn the taxi industry around by making it far more profitable and violence-free.

SOCIAL WELFARE AND POPULATION DEVELOPMENT

The problems associated with the payments of pensions have been going on for too long.

We are pleased that the Provincial Ministry of Social Welfare and Population Development is giving this matter its full attention.  Corrupt officials are being prosecuted and some have been convicted of stealing the taxpayer's money at the expense of pensioners who have no other income.  In this regard I also want to express my appreciation for the work of the criminal justice system for successfully prosecuting of these thugs.  The problems associated with the payment of pensions, have been going on for so long.

PUBLIC WORKS

The allocation of insufficient funds has made the work of the Department of Public Works difficult.  We hope the position will improve this year to enable Public Works to provide proper and suitable offices and other accommodation.

FINANCE

In the past years the Provincial Government has been under the cloud of overspending.  It had to be bailed out by the National Government under certain conditions.  The burden of implementing those austerity measures rested with the Provincial Department of Finance.  The allocation of insufficient funds has made the Department of Public Works difficult.

I felt very proud when Mr Trevor Manuel, the National Minister of Finance, heaped praise on the KwaZulu-Natal Minister of Finance for exceeding the set targets in controlling the Provinces finances.  For this effort I thank not only the Minister of Finance but also the former Premier, Dr B S Ngubane and his Cabinet, the Director-General, Professor O E H M Nxumalo, heads of departments and managers of different levels of government.

Other favourable reports on fiscal discipline by KwaZulu-Natal indicated that the Departments of Health and of Education, did very well in controlling utilisation of funds allocated to them.  These reports have created a positive image which will certainly create investor confidence in the Province.

TRADITIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS

This Department has played a pivotal role in ensuring that traditional leadership in KwaZulu-Natal will not be consigned to the scrapheap of history.  This Ministry whilst being a custodian of our tradition and values, has to ensure that traditional authority can function in tandem with Western-type democracy.  Indeed, African traditional forms of government and Western-type democracy are not mutually exclusive.

This Department needs to continue to focus on the conservation of our nature, animals and natural resources.  Central to the Department's policies is the establishment of partnerships with local communities and the private sector for the benefit of all.  This approach was conceptualised and implemented for the first time by the erstwhile KwaZulu Bureau of Natural Resources under the leadership of the Prince of KwaPhindangene.  It is now clear to everyone that this is the only viable approach to nature conservation.

When I addressed this House on 28 March 1996, I commented on the drafting of the Provincial Constitution which had then been finalised.  I pointed out, however, that there were still outstanding sections of the Constitution, particularly those relating to the role and status of the Monarchy.  I urged this House and the Constitution Committee to ensure that those outstanding sections be addressed with utmost care and diligence.

It is common knowledge that the question of our Provincial Constitution has to date not been finalised.  It is regrettable that members of this House have failed to discharge its obligation in this regard.  The KwaZulu Monarchy should be given sufficient capacity to meet its challenges as well as address the needs of the people that knock at its door.

When I talk of traditional leaders, Mr Speaker, I see it fit that I thank those amaKhosi who continue to commit themselves to honest leadership and to cater for the needs of the communities they lead.  I wish that amaKhosi may have a great contribution in encouraging development that will put an end to the poverty facing their people.

It must be understood that what amaKhosi have done by collecting money for the commemoration of Isandhlwana, is commendable.  It demonstrates their leadership.  Therefore, they should be given their rightful status under this Government.

EDUCATION

Education is one of the most important investments a nation can make.  Thus the money spent on education should not be regarded though it is spent on social services.  Education should and must not be regarded in the same light as Health Services and Social Welfare.  Eduction stands alone as an investment of enormous proportions - in our case, an investment in the well-being of the South African nation.  I, therefore, go along with those leaders who place a high premium on our education.

It will always be a bad patch in our education history that matric results for 1998 dropped by 4 percentage points on the 1997 results.  I wish to call on all educators, learners and parents to make concerted efforts in ensuring that the KwaZulu-Natal 1999 matric results are not lower than 60%.

There is a short time before we reach the millennium which will be characterised by many challenges.  As we move into the new millennium, I do believe that there is an urgent need for all of us to redefine our approach to education and rediscover the positive values in each of our cultures.  If our country desires to make its mark in the global competitive economy, we will have to invest heavily in education and this exercise of rediscovering cultural values.  Time is unfortunately not on our side.

Mr Speaker, for some time now, the deliberations of this House have taken place in the atmosphere of peace, reconciliation and consensus.  I strongly believe in these principles.  The politics of conflict and tensions are not suitable for KwaZulu-Natal.  It is my fervent hope that this spirit of co-operation will continue into the next Provincial Government and beyond.

On that note, Mr Speaker, it is my pleasure to declare this sixth session of this Assembly open.
[pg 123 ln 14- pg 135 ln 24]

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, Your Majesty, His Excellency Dr M G Buthelezi, Prince of KwaPhindangene, Minister of Home Affairs, Chairman of the House of Traditional Leaders in this Province, and Traditional Prime Minister to the Zulu nation, members of the Royal Family present, amaKhosi neziNduna, members of Parliament, members of Provincial Parliaments who are here with us today, members of the KwaZulu-Natal Cabinet, members of the Government of National Unity, members of the Diplomatic Corps and Consular Corps, dignitaries from other provinces, officers of other governments and institutions, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen.

I would like to acknowledge the presence here today of my predecessor, Dr B S Ngubane and his wife.  I would also like to acknowledge the Deputy Chairman of the National House of Traditional Leaders, Inkosi Mzimela.  His presence here also marks the importance of this occasion.

It is an honour for me to express the appreciation of this House to His Majesty for performing the official opening of the sixth session of the first KwaZulu-Natal Legislature.  This will be the last sitting of the KwaZulu-Natal Parliament before the nation goes to the polls.

Your Majesty, we take note of the important remarks that you made today in this House.  May I, on behalf of the Government of KwaZulu-Natal assure you that His Majesty's message has not fallen on deaf ears.  We commit our Government to the maintenance of peace and reconciliation in this Province.  His Majesty made reference to the rapprochement between the ANC and the IFP.  Your Majesty, I would like to state for the record that we are not there yet.  The process which will culminate in this rapprochement is bedeviled by political violence and killing of people for political purposes.  Plots, which are being hatched to assassinate IFP members and leaders.

We are concerned, Your Majesty, about the gun-running in the Bulwer, Impendle and Richmond areas.  The role of private security companies bedevils the process.  In the running up to the elections we hope that private security companies will observe a code which is acceptable in democratic societies.  We hope that private security companies will not be involved in activities which will disrupt the electoral process.  We state for the record that this Government will ensure that private security companies do not have any role whatsoever to play in arrangements around the elections.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We would like to warn private security companies to desist from fanning the fires of taxi violence, as exemplified in their involvement in the Durban Long Distance Taxi Association.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  Reference has been made to the unfinished business which arose out of an agreement for peace and reconciliation, which was signed at the Union Buildings on 19 of April 1994.  It is sad to state that that honourable agreement was never honoured.  Hence international mediation was scuttled.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order!

THE PREMIER:  It is precisely because constitutional issues were not resolved through international mediation that we are still saddled with the matter which was raised by His Majesty, namely issues around the role and status of His Majesty.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  May it be recorded that the constitutional amendments which have been piloted by the IFP in the National Parliament, aim at bringing relief and filling those gaps which remained when there was dishonour of the April 1994 Agreement.

Mr Speaker, let us take stock of developments during the past five years.  The period under review presented our Province with immense problems and challenges.  The transition was difficult.  We experienced conflicts, tensions, inefficiency and lack of co-operation, but we have overcome some of these difficulties.  We now commit ourselves to a productive legislative phase which is characterised by resolute actions, co-operation and positive thinking.

We must isolate those who are not willing to co-operate in our shared vision of making KwaZulu-Natal a successful and prosperous Province.  We should harness the positive energy of all people of goodwill of our Province.  We should send out a loud and clear message that those who engage in obstructionist tactics will not be tolerated.  We commit ourselves to hard work and high levels of performance.

In the past five years, cordial relations were forged between our Provincial Government and business.  We commit ourselves to a strong partnership with business.  My Government will promote a culture of productivity.

We shall uphold discipline and strengthen individual and collective responsibility within the public sector.  We place a high premium on moral renewal.  We shall uphold the rule of Law.

We should take responsibility for the transformation of our communities.  Our goal is that communities become primary building blocks of our society and government.  We must make this Province governable.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We should empower our communities and charge them with the responsibility of delivering results.  Communities should focus on their social upliftment and the promotion of economic growth.

The presence of His Majesty in this House today, prompts me to commit my Government to resolving an important matter, which has been outstanding for too long.  We must adopt legislation to ensure that our Province properly recognises and regulates the institution of the Monarchy.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We owe our provincial identity and social stability to the institution of the Monarchy.  We are proud of the institution of the Monarchy, and we shall strive for its protection and preservation.  The prestigious institution of the Monarchy should remain untainted by demeaning controversies and politics.  We must maintain the dignity and unifying role of His Majesty.

Members of this House should ensure that legislation affecting the Monarchy is the product of broad-based consensus.  We wish the Monarchy to be acknowledged as the constitutional head of our Provincial Government.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  This imposes an obligation on all citizens of KwaZulu-Natal.  We hope that this session of our Provincial Parliament will be distinguished by a new sense of responsibility, parliamentary decorum and propriety.  The Parliament of KwaZulu-Natal has so far suffered from a lack of internal discipline, and from the excesses that some of its members indulge in.  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE PREMIER:  I hope that we shall commit ourselves to transform accusations into political debates, informed by facts rather than propaganda.  Let us engage in vibrant debates in this Chamber.  Let us demonstrate that we can be truly democratic and that we can disagree without being disagreeable.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  In response to some erroneous speculation which appeared in the Press, I wish to clarify that the commitment and the style of my Government shall be one which brings the Premier wherever the need is called for.  I intend to be present in Durban, in Ulundi, in Eshowe, in Ubombo, Pietermaritzburg, Richmond, KwaMashu and wherever else the Premier must be.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND APPLAUSE.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order, please!  Let us give the Premier a hearing, please.

THE PREMIER:  The fact that I hold my primary office in Ulundi should not be construed as my having made any decision in respect of the issue of the capital of our Province.  The capital of our Province must be decided by the Province itself, and must be a decision which reflects the needs and wishes of the majority of our people.

During the past five years Parliament in Cape Town has adopted hundreds of Bills, irrespective of political party differences.  All political parties represented in Parliament committed themselves to an acceptable work tempo, and the avoidance of actions which undermine the efficiency and productivity of the legislative process.  We must demonstrate that this Parliament can live up to the example set by Parliament in Cape Town.  Indeed, we can set a higher standard of performance.  Let a new sense of pride start from this Parliament and spread throughout the Province.  Let us show that there is strong responsible leadership in this Parliament which knows how to lead by example.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE PREMIER:  KwaZulu-Natal is committed to noble objectives.  Indeed, our parliamentarians will honour their responsibilities and boost the image of our Province. 
[pg 140 ln 13- pg 145 ln 21]

TRANSLATION:  Members of the public visiting us, are requested that from here they go south where they will get refreshments.  Members of the Royal House, AmaKhosi and counsellors present are requested to go to the hall at B South where they will get refreshments.  Thank you.  T/E
[pg 147 ln 4-6]

[May God bless you all].
(pg 192 ln 9)

TRANSLATION:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, firstly I want to praise the hon Nxamalala and his Department for putting before this Legislature such an important Bill.  Firstly, the truth is, it has been a long time since the advent of the Government of KwaZulu-Natal in 1994.  

Whenever dealing with budget allocations, we have always talked and said that we must make haste the matter of transforming the Corporation, the KFC.  Therefore, this Bill that is before us is most important.  Its importance, Mr Speaker, stems from the fact that we know, as the hon Minister in charge of this Department has said, there have been many views regarding the functioning of the KFC.  It worked well.  

There were areas of complaint, but above all that, it was also discovered that the major problem facing it was its legal authority, which made it unsuccessful in properly discharging its assigned duties.

What is important, Mr Speaker, is that this Bill will bring about transformation, once it passes and becomes law.  We hope that among the things it contains, that will require a great deal of attention, the first one is that there will be a need to put forward programmes that will quickly create visible change in the lives of the people of this Province of KwaZulu-Natal.

This is in line with the document that the hon Minister in charge of this Department was talking about, which authorises the Board that will be put in place, to cater for the programmes which will have a readily visible impact in creating change in the lives of many people in this region.

Beyond that, Mr Speaker, what is also important is that the new Board, once it is put in place, will need to pay close attention to a situation regarding financial independence of the new Ithala Corporation.  It must be able to function on its own, without expecting that there will be anything else it will receive from government resources, as we all know that the budget we have is not sufficient to fulfil all the developmental functions for the public.

Therefore, we believe that some of the functions of the Board that will be in place, would be to provide us, as the Legislature, and structures of the Legislature, a clear programme on what will be done, so that Ithala will be able to be financially independent and not lean on the government.

Something else I think is important is that Ithala, as a corporation, will be working freely, without limitations of power and working under new circumstances where there are new opportunities.  We will need to observe the governing structures of Ithala.  We will have to see people of colour rising in all levels and being able to manage in management seats, particularly those people who were previously disadvantaged have to be given opportunities to be in management positions.  This is the transformation we need to see taking place.

From the new Board, once it has been selected, we expect it will also have a programme, that it will be able to place before us, as the Legislature, as government, on how it will ensure that true transformation at that level also takes place.

With those words, Mr Speaker, I wish to say that we accept this law on the grounds that we believe it will bring about improvement.  If there is any place that is lacking, transformation is something continuous, it happens all the time, Mr Speaker.  T/E

(pg 203 ln 15)

[We are grateful to the hon member.  I am now going to give the opportunity to the hon member Mr Edwards, who will speak for only six minutes].
(pg 205 ln 10)

[I am going to call upon the hon member Mrs Downs who only has two minutes].
(pg 211 ln 16)

[Thank you.  I now ask the hon member, the hon Minister of Works, Minister Mtetwa, who will speak for five minutes].
(pg 212 ln 13)

TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, I am very pleased that you have given me this opportunity, even though it is brief.  You give such an elderly person five minutes?  But then, I will just speak on such a very important matter.  In the law we are discussing lies the key for our meeting in this House, in four words.  In church I believe in three words.  In these four words, I wish for us to hear clearly the words Development, Finance, Corporation and Investment.  These things are all present in this law.  This completes our meeting in this House.

Although sometimes it is saddening, allow me, just briefly, Mr Speaker, to just speak foolishly to them, today will be the last time.  I grew up in a polygamous home.  You see, in a home where there is a plurality of wives.  It happens that a person just starts speaking from morning until sunset, just talking defiantly and telling others off.  

In this House you sometimes listen when people are said to be speaking, yet they are just being defiant and telling others off.  Now I am saying, when we take care of these things, it would be better to put aside defiance and telling others off, and that this enter our minds.

Regarding development, if we could be developed here, upstairs, it would help us in being able to develop this country.  [LAUGHTER]  You see, Dumisani Makhaye, listen, Makhaye, I am directing this to you, you Africans.  You see, as a government of Africans, I do not care which party is governing, but if it fails, every existing African person in this world has failed.  Now we should make this noise over there at the bar, not here, because this is an hon House.

You see, here you must ask the United Party.  [LAUGHTER]  Bear with me, I will soon be finished, my time is short, I would have spoken.  You see, these whites, there is no group of people that God respected and gave all knowledge existing in this world.  

There is nothing they cannot do with their hands and minds, but he deprived them of wisdom.  [LAUGHTER]  You see, if He had also given them wisdom, they would not have failed to govern this country.  Now what caused their failure is that God, in his mystery, hid wisdom from them.  He gave them all existing knowledge.

Us, as far as knowledge is concerned, we are still unable even to repair a bicycle wheel, but as far as wisdom is concerned, we defeat them.  Now I am saying, we must understand each other well.  They must bring this knowledge and we must bring wisdom, sit down here and combine these things.  In that way we will be able to govern this country.

Because you are young, you are saying, "Democracy, democracy".  They failed, despite it.  They brought it with them, floating above their heads.  You must learn the wisdom of God, so that you will be able to develop this country and our nation, so that we can be a healthy nation, and be a true Rainbow Nation.  But if you carry on this way, you will create an Angola, I am telling you.

Now I am saying, a law such as this, is the only law you have for the direct development of the country.  You must take it with you when you leave this House, for it to always resonate in your minds, and ask what we are going to do with this law, as our aim and the reason we were brought here is to develop this country.

We should not get out of here emulating whites.  You know, God gave them knowledge.  They repair aeroplanes, they repair ships, they repair guns, even the money is with them, the meat is with them, mealie meal is with them, He gave us to them to work for them without pay.  They failed.  [LAUGHTER]  

Tell me, what were they lacking?  They were not lacking anything, yet they failed because they did not know that they were in need of one thing, wisdom alone.  We remained with the key.  Whatever they said or did, we realised they would shoot and kill us.  Whatever they said or did, we said, "Yes, Boss".  [LAUGHTER]  They said jumped from here to there, we said, "Yes, Boss".  We knew that because God was still alive, one day, one day He would respond.  Now, if we too, are going to forget and be taken up by abortions and be in conflict with God, he will forsake us one day, just like them.  Be careful.

This is what we have to get to grips with, developing our country, developing upstairs.  When we speak, let us not speak defiantly, telling others off.  Thank you, Speaker.  [APPLAUSE]  T/E

(pg 217)

TRANSLATION:  No, order, please!  There is a new custom emerging, that of clapping hands.  I think it is a new custom.  I would say this custom will be dangerous.  A good custom of expressing gratitude is that which says, "Hear!  Hear!".  Clapping hands, we sometimes see it over there, not here in KwaZulu-Natal.

Let me continue.  I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr Mkhwanazi.  He will speak for two minutes.  T/E

[Now we come to item 8.4].
(pg 221)

TRANSLATION:  Hon members, I wish to say that yesterday afternoon, after the adjournment of the House, I received a letter written to me by political parties, which are the ACDP, PAC, National Party, ANC, Democratic Party, reporting, that these hon members would not be present today.  

I wish to thank the members I see who are present, some of them who had written these letters, and say that according to Rule 17 of the Rules of Procedure, which explains about the absence of members, it states that a member - it does not refer to a party, it refers to a member - I wish for it to be clear here, that if there are apologies, it would be good for them to be made by a member, not parties.

Secondly, what I wish to explain here is that Rule 10 in the Rules of Procedures, states clearly the one who has the right to authorise the sitting of Parliament and the time when the Parliament can sit.  Rule 80 explains the procedure of conducting the functions of the House and by whom.  Therefore, I wish for it to be clear that unfortunately this letter arrived when I had already made the decision that the House would sit today, as it is sitting.

I would like to express sadness at the manner in which members, or political parties, handle the House in the manner in which they are handling it.  I am saying, it would be bad for the people we lead, and the people who are expecting something from us, that parties express themselves in this manner.  
I think that each and every member is employed to serve the nation.  In that way, it would be nice for members to understand that and know that what is primary is serving the nation.  After that, they could look at what their political parties are saying.  It bothers me if politicians, or political parties, wage, what is called a political boycott of Parliament.  That would be a great danger.  I thought I should say this because it bothers me for this to have happened.

I would like to convey that I do not know whether the letter was written before I made the decision, but I picked it up after the adjournment of the House.  That is what I wished to express so that in future we do not do this thing, or turn the House into a circus, that we should know that we have been sent by the people and we represent the people.

Let us move on.  Therefore, I wish to thank the parties present, the New National Party, which is represented, the PAC, for their presence, as it is their duty to be present.  They were party to the writing of this letter.  T/E
(pg 229-230)

[Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity you are giving me.  I wish to just start by congratulating Mrs Shandu for the good words she expressed earlier].  
(pg 277)

[The honourable member's time is up].

[Thank you Mr Speaker].

[We are very pleased].

TRANSLATION:  Let me proceed and go to Mr Mantshinga.  Your speech Mr Premier of the Province was a straight forward speech.  It was about things that have to be done; things you want to do; and they are good things.

Therefore, we in the PAC find it difficult to attempt to criticise your speech too much, except that we want to state one thing: Let us hope you will practice what you preach.  This is all we wish to see happen.

You touched upon a number of things.  You spoke of things that are destroying the Province, and destroying the country.  The issue of crime has become an epidemic.  Crime is allowing criminals to rule this country instead of the good people who are governing it.  

Let us hope that you and iNkosi Ngubane will work closely with your police and co-operate with the National Government, as you have stated.  In your speech you said you will co-operate with the National Government, because one of the things that retards progress locally, is the lack of co-operation between the Provincial Government and the National Government.  Let us hope that it will be so.

You mentioned that you will bring suggestions and people can sit down and discuss your proposals.  One is grateful for that.  I hope that you bring your ideas and those ideas will be discussed.  

Maybe as a leader, you are not obliged to accept all views.  However, let us hope that, as one of the hon members said, things will happen as you stated Mantshinga.

You have talked about flexibility in accommodating legitimate interests and expectations.  This Province has the representation of all the people existing on this earth which was created by God.  T/E
(pg 279)

[You are the one who goes to bed with the IFP and yet you are pointing fingers at me].
(pg 280)

[People who have never herded cattle will always be identified through their work.  They will be identified through the slanderous words they use to insult other people].
(pg 301)

[I am asking members to behave themselves].  There should be good behaviour, you should listen.
(pg 301)

[Happy is he who knows the one who is insulting me with those slanderous words.  Lack of cattle herding experience will always reveal itself as a problem].
(pg 303)

TRANSLATION:  Yesterday Khilani said to me I have made it here with all the funds of Parliament to an extent that I have been made to wear spectacles.  Khilani and others just like to speak.  We, especially those of us who are not good at speaking, we just keep quiet like sheep.  [LAUGHTER]  T/E
(pg 306)

TRANSLATION:  All of them from Magalela agasele njengeNgonyama, uHlabangane, uMantshinga abafokazana abaxoshe, to Mr Nxamalala Msholozi and other Ministers appeared before this committee and the Prince of Kwa-Minya appeared before this committee. T/E
(pg 324)

[We were at each others throats]
(pg 325)

[A skewed one that is weak.  We are going to bring a strong one that will dig up everything that is hidden.  Some people will regret that they ever called for it, because it is coming.  The Commission is really coming now, it is coming].(pg 331)

[The Commission is really coming]. (pg 331)

[The Reverend used to say the path to heaven goes via your neighbour].
(pg 331)

[Even their cockroaches are very big]. (pg 332)

Because people are now attacking and killing each other secretly, that is what is extremely awful]
(pg 373)

[In other words I am saying that we are not equal.  It is not a reality, Africans, we are not yet equal.  We wish for equality.  It is like a person starting ...] [In other words I am saying that we are not equal.  It is not a reality, Africans, we are not yet equal.  We wish for equality.  It is like a person starting ...]  
(pg 374)

[Let us proceed].

[They say "Oh, they have used the money, we will not get that money, they have used it"].  When the Minister drives a new Mercedes-Benz they say awu! nayi imali yethu.  [They say, "Oh, there is our money"].
(pg 375)

[Mkhwanazi is travelling using our money]. (pg 374)

[The hon member is left with only two minutes].
 (pg 375)

TRANSLATION:  Let me express this briefly in Zulu.  We, the PAC, say land should be allocated accordingly.  We are saying land should not be made a commodity, particularly land that is under the jurisdiction of Amakhosi, because that land under Amakhosi belongs to the people.  

Making that land a commodity and commercialising it is the reason people flood into informal settlements, running away from the areas.  As the white people did when they arrived, when people refused to go to the mines, they killed cattle in rural areas and took land away from them.  Thank you, Speaker.  T/E
(pg 376)

.  [Thank you very much, Sir].

[We were given overcoats when white people were given bicycles and farms].
(pg 400)

[He said something].
(pg 401)
[I do not want to say where the Premier lives].(pg 404)

[They do not hit him with an iron rod again]. (Pg 405)]

[commemorative plaques]
(pg 404)

TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, let me say thank you for the opportunity am I getting, for honouring me so that I can express myself in this House.  Firstly, let me say thank you for the clarity presented here by the hon Mr Peter Miller regarding finance.  I also join with all the members who spoke earlier in saying that today's budget is much better, something can be accomplished with it.

Firstly, Mr Speaker, I will respond to the hon Mr Manzankosi's speech, where he says in all this time the KwaZulu Government is seen to have not accomplished anything.  I am saying that it is not true, I have witnesses who are in this House.  

The KwaZulu Government under the leadership of Prince M G Buthelezi, did a lot of work, because it built schools that I believe produced doctors who are among us.  Across there, there is the hon Dr Zweli Mkhize who was educated at Kwa-Dlangezwa High School, at schools that were built by the KwaZulu Government.  Today he has got degrees.

Let me proceed.  Our Government built clinics where our people were able to get help.  Today we have a Minister over there who is in charge of clinics that were built by the KwaZulu Government.  Similarly, those clinics were built by the old government and opened by it.  There are many I can count.  

My hon brothers, Gcabashe and others, we have here experienced men, Mr Madondo and others over there, who lived under that government.  We have stout short men like Madondo here today, they were under the Government of Amakhosi, they worked and ate.  Mr Magabane and others here left their bags that they used as traditional leaders.  [LAUGHTER]  All because of our KwaZulu Government.

I thought I should respond to Mr Manzankosi so that it would not sound bad as though our old government did not accomplish anything.  The hon Inkosi over there, we used to go to school together at Bhekuzulu, an educational institution for Amakhosi.  Here he is, having been trained at a school built by the KwaZulu Government.  It is so, hon Inkosi of the Nation, we went to school with Inkosi.  Therefore, our old KwaZulu Government worked a great deal.  

Our KwaZulu Government accomplished a lot, because it even employed children of orphans, who in their numbers, are at Ulundi.  It employed teachers who were never ever expelled.  We are amazed today when teachers are being expelled.  But then, forgive me, I am not talking about that.

Our KwaZulu Government brought in firms, in places such as Isithebe and Madadeni.  An incredible thing happened, Mabuyakhulu, not the one in this House, and others arrived.  [LAUGHTER]  Mabuyakhulu and others arrived at places such as Isithebe and Madadeni.  They messed up things, putting in COSATU, people were expelled, people went hungry.  

Therefore, sir, I am saying, it is true that in these five years starting from 1994 when we went to the elections, we saw peace as we went to the elections.  But now, as we go to the second election, we are beginning to again see the re-emergence of violence.  We also read the newspapers.  There are men among us, some of them are among us in this very House, who are running weapons in order to kill IFP members.  We learnt this from the newspaper.  They are also informing us.  T/E
(pg 408)

[Something he said and then for him to ask what he had said, because he is the one who spoke, so he must withdraw it].
(pg 408 ln 20)

[I ask that there be proper behaviour, hon member Mr Cele and Mr Makhaye].
(pg 412 ln 2)

TRANSLATION:  I was saying, I wish to say that the corruption of lies existing so abundantly in this country is what is going to cause us to look at each other with hostility and fight each other.  As my sister the hon madam across there spoke about the issue of Inyoni, it is true, because those in the Press once said that the areas of Mathaba and other Amakhosi, are no-go areas, but I think that we work well with members of the African National Congress.  Therefore, I have a serious complaint that when a person is disturbed - I need assistance, please.

If it is so, Mr Speaker, I am saying if there is anyone with information that there were members of the ANC who were disturbed, why are cases not being opened?  If Mathaba is the one carrying a gun, so why is Mathaba not being arrested if it is so?  
Therefore, I am saying this is a warning I am sending to those in the press and those who are instigating violence in this country.  On this side we will not tolerate that.  We are tired of violence, we know violence.  Being Amakhosi that we are, you used to make us lie on our stomachs and shoot us, therefore we are not prepared to return to an area like that.

Therefore I am saying, peace is a function of Amakhosi.

Mr Speaker, I think that I will receive my injury time.  I have been disturbed quite a lot.  [LAUGHTER]  Mr Speaker, I would ask that we speak about peace right now.  Peace is something that is a creation of Amakhosi.  Councillors and others are fairly new, they know nothing about peace.  

Amakhosi were the ones governing the people.  We, Amakhosi, were the ones governing Gcabashe and others.  We were the ones governing Cele and others in our areas.  The hon Cele, coming from Port Shepstone was under the administration of Amakhosi.  Today he is a man of this size.  He was under the administration of Amakhosi at Shobashobane.

I am saying, the very reason we were born was to govern over you.  When one talks about the welfare of the community it is us, Amakhosi, who have to be asked about that.  Besides, the laws and rules that you legislate and those legislated by the National Government in this country, place us in conflict with our communities.  
We are saying, even if the National Government can come up with legislation as far as it wants, we will never be able to respect that legislation if it does not respect our dignity as Amakhosi.  That will not be the first time.  Even with the whites we did it.  As Amakhosi, we opted that our Amakhosi go into prisons, go into exile.  But I think that in this Government, I am a part of, I should ask that there be co-operation.

The speech presented by Magalela here was very good, because that was the objective with the Prince of KwaPhindangene, who was the leader in KwaZulu, and even now, we are proceeding with it.  May I please make another example of what the National Government is doing to us.  In recent days I was visiting Mpumalanga, where we have made gains with the community.  Mpumalanga is a very rich country.

The IFP is just collecting votes.  The IFP is now collecting votes, but I have one problem.  There at Kwa-Mahlalela at Mbuzane, Inkosi, of the area was driven away by ANC members.  Amakhosi are not taken care of, yet we found that in Pietermaritzburg if a black person...  

THE SPEAKER:  I ask that there be proper behaviour, hon member Mr Cele and Mr Makhaye.  Thank you.

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  You are lucky you survived.  What I wanted to say regarding my Inkosi Mahlalela, he is not there, he is not with his nation.  His nation wants him.  

Therefore, I am asking the National Government that if it likes Amakhosi and it likes traditional leadership, why then is it not assisting Inkosi?  Why is it that the government is always the one that messes up things?  

Also, my second question, why is he not imprisoned?  Also, my second question is, when the hon Dr Mandela went to worship and dance with the Nazarene Congregation, why did he tell the Prince of KwaPhindangene that he was going to lay to rest an Inkosi, to bury an Inkosi, referring to an ordinary person?

This hon who is here in front of me, Mr Ndosi, in whose committee I serve, we had discussions about this issue and that they should not refer to Bhekuyise as an Inkosi because Bhekuyise Ephraim Ngwane, who today is deceased, is not an Inkosi.  Yet, on 27 February, Dr Mandela went to bury a person having said he is an Inkosi.  I wish to inform this Parliament to inform this House that ...  T/E
(pg 412 - 414)

[The hon member Inkosi Mathaba has a minute left]. 
(pg 415 ln 6)

[My injury time].
(pg 415 ln 9)

[I would like to ask whether Inkosi can take a question]?
(pg 415 ln 11)

TRANSLATION:  When I am finished, in one minute, Gcabashe.  I wish to say that in 1996, the KwaZulu Government, under the attorneys Friedman and Falconer, issued a letter to the Inkosi currently in charge.  That person lost the case of being an Inkosi.  He has never been an Inkosi.  

An hon person in a high position is seen talking about traditional leadership.  Therefore, I do not believe that those of you sitting on that side like traditional leadership.  But we will remain Amakhosi until the return of Jesus Christ from heaven.  Thank you.  T/E
(pg 415 ln 6- 416 ln 3)

TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, we heard that Inkosi Mathaba and the IFP are just making gains at Mpumalanga.  We want to remind him to be careful that they do not loose the local vote.  T/E
(pg 415 ln 16)


TRANSLATION:  Thank you, hon Speaker, hon Premier and the hon House.  I commend Mr Miller's budget and his work.  Mr Speaker, I am fearful, fearful for us women and our children.  This fear originates from the speeches I heard, particularly those that awake us in the morning, coming from leaders across there in this House, which, as I see them, are not constructive, which to me, seem to be igniting the fire of words.  

I then ask myself, Mr Speaker, if there will be any peace in this country of ours if our leaders use these type of words.  I then become fearful on whether this country, this coming election, will be a free election, or an election where everyone will be running.

What is bad is what I heard said before us by the hon son of the minister of religion, the hon Manzankosi.  Unfortunately he has left.  We worship together at the Lutheran Church, yet the words coming from him terrify me.  I know that this is not worship, it is politics.  

The hon member says their commission is the real commission that will investigate.  This means that the commission charged with investigating guns that people have been talking about is not real, because it was not elected by the State President.

It terrifies me to think whether the State President is still using his powers as State President, or whether he is using the powers of a party.  If he is going to charge a commission to investigate, he must investigate for us the whereabouts of the guns that the hon Jeff Radebe acknowledged.  He went to the TRC and said he was running guns into KwaZulu-Natal.  Where are they?  
If there is to be an investigation, then investigate.  Before we sat in this House, some of the members who are across, used to put them in rubbish bins.  At night you would go to sleep and wake up to find that the rubbish bin is no longer there in Lamontville.  The rubbish bin would be at the graveyard at Kwa-Gijima.  The guns that used to be placed in rubbish bins, should be brought back so that we can see that this country is supposed to be what it should be.  T/E
(pg 437 ln 90 438 ln 9)

TRANSLATION:  I hope, hon member, that you will give me my time that you have taken.  We also ask that when there is an investigation, they investigate the whereabouts of the people who killed more than 400 IFP leaders.  Where are those who killed thousands upon thousands of IFP supporters?  It would be nice if their commission can investigate all this.

Hon Speaker, we are going to elections.  We want elections to be free.  We want an election where we do not feel fearful because of the words I spoke about.  Our followers and other people in the community should feel that they are going to participate in something that belongs to them, something they like and where they will choose for themselves.

Another thing, Mr Speaker, that should stop is that in townships, when people want something from a councillor, that councillor would say he would not do it until those people first vote for him.  Secondly, maybe because the hon member is no longer here, I should ask that he be told that he must go and find information on the number of IFP councillors at Umlazi, because it is clear that the hon member received wrong information.  There too, we must go and find out the number of councillors.

Mr Speaker, the promises we heard four years ago, particularly coming from the hon Minister of Transport, are threatening to confuse us, because we are entering the fifth year now, we are almost finished.  The hon Minister said he would build roads leading to his Majesty's palace.  We saw during the opening in February His Majesty arrived late.  It was a disgrace that His Majesty had a punctured car tyre.  What causes a puncture?  There are no roads.  

Nothing has been built since the KwaZulu Government built.  The hon Minister said he would put bottle-like surfaces on all roads leading to the palace of His Majesty.  Until today we have not yet seen that.  The shining one is the one that is bottle-like.

Mr Speaker, we have a problem where we live in townships.  People find that councillors charge them for water.  My brother Mthiyane said that in one month you were told to pay R600 for water.  When a person goes to a councillor for help in finding out why there is such a debt, the councillor would say: "You would have to vote for me.  If you vote for me, then I will help you".  Until when will people continue to be made to live in fear?  A person will not have the freedom to choose if he or she has to pay with his vote for sending a civil servant.  We want an election without intimidation.

Last November, Speaker, an Induna, Aaron Mthembu, who was an IFP member and who used to live at CC Section, was killed.  When there was an outbreak of violence at CC Section, he fled to Engonyameni.  He returned from Engonyameni.  When he was going to his work-place at 6 o'clock in the morning, Mthembu was killed with AK 47 rifles by ANC people who were caught.  

But what is said is that having been found with illegal firearms, as well as his legal firearms that they took from him when he died, this country that lacks true law, at the beginning of this month, dropped charges of killing Mthembu.  The murderers are left with the charge of possessing firearms and bullets.  In other words, it shows, Mr Speaker, that the life to an ANC member is nothing, it is something that is not considered if even the law is partial.

I would now like to ask for us to co-operate in order to build this country and build it for peace.  I want to say that we are tired of heated discussions that perpetuate violence in this country.  Expressions we hear in the morning when we are supposed to create peace, when there is supposed to be reconciliation, yet you find that there is no reconciliation.  There is no reconciliation, there is just violence.

I ask the leaders of the African National Congress not to spread a war that no longer exists.  They should spread a war for peace.  There should be peace.  If we really want co-operation in discussions, we should co-operate by not deceiving each other.  We should not talk peace on one side and smuggle in people to do evil things on the other.  

This issue of gun-running that we hear about in the Midlands, should stop.  They take them from a company that has been mentioned, in order to kill IFP leaders.  Thank you, Speaker.  T/E
(pg 441 ln 8- 443 ln 10)

[Thank you, member].
(pg 443 ln 12)




	DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF

	KWAZULU-NATAL PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURE

	SIXTH SESSION
	FIRST SITTING - FIRST SITTING DAY
	WEDNESDAY, 10 FEBRUARY 1999

THE HOUSE MET AT 14:25 IN THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER, ULUNDI.  THE SPEAKER TOOK THE CHAIR AND READ THE PRAYER.

THE SPEAKER:  The house resumes.

2.	OBITUARIES AND OTHER CEREMONIAL MATTERS

THE SPEAKER:  I regret to report that the hon member, Mr Haripersaad, passed away in December last year.  I also wish to report that a senior official from the Department of the Legislature, Mr Nxumalo, passed away during the same month.  I will therefore call upon all members to rise.

HON MEMBERS STAND

THE SPEAKER:  May their souls rest in peace.  Amen.

3.	ELECTION OF THE PREMIER

THE SPEAKER:  I hope members are aware that the previous Premier, the hon Dr Ngubane has resigned.  Therefore there is a vacancy in the office of the Premier.  Arrangements have been made to fill this vacancy during this sitting.  In accordance with Section 128 (2) of the Constitution, the President of the Constitutional Court has designated the hon Mr Justice V E M Tshabalala, Deputy Judge President of the High Court in KwaZulu-Natal, to preside over the elections.  I therefore welcome the hon Mr Justice Tshabalala to our Legislature.  I now hand the Chair over to the hon Judge, Mr Tshabalala, to conduct the election.  Thank you.

MR JUSTICE TSHABALALA:  Thank you.  I declare the election open.  Will the returning officer and the assistant returning officers come forward to take the prescribed oath.

RETURNING OFFICERS TAKE THE PRESCRIBED OATH

MR JUSTICE TSHABALALA:  I am advised that the nomination forms have been issued to political parties.  I now call for the nomination of candidates on the prescribed form to be handed to the returning officer.  Is the returning officer satisfied with the nomination form?

RETURNING OFFICER:  I am satisfied.

MR JUSTICE TSHABALALA:  In view of the fact that a single candidate has been nominated in accordance with Schedule 3, Part A, Item 5 of the Constitution, I declare the elected candidate Premier of KwaZulu-Natal.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR JUSTICE TSHABALALA:  Please come forward to take the oath or solemn affirmation.  Who is the proposer?  I think the proposer has to accompany the elected member.

Do you choose to take an oath or make a solemn affirmation?  Please raise your hand and read the prescribed oath.

MR L P H M MTSHALI SWORN IN AS THE PREMIER OF KWAZULU-NATAL

MR JUSTICE TSHABALALA:  Congratulations.  I now declare this election closed.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!  [APPLAUSE]

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Thank you, hon Judge Tshabalala, for conducting the election of the Premier.  I will now call upon the Leader of the House, Mr M B Gwala, to perform a duty.  As this period between now and May will be the last term of the First Legislature of KwaZulu-Natal, we thought it would be proper to show our appreciation to the High Court for the support we have received over the past five years.  Therefore, we would request the Leader of the House to present a gift from this House, although small, but with our sincerest thanks to you, your hon, for assisting this House in the past.  The hon member, the Leader of the House, Mr Gwala.

MR M B GWALA PRESENTS A GIFT TO MR JUSTICE TSHABALALA

HON MEMBERS:  APPLAUSE.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  I will now call upon the hon the Premier of this Province, Mr Mtshali.  Thank you.

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker and hon members, it is with deep humility and commitment that I accept the immense responsibilities of the office of Premier of the Province of KwaZulu-Natal.  It is indeed a privilege to serve the people of this Province.  May the Lord Almighty guide me and fill me with wisdom, understanding and patience.

I step into the shoes of a colleague, Dr B S Ngubane.  During his term of office he launched commendable initiatives.  The building blocks that he laid will enable us to consolidate service delivery to the people of this Province.

My Party has given me a powerful mandate to apply my knowledge and skills to make the Government of KwaZulu-Natal work.  I am committed to dedicated service, and to the promotion of the revolution of goodwill.  I acknowledge and respect linguistic, cultural and religious diversity.  I shall uphold and promote multi-partyism which underpins our democracy.

We face the challenge of building provincial consensus and reconciliation.  Let us roll up our sleeves and commit ourselves to hard work.  This legislature should rise to the challenge of efficiency and good governance.

We should reform the KwaZulu-Natal Government and make it work.  We wish to consolidate the many proposals made in this House during the past five years.  We shall gather new ideas to promote the reform of government.

We shall review the present structuring of government not only in respect of its horizontal but also in its vertical divisions.  We will need to re-aggregate the existing line functions in a more coherent and effective manner.  We will need to create uniform delivery districts which take into account the reality of regional and local government.  We will need to devolve administrative capacity, resources and decision-making power to local government and communities.

We give notice that the style of government is changing.  We challenge parliamentarians and the public sector to embrace the culture of hard work.  The civil service must develop a culture of discipline and service which recognises and rewards personal dedication and achievement.  We commit ourselves to clean administration and to the eradication of corrupt and indolent practices.

We shall uphold financial discipline in all provincial departments.  We are committed to efficient and judicious expenditure of resources.  We sound a clarion call that heads of departments should make difficult choices within the constraints of their budgets.  We call for the matching of budgets to priority needs of the people.  All departments should review their bureaucratic structures in order to free resources targeted for development.

We intend to strengthen the delivery capacity of the Office of the Premier.  The Office of the Premier should be accessible, and it should interface with the various segments of our provincial society.  The Premier's office should be the centre of co-ordination of all government functions.  We hope that the business community will assist us to create a permanent and adequately staffed liaison bureau between the Office of the Premier and the business sector of our Province.  We wish to strengthen the capacity of the Office of the Premier to deal with issues relating to economic growth, trade and industry and community development.

We intend to revive the Bureau of Community Development which was initiated by the hon Dr M G Buthelezi to deal with the problem of poverty which plagues the majority of our people.  We commit our best efforts to ensure that the fight against poverty remains a priority of this Government, directly driven from the Office of the Premier.  We shall ensure that the fight against poverty is not hindered by government inefficiency, lack of co-ordination and waste.  For this reason, we intend to establish within our office a Bureau of Community Development which will co-ordinate all line functions engaged in the fight against poverty and community development programmes.

We place a high premium on education.  We commit this Province to the promotion of quality teaching and learning.  We call for a review of popular secondary education.  We call for a shift of emphasis to vocational education.

We challenge this Provincial Government to develop an aggressive legislative programme.  Some aspects of this legislative programme could include the establishment of a provincial police monitoring board, a statutory framework for successful initiatives to combat crime, consumer protection, the establishment of a provincial public broadcaster, and so on.  This Parliament should accept that one or two day sessions should be replaced by longer sessions on a more continuous basis.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  This would also reduce some of the disproportionately high costs of running this Parliament.

It is common knowledge that we are strong advocates of provincial autonomy.  We regard ourselves as a provincial government rather than a provincial administration.  We hope that we shall soon reach consensus to adopt a provincial flag and coat of arms along with legislation defining the language policy to be followed by our Government.  We hope that we shall finally reach consensus on the legislation necessary to protect and recognise the status of our Monarchy and His Majesty the King.

We shall also need to face the challenge of local government as it now emerges out of the transitional period.  Local government will need to integrate traditional regional authority, and reflect the diversity our communities.  Local government will increasingly become the most important level of immediate delivery of services to our people.  We should not only ensure that traditional leadership is on board, but we should also go further.  Traditional leadership is an important element in the governance of this Province.  We value the role of traditional leadership.  We advocate its expansion and retention.

It is incumbent upon me to give credit to my leader, the Prince of KwaPhindangene, for the developmental and constitutional initiatives he undertook a quarter of a century ago in this Province.  I remain inspired by this great leader and by his vision.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  I hope that together, we can revive the dreams of the KwaZulu-Natal Indaba, and the hopes which we always held that unity of intent and purpose will finally triumph in this Province.

I felt it important to outline my intentions and proposals at the commencement of my premiership.  I hope that together we shall hit the road and run.

It is now my privilege to announce that I shall appoint Mrs Eileen Kankosi Shandu as Minister of Education and Culture.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!  [APPLAUSE]

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order!  Ngithokoza kakhulu.  Sizonikeza lelithuba amanye amaqembu ezombusazwe.  [I am very pleased.  We will give this opportunity to other political parties].

MR J G ZUMA:  Thank you, Mr Speaker, the hon House, I rise to congratulate our colleague, the Premier on being elected.  I think it is also appropriate to thank our previous Premier, Dr Ben Ngubane, as we were not given the opportunity to do so.  This House wants to express their appreciation towards the contribution he made.

I believe that Dr Ben Ngubane came to us to herd this Government.  He had to step into the shoes of Dr Frank Mdlalose, with whom we had worked very well.  He made a valuable contribution.  We as the parties in the case of Dr Mdlalose, felt that he was a father figure, ready to enhance and add value to the principle of a provincial government of unity, as well as working together to promote the principle of multi-party democracy.  I think it is fitting for us to express our appreciation and recognise the contribution he made.

I would also like express out appreciation towards our colleague, Dr Vincent Zulu.  He has also left and we did not have an opportunity to greet him.  I take this opportunity to concede that he handled one of the most difficult portfolios.  It has been to us, particularly, we who served with these two colleagues, an important era in the first five years of democratic KwaZulu Government, we worked very well with them.

I would therefore like to congratulate Hlabangane, the new Premier of the Province. We from the ANC, are ready to work with the new Premier and ensure that all his contributions and work will certainly be strengthened.  You will also add value to many important issues. 

This Province, as you know, Mr Speaker, has been a Province that has been vibrant in many directions.  Some of the issues that have existed in this Province were the tensions that existed among the parties and the two Premiers I referred to, made a contribution to try to address this, and I am indeed hopeful and very certain that the new Premier will do the same.

One of the issues that this Province has paid special attention to is the good working relations and the promotion of unity in the Province.  I hope that as we are already in the year of elections, and that tends at times to cause some emotional situations, we will be in a position to deal with this and that the new Premier will certainly, at times, rise above party interactions and act as a father figure of the citizens of this Province.

Therefore, in congratulating him, we are also saying that we have expectations, particularly given the track record of this Province and this Legislature.  I thought again it would be important to say these things in this House and to take this opportunity as the Premier puts across his intentions, that these intentions are going to be put in plexus and will always be debated and collectively dealt together with the other parties, as it has been the case.

We welcome you, Hlabangane, to this Province.  You will find us ready to work with you, as we have done with our other colleagues.

It will also be fitting to welcome our good sister, Eileen Kankosi Shandu, who has been given the responsibility of running Education in this Province.  What to me is of significance and importance is that for the first time in the Cabinet of KwaZulu-Natal, we have a lady colleague.  I think that will certainly give a fresh breeze to the Cabinet.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR J G ZUMA:  Therefore we expect that some of the issues, not only educational issues, but issues that affect women, will be debated in the Cabinet.  We also welcome and congratulate you.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  National Party, the hon Adv Schutte.

ADV D P A SCHUTTE:  Mr Speaker, on behalf of the New National Party, I would like to welcome our new Premier in our midst.  I would also like to congratulate him on his election as the new Premier.  My Party and I have only had cordial relations with the new Premier and we have got confidence in his ability to lead this Province well.  Mr Premier, we also wish you well in this very responsible and onerous task.

Mr Speaker, the hon Premier has committed himself to multi-party democracy, to effective government, to clean government and I must say to the hon Premier, we have great appreciation for that commitment.  From our side you can rest assured that we will support you.

We are also very grateful to hear his commitments with regard to a more effective parliament and more relevant parliament.  In that regard we will also support him.

He has also referred to many aspects which will actually bring this Province into its own and give the federal powers that this Province has, more teeth, and we will also support those initiatives.

Mr Speaker, as a Party we have stated that we will not support the election of this hon new Premier.  I must emphasize that that does not reflect in any way on the capability, or the integrity of the new Premier.  We believe that the circumstances which have given rise to this election were very unfortunate indeed, circumstances which we cannot condone.  There must be a very good reason for electing a new Premier three months before a general election, and there obviously was not that reason.

On a lighter note, I can only warn the new Premier that he must be very wary of his new position.  It must be the political position in the country with the shortest lifespan.  Indeed, this is the third election of a Premier in less than five years.  But personally, Mr Premier, we wish you well.

I would also like, on behalf of the New National Party, to pay tribute to the previous Premier, Dr Ben Ngubane.  It was indeed very sad to see the hon member leave so early, not to be accorded the opportunity of fully seeing out his term, and not to be accorded the opportunity of actually seeing the fruits of his toil.  Dr Ngubane was indeed a man sincerely committed to the economic growth of this Province, to clean, honest and effective administration, and he has done much in this regard.  As a person, he was very approachable and he was held in very high regard by all the communities.  We wish him very well in his new responsibilities.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to welcome in our midst and congratulate, Mrs Shandu.  We wish you well in your new position.  It is in the interests of all our children that you be successful and we believe that you can be successful.

I also wish to place on record our appreciation for the work of Dr Vincent Zulu.  He has not always seen the fruits of what he, I am sure, wanted to see, but his intentions were commendable, and we wish him well.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  DP, the hon Mr Burrows.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, the position of a Premier of a province is not that of first amongst equals, it is that of a Premier.  The person who is highest in status and the person who leads.  The honourable the incoming Premier has indicated that he has a series of proposals that he wishes the provincial government to carry out.  He is head of the provincial government.  We, who sit on this side of the House, cannot really influence, in many ways, the action of his provincial government, and so the status and importance of the role of Premier must not be lost sight of.

Political parties, as is their right, allocate the resources that they have at their command, where they choose.  The political party that is the majority party in this Province, has seen fit to place their faith in the Premier of the Province in the hands of Mr Lionel Hercules Mtshali.  Those hands will support not only the world, but they will have to support KwaZulu-Natal as well, and from the Democratic Party's point of view we wish to extend our best wishes to the incoming Premier.

We would also like to record our thanks to Dr Ben Ngubane, Premier of this Province for an 18 month period, a man enthusiastic and committed to the Province, a man popular in his ways around the Province.  He has served the Province well, and I have no doubt, will serve it again in the future.

We also extend our thanks, as a political party, to Dr V T Zulu.  May I, as Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Education and Culture, also extend, from the Portfolio Committee's side, our thanks to Dr Zulu for the work that he did during his period of office, as educationist.  He suffered under signal outside pressures, a point that we noted during our Portfolio meeting last week.  Ultimately, sir, as is the way of all of us in this House who are politicians, he had to bear the ultimate political responsibility of the office he held.

To the incoming Premier, Mr Mtshali, there are approximately 100 days to the election, unless the governing party at national level decides to change the date again.  In those 100 days, I believe that we in this Province, must look to the policy statement that the Premier spelt out today to be carried out in part, or in full.  I would urge that the policy statement he made to us today be distributed, not only to the media, but to every member of this House, and to the senior heads of departments in the Government.  He has 100 days to carry it out.  I hope he will start tomorrow.  He has his Party's faith in him.  We wish him well.  From all of us, I am sure in this House, we believe in KwaZulu-Natal first and foremost and we will support him in his efforts.

To the incoming Minister of Education and Culture, Mrs Eileen Kankosi Shandu, a lady I have known well in the past and will know well, I am sure, in the future, she brings her experience and knowledge in educational matters to this office.  She will suffer the same pressures and trials and tribulations as her predecessor.  We will support her from the Democratic Party in her efforts.  The Portfolio Committee, Madam Minister, will support you in your efforts.  To both you and to the Premier, we wish you well in your offices.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  PAC, hon member Baba Mkhwanazi.

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  We of the PAC would like to add our voice in congratulating our new Premier Magalelagase.  We welcome you.  At the same time we welcome you back home where your roots are.  I am sure amadlozi azojabula ukuthi uzokulale ekhaya kwenu esikhundleni sokuba undize ngebhanoyi Mantshinga. [the spirits of our departed will be happy that for a change you will sleep at your home, instead of flying in an aeroplane, Mantshinga].

By that we do not mean that you were not at home when you were in Cape Town, you were still at home, but you are closer to home when you are here.

We, of the PAC, will always support you where we feel you are going the right way, to the annoyance of your opponents, who, when we support you, say we must join you.  We will support you when you do well, but at the same time, we will criticise and disagree with you when it is necessary.  That is what the PAC is all about.  We are in nobody's pockets, although some of our friends would like us to be in their pockets. 

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER.

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  At this time we would also like to say a word.  We agree with the hon Zuma, that we did not have time to greet our erstwhile Premier.  However, we would like him to know that we did appreciate the efforts he made, as did Dr Mdlalose.  This Province is a number one Province.  The fact that they were doctors, and you are not a doctor, we hope that you are going to doctor this Province, as we have learnt from your speech, you are coming with a new medicine, ikhambi lesintu ukuyichathe le-Province ibengcono kunakuqala.  [traditional medicine, and inject this Province so it can be better than before]. 

We also want to, in his absence here, say farewell to Minister Zulu.  As Mr Burrows said, we who have worked very closely in the Education Committee, we know what pressures there were.  We welcome you Ndodakazi [daughter] into this very hot seat and we believe, I personally know you, and I know that you are going to be equal to the task, we have no problem, we will support you as well as we did Dr Zulu.  We know Education, as the Premier has said, is at the top of the agenda and we will support you.  We congratulate you.  At any time you can call upon us, even at midnight.  You can all upon us, "Hey, Baba Mkhwanazi kuyashisa lapha  [it is hot over here].  What should I do?"  We will use our experience over the years and advise where it is necessary.  I thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  The Minority Front, the hon Mr Rajbansi.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  On behalf of all the members of my Party, I want to congratulate ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER
 
THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order, please!  Give him a hearing please.  Thank you.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Yes, I noticed that since we have got a lion as a Premier, people are concerned about the tiger.  [LAUGHTER]  On behalf of my political party, I want to congratulate our hon Premier on his elevation to the number one position of this Province.  I have used the word our Premier, because he is not the IFP's Premier.  Once he was returned unopposed, he is the Premier of the whole of KwaZulu-Natal, across party political divide, across cultural, linguistic and language barriers.  I want to assure him of all the co-operation of my political Party at the provincial, as well as local government level.

We sang a lot of praises when your predecessor, the hon Dr Ben Ngubane, was elevated to this position.  I described him on that occasion as the Big Ben of this Province.  I will say in Latin, "Veni, vidi, vici", he came, he saw, he concurred, not people, but he conquered the minds and the hearts of the people of KwaZulu-Natal, and he set up an excellent standard.  I am sure that our present Premier, who I will describe as a person who may be as soft as silk, but when you study the mission statement, his vision for this Province, he will give us the clear message that he can be as hard as steel.  

We are also encouraged by the fact that two political parties, the ANC and the IFP, have been working in a spirit of brotherhood in this Province for a considerable period of time, notwithstanding sabre rattling from certain upstarts in this Province.  I am glad that the hon Premier in his press statement, and responded to by the hon Minister of Economic Affairs, both have indicated that this hand of friendship, and the type of hand of friendship which our State President and the hon Dr Buthelezi have been engaging in in recent times, will continue for the betterment of this Province.

We are glad that the hon Premier in his pre-mission statement, emphasised hard work, discipline, the culture of discipline, financial and all types of discipline.  We join you, Mr Premier, in converting this Province into a Province of hard working people, because you are a party leader.  The national leader of the ANC at the highest level has repeatedly stated in this country and abroad, that we have only attained political freedom.  The other freedom is still to be attained.  We are committed with you, Mr Premier, that we must wipe out the tears and the suffering of the people and wipe out the poverty in this Province.

We want to also take this opportunity to congratulate the newly appointed Minister of Education and Culture, with whom I have been acquainted for a considerable period of time.  Let us give a message throughout the length and breadth of this Province, that we mean business, when our hon Premier says there shall have to be a culture of discipline.  If it means that bold, hard, painful, unpalatable and unpopular decisions have to be made at the highest level in this Province, so be it, for the future of our children.  I want to say to the hon Premier, we are living in a great Province.  We are going to prove one day, when we turn the corner, that with hard work we all can make a difference. This will be the Province about which the whole of South Africa will be proud.

I take this opportunity of thanking the hon Dr Vincent Zulu for the work he has done.  I want to also welcome my old friend, the hon Mr Kamil Panday, the newly appointed member of this House.

I want to congratulate the hon Minister of Finance for keeping his wicket, and I hope he keeps it for the next 100 days.  We see his head is still available.  Thank you.  [LAUGHTER]

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, members.  Order!  We have come to the end of Item No 3.  I will now adjourn this House for 30 minutes.  It means that it will resume at a quarter to four.  Thank you, the House adjourns.

	HOUSE ADJOURNED AT 15:15

	RESUMED AT 16:50

THE SPEAKER:  The House resumes.

4.	ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER.

THE SPEAKER:  I would like to report that I have received a request for a debate on a matter of public importance from the IFP, the DP and the National Party.  I have provided for that debate, as it appears on the Order Paper, Item No 8.2. 

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, on a point of order.  I would just like to give notice that when that Item 8.2 comes up for debate, that from the ANC's side, we will actually question whether it is validly before Parliament.  I am making the point now so that you do not read our silence after your announcement as consent.  We are certainly not in agreement that that debate is validly before Parliament.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  Mr Speaker, the National Party also questions the validity of this debate being called under Rule 100.  We have given notice under 101, but we will debate that later when it comes up under the Orders of the Day, but you must give us an opportunity to do so.  The incorrect procedure has been followed.

THE SPEAKER:  Well, let us continue with the Order Paper.

5.	ANNOUNCEMENTS AND/OR REPORTS BY THE PREMIER.

THE SPEAKER:  He is not in.  We will move onto Item No 6 on the Order Paper.

6.	TABLING OF REPORTS OR PAPERS.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

7.	NOTICES OF BILLS OR MOTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Mrs Galea.

MRS C E GALEA:  Thank you.  Mr Speaker, I give notice that I will move on the next sitting day:

	That this House noting that:

	1.	the voters roll has still to be compiled.

	2.	many voters have registered at the wrong voting station; and

	3.	there have been many complaints that many voters have been turned away from the station which is nearest to their home and others have registered without giving their street number of where they reside (even though it is in an urban residential area).

	That this House ask the IEC to include the address, where available, of the voter on the voters roll as well.

I thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Mr Rajbansi.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I hereby give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day of this hon House as follows:

	That this hon House, having accepted that redeployment of our educators in our Province has been accepted in principle so as to level the playing fields, is concerned with the manner in which schools are declaring educators redundant, especially in the former House of Delegates schools.

	In order to enable one to be given a fair hearing against the allegations of nepotism, etcetera, it will be resolved to request the hon Minister of Education and Culture of this hon House to place a two month moratorium on the redeployment of our educators so that there can be a test for fairness and justice.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Mr Burrows.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day that this House:

	NOTING:

	(a)	the very poor senior certificate results in KwaZulu-Natal in 1998;  and

	(b)	the effect of these poor results on the personal life of the failing candidates and their families, on the economic life of the Province and on certain party political office-bearers.

	calls on:

	The Minister of Education and Culture, the Department of Education and Culture and the Cabinet to take concrete steps, regularly monitored and reported to this Parliament, to significantly raise the standard of work at unsuccessful secondary schools and in particular the 209 KZN Schools where the pass mark is below 20%.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Mr Ngidi?

MR N V E NGIDI: (Whip):  Mr Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day of this hon House as follows:

	1.	Noting that the presidential job summit held towards the end of 1998 took important decisions; chief among which was to set up a fund dedicated to job creation;

	2.	nothing further that the National Cabinet, in pursuance of the above decision, decided to sacrifice a day's wage to donate to the job creation fund;

	THEREFORE RESOLVES:

	That this Parliament takes a decision to imitate the action of the National Cabinet and members sacrifice a day's wage in the interest of job creation.

Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motions?

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  Mr Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move that:

	Noting:

	1.	the continued under-funding of education by the ANC Government to the Province of KwaZulu-Natal where the information given reflects the funding basis to provide some R2,400 per learner per annum whereas Gauteng and the Western Cape receive in excess of R4,000 per annum;

	2.	the continued declining education standard apparent in KwaZulu-Natal especially the 1998 matriculation examination pass rate declining from 70% in 1994 to 50.3% in 1998 and severely affected by a lack of school books and stationary, school security, a shortage of school classrooms and equipment;

	3.	the further total dissatisfaction of educators and learners and as to uncertainty in teacher training, staff appointments, staffing levels and redeployment, 

		and all leading to a totally unacceptable decline in the culture of teaching and learning which has resulted in the dismissal of the former Minister of Education, Dr Vincent Zulu; calls on the new Premier and Cabinet to urgently address the unacceptable funding and administrative problems to ensure that the newly appointed Minister does not also fail in this most important portfolio.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motions or Bills?  Hon Mr Volker?

MR V A VOLKER:  Mr Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:

	Noting that:

	The Media Conference in the IFP caucus room today, 10 February 1999 following the swearing in of the hon Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, was no more than an IFP political rally.

HON MEMBER:  Hear!  Hear!

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, this is no more a motion than anything else.  It is a speech that the member is making, relating to incidents that took place earlier on today.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order!  Order!  Order!

MR V A VOLKER:  Mr Speaker, I have an understanding for the hon Chief Whip, batting for his wickets.  The balance of my motion reads:

	Calls on the Speaker of the House to investigate the use of the Parliamentary precincts for a party political rally of the IFP advertising that party and Parliament bearing the costs thereof.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motions?  Then we move on to Item No 8 on the Order Paper.

8.1	KWAZULU-NATAL ADJUSTMENTS ESTIMATE BILL.

THE SPEAKER:  I will give this opportunity to the hon Minister, Mr Miller.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Speaker, I must start on a lighter note and say that the total absence of any of my colleagues in the front bench, I hope does not indicate that they are necessarily satisfied with matters financial.  But what I do want to say, Mr Speaker, is that I look behind me and I see that the entire Press gallery is empty as well, so perhaps they too are not interested in matters financial.

I do want to say, Mr Speaker, that when on the 20 March 1998, my predecessor, as the Minister of Finance ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please.

MR A RAJBANSI:  I heard an hon member from this side of the House referring to the hon Minister as a headless chicken.  [LAUGHTER]  A headless fowl.  It is unparliamentary and we do not know whether it is a Zulu fowl or not.

THE SPEAKER:  You may continue.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Speaker, let me assure you, some chicken, some head.  If I may start again, sir.  When my predecessor, on the 20 March 1998, tabled the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the 1998/99 financial year for the Province of KwaZulu-Natal, I was present then as a member of his Executive.  On this occasion it has become my pleasure to stand before this hon House and to present to you the Adjustment Estimates for those original estimates for the year ending 31 March 1999.

The purpose of the Adjustment Estimates, Mr Speaker, and the tabling thereof, is to invite the Provincial Legislature to consider requests for funds in addition to funds which were appropriated in the Main Estimate in May of last year.

These requests for additional funds must be, and are measured against the requirements of Section 1 (1) (a) to (d) of the KwaZulu-Natal Exchequer Act, No 1 of 1994, which specifies that such requests must be limited as follows:

1.	To shifting of funds between programmes, within votes and between votes;

2.	To the re-appropriation of money for services of the Province in respect of which no or insufficient monies have been appropriated in the relevant financial year, and which may only be appropriated subject to the stipulations in the Act.

3.	For any other change or adjustment to an Appropriation Act which applies in the relevant financial year, and which Treasury deems necessary.

4.	For the re-appropriation of money, which might have been appropriated in the preceding financial year, but was not spent.

5.	Finally, for any other adjustments which the Treasury may deem necessary.

Needless to say, we like to use "5" more often than the rest.

Today marks the day, Mr Speaker, on which we have to assess in earnest our financial performance during the fiscal year that we are now concluding.  The best way to do this, is perhaps to remind ourselves of the financial crisis which confronted the Province this time last year.

Mr Speaker, you will recall in your then capacity as an ordinary member, that the 1997/98 fiscal year closed with a deficit of about R1,7 billion.  An amount of R900 million was received as a Section 100 (1)(a) grant from the National Government, leaving a deficit of R800 million to start with in the 1998/99 fiscal year.

Mr Speaker, I must also add to that, that was the deficit that we actually caused in the 1997/98 financial year, but the reality is that we ended the 1996/97 financial year also in deficit, although we only discovered that halfway through the following financial year.  So the reality is that we started 1998/99 with closer to R1.1 billion in debt, which we intend to work off during the term of the medium term expenditure framework.

In order to cope with this problem, during the first quarter of 1998/99, my Ministry and the Provincial Treasury put in place a wide range of mechanisms to monitor, control and evaluate departmental expenditures.  This culminated in the establishment of regular bilateral meetings on expenditure between the National Departments of Finance and State Expenditure, the Provincial Treasury, the Finance Portfolio Committee and the senior management of provincial departments.  As a result of these measures, the base for consolidating expenditure in the Province has not only been established, but also the expenditure of the three big Departments of Education, Health and Social Welfare, has been stabilised.  It is therefore my pleasure to confirm, Mr Speaker, that the Province is today in a far stronger and more positive financial position, when compared to the crisis situation which prevailed in the previous financial year.

Let me say, sir, that in private sector language, it would be said that KwaZulu-Natal (Pty) Limited, or KwaZulu-Natal Limited, has turned around its nett cash position by nearly R2 billion in 10 months.  And I also say that were this the private sector, all the directors that have helped make this happen are deserving of a bonus.

I must, Mr Speaker, pause here to thank my Cabinet colleagues, and members of the Portfolio Committee for Finance, and the senior management of all the provincial departments for their support over the past year, and for their contribution towards maintaining the expenditure level at an acceptable limit within very tight fiscal constraints.

It would also be most remiss of me, Mr Speaker, hon members, not to acknowledge the incredible co-operation we have received from National Finance, from the Minister and from the staff of both National Finance and National State Expenditure, who have worked with us in terms of the Section 100 (1) (a) directive from the Constitution in this regard.  I am also proud to be able to say that they sat with us once, in May last year, and from then on they knew and were satisfied that in fact we, locally, had grasped the nettle and were in control of the situation.

I now come to the 1998/99 adjustments.  I want to look briefly, Mr Speaker, at each vote, stating the overall increase or decrease, and to mention the significant movements which contributed to those increases or decreases.  I will start with the Department of the Premier.

1.	DEPARTMENT OF THE PREMIER

	The expenditure of the Premier's Department reflects an overall increase of R24,759 million.  This increase is due to the following significant changes:

	Firstly, based on the principle that funds must follow function, we transferred to the Department of the Premier R17,849 million as a result of the transfer of the Information Technology Directorate from the Department of Finance to the Department of the Premier.  So those funds went to the Premier, but came from Finance.

	We also transferred staff from the erstwhile Provincial Service Commission to the Department of the Premier, and the funds that followed that transfer, amounted to R5,649 million.

	We have then other smaller amounts of R0,119 million, or R119,000 and R141,000 respectively, that resulted from the transfer of staff for payroll and voucher control and the transfer of an individual staff member from Traditional and Environmental Affairs.

	There were also some transfers out of the Premier's Department, totalling some R6 million and a bit.  These were for minor things, like shifting funds for the running of His Majesty the King's farms to Agriculture, shifting funds for running the Regional Peace Secretariat to the South African Police Services vote, shifting funds for postal services to the Departments of Education and Culture, Finance, Health, Local Government and Housing and Transport, and also shifting funds for the purchase of works of art to the Department of Education and Culture.

	The nett effect of all this, Mr Speaker, is that the nett increase to the Premier was R24,759 million and this will be reflected in the amount which we are asking you to vote today.

2.	PROVINCIAL PARLIAMENT

	I want to acknowledge that there has been some press speculation and controversy generated over this particular vote.

AN HON MEMBER:  If the press was here it would help.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Indeed it would, but they are probably busy doing something more important right now.

	The position is this that we received a conditional grant from National Government to cater for the increase in constituency allowances payable to members of the Provincial Legislature, amounting to R2,916 million.  This of course is passed on, directly, by Treasury, to the Parliamentary vote.

	We have then, in this financial year, allocated a further amount of R2,1 million, which is an additional allocation from the Provincial Debt Redemption Reserve, to cover anticipated over-expenditure this year in the Legislature.  By agreement with a team representing the Legislature, that amount of money will be suspended from the Legislature's 1999/2000 budget allocation.

	While speaking on that particular issue, we also have an agreement with you, Mr Speaker, and your team, that a particular campaign is afoot within your Legislature at the present time to attend to such matters as a staff audit and other possible ways of saving in that particular vote.

	I also would record the most convivial and pleasant relationship that exists between the hon the Speaker and the Finance and Treasury team and that we are dealing with matters now on a much more rational basis than perhaps we had done earlier and that the Speaker and his team, and I and the Treasury, we will be meeting further to discuss potential problems which might arise in the coming year.

3.	DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

	In the Department of Agriculture I am asking the House only to vote an extra R32,000 and this results from some function shifts, involving again the cost of running His Majesty the King's farms, and devolution of funds that go with some staff changes, the pluses and the minuses virtually balance each other out and only an extra R32,000 is required for Agriculture.

4.	DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS AND TOURISM

	The Department of Economic Affairs and Tourism is a somewhat more difficult vote, because of one particular issue which my colleague, the Minister of Economic Affairs, understands so well.  Here we are asking the House to budget an additional R31,106 million for the Department.  The huge bulk of that, R29 million in fact, is to be used to try and finally solve the problems of KwaZulu Transport.

	In this particular case these funds are to be used to try and finalise the restructuring of KwaZulu Transport, particularly now that the subsidy formula for the carting of passengers has been changed from a subsidy per kilometre travelled, or to a subsidy per kilometre travelled, rather than a subsidy per passenger carried.  We hope that with this final contribution we will be in a position to begin to privatise routes where tenders have been awarded and eventually manage our way out of what is a very vexed financial problem, caused for our Administration by KwaZulu Transport.

	We also have an extra R2 million there which was negotiated by myself, wearing my other hat, as the Minister for Local Government, to the Natal Sharks Board.  It was Government's contribution which also resulted in a major contribution coming from local government, because if we are serious about tourism along our coastline, we cannot have our major beaches not protected against the potential for shark attack.

	There was then also a very, very minor additional amount of R106,000, relating to the devolution of payroll and voucher control staff to the Department itself.  The total additional amount therefore to be voted for Economic Affairs and Tourism is R31,106 million.

5.	DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE

	I now turn to the Department of Education and Culture and here I am asking the House to vote for a decrease in the amount to Education and Culture of R30,498 million.  But before you take fright at that, it is easily explained, because a minus amount of R70,464 million relates to a function shift, involving the transfer of personnel and funds for capital projects to the Department of Works.

	We also then have a plus amount of R38 million, which was a conditional grant received from National Government, to eliminate the classroom backlog.  So a simple subtraction, R38 million something from R70 million something, leaves you the nett decrease of R30,498m.  There are a few other minor issues here, R12,000 here and R16,000 there, petty cash, as we call it, just to balance up where there have been minor funds transferred from one department to another, funds following function.

6.	DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE

	I then come to vote 6, the Department of Finance.  Here I am asking the House to support a decrease in the funds available to the Department of Finance of R171,015 million.  This too, in a sense, is a technical issue.  We are not actually decreasing the funds used by the Department to run its affairs, but decreasing the funds held by that Department as a vote of convenience where we hold debt redemption reserves, where we hold the funds where we made additional allocations to various provincial departments from the provincial debt redemption reserve.

	So from the original provincial debt redemption reserve of R426 million, we were forced to use up during the year R340 million of that.  These were additional allocations made to various provincial departments from this debt redemption reserve.

	I make use of this opportunity, hon members, Mr Speaker, to explain that one of the dilemmas when you end a year in deficit, is that if you are in deficit, you lose the ability to roll over unspent funds, even if those unspent funds are in a department which has ended in a surplus.  It is simply impossible to roll forward funds of any kind if in fact you do not have those funds, and if your Province ends in deficit, the capacity and ability to roll over vanishes, like the dew before the morning sun.  So we were faced with the situation, as we came into 1998/99, where we had client departments who had genuinely paid money over, for example, to the Department of Works.  The Department of Works had not yet completed the contract for which that money had been paid.  The Department of Works came to the end of the year and asked for those monies to be rolled over, but those monies could not be rolled over because they no longer existed in our books.  So, in 1998/99, we found ourselves with the Department of Works, for example, having contracts, to which they were obligated and which were continuing, but for which they had no funds to pay.  So we had to make allocations from the provincial debt redemption reserve to meet those contingencies, and this was done with the full knowledge of National State Expenditure and National Finance in terms of the Section 100 (1) (a) Constitutional directive, under which we labour at the present time.

	Also in that particular vote, of course, is an additional R195 million, obtained from National Finance in terms of the National Adjustment Estimates that were passed in the National Assembly at the end of November last year, and so when our additional payments have been made out of the Department of Finance, and then we add the additional monies we got in, the nett effect on the budget vote of Finance, is a decrease then of R171 million.

7.	DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH

	The Department of Health, the next vote, vote 7.  Here we have a nett increase of R198,807 million and the position here is that this is virtually entirely made up by the conditional grant given to us by National Health for the building of the Durban Academic Hospital.

	All the other matters there, a reduction in conditional grants for central hospitals and the Primary School Nutrition Programme, and other function shifts have the effect of reducing that R200 million grant for the Durban Academic Hospital to R198,8 million.  Again, it was what the hon Mr Gordon Haygarth has called petty cash in the discussions in the Portfolio Committee this morning, that had that effect.  But the basic change in the vote for Health, arises as a result of that conditional grant for the Academic Hospital.

8.	DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOUSING

	We then move on to the Department of Local Government and Housing.  Here, we are asking for the House to vote an extra R27,819 million, and this results from the fact that a transitional grant was given to us, by National Government, for the specific purpose of funding Project Viability and the Management Support Programmes that go with Project Viability, in order to try and help municipalities that are having difficulty running their financial affairs.

	There is virtually a complete balance there.  We received R27,871 million.  The increase is R27,819 million and there is approximately R50,000, which is explained by what we call the petty cash again, postage, moving from one department to another, an odd member of staff and that kind of thing.



9.	SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICES

	We move onto vote 9.  Here we are asking for the South African Police Services in our Province an extra R3,465 million.  This is attributed simply to the function shift from the Department of the Premier in respect of the funds for the Regional Peace Secretariat.

	There is also a minor amount of R150,000 which is a commitment received from National Police Services for community policing forums in our Province.

10.	PROVINCIAL SERVICE COMMISSION

	We then go to vote 10, the Provincial Service Commission.  Here we are asking for a nett increase of R465 million.  Before too many members look startled, again I want to emphasize that this vote is used as a vote of convenience to carry the allocation given to us for purposes of paying for improvements in conditions of service for provincial personnel.  We received in fact a total amount of R471,275 million from National Government for improvement of conditions of service.

	We had a small function shift, which I have already mentioned under the Department of the Premier, where we moved staff and the functions that go with that staff, to the Department of the Premier, so there is a nett amount to be moved of R5,6 million.  Subtract the R5,6 million from the R471 million and you get the R465 million increase that we ask to be voted in terms of this vote.

11.	DEPARTMENT OF TRADITIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS

	Here we have a very small decrease of R156,000, which is all the petty cash issues of postage, payroll and voucher control staff, the transfer of a single member of staff, Miss E Clark to the Department of the Premier, and that is a small R156,000 decrease, which is neither here nor there, but it is necessary to record it for the purpose of balancing the books.

12.	DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

	Under the Department of Transport, here we have a classic case where my colleague caught me while I was still green behind the ears.  We have an increase here of R57,889 million.  This is made up, fundamentally, of an increased allocation from the provincial debt redemption reserve of R60,8 million for the specific purpose of building community access roads.  The rationale behind this was that the Department of Transport was going to increase their income, and I think it remains the rationale.

	But I do want to record for my colleague's attention that so far this rationale has not come to fruition, and that in fact we have not yet seen in our books the increase that we anticipate getting from the increase in motor traffic licenses.  We have no reason to believe that we have got less motor cars in the Province than we used to have and we do not really know who is keeping the money at the present time, but I do say to my colleague, the hon Minister of Transport, we will not transfer funds in the future until we actually see the money.

	Nonetheless, this balances up nicely, and I want to say that it was a unanimous decision of Cabinet and we believe that the building of community access roads to people who had no vehicle access of whatever kind in our Province, is in fact a noble objective and we hope that we have contributed to that objective by this allocation, and I will be asking, and I am asking the House, to support this increase for that Department.

13.	DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL WELFARE

	I come now to vote 13, the Department of Social Welfare.  I want to say that the revised allocation for this Department reflects a nett decrease of R9,897 million, which is also very simply explained in the sense that it results mainly from a transfer of R15 million to the Department of Works for capital projects, which was agreed to by all concerned at the beginning of the year.  We then have that minus amount of R15 million made less by the fact that we have received a R4,189 million conditional grant from National Government to assist with the financial management of Social Security Systems.

	Then there were other minor amounts, also payroll and voucher control staff, function shifts, and the placement of some supernumerary staff identified in the Premier's Department.  The nett decrease for Social Welfare is R9,897 million, which is explained as I have indicated.

14.	DEPARTMENT OF WORKS

	Vote 14, the Department of Works.  In vote 14, we show in our Adjustment Estimates, an increase of R121,911 million.  As I have previously explained in my opening remarks, here was the situation where the Department had received funds from client departments, had entered into the necessary contracts, had not completed the contracts, requested legitimately the roll over of funds, and when we came to do a roll over, the funds had been blown and there were none to roll over.  We had then no alternative, but to dip into our debt redemption reserve in this year, to assist the Department of Works meet its obligations, which had been genuinely and contractually entered into.

	This was done, and that is why the nett amount for the increase in the Department of Works is R121 million, but now, with the co-operation of the Department concerned, we have got much better control, we will be able to see that that kind of thing does not catch us unawares again as we get close to the end of a financial year.

15.	PROMOTING THE RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME

	Finally then I come to promoting the Reconstruction and Development Programme in vote 15.  This vote, Mr Speaker, hon members, shows an increase of R174,152 million.  I think I should digress for a moment to explain to hon members how this amount ends up in our budget.

	Back in 1996 this Administration was given a R100 million Peace Fund.  We received that money, but at the end of 1996/97 we ended with a deficit and at the end of 1997/98 we ended with even a greater deficit.  The simple facts of the matter was that the money for the Peace Fund had also been blown as part of that deficit.  However, during the course of this year, we have had to, in our negotiations with National Finance and National State Expenditure, we have had it pertinently brought to our attention that that money was in fact a conditional grant, and conditional grants must be rolled over, even if you take the money from other departments.

	So, of the original Peace Fund of R100 million, which we got in 1996, I might add, and it is now 1999, we still have R87,246 million, which has not yet been spent.  So we make provision in this particular Adjustment Estimate for that amount in order that whatever of it remains unspent, can be rolled over for next year.

	I need to add to that a sum of R80 million.  Now this sum of R80 million has been the subject of some considerable controversy and questions in this House over many months, and we were told initially that the money had been provided for in the budget of the Department of Education nationally, and that it was held there and that eventually we would get it.  To cut a long story short - and let me say that this was not without a valiant fight, both by the Ministry and the Department - we have had to concede, although - or let me put it another way, we have had to accept, but we have refused to concede, that we had already received the money.

	It is an extraordinary thing when you are dealing with National Finance and they say, "How would you like to get our grant of R195 million?", that they gave us at the end of November, "Would you like it as R115 million for debt redemption and R80 million for this fund, or would you like R195 million for debt redemption and take the R80 million from your own funds?"  So we were between a rock and a hard place and the nett effect is that we have had to make provision for that R80 million.  We have had to make provision for that R80 million out of our debt redemption reserve.

	Then we add to that a further R6,9 million from the Discretionary Fund to be used, that we had originally.  So the fact of the matter is that we now have to vote R174,152 million for these RDP programmes.  Let me say that next year in the budget, we do not make any provision for any new money at all.  One no longer makes provision for this type of funding, and so the sooner we can get on and spend this money to the benefit or our people in KwaZulu-Natal, the better.

	Let me just say that it was from these funds essentially that I was suggesting that we can do something sensible about the Richmond situation.  I am still charged, Mr Premier, I am so pleased to be standing here next to you now, I am still charged to bring to the Cabinet the proposals that have not yet been made as a result of our meeting with the Richmond communities, and those proposals will come soon.

That then, hon members, Mr Speaker, is a detailed exposé of exactly how we wish the House to support additional expenditure, or reduced expenditure per vote.  The nett effect of all that is that I am asking you today to vote an additional amount of R899,075 million.  This was received from the National Exchequer in many ways and I just want to break that down very briefly.  R471 million of it came for improvement in conditions of service for staff.  R200 million of it came for the conditional grant for the academic hospital.  R195 million of it came in the Adjustment Estimates at the end of November last year, when an extra R1 billion was distributed amongst the provinces.  Then R38 million came to help with the building of classrooms, the so-called classroom backlog.

What I need to emphasize is - and particularly for the media, if they are listening - that we have not received additional funds to spend on the ordinary activities of our Administration.  We are not voting here more funds to buy school books, or to mend roads, or to buy medicines, or to maintain buildings.  We effectively here are voting this additional amount of money for the specific purposes for which it was given to us by National during the course of the year.

Those figures that I have just given you, I have rounded them up, so they do not balance entirely, the arithmetic is not spot on, it is a million or two out, because I have not taken parts of a million.  But that in effect, is how we have funded the R899 million.

I did say in my opening remarks, and I am very proud to be able to say it again in the presence of my new Premier, that this Province has effectively, on its trading account, had a turn around of some R2 billion in 10 months.  The position in the Province has improved by that amount.  We have wiped out totally the spending deficits, the over expenditure of previous years, and I will be announcing in the main budget in two weeks from today, that in fact we have generated a saving of some R240 million to go against the R1,1 billion debt that we have still at the present time, and that we should, with fiscal discipline and sensible use of money, be able to be completely out of debt within two to three years, at which time of course, we get the bonanza of suddenly being able to add another R400m to R500m a year to Departmental Expenditure Programmes and therefore have a dramatic effect on our service delivery capacity to the people of our Province.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I have explained to the House how the changes have occurred during the fiscal year under review, and what has led to the requirement of the additional monies that I have indicated.

I therefore then table at this stage the Adjustments Estimate Bill, 1999, and the Adjustments Estimate Book in terms of Section 4 (5) (b) of the KwaZulu-Natal Exchequer Act, Act No 1 of 1994, read with Rule 132 (a) of the Standing Rules of the Provincial Legislature of KwaZulu-Natal.

May I, Mr Speaker, at this point, take this opportunity, since the hon the Premier was not present when I commenced my speech, where it would have been more appropriate, just to say what an honour it is for me, as a Minister in your Executive, to be able to be the first one that moves legislation on the very first day that you serve as our Premier, and may, God willing, may it be possible too, sir, that I might be present to move legislation on your last day, whenever that might be, long into the future.

I thank you very much, Mr Speaker.  I move the Bill.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER: Siyabonga Mhlonishwa.  Uhla lwabazokhuluma lumi kanje, ngizocela ilunga elihloniphekileyo u-D Makhaye onikezwe isikhathi esiwu 15 minutes.  [Thank you, hon member.  This is how the list of speakers stands.  I am going to call upon the hon member D Makhaye, who has been given 15 minutes].

MR D H MAKHAYE:  Oh! ya wazi minake uma ungibiza ngomfana kaMaNdlovu.  [Oh, yes, you must know me if you call me MaNdlovu's boy].

Mr Speaker, the Portfolio Committee on Finance was fully briefed on the Adjustments Appropriation Bill, 1999, by the MEC for Finance, the hon Mr Miller, and the Department.  Of course this is a money Bill.  The Finance Committee is burdened with the task to decide on this one.  I hope this House will take a conscious decision on this Bill, hoping that every member of this House was listening to the deliberation, or the speech, of the MEC from his first to the last word.

In general, I accept the KwaZulu-Natal Adjustments Appropriation Bill, 1999.  I congratulate the MEC for Finance, the hon Mr Peter Miller and his Department, for the great improvement in the handling of the provincial finances.  This of course applies to the accounting officers from the other departments, the different portfolio committees that have in the last nine months, been seized with the problem of the finances in this Province.

I want also to congratulate the members of the Finance Committee, who over the past four-and-a-half years, have worked as an unquarrelsome family, with less political rhetoric.  Of course we have struggled to balance our books after the embarrassing 1996/97 and 1997/98 huge deficit.  Certain measures were taken, such as the functioning of the Treasury Council which incorporated members of this Legislature.  We have been able to negotiate these obstacles at a heavy price, in terms of the delivery of services to our people.  The huge deficit brought us to a situation where we could not roll over funds, and of course conflict, especially between the Public Works and the main client departments, emerged.  We are happy that we seem to have successfully negotiated that obstacle.

I would be failing in my duty if I do not point out that all departments, I want to emphasize, including the Legislature, have the right only - I want to emphasize only - to those funds appropriated by this House.  The appropriation of these funds by this Legislature is a serious business.  It becomes a law.  One hopes that the Legislature will be a good example in this regard and the Executive Board will play its proper role in this regard.

The Minister of Finance has already informed us that we will be starting the new year with a deficit of R2.1 million from the vote of the Legislature.  As a Province, we have embarked on an extremely political expensive re-registration campaign of the aged and the physically challenged.  Already the exercise has covered about 30% of its target, for a better projection as to whether this exercise will bring us a saving, and up to what extent that saving will be.  By now we should have at least received getting some feedback on the 30% already been done, but so far we have not received this feedback.  Perhaps not because of the problem of the Department, but precisely perhaps because of the time that lapses between the actual counting and when that information is passed on to the Treasury, or the Department of Social Welfare, and then to the portfolio committees.

Mr Speaker, we have noted with concern, the reduction of the collection of Revenue by almost two-thirds.  This is an area of concern.  I will move that we, as the House, support this Bill.  I thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Ngizobiza manje ilunga elihloniphekileyo uMnumzane u-John Aulsebrook uno-12 minutes.  [I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr John Aulsebrook, who has 12 minutes].

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Mr Speaker, members of the House, the Adjustments Estimates Bill which is before us today is merely putting the finishing touches to our annual budget.  This budget reflects a year of fiscal discipline and sound financial management.  The process which has brought us to the position we are in today, started some two years ago when we found ourselves in a financial crisis.  A similar crisis to which some of the other provinces still find themselves in.

Two years ago, as the Budget Council, we began a process, the same process which was refined, and it is now known as the Treasury Council, gave guidance and laid down rules, which enabled us to see light at the end of the tunnel.  The result is that we as a Government, can hold our heads up high, but by the same token, I must caution that the next two years are going to be critical to keep this Province financially on tract.  Department budgets will remain exceedingly tight for that period.

Mr Speaker, I caution against us giving people the wrong impression about the situation of our finances.  The impression that they tend to be getting is that we are out of the woods, money is plentiful, and really, the danger is that departments will now start spending money, which in fact we do not really have.

But by the same token, I must complement the departments that when called upon to show restraint in spending, have done so.  Particularly those that have come in under budget and presented us with a surplus, which has managed to balance out those who were able to reduce the deficits that they were predicting, and we have come out with a fairly balanced expenditure budget this year.

Mr Speaker, the position that we find ourselves in in this Province, is not unique.  South Africans have come to realise that this country's financial resources are limited and we have had to learn this lesson the hard way.  The economic growth in this country is at zero at the moment.  Our population continues to grow.  That merely translates into less for more people.  Coupled to the scourge of HIV/AIDS, which merely compounds the problems that we face in trying to ensure sound financial management, we are heading for tough years.  Let us not fool ourselves.

Let us also accept that there are solutions to this problem.  Solutions that if we dealt with the crime and corruption that plague us, and if we had to increase productivity, we would then start addressing some of our financial shortages and we could start delivering to the people.

We also need to stop looking over our shoulders and blaming our past, or even stop blaming the Asian crisis, or Western countries for our woes.  It is also time for our trade unions to act in a more mature and responsible manner.  They must stop using workers as pawns in the power political games that they play.  Unions should take joint responsibility, with commerce and industry, to ensure that our economy grows.  We must deal with unemployment.  
There was a motion in this House earlier today that we should all increase the level of taxation by giving one day's wage to unemployment.  Quite honestly, it is a token that none of us would certainly have a problem with as such, but it is the principle of merely increasing taxation.  Unemployment is a serious problem we would all like to address, but we would like to address it in a meaningful way, and in this way certainly the trade unions can play a far bigger role than what they are playing.

Mr Speaker, yes, we can hold our heads up high on another score, and that is the manner in which this Province has dealt with fraud and corruption.  The successes of our Anti-Fraud Campaign bear testimony to that fact.  We are certainly taking the hardest line possible against people caught defrauding our Government, and prosecutions are taking place.  We are winning that battle, and that is enough to give us confidence for the future.  I have no doubt that those crimes will surface from time to time, but at least we know we have the upper hand.

What does all this mean to us in this House?  Certainly to those who will be re-elected for another five year term, the groundwork has now been done.  The hard work has been done over the last five years.  The next five years should be a lot smoother and we can expect better delivery from the Government.  Not to say that there will not be ups and downs.

Before I conclude, there is one issue that has not been raised with regards to the Adjustments Estimates, and that is of revenue collection.  If one reads at the bottom of the first page of the schedule that was issued, revenue collection is the last item there, and it indicates an increase over the budgeted amount.  But the reality is that over four years, our revenue collection has decreased from R900 million to R350 million.  This is another serious problem.  This hampers us.  The departments should now become certainly more conscious with regards to revenue collection.  I sincerely hope that all portfolio committees will when dealing with their expenditure control reports, also include revenue collection and put pressure on departments to ensure that revenue collection takes place, and increases, not just gets back to the R900 million, but surpasses that.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I complement the Minister for the manner in which he and his Department have managed the financial affairs of this Province, and we, on this side of the House, support this Bill.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Siyabonga kwilunga elihloniphekileyo.  Ngicela ilunga elihloniphekileyo u-Haygarth uno-12 minutes.  [We thank the hon member.  I ask the hon member Haygarth, who has 12 minutes].

MR G HAYGARTH:  Mr Speaker, hon members, in dealing with the Adjustment Estimates, there are a couple of matters of principle that I would first like to address.  The Minister made mention of one in his speech, and it is pleasing to note that more Ministers are now in the House than were present when he introduced his speech.  Mr Speaker, it is unprecedented in Government, in the presentation of a money Bill, that those who are the recipients of the money, should be absent from the House when that takes place.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR G HAYGARTH:  Secondly, Mr Speaker, I have a little bit of a problem.  I think it can be resolved, but I make the point from the point of view of the Rules of the House, and I refer the Minister and the Chairman of the Portfolio Committee, to something which has been drawn to my attention, which is the introduction of money Bills.  Section 132 provides for the manner in which the Minister shall introduce the money Bill, and after that, it is referred by the Speaker to the Portfolio Committee, and within five days the Portfolio Committee shall in fact report on the matter.  A report is required from the Portfolio Committee before this Bill is finally passed.  I suggest the matter can be easily dealt with simply at the end of the Minister's response by adjourning the House for five minutes.  I am sure that the work we did at the Portfolio Committee this morning was adequate attention to the matter and that we thoroughly dealt with the Minister's speech.  The Chairman of the Finance Portfolio Committee could call for the consent of his members and then report back to the House that in fact, we have done it.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order!

MR G HAYGARTH:  I hope we can resolve that in a few extra minutes, Mr Speaker.  Having said that, I think some of the points the Minister made needs to be emphasized.  He made an indictment effectively, of the public accounting system that we have in this country, and he referred to the fact that in years gone by, something of the order of six months elapsed before the final figures were available, and he indicated that steps have been taken to improve that situation.  I can only support that, because if you do not have your figures up to date, your budgeting process can only drop you in trouble.  I think there are other things in the process that need to be attended to and we look forward to the work that the Minister is doing in that respect.

Secondly, he emphasized the subject of roll over principles.  That was a very important statement.  Ministers must realise that while they may themselves have monies to roll over, if the Province as a whole does not have monies, we are dead.  The Minister made that very clear and it is very important for all Ministers to note that no matter how hard they work, if the team as a whole do not produce a surplus, you simply cannot roll over, and roll over, particularly for somebody like the Works Department, is an absolute essential.  It cannot work with long term contracts on a basis on which it cannot roll over money.  The Minister has emphasized that.  I think a lot of work needs to be done on how to handle the roll over principle in the circumstances in which we find ourselves.

On behalf of my party I would like to congratulate the Cabinet and all the accounting officers for the work they have done in making this tremendous turnaround, the Minister has made the point and all of us say congratulations on a job well done.  Notwithstanding that, the Finance Minister would expect me to have something to say, and so I must say it.  He made the point that we had set aside R426m for a debt redemption reserve.  Of that amount he had to re-allocate R340m.  Now while we have done well, the fact that the Minister had to take R340m to bail out those departments which exceeded their budgets or needed additional funds, is indicative of the fact that we did not do as well as we could have done.  Notwithstanding the efforts of the Minister and the Cabinet, we did not do as well as we could have done.  It is an important factor to note for the future that if we set aside, and we have to redeem that money the longer it takes and the more interest we are paying on that amount.  It is important that we recognise the need to deal with that.

Previously there were three major departments which overspent, and it is pleasing to note that Education and Social Welfare have achieved their objective of containing their expenditure within the limits of the amount provided.  On the other hand, the Department of Health missed out a little bit and certainly exceeded their vote.  But the turnaround in that area is extremely important, particularly because Education has made the point often, that they simply could not contain the expenditure within the amount provided.  They made that statement year after year in regard to the budget, and yet today, they have succeeded in achieving that objective.  Because I have been critical of them, I say congratulations for that achievement.

Then, on a little lighter side, the Minister had cause to complain to the Minister of Transport that he was not producing the revenue that he ought to.  I am being a little bit naughty, because I have in my possession a reply which the Minister gave on the collection of traffic fines.  I had asked how much is outstanding, uncollected, and there are significant funds outstanding in that respect.  It says the amount still due at the 31 December 1998 is R39 million.  Now that is subject to certain difficulties that he has in the collection process, and that I understand, but after five years, the Minister says, "In due course unfinalised prosecutions will be tagged to the renewal driver's licences and permits, as well as registration and renewal of motor vehicle licence fees.

Mr Speaker, I cannot understand why a dynamic Minister like the Minister of Transport, has not succeeded in getting around to these things at an earlier stage and making sure that he has the funds available for the rural roads which he is dealing with.

The additional amount which the Minister then has to finally ask for, is the figure he mentioned of R899 million.  In terms of past experience that has been a major achievement.  We would like to say on behalf of my party that we commend - and I say this again, not only the Minister and his Department of Finance, because they themselves have acknowledged that they cannot do it without the considerable co-operation of every other Minister, and accounting officer in the service.  It is a team effort.  The team effort has made considerable inroads into our financial debacle and I would now like to say that when it comes formally to the Portfolio Committee in whatever time is still left, that we can approve of that and certainly this party will give its approval to what is before us.  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Siyathokoza kakhulu.  Sengizocela manje ilunga elihloniphekileyo u-Mrs Mkhize uno-nine minutes.  [I am very pleased.  I am now going to ask the hon member, Mrs Mkhize, nine minutes].

MRS N C MKHIZE: (Whip):  Mr Speaker, I would firstly like to congratulate the hon Minister of Finance and his Department for the remarkable effort which they have made to control and utilise the meagre budget that was allocated to this Province.  The Adjustments Estimate Bill presented by the Minister in this House, clearly reflects the control I am talking about.

Mr Speaker, this Province launched a "Culture of Good Governance" two years ago.  It has worked tirelessly to achieve good governance, especially in its finances.  It is no miracle that in the budget ending March this year, there is very little to be adjusted.  But Mr Speaker, it is an indisputable fact that while trying to save a particular department, some areas do suffer in the process.  One cuts one's hands trying to save at times.

It is unfortunate that the National Department of Finance has failed to allocate the required budget requested by this Province at the beginning of this year.  It is appalling that due to the above factor, departments of supply who deliver very vital services have been very seriously affected.

In the Department of Health, services have declined.  Hospitals and clinics are without medicine.  New clinics are without staff.  In the Department of Education thousands of teachers are without employment.  New schools cannot be built.  No maintenance can be done.

Mr Speaker, we are experiencing a problem.  We are faced with a problem in this country.  We are at the top of the list on crime.  We are also involved in gun-running.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MRS N C MKHIZE: (Whip):  Certain people, I mean those that are involved know who they are.  There are cash in transit heists.  How much has this country lost to these cash in transit heists.  We have got to sit down and think this through thoroughly because we will all sink into a pool.  Unemployment has escalated and it is very high - above 40%.

Mr Speaker, there is a remarkable decline in the services to the people out there.  Where does the buck stop?  While we can do our part of saving as a Province, the bulk of work remains in the hands of the National Government.  Wrong policies also help towards lowering the finances of this country and also our Province.

Mr Speaker, I support the Adjustments Estimate Bill as presented by the Minister of Finance.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Siyathokoza.  Sengizobiza ilunga elihloniphekileyo u-Mr Nel uno-six minutes.  [We are pleased.  I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr Nel, who has six minutes].

MR W U NEL:  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.  The hon member Mrs Mkhize, makes a very valid, if unrelated point to this particular Adjustments Estimate, and that is that crime and hijackings and all of the items that she mentioned, have a very indirect impact on the revenues that are generated on delivery in the country as a whole.  We must get that right to generate the funds which we can, then in turn, in due course, appropriate via budgets.

We are here today to regularise the expenditure for the year and the additional amounts that have been passed on to this Province by the National Government and therefore to consider this Adjustments Estimate of R899m.

We, in the Province of KwaZulu-Natal have got much to be thankful for.  Yet, there is also much that is unacceptable.  The delivery in the Province is unacceptable.  Productivity within government departments is unacceptable.  We are still suffering from corruption and waste, which we must in due course get rid of, but we must be very, very thankful that at least we have now got the budget expenditure under control, and this has been a remarkable achievement, I would say, by any standards.

In the previous year, we had a final budget voted of about R18.9 billion, if I remember correctly, and if we were simply to adjust that by an inflation figure of roughly 10%, one would have expected that in this current year we would be looking at spending about R21 billion.  Instead of having R21.8 billion, the current budget including this Adjustments Estimate, is now only up to R18.9 billion.  Yet, even that is not being spent in the current year, because as the Minister correctly pointed out, there is still some money in the debt redemption reserve, which is put aside.  In addition, he has also had to provide an amount of R174m so that there is money available to roll over to do this RDP expenditure in due course, money which has not yet been spent.

So if we do the arithmetic, it actually tells us that we have, in expenditure terms, managed to cut in real terms, by about 15% in a single year, and that is no mean feat, considering especially, that we also were unable to reduce staff other than by attrition.  It has come at a huge cost, but it is indeed an accomplishment by KwaZulu-Natal, which I think maybe very few other provinces can emulate.

Having said that, there are also shifts in money in this Adjustments Estimate, which we must comment on, and which we find unacceptable.  There are items, for example, the crisis at Emandleni Youth Camp, where suddenly, instead of spending R3.3 million, we now have to appropriate an additional R2.2 million to bail them out of a crisis, a crisis of which we are not quite sure what the cause of it is.  Nor are we sure that we are in fact getting any value for money from that camp, and that, certainly in the next budget, will be an item for considerable debate in this House, and I am sure in the Committee.

The second item that causes us some concern, is the vote for the Provincial Parliament.  Mr Speaker, it is quite unacceptable that this House can allow a situation where our vote is in the chaos that we have seen in the last year, and in fact in years before.  That is an embarrassment that we need to sort out.  The fact that we have to appropriate an additional R5,5m in the current year to see the Legislature through, is not acceptable and we should address it.

That brings me to the serious matter of the Department of Economic Affairs and Tourism and the cancer on our books which is the KwaZulu Transport Corporation.  Now there may be very good reasons for keeping albatross going, but we kid ourselves year after year as to the amounts that are going to be required to sink in this bottomless pit.  At the beginning of the year we appropriated, under protest, R10m to assist KZT.  Now we find that we have to appropriate an additional R29m.  A total of R39m in a single year, into what I personally consider, and my party considers, really an unredeemable situation and it cannot be allowed to continue in the face of other needs in the Province.

Police, the Security Services, the additional appropriation there of R3,5m is indeed only a transfer, but it does relate to the Peace Secretariat.  Here again I ask, what has this Secretariat produced that this Province can actually point to as a delivery or a benefit to the people of the Province.  We should reconsider that as well.

Then, the last and the biggest item that I want to refer to, and that is this matter of the R174m set aside for RDP.  The Minister has no choice in this matter.  They were conditional grants by National Government, and he simply has to provide, set aside the surplus as he explained, so that he can in fact accommodate a roll over to the next year, because the money has not been spent.  But we have debated time and time and again in this House the merits of this, and I say we should look at it again, we must not waste the money.

THE SPEAKER:  The member's time is up.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr M R Mzobe, for eight minutes.

MR M R MZOBE:  Mr Speaker, hon members of the Legislature, it is common knowledge that history repeats itself.  At the beginning of the new dispensation, the IFP lead Government was the only self-governing territory which had a clean financial record throughout the Republic of South Africa.

In view of the most unprecedented economic decline in our country and financial constraints, which have not only culminated in the unprecedented unemployment, but has resulted in the retrenchment of teachers which is unheard of in the history of Education.

Sir, it is a reality that Finance is the heart and the lifeblood of any administration.  I therefore would like to congratulate the IFP Minister, Mr Peter Miller, the Minister of Finance, for having been able to reduce the deficit that the Provincial Government was faced with, in spite of the shoestring budget.

Sir, hon members of the Legislature, it goes without saying that if provinces were given more power, they would not experience such financial crises.  I therefore call upon the Central Government to devolve more power from the hands of a few, to the second and third tiers of government, for the people to feel a touch of true and real democracy.

For these reasons, I support the Adjustments Estimate.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER: Olandelayo ohlwini lwabakhulumi, ngicela ilunga elihloniphekileyo uMnumzane J Mkhwanazi uno-four minutes.  [The next one on the list of speakers, I ask the hon member, Mr J Mkhwanazi, who has four minutes].

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Ngiyabonga Baba Somlomo, ngiyaxolisa ngokuba later-nyana angiphathekile kahle ngasesiswini.  [Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I apologise for being a bit late, my stomach is not well].

Mr Speaker, I want to start off by saying that we support the KZN Adjustments Estimate Bill.  But before I sit down, I want to say that we express our appreciation for what the Minister and his Department have done, because historically, this Province, for many valuable reasons, has always been under-funded.  The new Government of this Province inherited a lot of people, and a lot of different departments.  For instance, in the Department of Education, you had five departments some of the biggest departments in the country, being fused into one department, that is the Department of Education.

Before the Minister replied to my questions, I was going to ask why we have to have the Adjustment Estimates every year.  Then he answered my question, because he said this year we are covering every skweletu  [debt].  At the beginning of the next financial year, if I understood him correctly, we will not have these roll overs like before.  

I was going to ask him in fact if he had not answered my question, I was going to tell him, "How do you people budget?  Is it bad budgeting, is it reckless spending, what is the problem?"  I did get some answers, that as from 1976 - and I want to believe that as from 1994/95, we must have had these roll overs, that is what I believe.  I am not trying to be good to the Minister and his Department, I am trying to be honest, that is my belief.  

But every year we have had to request these Adjustment Estimates.  I was beginning to get fed-up with how you are budgeting?  I hope, this is all I want now, is for the Minister to assure us that this time next year, he will not come back and ask us again to have this Adjustment Estimates.  That is the assurance I would like to have from the Minister, if I understood him correctly.  I thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Siyabonga.  Sengizobiza ilunga elihloniphekileyo uMnumzane M A Tarr ozokhuluma eight minutes.  Mr Tarr is not in?  Sizoqhubeka ngoba nakhu ngibona sengathi ilunga alikho elihloniphekileyo.  Ngizonikeza ilunga elihloniphekileyo I C Meer ozokhuluma u-20 minutes.

TRANSLATION:  Thank you.  I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr M A Tarr, who will speak for eight minutes.  Mr Tarr is not in?  We will continue because it seems that the hon member is not in.  I will give time to the hon I C Meer, who will speak for 20 minutes.  T/E

MR I C MEER:  Mr Speaker, I was told that in Parliament itself, when one debates, brevity remains the spice of life.  I want to take this opportunity of informing this Legislature that in the Finance Committee ...

THE SPEAKER:  I would like the hon member to put his mike on, please.

MR I C MEER:  This was not on, I moved to this side, but one should move more to the left than the right.  [LAUGHTER]  I think that is a message from some divine guidance here that goes beyond the Speaker of the House, and the red light is not of my choice either.

What I want to say is this, that as far as the Finance Committee is concerned, particularly in the past year, the Finance Committee has been able to monitor each and every one of the 15 departments month by month, and that report has to be given to the full Legislature.  We have been able to get each of the 15 departments to function with caution and as a result, this morning when we had the Finance Committee meeting, what was brought here by our Minister of Finance, is something which comes to you unanimously from the Finance Committee.

Therefore it is important that even if brevity is essential, we should emphasize that we are thankful to the Finance Committee, its Chairman and every member who has contributed towards this new development as far as our own five years' existence is concerned.  Next year it will bring even better results, and so Mr Mkhwanazi will not have to ask the question, but he will have the answer that there will be fewer amounts that we will need.

What is also important, and we hear this repeatedly, that we spend less on a particular department than another province.  The Central Government is no longer giving us separate amounts for each of the departments.  That has to be done by us.  Let me repeat that, the amount we spent on Education was not determined at a national level, it was determined by us.  Of course we took into account the amount that was previously spent and so on, but the amount was determined by us.  That amount we have said over and over, that we have the biggest Education Department in all of South Africa, in all of these nine provinces, and that in the past we were under-financed.  No-one can say that KwaZulu-Natal is not getting a fair measure from the central funds any more.  We have had many, many decades of under-funding and we are still groaning under that.  We have continued to demand larger and larger amounts, rightly so, because of the position in which we are.

My contribution is this, that we have come to you because you have finally to determine what to do with the additional amount that is required.  I must compliment Minister Miller for the very concise way in which he has presented his address to us on this whole question.  Accordingly, I do not intend speaking for 20 minutes, I think I have spoken for two minutes, and that is done with the recommendation that we unanimously approve of this Bill.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon Minister to reply to the debate.  Thank you.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Speaker, I intend to keep my reply brief.  I know the lateness of the hour.  I want to thank all members who have so generously supported this Bill this afternoon.  It is indeed a great comfort for a Minister to have multi-party consensus on an issue like this and I am grateful for it.

I am also very grateful for the many valid points that have been made by members, and in the interests of brevity I will not, as one would normally in a budget debate, acknowledge and go through the points one by one, because I do realise there is yet a debate to come this evening.  I want to deal with some of the more important issues.  Firstly, may I say, and I look directly at the Chairman of my Portfolio Committee, and I look to Mr Haygarth and I say, we take your point.  I will formally, at the end of this reply ask you, Mr Speaker, to adjourn the House maybe for five minutes to allow the Committee simply to formalise what they had already actually decided this morning.  I have consulted with the Chief Whip, and although I am assured that the Rules were intended actually for the main budget and not for a supplementary money Bill, the fact is, the way they read at the moment, they do, I think, apply to what we have today, and so, I will be asking you to do that.

I just want to deal briefly with the question of the use of the debt redemption reserve.  It is indeed true, the point raised by the hon Mr Haygarth, that had we not touched the debt redemption reserve, we would have in fact reduced debt by over R600 million.  But sir, I also say to you that in the course of getting a handle on the way the finances are managed in this Province in the last year, we discovered lurking monsters there that we never knew about, such as the contractual obligations which had not been rolled over.  We have had no alternative, because we never knew that this problem was there until we had investigated it properly.  I can assure you that the debt redemption reserve in the future will not be easily touched, because we are not going to create the problems this year in anticipation of eating into next year's debt redemption reserve.  The point is well made and I acknowledge that.

I also just want to deal briefly with some of the points raised by the hon Mr Nel, and to say that we are all, including my hon colleague, the Minister of Economic Affairs, up to here with the unredeemable situation in KZT.  I think I can say with reasonable confidence that this is the last dip into the cherry bowl in regard to that particular situation.  We were persuaded to do it this one and last time because of the dramatic change in the subsidisation of commuter transport, which completely changes the picture and gives us perhaps a chance to redeem the situation.  For myself, and I say so openly in this House, I have said for four years that the situation in that particular organisation is unredeemable, to the extent that my colleague was desperate with me, because I always said to him when the requests came for money, where is the money going to come from?  But in this case, we actually ran the risk of an immediate liquidation had we not done it.  We would have had no chance at all to test whether the new commuter subsidy set up would work for us, and in the process, we are the only equity holders in this company, all the equity is owned by us.  The fact that the equity has got negative value at the present time, I guess is not the issue.  But we have done that and we are very conscious of the problems around that matter.  I also just want to assure you that I am quite certain that now that the R174 million in the RDP Fund is aside, it is reserved, it is there, that we, as a Cabinet, under our new Premier, are going to deal with a dramatic new initiative to get that spent properly in the interests of communities.

I want to say to my hon friend, the hon Mr Mkhwanazi, sir, I am afraid that every single year from now into eternity, you will have an Adjustment Estimates Bill, even if it is to adjust only by one cent.  The real measure of an Adjustment Estimates Bill is how small is the amount that you adjust, because it is simply not possible, a budget is an estimate and it is never possible, not even in paradise, to estimate 100%, but it is a measure of how competent your budgeting is if your Adjustment Estimates are small.  This last year, for example, the huge bulk of our Adjustment Estimates is a procedural issue actually, because we had to adjust the estimates to accommodate the improvements of conditions of service.  We never had that money in May when we made our budget, we only got it subsequently.  We have to use the technique of Adjustment Estimates in order to incorporate it into our financial accounts.

Before formally moving that we adjourn for that small moment, Mr Speaker, I just want to say for the record, that this Province, and we know it, and everybody acknowledges it, actually does still get less than the agreed equitable share.  It gets it, but we know we are getting it and we know it is being corrected, but in the spirit of co-operative governance, we know it cannot be corrected in one year.  So the budget that will be presented to you in two weeks' time will be based on 19,5% of the amount allocated to the nine provinces.  Over a period of five years, our share of the amount allocated to provinces will grow to 20,7%, a whole extra percent.  That whole extra percent, in terms of our budget, runs into hundreds of millions of rand.  We will be getting that, and however, it is simply not possible, without causing huge disruptions, to correct that immediately.  Much of that acknowledgement comes from the facts now available as a result of the 1996 sensus, and the correction of that census where they acknowledge that they had originally counted 800,000 too few people in our Province.  The matter is being attended to, but it is one that we must publicly acknowledge and we must all know, and it is being corrected dramatically each year.

It is also of interest to note, since it was raised by the hon Mr Meer, that we spent just fractionally more than 38% of our total budget on matters of education.  The medium term expenditure framework which we have in place for the next three years, keeps that percentage consistently at that level.  The other fact that we must remember is that before we even start allocating funds, we take 85% and we set it aside for the three social services, Education, Health and Welfare.  That is split in a ratio, at the bottom end, Welfare gets just over 20% of that 85%, or 20% of the 100%, coming out of the 85%, Education gets 38%, that is 58%, so what is left, whatever the balance is goes to Health.  It is a very, very major portion of our budget in this Province.

With those few words, I again thank all members for their support for this Adjustment Estimate and I formally ask, Mr Speaker, that you adjourn for the shortest time possible, simply for the Finance Portfolio Committee to meet, that we take the point made by the hon Mr Haygarth, so that they can then formally report to the House their support as a Committee for this Bill, at which time we can then deal with the reading of the short title and the passing of the Bill.  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Yes.  Hon member Mr Volker?

MR V A VOLKER:  In a spirit of trying to be helpful, there is another way of dealing with this.  I would like to move that we suspend Standing Orders 132 and 133, as to enable this Legislature to finalise this without adjourning, without complying with that, because in fact, it has already been complied with, it was an oversight.  I therefore move that we suspend the Standing Rules 132 and 133 to allow us to proceed with finalising this Bill now.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, hon member Mr Volker.  In fact I have been told that the Portfolio Committee has met and decided upon this matter.  As a result, the hon member Mr Makhaye will report on the outcome of this meeting.  Therefore I will ask the hon member Mr Makhaye to report back.

MR D H MAKHAYE:  Mr Speaker, the Portfolio Committee on Finance has met and supports the Bill.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  What a short report, thank you so much.

KWAZULU-NATAL ADJUSTMENT ESTIMATES BILL  -  PASSED

THE SPEAKER:  I request the Secretary to read the Bill.

THE SECRETARY:  Adjustment Estimates Bill, 1999.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  We now move on to Item No 8.2.

8.2	DEBATE ON A MATTER OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE - VIOLENCE IN KWAZULU-NATAL.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member, Mrs Cronje.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, as indicated earlier, we would like the opportunity to address you on this matter before the House.  From the ANC's side we would like to argue that the request which has been submitted to you is fatally flawed for the following reasons:

The first reason, and I am referring to that letter which has been circulated.  I believe all members now have it in front of them, the first flaw is that there is no date to the letter.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  It does indicate at the bottom of the letter, I think you should hear the painful truth, it does indicate at the bottom of the letter that it was received by your office on the 25 January 1999, which, if my memory serves me well, was a Monday.  The request as purported in the letter to be made in terms of Rule 101.  Rule 101 deals with matters of urgent public importance.  We do have a Rule 100 which deals with matters of public importance.  I would argue that Rule 101 is inapplicable because on the 25th, which is now some 15, 16 days ago, a matter might have been urgent then, but it no longer is, there has been a serious time lapse.  That is one remark, I will have more to say about this Rule.

If we look at the actual letter, as I have already said, it purports to proceed in terms of Rule 101.  If we look at Rule 101, it says :
	
	A private Member may on any sitting day request the Speaker in writing to allow a matter of urgent public importance to be discussed by this House.

It has to be done before 12:00 and all the rest of it.  As I have already said, you cannot have it both ways.  You cannot argue that something is of urgent public importance and then let 15, 16, 17 days go by.  If we continue looking at that letter, we will see that the request to you is to allow a discussion on a matter of public - now it is a matter of public importance, the urgency has been dropped, suddenly - "I propose that the matter be discussed on 4 February 1999".  I assume that this request has lapsed, because it has not been brought to my attention that the request was renewed for today.  We are dealing with a lapsed request at best.  The request is no longer before you, Mr Speaker, with respect, because according to my calculations, today is 10 February and I do think it is common cause.  The wrong date, the request has lapsed.

The very interesting thing about this letter - and I think we should read it together,

	In terms of Rule 101 of the Rules of Procedure of the House of KwaZulu-Natal Legislature, I propose that you allow a discussion on a matter of public importance -

no urgency suddenly,

	I propose that the matter be discussed on the 4th of February as there will be a sitting of Parliament.

There was no sitting of Parliament on 4 February, but what strikes one about this letter is that there is no topic, and this goes to the heart of the matter.  A request to you, Mr Speaker, must surely contain a topic, because I think you as a lawyer will know that when I make a request to you, if you want to be administratively fair to me, you should apply your mind to the matter.  You can only apply your mind to the matter if I tell you what my request is.  If I come to you and say I want to discuss something of urgent public importance, I am sure your first question to me will be, "But Mrs Cronje, what is this matter that you want us to discuss?"

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Now there is no reference ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Just give her a hearing.  Order!

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  There is no reference whatsoever in this letter to a topic, none whatsoever, not a hint.  When I asked the hon Chief Whip of the IFP yesterday for the topic, I was given this letter.  You may imagine that I was somewhat baffled that this was the response to my request.  I tried, I tried very hard, backwards, forwards, inside out.

Mr Speaker, then there is another flaw which I think also is indicative of something quite serious.  The letter is on an IFP letterhead.  I have got no problem with that, the hon Mr Gwala, who made this request, is of course entitled to use the letterhead of his party, but, but not as Leader of the House.  He is not Leader of the House as IFP.  I have always understood that when he acts as Leader of the House, that he is acting in a neutral fashion, in my interest as well.  The hon Mr Gwala is clearly confused with his roles as a member of the IFP and his role as Leader of the House.  I would suggest that this is another fatal flaw, because as Leader of the House, if he is acting as Leader of the House, certainly the ANC was not a party to this request.  I doubt whether the other parties were a party to this request, and that would, in my estimation, also further flaw this request.

Mr Speaker, in summary, the dates do not make it urgent, it has lapsed in terms of the dates for which the request was intended.  There is no topic, so you could not have applied your mind to anything before you, and the request is made in the wrong capacity.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, in conclusion, we argue that there is in fact no request before you.  If you find there is a request before you, we would say that it is not validly before you, for the reasons stated.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member, Mr Tarr?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I cannot help feeling that the hon member, in her usual inimitable fashion, is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  I actually get the feeling that being a lawyer, the hon member is coming with very fine points of argument.  I get the impression she is trying to convince a jury in one of these American movies.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  But Mr Speaker, let us address some of the hon member's arguments.

The first thing, the date of the letter.  The date of the letter was the 25th, and you will know, Mr Speaker, unless people over there wish to call you a liar, that the hon member telephoned you on the Sunday before.  He indicated to you what the topic was and as we know in this House, the topic related to the murder of a senior politician and also the murder of other people.  You, Mr Speaker, asked him to put in writing his request for a debate of urgent public importance, and that is what he did.  The topic of the debate, true, is not contained in the letter.  I indicated to the Chief Whip yesterday, and the other Whips also know that the topic, and I verbally conveyed it to them, the topic related to the violence in the Natal Midlands and it was prompted, obviously, by the murder of Mr Sifiso Nkabinde.  So, to say that they did not know what the topic was is simply not true.

Then, of course, Mr Speaker, we get to a more interesting point.  We get to the real nitty-gritty of the issue, not playing around with Rules.  Let us look at our Rules for a moment.  In terms of Rule 100 (2) it is actually impossible to have got anything before this House, because it has got to be done before the adjournment of the House on a sitting day, and of course we were not sitting at the time.

If you look at Rule 101 (2), if we wanted to be sure that we got it on the Order Paper ahead of any other party, the hon Mr Gwala, on a literal interpretation of that Rule, would have had to have knocked on your door at one minute past midnight.

Mr Speaker, those members assisted in drafting the Rules of this House, and it was never the intention that the Rules should be interpreted in such a way that they can frustrate and prevent debates on matters which a responsible House should debate.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  I would argue, Mr Speaker, that on a narrow interpretation of these Rules, an extremely narrow interpretation, I concede they have got a point, I concede that straightaway.  But Mr Speaker, the reality is that those Rules, if they are interpreted in that fashion, it is virtually impossible with the type of sitting that we have in this House, to bring any matter in front of the House.  I will also contend, Mr Speaker, that it never was our intention that that should actually be the case.

Mr Speaker, you are going to have to make a ruling on the matter.  If in fact you are going to follow the narrow interpretation of those Rules, then of course you are going to have to rule in favour of that side of the House.  If you interpret the Rules as something behind which we do not hide, something which was never meant to be interpreted like that, if we had extended and long sittings, then I will argue, Mr Speaker, you need to interpret in favour of this debate going ahead.

Let us look at the real issue.  Senior political leaders in this country have been murdered, brutally gunned down in daylight.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  We have 11 people who have also been slaughtered, gunned down.  Now really, Mr Speaker, if this House is not prepared to debate an issue like that, and we hide behind sophistry like we have heard from that side, then quite frankly, I am disgusted.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!  (INTERJECTIONS).

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  It is our responsibility in this House to show the public outside there that we are concerned about issues like this, that we are doing something about issues like this and we debate them.  We do not hide behind sophisticated, narrow, legal arguments to try and duck the issue.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Edwards.

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, the National Party firstly wants to say that it does not want to hide behind any rules.  We wish to debate this matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Speaker, I addressed you as a member, a private member, also on 25 January, calling for a debate on a matter of urgent public importance.  I pointed out at the time it would have to be done on the same sitting day in terms of our Rules, because our Rules are flawed.  When we tried to change the Rules, the hon Mrs Cronje said, "Over my dead body are we going to change them now.  We will wait for the next Parliament".  I will not continue with that, that is another matter.

But to comply with the Rules, I, today, did deliver to your office, at 11:55, and your Secretary signed, repeating our request for a debate on a matter of urgent public importance in terms of Rule 101.  That concerned the on-going serious political violence in the Richmond area, as set out further in our earlier letter to you, which you have acknowledged in writing to us as well.

We have had in the past similar requests for debates.  We go back to 25 July, or 14 July 1998, where we asked for a similar debate.  The previous Speaker did turn that down unfortunately.  The hon Mr Tarr says, "It is a matter we want to debate".  Unfortunately it got turned down then.  We are very happy to let it go ahead now, but quite honestly, in terms of the Rules and in terms of our agreement, we should have more speaking time and perhaps we can discuss that, but we do want to get on with the debate.  I believe we need to find out what is happening in this region, we need to thrash it out and if matters have to be said that are embarrassing to others, they have to be said.  I do ask you to rule that we do go ahead.  The National Party has complied with the Rules and I believe you can ...

AN HON MEMBER:  The National Party or the New National Party?

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  The very New National Party and the very old one too.  They have requested both ways.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Mr Burrows.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, on 25 January at 11:10 we faxed to your office a call for a debate on a matter of public importance in terms of Rule 100.  Quite deliberately Rule 100 because Rule 101 would only provide for a debate to be called on the day of the sitting.  In that we called for a debate on the subject of political violence in KwaZulu-Natal, with particular reference to the events in Richmond.

Mr Speaker, as you are well aware, I was informed by the Chief Whip of the IFP that in fact the letter from the hon Mr Gwala, Leader of the House, had been received by you beforehand.  Mr Tarr, at my request, telephonically communicated with you on Monday and you indicated that this letter was received in your office before 11:10 on Monday.  If that is the case, I am happy to concede that the IFP have a prior right to it.

I must however indicate to you that simply in terms of administrative procedure, because in terms of the time allocation to parties, there is a very, very significant difference whether a party is awarded the debate or not.  Let me give my case, if we were awarded the debate, we would have something like 22 minutes to speak out of an hour.  If we are not awarded the debate, we have four minutes to speak.  So there is a major distinction over which we would argue.  I would request that in future all communications be time-received in your office.

The second point is the point raised by Mrs Cronje and Mr Tarr addressed it, that we have to - and I am afraid it is you, sir -have to apply your mind to 100 (2) which is:

	The Member shall make the request to the Speaker before the adjournment of this House on the previous sitting day.

A matter of public importance.  That would have meant that I would have had to have submitted this letter to you in November last year in order to get a debate today.  We have got to interpret that.  If it is interpreted in the words of the Rules, it is impossible to comply with a matter of public importance ever in this House.  I must indicate that to you.  However, if we are going to negate that clause, then I would, with respect, argue that you must also negate 101 (1), which says that you may only request a matter of urgent public importance on the sitting day before 12:00 noon.  I am simply saying that if you are going to stretch the Rules to knock one clause out, you have got to stretch it to knock the second one out.

Sir, we want the debate to take place.  Let me make it quite clear that apart from the case cited by the predecessor speaker, Mr Edwards, about the Speaker ruling out a debate in July last year, you may remember that in January/February of last year, a debate was granted by the Speaker to the Democratic Party and the National Party, on exactly this topic.  The Cabinet overruled the Speaker.  Mr Tarr must not get so anxious here and say they want to publicly debate it and really, it is these people who are being sanctimonious.  Quite frankly, sir, we have got to decide that this debate must take place, that we must all participate in it, and if I was to suggest anything from my side to you, that with the spate of matters before you, that you would allow a time for a re-allocation of the hour and let the debate go ahead.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, members.  I have listened to the debate and it was very interesting that members could argue in this way.  In terms of Rule 80, when the Chief Whip of the majority party arranged the Orders of the Day, he was supposed to consult with representatives of each party.  The Orders of the Day indicate that we will deal with this matter today.

Again, I do understand the problem the members are faced with regarding the interpretation of this Rule, but I did grant the request as requested.  Whether the request was made before the 4th or today, the fact of the matter is that I granted the request, and today I wish to give the members the opportunity to discuss the matter in this House.

I will therefore continue with the Order Paper as it is and request that the matter be debated.  I will therefore call upon, in terms of the list, the hon Minister Inkosi Ngubane, to open the debate.  He has got 10 minutes.  Thank you.

INKOSI N J NGUBANE: (Minister of Traditional & Environmental Affairs and Safety and Security):  Thank you, Mr Speaker and the hon House.  The matter or problem of violence in Richmond is not new to KwaZulu-Natalians.  During the pre-election time people were dying in their numbers in Richmond.  We as the IFP, have  complained on several occasions but nothing happened, why, because it was due to political pressures.

After the dismissal of the late Mr Sifiso Nkabinde by his former party, the ANC, problems started in the form of political tension.  People started to die, especially those who belonged to the ANC and UDM.

I proposed, Mr Speaker and the hon House, that all political parties must sit down around a political table to discuss this issue.

HON MEMBER:  Hear!  Hear!

INKOSI N J NGUBANE: (Minister of Traditional & Environmental Affairs and Safety and Security):  I was really shocked to hear some reluctance from the side of the ANC to such negotiations.  In fact the ANC's argument was that if they spoke to the late Mr Nkabinde, talking to him would be recognising him.  I told the ANC that it was not a matter of recognition, but people were losing their lives.  In other words, it was a matter of saving people's lives in the area.  At the same time it does not mean to say any party must be recognised by the ANC in order to survive, or to be known by all the communities.

Because of my failure to convince my colleagues on the ANC's side, I then took the matter to the Cabinet.  The Cabinet showed its dismay towards the reluctance from the ANC, who insisted that the matter was criminal but not political.

What was worse, Mr Premier and the hon House, was the remarks in the ANC circles supporting their provincial leadership.  Mind you, my proposal was not based on bilateral talks between the ANC and the UDM, but with all political parties.

What is also very bad is that the people who are refusing to participate in the talks are those who do not live in Richmond.  Are those who are not living within the area of Magoda.  Are those people who are not living within the area of Ndaleni.  And most of them, if not all, are those who have security.

While we are engaged in peace talks, especially with the ANC in the Province, such remarks raise the question whether there is any seriousness in these peace talks, or not.  The Richmond issue is both criminal and political.  It needs both legs.

Another very serious matter is that of political interference into the investigations by politicians.  One usually wonders what their aim is.  Is it to misdirect the investigating officers, or not?  We do require, as a Police Department, information from the public, but Mr Speaker and the hon House, to go to the extent of even demanding that such a case should be investigated by so-and-so and not so-and-so, cannot be tolerated and will not be tolerated in future.  The Government of Provincial Unity does not auger well when certain members of this House will only liaise directly with the National Minister and totally ignore me as their colleague in the Province.  This is what is happening in the matter of Richmond.  Some of my colleagues are writing directly to the Minister at national level, or write directly to the National Commissioner at national level, and thus totally ignore me.  That is not the manner in which to promote our Government of Provincial Unity.

In fact, Mr Speaker, I did warn that the deployment of security forces was not an overall solution.  We need political negotiations among parties because the police are trained in policing matters and not in political solutions.

It was unbelievable for the provincial ANC to get support from its national leadership.  You will remember, sir, that when it was announced that even the hon President also thought the killings in Richmond were criminal and that it had nothing to do with politics.  That is why he said that he has his own way of addressing the issue.

We must know, hon members, that before the assassination of Mr Sifiso Nkabinde and 11 others, all the police powers were driven from the National Department.  Even the police members were criticised as having failed to do their job and were replaced by national members.  This was done without any discussion between the Provincial and the National Departments, they just did it on their own, showing their power that, we are in power in the Republic of South Africa, we do not need to liaise with anybody.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

INKOSI N J NGUBANE: (Minister of Traditional & Environmental Affairs and Safety & Security):  What is strange is that soon after the death of Mr Nkabinde and others, just the following day, the police administration was handed back to the Province.  I was informed by the Provincial Commissioner, "Inkosi, as from yesterday, after the death of Mr Sifiso Nkabinde and the 11 others, well it is your indaba now".  It has come back to the Province again.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

INKOSI N J NGUBANE: (Minister of traditional & Environmental Affairs and Safety & Security):  The question that arises is how did these people die in the presence of almost 600 security members, deployed by the National Government in Richmond.  Why did they die.  The local members were useless, that is why they were pushed away because of their uselessness.  That proves, Mr Speaker, that the  deployment of security forces alone does not solve any political problems without any involvement of the politicians.

Let us help the police, but not dictate to them as what to do and what not to do.  Police are professional people, and they know their job.  I say once more that the deployment of security forces will not solve the problem without any political input in resolving violence.

Mr Speaker, what happened just after the 1994 elections?  We all know that our colleagues on the side of the ANC requested the Portfolio of Safety and Security in the Province, but the IFP refused, as we all know.  I have been informed by reliable sources, that during a provincial meeting on the side of the ANC, a resolution was taken that no matter involving policing will be reported to the Provincial MEC responsible for Safety and Security.  All correspondence will be taken up with the National Minister.  This is what has been happening.  This person informed me that they did not experience problems during the time of the hon Minister Mtetwa, they could do that successfully.  He also informed me that they did not experience problems during the term of the former Premier, Dr Mdlalose, who was also responsible for Safety and Security.  But this man said: "You, Inkosi Ngubane, you are a problem".  That is what he said.  Therefore I am trying to expose that what is being done in the area is being done purposely in order to undermine the IFP as a party.

Therefore, I am going to appeal to my colleagues from the ANC to try and address the situation in such a way that we promote this Government of Provincial Unity.  I thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr B Cele, for nine minutes.

MR B H CELE:  Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, the topic was not given so one could not apply ones mind, or her mind, properly to this.  
HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER

MR B H CELE:  And beyond that, the Chief Whip of the majority party, when he tries to explain, he emotionally blackmails this House.  He comes and talks emotionally here and fully notes the part of what is happening with the question of the deaths and what then happens after that.  To him, it is nothing else but in theory that people die. 

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR B H CELE:  That is why he took this occasion to be emotional and to blackmail the people out of it and blackmail the world out of it.

Coming back, maybe to what has been said by the Minister of undermining the IFP Government here in this Province, if I am not mistaken, he is the third or fourth Minister of Police in this Province.  Unfortunately, I cannot see the Minister now.  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR B H CELE:  I cannot see the Minister and that is so out of order.  I have requested the Ministers telephone number thrice and he cannot give it.  He cannot provide his telephone number as the Minister and as the Chair of the Portfolio that he serves.

AN HON MEMBER:  He runs away.

MR B H CELE:  Well, I did not see an ambulance taking him out of the House, so surely he is not sick.  But having said that, all other Ministers that were present can bear me out that we can pick up the telephone at any given time and relate and relay to that Minister if there is a problem.  All, without exception, and they have all been IFP, as no other party has had this position.  I am talking about the Province, except this one.  Maybe he was keeping it so that he comes and he says it is here, well indeed, he has barred the communication himself.

Having said that, maybe other members will talk about Richmond.  I want to believe that we as the leaders of the ANC will remain committed to listen to what people and members of the ANC say.  The Minister says it is not the people of Richmond who do not want to talk.  I wonder if he has had the opportunity to go there and address them.  We can take him there tomorrow and address those people and hear from them what they say.  Maybe he will receive more civilized information than the information he provides here.

What we say here, is what the people of Richmond say.  Some of us present have spent lots and lots of hours with them.  But the question of talks at Richmond is not about talking to criminals.  It is quite interesting what we heard.  We are now debating the matter that occurred on Saturday at Richmond, whilst we had so many other massacres in this Province.  Six people at Harding, 96 at KwaNositha.  People were killed at Richmond indeed, and we are talking about it now.  Senior people were killed at Paulpietersburg, people were killed at Greytown, and nobody refers to that because it has no political significance that people want to score points on.  The matter is not about the killing at Richmond, it is about political high-flying.  That is why we are talking about this matter.

Why do people want to rise above the bodies to be heard, why?  Why do you not talk about the other deaths in the Province, but choose this one?  Because you know you can make a political statement with this murder.  Why is that happening?  You say that the answer at Richmond is to arrest the people that have killed more than 120 people.  This power of the police, given to them by National, came late when this string of people, starting with the Mayor of Richmond, were murdered.  In other areas, where the police have not been taken powers from National, there are no arrests.  We have all these murders without any arrests in this Province, including Richmond, by the way.  That is the first questions we need to answer before we talk about talks.  Arrest the killers, you stop the killings.  You do not talk when people just kill the people.  You arrest the killers and then the killing will stop.

AN HON MEMBER:  Arrest them.

MR B H CELE:  That is what you are saying.  One more issue before my time expires.  It is quite interesting that when I asked the question why Philip Powell, the hon member, Baba Ntombela, the hon member, were seen so close to and received Sifiso when he came out of - I asked them if they are ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR B H CELE:  There is nothing wrong with that.  There is nothing wrong with that, but what ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Just give him a hearing.

MR B H CELE:  The question is why would they speak on behalf of the UDM, even in Parliament?  Are they joining the UDM, or what?  We do want that explanation.  We did want that kind of explanation.  We hope Baba Ntombela will answer that question when he speaks.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order!  Order, please!  Mrs Cronje?

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  The hon Mr Powell has asked the hon Mr Cele: "Are you going to kill us as well?"  I think that statement needs to be withdrawn without condition.  You cannot say to the hon Mr Cele: "Are you going to kill us as well?"  What is he implying?  He must withdraw it immediately, unconditionally.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member, Mr Philip Powell?

MR P POWELL:  Mr Speaker, I can reveal in this House that I was informed by the SAPS that they had received intelligence of a meeting held in Pietermaritzburg which was attended by the hon member who had the floor, at which a plan was made to assassinate me.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR P POWELL:  I received that information from the SAPS, and I am therefore quite entitled to ask the member: "Have you signed my death warrant yet?"  I refuse to withdraw.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Mrs Cronje?

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  The hon member cannot conveniently forget that he said: "Are you going to kill us as well?"  From the ANC's side, we demand that he withdraws that unconditionally.

MR P POWELL:  I think that I have offered a reasonable explanation.  I received a warning from the SAPS in the last three weeks, that they had information, this is not information from me, of a meeting which was attended by the hon member who had the floor, where a plan was being made to assassinate me and they instructed me to take additional security measures for both my family and myself.  I think I am quite within my rights to ask the hon member has he signed by death warrant, and whatever else to do with my death.  I most certainly will not withdraw that.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member Mr Ngidi?

MR N V E NGIDI: (Whip):  We cannot in this House be told facts that are rumours.  Mr Powell, the hon member, wants us to accept rumours.  He has made a statement which is unparliamentary and he just must withdraw it.  He must not come and spread rumours here.

THE SPEAKER:  In terms of Rule 70, I will ask that the member withdraws his statement.

MR P POWELL:  Mr Speaker, after placing on record the fact that I received information that the hon member was in fact involved in a plot to kill me, I will withdraw the statement.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  I will ask the hon member to continue to speak.  Order!  Hon Minister of Transport?

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Mr Speaker, this is quite serious now.  It is very serious.  Plotting to kill anybody in the democratic South Africa is a crime.  You do not have to kill the person.  If you plot to kill somebody it is a crime.  The hon member Mr Powell says he has information that there was a plot to kill him.  We demand that that information be produced and charges be preferred.  We cannot accept - it is on a point of order, it is a point of order.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  The member here is saying that a member of this House has been involved in a criminal activity, namely plotting to kill.  That statement must be withdrawn.  Mr Ngubane must confirm that the police have issued that statement.  If the police have issued that statement and they have not preferred any charges ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  They have not preferred any charges against Mr Cele, then those police are part of the Third Force themselves.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Why are they not charging him?  We are not going to have that, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order, order! 

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Unless, Mr Speaker, you want to turn this House into a circus.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order!  Hon member Mr Tarr?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I think your ruling was correct.  In terms of parliamentary procedure we are supposed to all be hon members in this House and as such one hon member cannot be accused of plotting crimes or whatever it is.  You did make the ruling, Mr Speaker.  Mr Powell, after having indicated that he had received information from the police as to what the situation was, he also withdrew his statement and I think we can now proceed, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon member to continue with his speech.  You are left with four minutes.

MR B H CELE:  Mr Speaker, I will request my colleague, Mr Powell, to immediately when  we leave this House to repeat the statement so that we take it from there and get out of the parliamentary umbrella.  So immediately when we adjourn I will definitely request ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order, order! 

MR B H CELE:  I will definitely request the member to repeat what he said and we take it from there.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order, order, order!  The hon member Mr Gcabashe?

MR S GCABASHE:  A point of order, Mr Speaker.  This issue will not be resolved in the manner in which we are trying to run this debate at this point in time.  These allegations are serious.  Even after your ruling my two colleagues are still continuing.  Therefore I will request that this matter should be referred to an ad hoc committee, which will investigate the statement made by the member in the House.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  As far as that is concerned, I will make a ruling later.  The hon member to continue.

MR B H CELE:  Mr Speaker, I hope I have not lost the trend of trying to deal with this serious matter that is taking place in the Province.  The murders that are taking place, not only at Richmond.

The plot that was raised by the colleague, in this Province we are in possession of military intelligence reports.  The members of the Portfolio Committee have this information.  It mentions the names of the members and nobody has taken up this matter to see to it that it is investigated.  I am talking about the emphatic structure in the Province, where people like Baba Ntombela, Sifiso Nkabinde, Inkosi Nyanga Ngubane and Philip were mentioned in the military report as the people who were perpetrating violence in the Midlands.  And this Parliament - yes, there is that military intelligence report, members have received it, and that has not been investigated.  If we are serious about violence, those are concrete issues that we should be running, rather than come here and make silly debates and making political ...

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member has got one minute to go.

MR B H CELE:  Those are the things that members should ensure must happen and then maybe we will begin to get to the root cause of the violence in this Province, rather than come here and talk about rumours and all that kind of thing.  But there are concrete things that we can do.  At the end of the day I hope that all we will do is to make sure that lives are saved.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Advocate Schutte, for seven minutes.

ADV D P A SCHUTTE:  Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you very much for allowing this debate, despite the technical problems that there may have been.  Mr Speaker, I cannot think of a matter of greater public importance than murder and violence.  With the murder of Mr Sifiso Nkabinde, a former member of this House, followed by the massacre of some family of 11 persons, this Province again has been blemished, our reputation has been blemished as the Province that is being hounded by political violence and bloodshed.  The question must be asked, when is this going to stop, when are we going to act with resolve to stop it?

Mr Speaker, the dangers of an upsurge of political violence in this Province is very obvious to us all, we need not argue it, but what we should argue in this highest body of this Province, is those actions and procedures that are absolutely necessary to stop this.  I believe we should now argue it and rather stop making accusations against each other.  When we talk about violence, Mr Speaker, we talk not only about violence and murder in Richmond, we talk about violence and murder all over this Province.

I would like to suggest to this hon House three very crucial steps that will bring violence down in this Province.  First of all, and we have argued it before, we need a permanent judicial commission to be set up in terms of the National Constitution and Mr Speaker, we have indeed put forward a proposal to this end to this Parliament, and it is being dealt with.  Such a commission, Mr Speaker, I believe, will ensure expeditious investigations and transparency.  Both those aspects are crucial, essential ingredients for a successful drive against the scourge of political violence.

When those involved in this kind of violence realise that their actions will be effectively and expeditiously investigated and exposed, then I believe we will finally put an end to this matter.

The so-called Goldstone Commission, Mr Speaker, and that was also implemented with the support of the ANC at the time, was very successful in bringing down violence before the 1994 election.  We obviously need such a body in this Province at this stage.  As I have said, the National Constitution specifically makes provision for this.  This body should have the stature, should have the credibility, should have the power, to effectively deal and investigate the kind of allegations that we have also been exposed to in this Parliament at this stage.  Mr Speaker, if that body was effective in the run-up to the 1994 election, why can it not be effective in our present situation in this Province?

The second step that I would like to argue, Mr Speaker, is that it is very clear that political violence is a matter which affects all the political parties in this Province.  It does not only affect the so-called warring parties.  Political violence affects and undermines the political freedom of all the parties in this House and also outside the House.  Because of that, Mr Speaker, all parties should be involved in seeking solutions to this problem.  I therefore hail what the hon Minister has said in this regard, that all parties should be involved.  I mean all parties should be involved.

Mr Speaker, if we look at that, and if we look at the practicalities of the situation in Richmond, just to refer to Richmond for a moment, I believe that if all parties are involved, one should look at practical steps of relieving the tension there.  One of them should be to investigate the establishment of a direct route from Magoda to Richmond, not through Ndaleni.  I believe that in itself would be a practical measure to relieve the tension in the area.

The third point and last point, Mr Speaker, that I would like to raise, and that follows from the first point, is that all parties should be willing to talk to all other parties to resolve this problem.  This particularly applies to the governing party, because the governing party has the heavier overall responsibility of ensuring, not only law and order in Richmond and in Natal, but in the whole of the country.  It is just not good enough for the governing party not being prepared to talk to any other political party.  That is not good enough and I believe that leads to the kind of recriminations that we have seen here today, also to intolerance and eventually to violence.

Mr Speaker, I believe that these steps are simple steps.  I believe that if they are followed they will make a difference in this Province and I believe that we all should now attend to this as soon as possible.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Burrows.  You have got four minutes.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, on Saturday 23 January, a past member of this Legislature, was killed.  Just under a year ago, a member of this Legislature was killed, Bheki Mthembu.  In Richmond, over the past 18 months, 110 people have been killed.  In this Province, over the past two years, several thousand people have been killed.

Mr Speaker, Richmond is a symptom of a greater evil that is besetting this Province.  There is such great passion and such great bloodshed to so little purpose.  It is not converting anybody politically.  It is not capturing pieces of turf.  There is not a war going on over which people are gaining economic benefits.  Why is this political killing going on, Mr Speaker?  It is going on for political ends only, so people can be seen to be bigger, or stronger, or more blood-thirsty than another party.  Quite frankly it is the innocent largely who are dying as a result.  It is all political parties that have a responsibility.

We have had a spat today between the ANC and the IFP, at a certain level of leadership.  At another level of leadership, Mr Speaker, they are talking about merges.  The same people.  Now whether it is true, or whether it is not true, no-one is denying it, fine.  No merger.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR R M BURROWS:  All I am saying, Mr Speaker, is that the political parties concerned, cannot have it at both levels.  They cannot hate each other and love each other at the same time.  It is not possible.  So somehow, somewhere, these have got to be thrashed out.  And yes, if the IFP and the ANC can sit and discuss and argue matters, then I must tell you, the ANC and the UDM have got to do it as well.  I am not saying that you are not saying you will not talk, because I have heard your Chairman of the Province say he will talk to the UDM, and yet when I go to Richmond and I sit with the Richmond Council and I talk to the Mayor and the ANC councillors, they will not talk to the UDM.  Quite frankly, there has got to be a meeting of minds.  I am not saying you dictate to them, but there has got to be a meeting of minds.  And so the role of political parties is important.

Mr Speaker, and to the Premier who is new to this, within this Province, let us say there is a role of the Government as well.  The provision of lights.  We have four lights in Ndaleni and two lights is Magoda.  Why did Nsomi and Associates with the RDP funds refuse R300,000 for the installation of more lights?  I am glad the hon Minister of Finance is now trying to find some more to get more lights in that area.  But there is a role for Government.  Why has Government in two years not even replied to the letter of the schools in the area, complaining about their conditions, complaining about the Ndaleni School that has no water in its hostels to keep running.  Why has the new school erected with such fanfare, attended by Portfolio Committee members at its launch, why have the accounts not even been paid for that school?  There is a role for Government.

Finally, Mr Speaker, a commission of inquiry.  On 4 April 1997, at a Safety and Security meeting, chaired by the hon Mr Cele, and with Mr Makhaye, and Mr Jeffery, and Mr Konigkramer, and Mr Powell, and Mr Ntombela present, they all voted for a commission of enquiry into Richmond, all of them.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION.

MR R M BURROWS:  Precisely.  Now let us say, Mr Speaker, that that commission is appointed, whether it is a permanent one as suggested by Mr Schutte, or not, or whether it is an ad hoc one, the important thing is to look at the issue.  When Mr Ragavaloo, the Mayor of Richmond, says to us that of the 110 people killed in the last 18 months, 106 were ANC ...

THE SPEAKER:  You have got 30 seconds.

MR R M BURROWS:  Then, Mr Speaker, we need to take notice, because that is a matter that needs to be investigated, and if it is true, then questions must also be asked of the other side, why are so many ANC dying?  Mr Speaker, there has got to be a commission of inquiry, we have too many rumours, too much going on in the media, let us get a commission of enquiry, if necessary behind closed doors, not McNally and not you.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  [LAUGHTER].

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon member, Mr M B Gwala.  You have got nine minutes.

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  Mr Speaker, the hon members.  Since 1991, Richmond has been a divided community - a community constantly ravished by violence, torment and the loss of lives.  The acronyms of terror in Richmond have once again resurfaced.

Richmond has become a virtual war zone.  All this violence is not new.  Yet, we never get to the perpetrators of this violence.  For too long people made us believe that a Third Force exists.  The ANC, together with its so-called oracles, has constantly strategized to foist guilt on certain "third" force elements.  This clearly is an attempt by the ANC to scurry blame on someone else and avoid any political responsibility.  The ANC has constantly blamed this third force for anything that falters in this new dispensation.

I have constantly been at the forefront of peace talks and the ANC has incessantly pointed to a third force.  Yet I would like to know why is this third force never spotted or prosecuted?  There really is no bogeymen, ghosts or a third force.

The proliferation of crime, anarchy and terror is really threefold.  Political analysts and commentators have tried to analyse the situation with all types of theories.  I, for one know that the catalysts of these violent upsurges is namely political parties or a political party and lawlessness on the part of the ANC.

Firstly, we know that the ANC has a history of intolerance, for many years the ANC did not recognise the IFP.  One just has to scratch the surface to recognise the ANC's refusal to accept the IFP.  Reminiscent of these killings, is the killings of so many IFP members who were killed in that area.  Is some party trying to gain territorial victory over Richmond?  One does not need to employ intelligence officials to investigate this.  The ANC does not want to recognise the UDM.  The strategy of the ANC is very simple, Mr Speaker, identify the political adversary and eliminate them.  It is time that the ANC accepts political responsibility and not jump to unfounded conclusions.

The Acting Minister of Safety and Security, who was acting at the time, Steve Tshwete, told the media that the police were following up a number of leads, "none" of which he claimed had anything to do with politics.  Also, the ANC in KwaZulu-Natal, including Mr Makhaye, the hon member, called people not to jump to unfounded conclusions.

After Nkabinde left the ANC, he found a political home with Bantu Holomisa in the UDM.  In an effort to vindicate him, the ANC decided to eliminate him and destabilise the Richmond area and consequently peace in KwaZulu-Natal.

A burning question that arises is: why has the police been so ineffective in this area?  We know that the ANC is in control in that area.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Cele?

MR B H CELE:  I hope I did hear Mr Gwala very well that the ANC decided to eliminate Mr Nkabinde when he was expelled from the ANC.  I want him to clarify exactly what he means by elimination?

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House): In fact, I am talking about the political elimination, that is what I am talking about.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  You may continue.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, order!  Hon member Mr Cele.

MR B H CELE:  Mr Speaker, I have requested, before Mr Gwala responds that he should repeat himself verbatim.  Verbatim, he should not begin to doctor the statement, he must repeat himself verbatim.  Then we will talk about doctoring thereafter.  If he could just repeat himself verbatim.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Mr Gwala, hon member Mr Gwala?

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  No, I do not think that I will respond to it, because it is not a point of order.  It is a political statement that Bheki is making.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  The second issue I want to raise ...

AN HON MEMBER:  It is not a point of order.

MR B H CELE:  Yes, but who makes the ruling?  Is it the member that is on the floor, or it is the Speaker that makes the ruling?  Because the member has made the ruling and the Speaker just concurred.  Who makes the ruling in this House?  Can that be clarified, who makes the ruling in this House?

THE SPEAKER:  Can you help us here, hon Chief Whip?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I really believe this matter has been resolved, if the hon member would listen.  What Mr Gwala said was that the ANC were planning to eliminate their opponents.  Mr Cele then took a point of order and Mr Gwala corrected himself, he said "No, I meant they meant to politically eliminate their opponents".  So I think he actually rectified what he meant, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member, Mrs Cronje?

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I think the question posed by the hon Mr Cele to you goes to the heart of the matter, who makes the rulings in this House.  Mr Speaker, I think as the ANC we are entitled to your protection as much as anybody else.  May I respectfully and humbly request you to make impartial rulings and to protect all parties in this House equally.

If I may just quote to you very briefly from Erskine and May:

	The chief characteristics attaching to the office of Speaker are authority and impartiality.

That is all we ask of you, no more, no less.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I must bring the following matter to the attention of the members.  I am doing all I can.  The hon member Mr Cele requested that the member should explain what he meant by killing.  Mr Gwala did attempt to explain what he said.  Now to ask whether I am the one who is supposed to make a ruling or the member, the answer lies in the fact that the hon member Mr Cele did receive an explanation from the hon member.

I am the one who is supposed to make the ruling.  It is a fact.  I do not know why the hon members feel that I am not fair.  I am trying my best to be fair, hon members.  Thank you.  Let us continue.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Gwala, continue.

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  The second issue I want to raise is the issue of lawlessness.  Yet again, the ANC have used the State organ as its collaborator.  Mr Speaker, the ANC has removed provincial troops from Richmond and deployed troops from Pretoria, as Inkosi Ngubane indicated earlier on.  What is this tantamount to?  Simply this, the ANC would make everyone believe that the provincial government is inefficient.  Clearly, had the ANC deployed troops being so productive and efficient, people like Sifiso Nkabinde and others would still be alive.  Yet, the ANC is quick to apportion blame to everyone else.  The Ministers are quick to have us believe that there are political elements involved like taxi wars and other ridiculous sounding excuses.  This is far from the truth.  We know that the ANC is quick to digress and apportion blame somewhere else.  However, the ANC's repudiation that there was any sort of political motivation behind the killings, has now led to the refusal of both President Mandela and Deputy President Mr Thabo Mbeki to meet the UDM leadership to discuss the violence in Richmond.  Clearly this is a political ploy by the ANC not to take political responsibility.

I have been vocal throughout the Richmond massacres in calling for police to track down these killers, yet these "killers" seem to be some kind of "untouchables" - why are they not found out?  The time has come to remove "suspect" police out of the area immediately.  I am disillusioned with the deployed police, because it means that the police are unable to carry out their primary duty to provide citizens with basic security.  Are the police also playing party politics?

A further question that begs to be answered is why was Sifiso killed so swiftly, so publicly?  Ironically two weeks after his acquittal Sifiso Nkabinde told the media that "There was a bullet with his name on it".  This means that Sifiso must have known his enemies.  Could it be he had grudges from his past, or from his past colleagues?  Were the people unhappy with his acquittal so that they had to assassinate him?  Could the resuscitation of his political career ...

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  A point of order, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, order!  Hon member?

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, the hon Mr Gwala is on very, very thin ice.  His statements are very craftily worded, but they are actually unparliamentary and full of implications and innuendos against the ANC.  I ask you once again, Mr Speaker, to protect all parties equally.

THE SPEAKER:  I am doing that, hon member, Mrs Cronje.  The hon member to continue.  Thank you.

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House): Could the resuscitation of his political career give someone a motive to eliminate him, or was it that Sifiso Nkabinde knew too much?  Mr Sifiso Nkabinde had information relating to a number of robberies and heists committed by a political party.  

THE SPEAKER:  One minute to go.

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  In the presence of his advocate Mr Shane Matthews, Mr Sifiso Nkabinde made a statement that he would give the IFP information on these robberies.  Mr Speaker, I do not accept any of these ANC concocted aspersions that there are no political motives.

Another incident of the Richmond mayhem was the fact that the alleged perpetrator of the Ndabezitha home, where 11 people were massacred, this perpetrator was released on R5,000 bail for a previous massacre at the Richmond Tavern.  Consequently he was shot dead by police and it is simply incongruous that one of his bail conditions was that he would not be seen anywhere near Richmond.  When the law and order can by bypassed and a political adversary gunned down in daylight, one can clearly say that the ANC has failed miserably in its attempts to ensure governability.

Mr Speaker, during the Richmond massacres, I have been vocal in calling for peace.  As a co-chairman of the Peace Committee, I believe that the time has come for the ANC leadership to take prime responsibility for these killings.

THE SPEAKER:  The members time is up, please.

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  All right, thank you so much, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon member Baba Mkhwanazi.  Two minutes.

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker, two minutes.  How long will our people continue to die violently at the hands of their fellow men?  This is the lone voice.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  It has been the lone voice of the PAC crying, not in the wilderness, but in this hon House and in public, in KwaZulu-Natal.  We therefore, within these two minutes, wish to reiterate a humble appeal to all of us to put our heads together and seriously address and find a lasting solution to this killing of our people.

The solution does not depend on the number of police or army members that are deployed or even the amount of lights that are erected.  The solution lies with us all.  We may be 1%, we may be 50%, we may be 80%, but it lies with all of us.  Let us stop these killings.  Some suspect killers are arrested but due to the nature of our laws and Constitution, they are granted bail.  While they are on bail it is alleged that they kill again.  Subsequently, they themselves get shot by the police.

What is the solution?  The solution lies - whether we like it or not umoya phansi ma-Afika.  Yonke lemfishi-mfishi eniyikhulumayo umoya phansi, asihlale phansi silungise lezinto.  Ngiyabonga izwe elethu.  [Calm your spirits, Africans.  With all this confusion you are talking, calm your spirits.  Let us sit down and rectify this thing.  Thank you.  The country is ours].

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member's time is up.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon Minister Ndebele to address the House.  He has got nine minutes.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  On 16 July last year, in a TLC that is run by the National Party and the IFP, at the door of that TLC, an hon member of this House was assassinated.  Just outside the door of a TLC run by the National Party and the IFP.  That hon member was a sitting member here, Comrade Bheki Mthembu.  Nobody called for an emergency sitting or anything.  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Nobody called for an emergency sitting or anything.  There was not a matter of urgent importance then. 

In another TLC that has 13 councillors, 11 of whom are ANC, 90% therefore ANC, family ANC, it is not a quarrel for turf, 116 people have died, 110 of those people were ANC.  I am the Chairperson of the ANC.  I know who are members of the ANC, publicly and secretly.  They have been killed.  One hundred and sixteen people have been killed, 110 of them from the ANC.  Six of the other people who were killed were at Magoda.  The other 110 were all in ANC areas and they were killed under the cover of darkness.

It is our people who are being killed.  How did we get to that level?  We reached that level of having 11 councillors out of 13, by first expelling, we had to re-run elections, we expelled Sifiso Nkabinde on 7 April 1997, and he forced nine of those people to resign.  Those who did not resign were killed.  The Deputy Mayor van der Bijl was killed.  He had an election.  We beat Sifiso Nkabinde who got 43 votes.  We did not need Sifiso dead in order to defeat him politically.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  We were able to defeat him hands down politically.  That TLC is family ANC and it is going to be ANC for a very long time.  The crime of that area is that it has African, Indian, coloured and whites supporting the ANC.  It is the only centre in South Africa where you have that.  The counter revolutionaries said that that would not happen.  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  In 1992, 1993, we came to a certain decision.  Previously we were running to De Klerk to say: "Stop the train killings", "Stop Boiphatong", "Stop assassinating our leaders".  Then we said, no, we are making a mistake, this is not a party of peace, the ANC itself must lead the establishment of peace in South Africa, and we succeeded.  After Inkosi Ngubane spoke I was very saddened.  Inkosi Ngubane, a very senior member of the IFP says: "Is there any seriousness in these talks between the IFP and the ANC?"  We have now arrived at a point where we have said for the sake of the people of KwaZulu-Natal, peace is too delicate to be entrusted with the IFP.  The ANC must lead the process of peace.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  The ANC is supported, not whimsically by people ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Let us give him a hearing.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Who will be supporting peace when it is nice to do so and when the going is tough it is not popular, because you might not be on top of the list, they are talking war.  Since Dr Ben Ngubane left, these members who were talking about peace are now talking about war, even Inkosi Ngubane.  They are now saying: "To hell with the talks".  Is there any seriousness with these talks?".  We have arrived at that position.  For the record, when we arrested ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, order!  Hon member Mr Tarr.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, this has been by its very nature an acrimonious debate, but Mr Speaker, you will know, and all other members in this House know, that you cannot accuse another member or another party of doing something which is illegal.  That is unparliamentary.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I am trying to protect my member right now, if you will give me a chance.  If my ears heard correctly, the hon Minister accused Minister Ngubane of advocating war, fomenting war.  Quite clearly, anyone who does that, it is totally illegal, totally unconstitutional and I believe that should be withdrawn.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member?

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I quoted and you can go back to the record, what Inkosi Ngubane said.  A senior member questioning the talks that are lead by the President of the ANC and the President of the IFP.  He posed the question: "Is there any seriousness in these talks between the IFP and ANC?"

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  A person in Unit 17 who questions the talks that will be understandable, but not a leader who is part of these talks, to question them, simply because it is convenient, it might put him on top of the list.  Mr Speaker, we are saying that ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Do not take a chance, do not take a chance.  We are saying that it is the supreme challenge of the African National Congress to bring peace to KwaZulu-Natal.  We are the only party that have gone through all our structures and informed them about the peace process.  We have gone to COSATU, we have gone to all the structures.  The structures of the IFP, up until today, even though we agreed on 27 May 1996, have not yet been informed about the peace process.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  When that peace process is questioned, they will not understand what is happening.  We are now saying that we have delayed the leadership of the ANC leading this Province for five years.  It was correct to do so.  We agree to delay it for another 100 days, but after that, the people of KwaZulu-Natal are going to be led into peace.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Minister has got two minutes to go.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  That peace will liberate members of this House.  We also want to say that this House is aware that six truck loads, it has been said under oath in court, of arms were brought here by Mr Powell.  Where are those arms?

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Where are they being distributed?  Six truck loads, under oath, it has been said have been brought here.  Nobody wants to investigate that.  Let us investigate it. 

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order!  Order!  Hon Chief Whip?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I do not believe I even need to argue the case there.  That is such an outrageous statement.  It is an allegation, it has never been tested, it has never been proved, and for that statement to go out from this House into the world, creates the impression that the hon member on my side is fomenting violence and unrest in this Province.  The media is sitting up there, they are going to quote it.  Mr Speaker, I insist that the hon member withdraws that statement.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member?

MR J H JEFFERY:  That fact is something that is known, it is something that has been stated under oath by Eugene De Kock, it is in numerous books, and it is something also, Mr Speaker, that has been raised in this House before.  I do not remember Mr Tarr jumping up and down at that point.  It is something that is part of the public record, as it were.

AN HON MEMBER:  Jump like a yo-yo.

THE SPEAKER:  Before you continue, Mr Minister.  Mr Tarr?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  The argument being raised by the hon Mr Jeffery is absurd, it is spurious.  Really, Mr Speaker, to quote a reliable authority such as Eugene De Kock, as a source, it is simply outrageous.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, a point of order.

THE SPEAKER:  Before you continue, hon member Mrs Cronje, can you let him finish his remarks then I will come back to you.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  He has not finished, please.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  It is the hon member's right to make a point of order, but surely I can finish my point of order first, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Please continue?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, that statement made by the hon Minister about Mr Powell bringing six truckloads of arms into this Province, using none other than the famous Eugene De Kock as his source, it is outrageous.  It is not acceptable, it must be withdrawn.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member, Mrs Cronje?  Order, please, Mr Makhaye.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, my understanding of the Rules of Procedure has always been that you take a point of order when that point of order arises.  Mr Tarr had made his point of order prior to the hon Mr Jeffery speaking.  Then he jumped up and started a debate.  So I wanted to take a point of order on the fact that Mr Tarr was not busy with a point of order, but that he was now debating the merits.  I was unfortunately not allowed to make that point of order.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Hon member Mrs Mohlaka?

MRS B S MOHLAKA:  Hon Speaker, may I please remind the hon members to address the other hon members as hon members and not as Mike Tarr and not as Powell.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  I will request hon members - order, please order.  I will try to be very strict regarding Rule 70, which reads thus:

	No member shall use offensive, or unbecoming language.

I will request members to control their tempers.  Please.  Therefore I do not want to be hard.  Hon member, Mr Hamilton, please?

MR A J HAMILTON:  Mr Speaker, I wanted to draw your attention to a comment by the hon Jeffery about he will put them on the list.  I would like Mr Jeffery to elucidate on which list he was referring to.  [LAUGHTER]

THE SPEAKER:  Continue with your speech.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Mr Speaker, you will not count the minutes that have been taken.

THE SPEAKER:  Yes, yes, I have done so.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Mr Speaker, I want to appeal through you to the leadership of the IFP, not to bring controversial issues that disrupt the talks that are on and then when you are no longer in the Legislature of KwaZulu-Natal where you are alone, when we answer back, then it hurts.  It is now a democracy.  It is not like when you were 141 of you, you could say what you want.  So when you bring issues here you must not have thin skins.  The leadership must exercise its leadership. 

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Minister has 30 seconds.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  The leadership of the IFP should not allow its members to bring issues of this nature here and when we say that if there is to be an investigation we must investigate all the allegations, including allegations by De Kock.  Let us have that because we need the truth here.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member, Mr Ntombela.  You have eight minutes. 

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order, please, order, Mr Cele, order!

MR T D NTOMBELA: (Whip):  Baba Somlomo, okokuqala angilungise leyandawo okuke kwakhulunywa ngayo engicabanga ukuthi mhlawumbe izolunga uma abantu besenabo ubulungiswa.  Kukhona indawo lana ethintwe uMhlonishwa laphaya uBheki Cele, la ekhuluma khona ngokuthi laba bama-special branch bathinte igama leNkosi, negama lami, negama lika-Powell.

Ngicabanga ukuthi uBheki Cele uzokuqonda lokhu ukuthi ilekwangena loHulumeni okuthiwa ubumbano likaHulumeni kwadaleka.... angizukuphazanyiswa inina.  [UHLEKO]

Ngicabanga ukuthi iyo kanye inkinga esifake enkathazweni kule-Province, ngoba kulandwe abantu ababesekudingisweni okuthiwa bawuMkhonto bazofakwa kuzona zonke iziteshi lezi.  Manje okusho ukuthi labobantu bafakelwe ukuthi bakwazi ukubhubhisa amanye amaqembu aphikisana no-ANC.

Iloko engicabanga ukuthi ileyonto okufanele mayibhekwe futhi ngicabanga ukuthi Baba Somlomo.....

THE SPEAKER:  Order hon member Mr Cele.

MR T D NTOMBELA: (Whip):  Baba Somlomo, ngicabanga ukuthi kuyangihlupha mina David Ntombela ukuthi kungani namhlanje uma kukhulunywa ngendaba yase-Richmond kususwe umsindo omkhulu kangaka.  Ngoba ngicabanga ukuthi wonke umuntu okulendlu ukhathazekile ngezinto ezenzeka e-Richmond.

Baba Somlomo, ngicabanga ukuthi nendlu ehloniphekile - iqiniso elingephikwe ukuthi uzakwethu lapha ngaphesheya owuSihlalo kule-Portfolio Committee yakwa-Safety and Security uMhlonishwa uBheki Cele wakusho kwagcwala umlomo ukuthi abasoze bayihlonipha Inkosi uNgubane.  Noma ngabe benzani abasoze bayibikela Inkosi uNgubane.  

Nizokhumbula ukuthi kubulawe uNyoka eMatimatolo u-ANC akazange aphawule ngalutho ngokufa kukaNyoka nendodana yakhe, akukho ake akuphawula u-ANC.  U-ANC akazange aphawule lutho ngokukhathazeka ngokufa kukaNkabinde kodwa esikhundleni salokho u-ANC ukhulume into eyilumbo ukuthi ngabagadi baka-ANC okungenzeka ukuthi bambulele.

Bakhuluma ukuthi kukhona isandla sesithathu esingenzeka ukuba siyathinteka ekufeni kukaNkabinde.  Mangisho Baba Somlomo, ukuthi mina David Ntombela nabazwelana nokufa kwanoma imuphi umuntu, i-IFP ikhiphe amalunga ayo ayohlonipha mhla kufe ilunga elalikulendlu uBheki Mthembu, baya bayomgcwaba.

Uma sekufa uSifiso u-ANC akazange enze lutho, akazange enze lutho esikhundleni salokho wagwemisa ukuthi ubulewe ubani uSifiso.  Ngidabuka kakhulu ukusho ukuthi ngelanga lomgcwabo uzakwethu lapha owuSihlalo wale-Portfolio yezokuPhepha wayekhona e-Richmond ehleli phansi kwesihlahla nabafana angazi ukuthi wayegadeni.  Isimanga ewuSihlalo angimazi ukuthi wayefunani lapho.

Mangishoke Sihlalo ukuthi ukufa kwabantu into edabukisayo ngoba ukungahlonishwa kuka-Minister we-Province Inkosi uNgubane kukhombisa ngokusobala ukuthi u-ANC ufihle induku emqubeni, ngoba uma kwenzeke into kwi-Province isho uMhlonishwa i-Minister uMafumadi uvele ahlise amaphoyisa ngaphandle ngokuxhumana neNkosi uNgubane azogidagida la, awazi ukuthi asuke ethweleni.  Asuke ezokwenzani?

Okwesibili njengoba ezinye izikhulumi sezikhulumile ukuthi afikile amaphoyisa - uHulumeni omkhulu wawakhipha amaphoyisa e-Richmond wabanika ojolisaka wathi awaphume wafaka awakhe.  Kodwa kuyadabukisa ukuthi uSifiso Nkabinde ufe emini ilanga libalele emgwaqeni omkhulu ukuthi ayekuphi lawomaphoyisa.

Mangisho ukuthi namhlanje sikhuluma udaba olubi engicabanga ukuthi u-ANC no-IFP laba abaholwa u-Premier wala, noBaba uNyambose, noMhlonishwa uNxamalala laphaya kwakhiwe izinhlaka zokuba kube khona ukuthula phakathi kwalamaqembu omabili kwaze kwafakwa i-National Party, o-DP, nawonke amaqembu ngoba kwakhiwa ukuthi akube khona ukuthula.  Kuyamangalisa ukuthi sikhuluma namhlanje ngendaba embi yase-Richmond.

Bengithanda ukubuza Baba Somlomo, ukuthi uphi umkhwenyana wakwami uMhlonishwa uMkhize sizokhuluma izindaba ezijule kangaka, kungabe uyagula, kungabe uvakashile, kungabe uyephi?  Kuyangihlupha mina David Ntombela lokho isimanga leso.

Ngicabanga ukuthi Baba Somlomo, ukukhipha kwakhe u-ANC enza lezizinto kuyangihlupha ukuthi walelana u-ANC ukuba akhulume nenhlangano ye-UDM?  Ngoba wayibiza ngokuthi izigebengu.

Angazi Baba Somlomo, ukuthi amanye amaqembu anjengo-National Party, no-DP, no-PAC no-IFP babekhuluma kanjani ngoba uSifiso eku-ANC ubulawe abantu abangaphezu kwe-thousand lapha e-Richmond amalunga e-IFP.  USifiso ufa nje useshilo ukuthi sengizohlanza wonke amaqiniso.

Umndeni wakwaNzimande wabulawa uyena uSifiso enamalunga ka-ANC wawasho amalunga ka-ANC ukuthi obani ababekhona lapho.  Umuntu odiliva izibhamu Ezingolweni wamusho uSifiso.  Umuntu odiliva izibhamu la kule-Province wamusho uSifiso.  Uma kubonakala ukuthi lelithumba liyaqhuma, kuyasimangaza uma eseqhumisa okwekhowe uSifiso afe.  Isimanga into emangalisayo leyo.

Ngicabanga ukuthi akufanele sithi uma sikhuluma loludaba kubekhona izinto ezizofihlwa.  Aziphumele obala ngoba indaba yaseZingolweni siyayazi, siyayazi ukuthi ubani odiliva izibhamu laphayana.  Kwi-Province siyazi ukuthi ubani odiliva izibhamu, siyakwazi lokho.

Kuyangihluphake mina ukuthi sikhulume ngokuthi kubekhona izinto esizozifaka ngaphansi kwekhaphethi ngoba inhloso yethu sisonke la eyokuphephisa imiphefumulo yabantu bakaNkulunkulu.  Uma namhlanje sizokhuluma ukuthula ngala, sizokhuluma ukuthula ngala, uHulumeni oholwa u-Premier we-IFP akhiphe imali yokuthi akubekhona ikomiti lokuthula aze akhiphe izimoto zakhe, akhiphele izimoto zokuthwala izibhamu?  Izimoto zokuthwala izibhamu zokuthi ziyotshalwa ukuthi akubulwe abantu?

THE SPEAKER:  Ilunga elihloniphekile lineminithi elilodwa qwaba elisele.  [The hon member has only one minute left].

MR T D NTOMBELA: (Whip):  Baba Somlomo, ngidabuka kakhulu ngoba igama leNkosi uNgubane, likhona igama lokuthi...

MR B H CELE:  Iphuzu lokunhlanhlatha Baba.  [Sir, he is out of Order]. 

MR T D NTOMBELA: (Whip):  Uhlatshwa yini hlala phansi, hlala phansi. Uhlatshwa zibhamu lezi engikhuluma ngazo, ziyakuluma izibhamu. [UHLEKO]  
THE SPEAKER:  Order please,  ilunga elihloniphekileyo uMnumzane uCele.  [Hon member Mr Cele].  

MR T D NTOMBELA: (Whip):  Somlomo, ngivikele Baba ngoba kufunakala akuqonde ukuthi uyena o-out of order manje.  Futhi kuyangihlupha mina ukuthi uSihlalo wale-Portfolio yezokuPhepha kube uyena emshisayo lento imhlabe.  Angimazi ukuthi uhlatshwa yini, angimazi ukuthi uhlatshwa yini?

Ngoba izibhamu esikhuluma ngazo zigcwele yonke indawo, zigcwele Ezingolweni angazi ukuthi uhlushwa yini?  Siyafuna ukuthi uNkabinde ubulawe ubani?  Labantu abawu-11 babulewe ubani sifuna ukubazi ukuthi labobantu babulewe ubani?

Yini ngempela ekulumayo wena mfana wami, ulunywa yini?  Yini lento ekuhluphayo?  Ngiyabuza ngithi mina namhlanje kufanele nikuqonde ukuthi ayikho into eyoba senfihlakalweni kuze kube ingunaphakade ibhayibheli liyakusho lokho.  Yonke into iyohlala ithi bha okwempahla yembuzi, kunjalo.  Ngiyathokoza. [UHLEKO]

TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, firstly, let me correct that area that was discussed earlier, that I think might be corrected if people still have a sense of justice.  There is an area that the hon Mr Bheki Cele touched upon where he says that those in the Special Branch mentioned the Inkosi's name, my name and Powell's name.  
I think that Bheki Cele will understand that since this Government, said to be a Government of Unity, came in, it created - I am not going to be disturbed by you.  [LAUGHTER]  

I think that this is exactly the problem that landed us in trouble in this Province, because people who are said to be Umkhonto, were taken from exile and placed at every station.  Now this means that these people were put in place so that they can destroy other parties competing with the ANC.  That is what I think should be looked at and I also think that, Mr Speaker ...

Mr Speaker, I think it bothers me, David Ntombela, that today when the issue of Richmond is mentioned, then it starts so much noise, because I think that every one in this House is bothered by the things that are taking place in Richmond.  

Mr Speaker and the hon House, I think that the truth that cannot be denied, is that my colleague across there, who is the Chairman of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, the hon Bheki Cele, said, without equivocation, that they would never ever respect Inkosi Ngubane.  Whatever they do, they would never report to Inkosi Ngubane.

You will remember that when Nyoka was killed at Matimatolo, the ANC did not comment on anything regarding the death of Nyoka and his son.  The ANC did not comment on anything.  

The ANC did not mention anything about its concern regarding Nkabinde's death, but instead, they uttered something sick, saying that maybe it is the ANC guards who killed him.  

They said maybe a third hand was involved in Nkabinde's death.  Mr Speaker, I must say that I, David Ntombela, and those who empathise with anyone's death, the IFP sent its members to show respect when the hon member of this House, Bheki Mthembu, died.  They went to his burial.  

Yet, when Sifiso died, the ANC did not do anything.  Instead of that, it hinted on who might have killed Sifiso.  It saddens me a great deal to say that on the day of the funeral, my colleague here, the Chairman of this Portfolio on Safety, was in Richmond, sitting under a tree with some boys.  I do not know what he was watching out for.  It is amazing.  As Chairperson, I do not know what he was doing there.

I must say, Mr Speaker, that the death of people is something sad, because the lack of respect for the Provincial Minister Inkosi Ngubane, makes it crystal clear that the ANC is not honest.  Even when something happens in the Province, the hon Minister Mufamadi, just sends in police, without communicating with Inkosi Ngubane.  They come in here doing something that shows no progress and you are not sure what it is they bring along and why they are here.

Secondly, as other speakers have said, they arrived.  The Central Government removed the police at Richmond and they told them to get out, and then they replaced them with their own.  But it is sad that Sifiso Nkabinde died in broad daylight on the main road, and where were those police?  

I must say that today we are discussing an awful matter and I believe that the ANC and the IFP, led by the Premier of this place, and Mr Nyambose, as well as the hon Nxamalala over there, creating structures that were intended to create peace between the two organisations.  They even involved the National Party, the DP and all other parties, because they were establishing peace.  It surprises me that today we are talking about the awful issue of Richmond.  

I would like to ask, Mr Speaker, where is my son-in-law, the hon Mkhize, as we are here to discuss such deep issues?  Is it because he is ill?  Is he on a visit?  Where could he be?  That bothers me, David Ntombela, that is a surprise.  I think that, Mr Speaker, he exposed the ANC doing these things.  It bothers me why the ANC is refusing to talk to the organisation, the UDM, because it called its members criminals.

I do not know, Mr Speaker, how other organisations such as the National Party, the DP, the PAC and the IFP were talking, because while Sifiso was still in the ANC, more than 1,000 people, members of the IFP, were killed here in Richmond.  As Sifiso died, he had already said he would divulge the whole truth.  

The Nzimande family was killed by Sifiso, together with ANC members and he mentioned the ANC members who were present there.  Sifiso named the person who delivers guns at Izingolweni.  Sifiso named the person who delivers guns in the Province.  When it became apparent that this boil was festering, it surprises us that Sifiso exploded like a mushroom and died.  It is a surprising thing.  

I think that when we discuss this issue, there should not be anything that is concealed.  Everything should come out in the open, because we all know the issue of Izingolweni.  We know who is delivering guns there.  In the Province, we know who is delivering guns, we know that.

It then bothers me that we talk of some things that we are to put under the carpet, because our aim here, as a collective, is to save the lives of God's people.  When today we are going to talk peace over here, talk peace over there, and the government led by an IFP Premier, spends money establishing a Peace Committee and even issues his cars, cars that will carry guns, cars that will carry guns for distribution so that people can be killed.

Mr Speaker, it saddens me a great deal, because the name of Inkosi Ngubane, there is word that ...

What is bothering you?  Sit down, sit down, you are being bothered by these guns I am talking about, these guns are making you itch.  [LAUGHTER]

Speaker, protect me, sir, because he must understand that he is the one who is out of order now.  It bothers me that it is the Chairman of the Portfolio on Safety who is the one being burnt and bothered by this thing.  I do not know what it is that is bothering him, I do not know what it is that is bothering him, because the guns we are talking about are spread all over the place.  

They are at Izingolweni, I do not know what is bothering him.  I want to know who killed Nkabinde, these 11 people, who killed them?  We want to know who killed those people.  What is really making you itch, my boy, what is making you itch?  

What is this thing that is bothering you?  I am asking.  I am saying, today you must understand that nothing will remain concealed forever.  The Bible states that everything will be exposed like the private parts of a goat.  It is so.  I am pleased.  [LAUGHTER]  T/E

MR B H CELE:  Mr Speaker, accusations have been made.  Could we have police giving this information and these people investigated and charged and the information be sent to the Minister.  Really, we are committing crime by sitting with this information here and do not provide it to the police so that they can do the work.  Could that be done, please?

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  We have come to the end of the debate.  I would like to make the following announcements before we adjourn.  All members are invited to a finger dinner to be held at the Legislature Assembly Canteen immediately after the sitting.  We have therefore come to the end of the Order Paper.  I do not know whether the Premier would like to say something before we adjourn.

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, I have no announcement to make.  Thank you.

	HOUSE ADJOURNED SINE DIE AT 19:25

	DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF
	KWAZULU-NATAL PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURE

	SIXTH SESSION
	SECOND SITTING - FIRST SITTING DAY
	TUESDAY, 23 FEBRUARY 1999

THE HOUSE MET AT 11:50 IN THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER, ULUNDI.  HIS MAJESTY, THE KING, KING GOODWILL ZWELITHINI KABHEKUZULU, KASOLOMON KADINUZULU, IS ESCORTED INTO THE CHAMBER BY THE SPEAKER.

THE KING IS GREETED WITH THE ROYAL SALUTE BY HON MEMBERS.

THE POLICE BAND PLAYS THE NATIONAL ANTHEM.

THE SPEAKER TOOK THE CHAIR AND READ THE PRAYER.

THE SPEAKER:  Let us please be seated.  I will now call upon His Majesty to address the House.

ISILO SAMABANDLA:  Baba Somlomo, Ndunankulu waKwaZulu-Natali, Mntwana wakwa-Phindangene, Abantwana baseNdlunkulu, Amakhosi neZinduna, oSihlalo kanye naMalunga emiKhandlu yeZifunda KwaZulu-Natali.  Amalungu ePhalamende kanye nezinye izikhulu ezivela kwezinye izifundazwe, amaLunga oMkhandlu kaZwelonke, oNgqongqoshe beSigungu saKwaZulu-Natali, namanye amaLungu esiShayamthetho sesiFundanzwe, amaNxusa avela kwamanye aMazwe, iziPhathimandla zikaHulumeni, izimenywa eziqavile, kanye nomphakathi wonke.

Ngifisa nokho ukuba ngizwakalise ukuxolisa, imoto ifana nengane.  Ayingibonisanga ukuthi kukhona okungalungile kuyo ngasezinyaweni zayo.  Ngiyethemba ukuthi uMkhandlu uyangixolela kulokho.

Kungokwesithupha selokhu kwayiwa okhethweni wentando yeningi ngo-1994 ukuba siphinde sihlale sivule ngokusemthethweni isiShayamthetho saKwaZulu-Natali.  Ngezindlela eziningi ngithanda ukuchaza lokhu kuhlangana kwePhalamende njengo-kungajwayelekile.
Lokhu kuhlangana kwenzeka ngesikhathi bonke abaHoli abasezingeni eliphezulu kwezombusazwe bebambisene emizamweni yokuletha uxolo olungunaphakade kulesisiFundazwe.  Ngizobuye ngibuyele kulokhu.

Baba Somlomo, kungokokuqala ukuba ngikhulume eMkhandlwini wakho selokhu wabekwa futhi kwabekwa noNdunankulu uMnumzane u-L P H M Mtshali.  Mangithathe lelithuba ukuba nginihalalise ngezikhundla zenu ezinzima kangaka.  Ngizibonile izinjongo uMnumzane uMtshali azibekele zona njengoNdunankulu wesiFundazwe, ikakhulukazi ukuzinikela kwakhe emizameni yoxolo kanye nokubuyisana.  Ngifisela wena nalabo ozobe usebenzisana nabo isibindi, ukubekezela, nempokophelo ngekusasa, lokhu isikhundla sakho esikudingayo.

Lokhu kuvulwa komhlangano kufanele kuthathwe njengomdlandlathi ngenxa yokuthi kungukuhlangana kokugcina ngaphambi kokhetho lwalonyaka.  Ngakhoke ngalokhu kuhlangana wonke amalunga ePhalamende kufanele abhekisise impumelelo yawo.  Lesi isikhathi sokuba nina nonke enimele abantu nizibuze ukuthi nilifezile yini igunya enalinikwa lokuba ninikeze usizo kubobonke abantu baKwaZulu-Natali.

Baba Somlomo, lesi isikhathi sokuba lonke ilunga ngalinye lalesiShayamthetho likhombise ukuthi kwakufanele yini ukuba liqokelwe iPhalamende lesiFundazwe.  Njengabantu ababambe iqhaza kwezombusazwe, kufanele ukuthi amalunga aleNdlu abheke emuva aphendule umbuzo wokuthi ngempela, ngempela ipolitiki imayelana nani.  Bese kuthi ngokukhanyiselwa yilencazelo bacabange kabanzi ngemisebenzi yabo kuleminyaka emihlanu eyedlule.

Ezincazelweni eziningi ezikhona ngokuthi ipolitiki iyini, ngifisa ukuzixhumanisa nalencazelo ka-Bay echaza ipolitiki ngokuthi "iyizozonke izenzo onjongo yazo ukwenzangcono kanye nokuvikela izimo ukuze kugculiseke izidingo, kanye nezimfuno zabantu emphakathini othize.  Ngokuhambisana nohlelo olumbandakanye uwonke uwonke mayelana nokuhlelwa kwezinto ngokubaluleka kwazo, okungesobala noma okusobala".

Ngokwalencazelo ababambe iqhaza kwezepolitiki njengamalunga ePhalamende kufanele basebenzise isikhathi sabo benzangcono izinga lempilo labantu ababamele nababakhulumelayo.  Esinye sezibopho zomuntu obambe iqhaza kwezombusazwe ukuba axhumane kaningi nabantu ukuze akwazi ukuthola ukuthi izidingo kanye nezimfuno zabo iziphi.  Ngenye indlela ababambe iqhaza kwezepolitiki kufanele njalo bavuselele igunya labo lokukhulumela nokumela abantu, bayokuthi bekwenza lokho bebe bebikela abantu ngokuthi izidingo kanye nezimfuno zabo kubhekwana kanjani nazo ePhalamende.  Lokhu kuxhumana phakathi kwabantu nalaba ababamele ikhona okuyingqikithi yombuso wentando yeningi.

Ngiphosa inselelo kumalunga aleNdlu ukuba ngeqiniso abhekisise kabusha onembeza bawo lawomalunga angenakho ukuxhumana nabantu abamele, nababakhulumelayo kufanele anqume ngokuthi ngempela amele abantu yini noma amele izidingo zawo wodwana na?

Ingxenye yesibili yalencazelo ikhuluma ngokuvikela izimo ukuze kugculiseke izidingo kanye nezimfuno zabantu emphakathini othile.  Kuyisibopho samalungu aleNdlu, ehlangene futhi emaningi, ukuba avikele izimo zempilo ukuze kugculiseke izidingo kanye nezimfuno zabantu ababamele nababakhulumelayo.  Kuyiqiniso ukuthi imithombo yaloHulumeni ayisoze yenela ukuba igculise zonke izidingo kanye nezimfuno zomphakathi.  Kepha ukuxhumana okwenzeka ngendlela eqhubekayo engikuphawule ekuqaleni kuyobasiza laba ababambe iqhaza kwezombusazwe ukuba banqume ngezidingo kanye nezinye izimfuno.

Ingxenye yokugcina yencazelo iphathele nohlelo olumbandakanya uwonke wonke mayelana nokuhlelwa kokubaluleka kwezinto.  Ngesisekelo sezidingo njengobazitholakele ngokuxhumana nabantu, amalungu ePhalamende azonquma ngohlu lwezinto ezibalulekile bese esebenzisa lemithombo enganele ukuba abhekane nezidingo eziphuthuma kakhulu.  Nginxusa wonke amalunga ukuba abambisane ekuqikeleleni ukuthi lenqubo iyenzeka.

Njengoba Isifundazwe saKwaZulu-Natali siwumbuso wentando yeningi manje ngifisa ukukhuluma ngemigomo embalwa yombuso wentando yeningi.  Enye yalemigomo ukubamba iqhaza kwamalunga omphakathi embusweni wentando yeningi.  Leliqhaza liza nezinhlobo ezahlukene njengokumela ukhetho, ukuvota okhethweni, ukufaka izindaba enqubweni yezombusazwe ngokutshela ababambe iqhaza kwezepolitiki, imnyango kaHulumeni ngalezindaba kanye nokwethamela imihlangano yomphakathi kuya ekukhokheni intela.

Mayelana nokuvota okhethweni, kimi kubonakala sengathithi ikhona inqubekela phambili ebisekhona mayelana nokubhalisela abazovota.  Kukhona imibiko ephakamisa ukuthi abanye abantu abafuni ukubhalisela ukuvota futhi ngeke bavote ngenxa yokuthi ababoni kahle mayelana nemisebenzi yaloHulumeni okhona njengamanje.  Nakuba sikhona isidingo sokuhlonipha imibono yalaba abacabanga kanjalo, kepha mina ngigqugquzela bonke abantu baKwaZulu-Natali ukuba babhalisele ukuvota ngokukhulu ukushesha.

Isimo esikhona njengamanje sithi abantu abanomazisi abanamagabelo yibona abakwazi ukubhalisela ukuvota.  Ngakhoke ngithi kubobonke labo abangakabatholi omazisi babo abanamagabelo mabakwenze lokho ngokuphuthuma okukhulu.  Ngitshelwe ukuthi uMnyango weziNdaba zaseKhaya uzilungiselele ukubhekana nokufika kwezicelo eziningi kanye nokunikeza omazisi besikhashana lapho kudingekile.  Sonke masibambe iqhaza silime indima yethu njengamalunga omphakathi azaziyo izibopho zawo.  Sesifike ezingeni lapho kufanele sisebenzele ukuphakamisa izinga lobuholi bethu ngokuzimbandakanya ngendlela ebonakalayo ezindabeni zikaHulumeni.  Uma abantu bengazinaki izindaba ezithinta inkululeko yabo, intuthuko, uxolo kanye nenqubekela phambili yabo.  Futhi uma abantu bezibalekela izibopho zabo njengamalunga omphakathi kepha bebhekane nezindaba ezithinta bona nje kuphela, ngaleyondlela bazibizela uHulumeni ongasebenzi ngekhono, nangempumelelo futhi bazowuthola.

Uma kusekhona izindawo lapho kuthiwa kukhona abangavumelekile ukuba bangene, lokhu kufanele kuqedwe njengamanje.  Ngokuhambisana nalokho ngifisa ukugqugquzela abaholi bezombusazwe ukuba bayeke ukusebenzisa ulimi olucunulayo ngenkathi yokukhankasela ukhetho.  Kwanele ukudayisa imibiko yokwenziwe kanye nokuhloswe iqembu lakho ngaphandle kokunyemba, kanye nokunyundela amanye amaqembu.

Ngalesisikhathi, Baba Somlomo, mangidlulise ukuthokoza kwami mayelana nemibiko yokubuyisana phakathi kwabaHoli bamaqembu amakhulu kulesisiFundazwe, i-IFP kanye ne-ANC.  Amakhulu ngamakhulu amalunga alamaqembu alahlekelwa izimpilo zawo ngezikhathi zawo-1980 kanye nasekuqaleni kwawo-1990.  Futhi ngiyazi ngemizamo emikhulu eyenziwe iwona wonke amaqembu ezombusazwe KwaZulu-Natali ukuba kuvunyelwane ngenqubomgomo yokuziphatha ezohola izenzo zamalunga awo ngaphambili, ngenkathi kanye nangemuva kokhetho lwalonyaka.  Lezizinyathelo eziphokophele ekutholeni uxolo olungunaphakade, KwaZulu-Natali,  zidinga ukusekelwa yibo bonke abantu abathanda uxolo.

Inqubo yokudala uxolo ukuze isebenze idinga ukuba ibe umzamo ombandakanya wonke umuntu.  Uxolo kanye nokubuyisana kuwudaba oluthinta wonke amaqembu ezombusazwe, isonto, osomabhizinisi, abasebenzi abazihlelile, izinhlangano ezingekho ngaphansi kwaHulumeni okhethiwe ama-NGO's, namaqembu anezinjongo ezahlukene kanye namalunga omphakathi.

Udaba lokuthula noxolo lusalokhu lubalulekile kulesisiFundazwe.  Muningi umsebenzi osuwenziwe ngabantu kanye nabaHoli abazinikele ukuba kuhwebeze umoya wokuthula.  Akusafanele nakancane sibuyele umuva manje.

Kuyathokozisa ukubona ukuthi nalabo abakhombisa izimpawu zokukhuthaza ukungabekezelelani, abaHoli bamaqembu abo basheshe babaqoqeqe, babakhombe endleleni.  Kungakuhle ukuba lokukuzinikela ekukhuthazeni ukuthula kuqhubeke njalo.

Sengikhulume kabanzi mayelana nesidingo sokuba amalungu ngawodwana azifune mayelana nokudingeka kwawo njengamalungu ePhalamende.  Manje ngifisa ukukhuluma ngoHulumeni wesiFundazwe uwonke.

Kungumbono wami ukuthi lokhukuhlangana kuzohlinzeka uHulumeni ngethuba lokubhekisisa, ahluze ukusebenza kwakhe.  Umbuzo obalulekile yilo: uHulumeni wesiFundazwe ukwazile yini ukusebenzisa imithombo anayo kahle ukuba kuzuze iningi labantu na?  Ngokubona kwami uHulumeni usedale uguquko ezindaweni eziningana kepha kunezindawo lapho kufanele enze khona kangcono.  Manje, ngamafuphi, sengizokhuluma ngemisebenzi kaHulumeni wesiFundazwe.

EZOMNOTHO

Imibiko esanda kuphuma mayelana nezomnotho ithi isiFundazwe sethu yisona esikhula kakhulu mayelana nokutshalwa kwezimali kwasekhaya, nasemazweni omhlaba.  Amafemi abiza izigidi ngezigidi zama-Randi okungawosomabhizinisi bamaShayina, e-Newcastle, kanye nesiphakamiso sokwakha indawo yokuncibikilisa i-aluminium ezobiza izigidi ngezigidi zamarandi e-Richards Bay, iziboniso zalokhu kukhula.  Kunikeza ugqozi ukuzwa ngenqubekela phambili yezinhlelo ezithinta imitata yethu emibili.

Ngithanda ukucela abatshali zimali kanye namalunga aleNdlu ukuba bazame ukuqikelela ukuthi yonke imizamo iyenziwa, yokuvumela abantu kanye nezinkampani ezazincishwe amathuba ngaphambili ukuba nazo zibe neqhaza ezilibambayo.  UHulumeni wesiFundazwe usefake isandla ekulekeleleni mayelana nalokhu.

Enye yezinto ezingikhathaza kakhulu empilweni yami ukubona abantu baka-Baba bentula futhi bephila kanzima ngenxa yesimo noma yezimo abahleli ngaphansi kwazo.  Niyazi ukuthi isimo somnotho wezwe kasisihle.

Lomkhuhlane ohlasele ezomnotho siwuzwe ubatshazwa emazweni amaningi angomakhelwane bethu kanye nawomhlaba.  Intuthuko yemiphakathi yinto okufanele sibhukule silwele ukuba ibe yimpumelelo.

Manje sekuyisikhathi lapho kufanele kubonakale uguquko ezimpilweni zabantu. Imikhakha eyehlukene kaHulumeni ibhekene nenselelo enkulu kakhulu yokudala uguquko ezimpilweni zabantu.  Kubalulekile ukuba nemiphakathi ikhombise ukuzinikela ezintweni ezithinta intuthuko.

Kuhle imizamo kaHulumeni ithole ukusekelwa emiphakathini ukuze izinhlelo zentuthuko zibe impumelelo.

EZOKUVAKASHA

Ukuvakashela KwaZulu-Natali kwabaphathi bamazwe, abaphathi boHulumeni nabanye abaholi bezombusazwe kanye neziphathimandla ngo-Agasti wonyaka owedlule ukuzothamela ingqungquthela yeNhlangano yaMazwe angaChemile, i-Non Aligned Movement, eyayibanjelwe e-International Convention Centre eThekwini, kanye nokungabibikho kobelelesi, nobugebengu edolobheni ngenkathi yengqungquthela, kubonakala sengathi kwendulela intuthuko kwezokuvakasha KwaZulu-Natali.

Uma sikhuluma ngezokuvakasha kubalulekile ukuba imiphakathi iqonde ngokubaluleka kwezokuvakasha ekukhuphuleni umnotho wezwe.  Kuhle sazi ukuthi uma izivakashi eziza lapha zingenakuhamba ngokukhululeka ngoba zesaba ukudlwengulwa, nokudutshulwa ngeke zibe nesasasa lokuza lapha.  Umbuzo wami munye: sekwashonaphi ukuba kuphathwe abantu bokuhamba ngenhlonipho kuleli likaMthaniya?  Zidutshulelwani izivakashi eziza nemali okungathi lokho ezikuthengayo thina kubekhona esikuzuzayo nangemisebenzi yezandla.

Iqiniso lokuthi i-International Convention Centre eThekwini ekupheleni kwalonyaka izobe isilethe iKwaZulu-Natali izigidi engamakhulu amathathu namashumi ayisithupha ezinkulungwane (R360m) ekukhuphuleni izinga lomnotho, wubufakazi bokuthi izinga lezokuvakasha KwaZulu-Natali liyenyuka.  Lokhu akusho ukuthi sekufanele manje isizithele ngabandayo.  Kunesidingo esikhulu sokuba sibuke kabusha indlela okudayiswa ngayo isiFundazwe sethu ekhaya kanye nasemazweni omhlaba.  Ngifisa ukubona lesisiFundazwe sihola ekuheheni izivakashi zangaphandle kanye nezasemazweni omhlaba.

EZOLIMO

Umkhakha wezoLimo wesiFundazwe ufaka amaphesenti ayishumi nanhlanu (15%) kweZolimo kuZwelonke.  Lokho kunjalo nakuba lesisiFundazwe sinomhlaba ongamaphesenti ayisikhombisa nengxenye engamashumi amahlanu nanhlanu (7,55%) nje kuphela emhlabeni wonke waseNingizimu Afrika.

Uhlelo olwaziwa ngokuthi iXoshindlala olwethulwa ngonyaka owedlule, lwethulwa uMnyango wethu weZolimo lizosiza abalimi abalimele ukuziphilisa ukuba bathuthuke babe ngabalimi abahwebayo.  Njengoba nazi, ezolimi zisondele kakhulu enhlizweni yami.  Ngiyakholwa ukuthi abantu bami bangedlula ebuphofini bawelele kwinqubekela phambili uma besebenza ngokuzikhandla, futhi basebenzise izindlela zolimo ezisekelwe ezeSayensi.  Nginxusa uHulumeni wakithi ukuba ezokuthuthukisa ezolimo akwenze kube ezinye zezinto ezibalulekile, ikakhulukazi ezindaweni zasemakhaya.  Ngakhoke nginxusa abantu ukuba basebenzise imithombo yalomnyango ukuba bathuthukise iziza zabo okumbandakanye kuzo izingadi zalabo abakhe emadolobheni.

Njengoba nginxusa uHulumeni ukuba alekelele kwezolimo, kulindeleke ukuba nemiphakathi isukume ibhunkule kusetshenziswe umhlabathi.  Into ebuhlungu engiyibonayo abantu abangalimile isimo sendlala sibe siyaphambili. Ububha nokwentula okukhungethe elikaMthaniya kuyophela kuphela uma abantu sebebona ukubaluleka kokusebenzisa umhlabathi.  Umnotho walesisiFunda uyosimama uma sikhuthaza ukwanda kwabalimi abangalimeli nje izisu zabo kodwa abakhiqiza ukudla okwanele ukuba bondle imindeni yabo, baphinde badayise nasezimakethe, nokudla kwabo kuphinde kuphumele nangaphandle kwezwe.

UBUGEBENGU/UBELELESI

Ubelelesi kusewuhlupho olukhulu oluyingozi enkulu enkululekweni yethu.  Izelelesi ziyaqhubeka nokusinyonyobela ubusuku nemini.  Kunoma ubani ohamba emphakathini emgaqweni lolusonga luyaqhubeka ngendlela embi njengoba belunjalo.

Kepha sithola ukgqugquzeleka uma sithola imibiko evela kwiziphathimandla zezombusazwe kanye neziphathimandla zezokuVikela kanye nezokuPhepha ezithi izinhlobo ezithile zobelelesi seziyehla.  Zonke izinhlangano zezokuVikela nokuPhepha ziyahalaliswa ngalokhu.  Kepha kusenendima enkulu okufanele siyilime ukuze kulungiswe isimo sokuphepha esiFundazweni. Ukuze kufezeke lokhu, ngimema wonke amalunga omphakathi waKwaZulu-Natali ukuba abeneqhaza ekulweni nobugebengu nobelelesi.

Ubugebengu engikhuluma ngabo lapha akusibo Somlomo, obudlange emadolobheni nje kuphela.  Ubugebengu sebande kuyoyonke indawo.  Akasekho umuntu ozibona ephephile.  Obunye ubugebengu osebande kakhulu, ikakhulukazi emakhaya, ubusela.  Kwebiwe noma yini. Into umuntu ahlangana nayo uyayithatha.  Awusaqondi manje ukuthi lomuntu ngelinye ilanga uzomthola mhlawumbe esentshontsha nokwakhe akubekile abuye akuntshontshe ngoba ujwayele ukukwenza lokhu.  [UHLEKO].  Nginxusa nokho imiphakathi ukuba ibambisane noHulumeni emizamweni yokuqeda ubugebengu nenkohlakalo.

OHULUMENI BASEKHAYA KANYE NEZEZINDLU

Kuyangithokozisa ukwazi ukuthi isilinganiso sokunikeza kosizo lwezindlu KwaZulu-Natali lingolwesibili ngokuphakama, lwedlulwe elase-Gauteng kuphela.  Futhi sengizwile ukuthi ukushesha kokwenziwa kwalomsebenzi kaHulumeni sekuyakhushulwa.

Ukuhlinzeka izindlu kulaba abangenawo amandla azo kufanele kuhlale njalo kuyinto ebaluleke kakhulu ezinhlelweni zezinto ezibalulekile kuHulumeni wesiFundazwe.  Enye yezinjongo zokuhlinzeka abantu abahluphekayo ngezindlu ukuba kuqedwe izindlu ezakhiwe ngendlela engahlelekile, ezakhiwe ezindaweni ezingamiselwanga izindawo zokuhlala, ngalokho kudaleke inxushunxushu kwezokuhlelwa kwedolobha.

IGCIWANE LENGCULAZI/INGCULAZI

Nakuba kunemizamo eyenziwayo yokuhlanganyela neSigungu sikaZwelonke, noMnyango wethu wezeMpilo kanye neNdlu yobuKhosi, yokuqwashisa imiphakathi ngemiphumela emibi esabekayo yokungenwa igciwane lengculazi, ukufa okuxhumene negciwane lengculazi kuyenyuka.  Izimombolo ezikhomba umumo wendaba zikhombisa ukuthi abantu abangaphezu kwesigidi KwaZulu-Natali iyodwa banegciwane lengulazi.  Intsha yethu ikakhulukazi idinga ukuba iguqule ukwenza kwayo izinto, uma kungenjalo Isifundazwe sisengcupheni yenxushunxushu emkhakheni eyahlukene yempilo.

Ngisaphinda ngiyanxusa umphakathi, Baba Somlomo, ukuba sibambisane emkhankasweni wokuqeda ukubhebhetheka kwaleligciwane.  Baningi kakhulu abantu esihamba phezu kwabo bethathwe yileligciwane.  Baningi futhi nabafe izinhliziyo ngoba izingane zabo nezihlobo zithathwe yilesisifo.

Okusethusa kakhulu yilokhu okushiwo ukuthi nawo amakhondomi lana okukhulunywa ngawo asenezimbobo manje, kuyaxakake lokhu ukuthi uma esenezimbobo kuchaza ukuthini lokho? [UHKLEKO]

Ukuthi phela bona abanikezwe ithuba lokuba bakwazi ukuwagcina, bawabekelani budedengu. Kuyingozi kubantu lokho.

EZOKUTHUTHA

Imikhankaso yokuphepha emgwaqeni emiswe uMnyango wethu wezokuThutha iyancomeka.  Kuyadabukisa ukuthi abashayeli kanye nabahamba ngezinyawo abakawushayindiva lomkhankaso ngendlela elindelekile, kepha masingadikibali.  Njengoba kwenzeke ngengculazi amazinga ayo enyukayo nakuba imikhankaso isabalele.  Kuthatha isikhathi eside ukuguqula indlela abantu abenzangayo izinto, nakuba lologuquko luzosindisa izimpilo zabo.

Inqubo yokuhlela ngokomthetho imboni yosomatekisi kanye nokuyelekelela ukuba ingene kweminye imikhakha esondelene yamabhizinisi, okuxhaswe ngokugcwele futhi kuholwa uMnyango wezokuThutha wesiFundazwe, ekugcineni kuyoba nemiphumela.  Lenqubo kufanele iguqule imboni yosomatekisi iyenze ibenenzuzo kakhulu kunamanje, futhi luphele nodlame.

EZENHLALAKAHLE KANYE NENTUTHUKO YOMPHAKATHI

Izinkinga eziphathelene nokukhokwa kwezimpesheni seziqhubeke isikhathi eside kakhulu.

Siyathokoza ukuthi uMnyango wesiFundazwe kwezeNhlalakahle kanye neNtuthuko yoMphakathi usubhekene ngqo naloludaba.  Iziphathimandla ezinenkohlakalo sezibekwe amacala.  Ezinye zazo sezilahlwe ngamacala okweba imali yabakhokhi bentela, zisebenzisa abantu asebethathe impesheni, abangenayo enye indlela yokungenisa imali.  Mayelana nalokhu, ngifisa ukudlulisa ukuthokoza kwami ngomsebenzi wohlelo lwezobulungiswa eseliwenzile ukuthola lezizigebengu zinamacala.  Izinkinga eziphathelene nokukhokhwa kwezimpesheni seziqhubeke isikhathi eside kakhulu.

EZEMISEBENZI YOMPHAKATHI

Ukwabiwa kwezimali okungenele kwenze lukhuni umsebenzi woMnyango wezeMisebenzi yoMphakathi.  Siyethemba ukuthi lesisimo sizobangcono kulonyaka ukuze uMnyango wezeMisebenzi yoMphakathi uhlinzekelwe amahhovisi kanye nezinye izindawo ezifanele.

EZEZIMALI

Kuleminyaka eyedlule uHulumeni wesiFundazwe ubengaphansi kwefu lokuchitha imali ngokweqile.  Kwadingeka ukuba uHulumeni oMkhulu awutakule.  Lokho kwenzeka ngaphansi kwemibandela ethile.  Ijoka lokusebenzisa leyomthetho elukhuni lawela phezu koMnyango wezeziMali wesiFundazwe.  Ukwabiwa kwemali engenele kwenza lukhuni umsebenzi woMnyango weMisebenzi yoMphakathi.

Ngazizwa nginokuziqhayisa umangizwa uNgqongqoshe weziMali kuZwelonke, uMnumnzane Trevor Manuel, encoma uNgqongqoshe wezeziMali KwaZulu-Natali ngempumelelo yakhe eyedlulele ekulawuleni ukusetshenziswa kwezimali KwaZulu-Natali.

Kulemizamo angibongi kuphela uNgqongqoshe wezeziMali kuphela. Ngibona nowayenguNdunankulu uDokotela B S Ngubane neSigungu sakhe.  U-Mqondisi Jikelele, u-Professor O E H M Nxumalo, iziNhloko kanye nabaPhathi beMinyango yezigaba ezahlukene kuHulumeni.

Eminye imibiko emihle mayelana nokulawula ngendlela eqatha izimali KwaZulu-Natali ikhomba ukuthi uMnyango wezeMpilo kanye nowezeMfundo, izilawule kahle izimali eyazabelwa.  Lemibiko isidale isithombe esihle esizodala nakanjani ukuba abatshali bezimali bangangqeni ukutshala izimali zabo KwaZulu-Natali.

IZINDABA ZENDABUKO KANYE NEMVELO

Lomnyango usubambe iqhaza elikhulu ekuqikeleleni ukuthi ubuholi bendabuko KwaZulu-Natali akuyona nje into egcina emlandweni.  Nakubo lomnyango ungumgcini wamasiko kanye nezinkolelo zethu,  futhi kufanele uqikekele ukuthi ubuKhosi buyaqhubeka bukwazi ukuhambisana nohlobo lwaseNtshonalanga lombuso wentando yeningi. Vele indlela yokubusa kwaphesheya nendlela esibusa ngayo kakuzona ngempela izinto ezishayisanayo.

Lomnyango kufuneka uqhubeke ubhekane nokulondolozeka kwemvelo yethu, izilwane kanye nemithombo yemvelo. Okuyingqikitho yomgomo walomnyango, ukusungulwa kokuhlanganyela nemiphakathi yasekhaya kanye nomkhakha ozimele ukuze kuzuze wonke umuntu.  Lokhu kwacatshangwa futhi kwaqala ukusetshenziswa ihhovisi laKwaZulu leMithombo yeMvelo elingasekho, elalisebenza ngaphansi koholo lukaDokotela M G Buthelezi, Umntwana waKwaPhindangene.  Manje sekucacela noma ngabe ngubani ukuthi lena iyonandlela efanele ukuthathwa mayelana nokongiwa kwemvelo.

Ngenkathi ngikhuluma kuleNdlu ngomhlaka 28 kuMashi ngonyaka ka-1996, ngaphawula ngokubhalwa koMthethosisekelo wesiFundazwe owabe usuphethiwe ngalesosikhathi.  Kepha ngaphawula ukuthi kukhona izigaba zomthethosisekelo ezazingakafakwa, ikakhulukazi, lezo eziphathelene neqhaza, kanye nesikhundla sobuKhosi.  Nganxusa leNdlu kanye neKomiti loMthethosisekelo ukuba liqikekele ukuthi lezozigaba ezazisalile kubhekwane nazo ngokucophelela kanye nangokuzimisela okukhulu.

Kuyinto eyaziwayo ukuthi udaba loMthethosisekelo wesiFundazwe sethu kuze kube yimanje alukaphethwa.  Kuyadabukisa ukuthi amalunga aleNdlu ehlulekile ukufeza izibopho zawo mayelana nalokhu.  UbuKhosi baKwaZulu kufanele bunikezwe amandla okusebenza anele ukuze bukwazi ukubhekana nezinselelo, kanye nokubhekana nezidingo zabantu abangqongqoza emnyango wabo.

Uma ngikhuluma ngobuHoli beNdabuko, Baba Somlomo, ngibona kufanele ukuba ngibonge lawo Makhosi aselokhu ezinikele ebuholini obuqotho nokubhekela izidingo zemiphakathi ayiholayo.  Ngifisa ukuba Amakhosi abambe iqhaza elikhulu ekukhuthazeni intuthuko ezoqeda noma ezonqanda ukuntula kwabantu bawo.

Futhi kufanele sikuqonde okwenziwe ngaMakhosi kuzo lezinsukwana ezedlule noma lezinyangana ezedlule ukuqongelela imali yokuba kwakhiwe isikhumbuzo laphaya eSandlwana.  Kuyakhombisa ukuthi bayabukhombisa ubuholi babo.  Kudingeka bayinikezwe indawo yabo yokusebenza ngaphansi kwaloHulumeni.

IMFUNDO

Imfundo ingukutshalwa kwemali okukhulu okungenziwa yisizwe. Ngakhoke imali esetshenziselwa imfundo akufanele ithathwe ngokuthi isetshenziselwe usizo lomphakathi.  Imfundo akufanele ithathwe ngendlela efanayo njengosizo lwezempilo kanye nenhlalakahle yomphakathi.  Imfundo izimele yodwa njengethuba lokutshala imali ngendlela esezingeni eliphezulu kakhulu.  Kithina ingukutshala imali kwinhlalakahle yesizwe saseNingizimu Afrika.  Ngakhoke ngiyahambisana nalabo baholi abayithathela phezulu imfundo.

Kohlala kuyinto embi emlandweni wethu wezemfundo ukuthi imiphumela yebanga leshumi ka-1998 yehla ngamaphesenti amane (4%) uma iqhathaniswa nalena ka-1997.  Ngifisa ukunxusa bonke abafundisi, abafundi, kanye nabazali, ukuba bahlanganyele emzameni yokuqikekela ukuthi imiphumela yebanga leshumi KwaZulu-Natali ngo-1999 ayingabi ngaphansi kwamaphesenti angamashumi ayisithupha. (60%)

Sekusele isikhathi esifushane ngaphambi kokuba sifinyelele ekupheleni kwalenkulungwane yeminyaka esikuyo, okuzoba nezinselelo eziningi.  Njengoba singena enkulungwaneni entsha yeminyaka ngiyakholwa ukuthi kunesidingo esiphuthumayo ukuba sonke sibhekisise kabusha indlela esibuka ngayo imfundo futhi sithole kabusha lezozinkolelo ezinhle kusikompilo lwethu ngabanye.

Uma izwe lethu linesifiso sokubeka induku ebandla kwezomnotho ngokuqhudelana nawowonke amazwe omhlaba kuzofuneka ukuba sitshale izimale kakhulu kwezemfundo kanye nasekubuyeleni emlotheni mayelana nosikompilo lwethu.  Okubi ukuthi isikhathi asilindile thina.

Baba Somlomo, sekuyisikhathi manje imihlangano yaleNdlu yenzeka ngaphansi kwezimo zokuthula, ukubuyisana, kanye nokuvumelana.  Ngikhokelwa kakhulu kulemigomo. Ipolitiki yengxabano kanye neyokuphakuphaku obudalwa ukungezwani akuyifanele iKwaZulu-Natali.  Kuyintshisekelo yami ukuthi lomoya wokusebenza ngokubambisana uqhubeke kuHulumeni wesiFundazwe ozayo kanye nakwabanye abayolandela.

Phezu kwalamazwi, Baba Somlomo, kunginikeza intokozo ukumemezela ukuthi lomhlangano wesithupha waloMkhandlu usuvuliwe.

HIS MAJESTY, THE KING:  Mr Speaker, the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal, Prince of KwaPhindangene, members of the Royal Family, amaKhosi neziNduna, Chairmen and members of the Regional Councils in KwaZulu-Natal, members of Parliament and other dignitaries from other provinces, members of the National Assembly, KwaZulu-Natal Cabinet Ministers and other members of the Provincial Legislature, members of the diplomatic missions to South Africa, senior officials from Government, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen.

I am really sorry because a car is like a child, it did not foretell me that there was anything wrong with its tyres.  I hope the Council will pardon me on that.

For the sixth time since the first democratic elections took place in April 1994, we once again meet to officially open the KwaZulu Legislative Assembly.  In a number of ways I would like to describe this Parliamentary session as a special one.  The session takes place against the backdrop of a united effort by all top level political leaders to find a lasting peace in this Province.  I will later address myself to this theme.

Mr Speaker, it is the first time that I address your assembly after your inauguration and that of the Premier Mr L P H M Mtshali.  May I take this opportunity to congratulate you on your onerous positions.  I have noted with interest the objectives the Premier has set for himself as Premier of this Province, particularly, his commitment to peace and reconciliation.  I wish you, Mr Premier, and all the people that you are going to be working with, the courage, resilience and vision that your position demands.

This opening of the session should be regarded as a watershed one in the sense that it is the last one before this year's elections.  This is, therefore, a session during which all parliamentarians should take stock of their achievements.  This is the time for all of you who represent the people to ask yourselves whether you have discharged your mandates to deliver services to all the people of KwaZulu-Natal.

Mr Speaker, this is the time for each and every member of this Legislature to justify his or her election to the Provincial Parliament.  As politicians, it behoves members of this House to revisit the question of what politics is all about and then, in the light of the definition of politics, consider their own performance in the past five years.

Amongst a number of definitions of politics I wish to associate myself with one by Bay, who defines politics as "all activities aimed at improving or protecting conditions for the satisfaction of human needs and demands in a given society or community, according to some universalistic scheme of priorities, implicit or explicit".

According to this definition, politicians such as parliamentarians, must spend most of their time improving the living standards of the people they represent.  A politician's responsibility is to interact frequently with these people to determine their needs and demands.  In a sense, politicians should repeatedly renew their mandates for representing their people.  As they do so, they will report to the people how their needs and demands are addressed in Parliament.  This sustained interaction between the people representatives forms the core of a democracy.

I challenge members of this House to honestly re-examine their consciences.  Those members who have no contact with the people they represent should decide whether they indeed represent the people or they represent their own selfish interests.

The second part of this definition is about "protecting conditions for the satisfaction of human needs and demands in a given society or community."  It is the responsibility of the members of this House, jointly and severally, to protect the living conditions for the satisfaction of the needs and demands of the people they represent.  It is a fact that resources at the disposal of this Government will never be sufficient to satisfy the demands of the populace.  But sustained interactions I referred to earlier will help the politicians to determine the needs and other demands.

The last part of the definition has to do with a "universalistic scheme of priorities."  Based on the needs as identified through contact with the people, parliamentarians will determine a list of priorities and then utilise the insufficient resources to address the most urgent needs.  I urge all members to join hands in ensuring that this process is observed.

As the Province of KwaZulu-Natal is a democracy, I now wish to address myself to a few principles of a democracy.  One of these principles is citizen participation in a democracy.  This participation takes a number of forms, such as, standing for election, voting in elections, feeding issues into the political process by relaying such issues to politicians and government departments, attending community or civic meetings, and to paying taxes.

With regard to the question of voting in elections, it seems to me that some progress has been made in the registration of voters.  Some reports suggest that some people are not willing to register as voters and will not vote because they are disillusioned with the performance of the current Government.  Whilst there is a need to respect the views of those who think in this manner, I however urge all the people of KwaZulu-Natal to register as voters as a matter of extreme urgency.

As you are aware, the current position is that only persons with bar-coded identity documents are eligible for registration as voters.  I, therefore, call on all those who have not obtained their bar-coded identity documents to do so as soon as possible.  I have been made to understand that the Department of Home Affairs is ready for the influx of applications and to issue temporary identity documents where necessary.  Let us all act as responsible citizens.  We have now reached a stage when we should work towards elevating the quality of our leadership by showing more than passive interest in governmental matters.  If people pay little attention to issues involving their freedom, development, peace and prosperity and when people avoid their obligations as citizens, and only mind their own affairs, they are asking for inefficient government, and they will get it.

If there are still no-go areas for certain political parties, these must be done away with immediately.  In the same vein I would, however, like to urge political leaders to refrain from using provocative language during the election campaigning period.  It is enough to market your party manifesto to the people without degrading or vilifying the other parties.

At this point in time, Mr Speaker, may I express my appreciation for the reported rapprochement between the leaders of the two major political parties in this Province, the IFP and the ANC.  Thousands of members of these parties lost their lives in the 1980's and early 1990's.  I am also aware of the tireless efforts made by all political parties in KwaZulu-Natal to agree on a code of conduct which will guide their members' activities before, during and after this year's elections.  These steps towards achieving the lasting peace in KwaZulu-Natal need to be supported by all peace-loving people.

The process of peace-making, in order to be sustainable, needs to be an all-inclusive effort.  Peace and reconciliation is a matter for all political parties, the church, business, organised labour, NGO's interest and pressure groups as well as members of civil society.

The process of peace and reconciliation is still important in this Province.  There is a lot of work that has been done by people and leaders who have committed themselves to the spirit of peace.  We should not at all regress.

It is pleasing to see that even those who promote signs of intolerance, their leaders soon take them to task and show them the way.  It would be good to continue this commitment to peace.

I have spoken at length about the need for individual members to do some soul searching regarding their relevance as parliamentarians.  Now I wish to address the Provincial Government as a whole.

It is my view that this session will provide an opportunity for the Government to re-assess its performance.  The question that becomes paramount is: Did the Provincial Government use the resources at its disposal optimally for the benefit of the majority?  My impression is that the Government has made a difference in a number of areas.  There is, however, room for great improvement.  I will now briefly outline some of the activities of the Provincial Government.

THE ECONOMY

The latest reports on the economic activities are that our Province is the fastest growing one in respect of domestic and international investment.  Recent multi-million rand factories owned by Mainland Chinese business people in Newcastle and the proposed construction of a multi-billion rand aluminium smelter in Richards Bay are examples of this growth.  It is interesting to hear about progress in projects related to our ports.  

I would like to plead with investors and members of this House to try and ensure that every effort is made to allow participation of individuals or companies from the historically disadvantaged sector of society.  The Provincial Government has played a facilitative role in this respect.

One of the things that worry me is that my people have nothing.  They live difficult lives because of the conditions under which they live.  We know that the economic situation of the country is not good.  

This ailment that infected our economy, has also infected economics of our neighbouring countries and other countries of the world.  Community development is something we should work hard and fight to ensure that it is a success.

It is time that we should see a change in the lives of people.  The various sectors of government are facing an enormous challenge in creating a difference in peoples lives.  It is important that the communities also demonstrate a commitment to developmental issues.

It is important that government efforts receive community support so that developmental projects are a success.  

TOURISM

The visit to KwaZulu-Natal by the Heads of State, Heads of Government and other political leaders and officials in August last year to attend the Non-Aligned Summit at the International Convention Centre in Durban, and an almost total absence of crime in the city for the duration of the Summit, seems to have heralded an upward turn of tourism in KwaZulu-Natal.

When we talk about tourism, it is important that communities understand the importance of tourism in improving the economy of the country.  It is important for us to know that if tourists are not able to move freely because they fear that they will be raped and shot, they will not be enthusiastic to come here.  I have only one question:  Whatever happened to treating guests with respect in this land of Mthaniya?  Why are guests, who are bringing in money and whose purchases can even benefit us in the area of handicrafts, being shot?  

The fact that the International Convention Centre in Durban, had by the end of January this year, given KwaZulu-Natal a R360 million economic boost bears testimony to the upward spiral of tourism in the Province.  This does not mean that we should now sit back.  There is still a great need to re-examine the way our Province is being marketed, locally and internationally.  I would like to see this Province being the leader in attracting domestic and international tourists.



AGRICULTURE

The estimated contribution of the Provincial agricultural sector to the national agricultural economy is 15%.  This is the case despite the fact that the Province covers only 7.55% of South Africa's land area.

The Xoshindlala (chase away hunger) project, launched last year by our Department of Agriculture will help subsistence farmers to grow into commercial farmers.  As you are aware, farming is very close to my heart.  I am convinced that my people can proceed from poverty to prosperity provided they work hard and employ scientific farming methods.  I urge my Government to give priority towards the development of agriculture, particularly in rural areas.  Our Department of Agriculture should be ready to impact knowledge on those methods.  I, therefore, urge people to tap on the resources of this Department to develop their small plots, including their backyards in town houses.

Now I urge the Government to assist in matters of agriculture.  It is expected that communities will rise in determination and till the soil.  What is said is that there are people who have not ploughed their land or planted gardens, and yet there is such poverty.  The hunger and poverty that so grips this land of South Africa, will end when people realise the importance of working the land.  The economy of this Province will be sustained when we encourage and increase the number of farmers, who are not just subsistence farmers, but rather farmers who produce enough to feed their families, as well as sell some of the produce in the overseas markets.

CRIME

Crime is still the scourge that remains the greatest threat to our freedom.  Criminals continue to stalk us day and night.  To the man in the street the menace is as bad as it has always been.

We are, however, encouraged by reports from political office bearers and safety and security officials that certain categories of crime are on the decline.  All safety and security establishments are applauded for this but there is still a long way to go towards normalising the security situation in the Province.  To this end I invite every member of the KwaZulu-Natal community, to play a role in combatting crime.

The crime I am talking about is not just prevalent in towns and cities, but it is everywhere.  Another type of crime that is now prevalent, particularly in rural areas, is theft.  Somebody will end up stealing what is his own, due to habit.  [LAUGHTER]  No-one is safe from this prevalent crime of theft, particularly in rural areas. I urge communities to join hands with the Government in efforts to put an end to crime and corruption.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOUSING

I am pleased to learn that the housing delivery rate in KwaZulu-Natal is second only to Gauteng.  I have also learned that this area of government activity is being speeded up.

Providing housing to those who cannot afford them should remain one of the top priorities for the Government of this Province.  One of the objectives of providing housing for the poor is to help eliminate informal settlements which spring up in areas not demarcated as residential areas, thereby throwing town planning into chaos.

HIV/AIDS

Despite concerted efforts by the National Cabinet, and our own Ministry of Health and the Monarchy to warn communities about the dire consequences of contracting HIV, AIDS-related deaths are increasing.  Statistics show that over a million people in KwaZulu-Natal alone are HIV positive.  Our youth in particular need to undergo a behavioral change.  Otherwise the Province is on the verge of chaos in many spheres of life.

I again urge the community to work together in this campaign against the spread of HIV/AIDS.  There are too many people upon whose graves we walk, who died of AIDS.  There are also many heartbroken people because they have lost their children and their relatives to this disease.

What is more devastating is that it is said that even the condoms supplied to us have holes in them.  They are no longer safe. It is confusing what all this means. [LAUGHTER]

Why are those people charged with preserving them, handling them carelessly?  That poses a danger to people.

TRANSPORT

Road safety campaigns mounted by our Department of Transport are commendable.  It is regrettable that both drivers and pedestrians have not heeded these campaigns to the desired extent, but we should not lose heart.  As is the case with HIV/AIDS infections which are on the ascendancy, despite almost wall-to-wall campaigns, it takes a long time to change people's behaviour - even if that change will save their own lives.

The process of regulating the taxi industry and helping it to dovetail into other related businesses, which is fully supported and guided by the Provincial Department of Transport, will eventually bear fruit.  This process will turn the taxi industry around by making it far more profitable and violence-free.

SOCIAL WELFARE AND POPULATION DEVELOPMENT

The problems associated with the payments of pensions have been going on for too long.

We are pleased that the Provincial Ministry of Social Welfare and Population Development is giving this matter its full attention.  Corrupt officials are being prosecuted and some have been convicted of stealing the taxpayer's money at the expense of pensioners who have no other income.  In this regard I also want to express my appreciation for the work of the criminal justice system for successfully prosecuting of these thugs.  The problems associated with the payment of pensions, have been going on for so long.

PUBLIC WORKS

The allocation of insufficient funds has made the work of the Department of Public Works difficult.  We hope the position will improve this year to enable Public Works to provide proper and suitable offices and other accommodation.

FINANCE

In the past years the Provincial Government has been under the cloud of overspending.  It had to be bailed out by the National Government under certain conditions.  The burden of implementing those austerity measures rested with the Provincial Department of Finance.  The allocation of insufficient funds has made the Department of Public Works difficult.

I felt very proud when Mr Trevor Manuel, the National Minister of Finance, heaped praise on the KwaZulu-Natal Minister of Finance for exceeding the set targets in controlling the Provinces finances.  For this effort I thank not only the Minister of Finance but also the former Premier, Dr B S Ngubane and his Cabinet, the Director-General, Professor O E H M Nxumalo, heads of departments and managers of different levels of government.

Other favourable reports on fiscal discipline by KwaZulu-Natal indicated that the Departments of Health and of Education, did very well in controlling utilisation of funds allocated to them.  These reports have created a positive image which will certainly create investor confidence in the Province.

TRADITIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS

This Department has played a pivotal role in ensuring that traditional leadership in KwaZulu-Natal will not be consigned to the scrapheap of history.  This Ministry whilst being a custodian of our tradition and values, has to ensure that traditional authority can function in tandem with Western-type democracy.  Indeed, African traditional forms of government and Western-type democracy are not mutually exclusive.

This Department needs to continue to focus on the conservation of our nature, animals and natural resources.  Central to the Department's policies is the establishment of partnerships with local communities and the private sector for the benefit of all.  This approach was conceptualised and implemented for the first time by the erstwhile KwaZulu Bureau of Natural Resources under the leadership of the Prince of KwaPhindangene.  It is now clear to everyone that this is the only viable approach to nature conservation.

When I addressed this House on 28 March 1996, I commented on the drafting of the Provincial Constitution which had then been finalised.  I pointed out, however, that there were still outstanding sections of the Constitution, particularly those relating to the role and status of the Monarchy.  I urged this House and the Constitution Committee to ensure that those outstanding sections be addressed with utmost care and diligence.

It is common knowledge that the question of our Provincial Constitution has to date not been finalised.  It is regrettable that members of this House have failed to discharge its obligation in this regard.  The KwaZulu Monarchy should be given sufficient capacity to meet its challenges as well as address the needs of the people that knock at its door.

When I talk of traditional leaders, Mr Speaker, I see it fit that I thank those amaKhosi who continue to commit themselves to honest leadership and to cater for the needs of the communities they lead.  I wish that amaKhosi may have a great contribution in encouraging development that will put an end to the poverty facing their people.

It must be understood that what amaKhosi have done by collecting money for the commemoration of Isandhlwana, is commendable.  It demonstrates their leadership.  Therefore, they should be given their rightful status under this Government.

EDUCATION

Education is one of the most important investments a nation can make.  Thus the money spent on education should not be regarded though it is spent on social services.  Education should and must not be regarded in the same light as Health Services and Social Welfare.  Eduction stands alone as an investment of enormous proportions - in our case, an investment in the well-being of the South African nation.  I, therefore, go along with those leaders who place a high premium on our education.

It will always be a bad patch in our education history that matric results for 1998 dropped by 4 percentage points on the 1997 results.  I wish to call on all educators, learners and parents to make concerted efforts in ensuring that the KwaZulu-Natal 1999 matric results are not lower than 60%.

There is a short time before we reach the millennium which will be characterised by many challenges.  As we move into the new millennium, I do believe that there is an urgent need for all of us to redefine our approach to education and rediscover the positive values in each of our cultures.  If our country desires to make its mark in the global competitive economy, we will have to invest heavily in education and this exercise of rediscovering cultural values.  Time is unfortunately not on our side.

Mr Speaker, for some time now, the deliberations of this House have taken place in the atmosphere of peace, reconciliation and consensus.  I strongly believe in these principles.  The politics of conflict and tensions are not suitable for KwaZulu-Natal.  It is my fervent hope that this spirit of co-operation will continue into the next Provincial Government and beyond.

On that note, Mr Speaker, it is my pleasure to declare this sixth session of this Assembly open.

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon Premier to give a vote of thanks to His Majesty the King.

UNDUNANKULU:  Mhlonishwa Somlomo; Hlanga lwaMakhosi; Mntwana waKwa-Phindangene Dkt M G Buthelezi, uNgqongqoshe weZindaba zaseKhaya, uSihlalo weNdlu yabaHoli beNdabuko kuHulumeni weSifundazwe, uNdunankulu kaZulu; Bantwana baseNdlunkulu neNdlunkulu yonke ekhona; Amakhosi neZinduna; Amalunga ePhalamende; Amalungu ePhalamende leSifundazwe akhona phakathi kwethu namuhla; Amalunga eSigungu saKwaZulu-Natali; amaLungu kaHulumeni woBumbano; amaNxusa amele oHulumeni baMazwe; izikhulu ezivela kwezinye iziFundazwe, iziphathimandla zabanye oHulumeni kanye neziNhlangano; izimenywa eziqavile kanye nomphakathi wonke.

Ngithanda ukuba ngiphakamise ukubakhona lapha namuhla kwalowo owayengaphambi kwami uDkt B S Ngubane kanye nonkosikazi wakhe.  Futhi ngithanda ukuphakamisa ukubakhona kweNkosi uMzimela, oyiPhini likaSihlalo weNdlu yabaHoli beNdabuko kuZwelonke.  Ukubakhona kweNkosi uMzimela lapha kuyinkomba yokubaluleka kwalomcimbi. 

Ngizizwa ngihloniphekile ukuba ngedlulise ukuthokoza kwaleNdlu ngeNkulumo, Hlanga loMhlabathi, yokuvula ngokusemthethweni ukuhlangana kwesithupha kwesiShayamthetho sokuqala saKwaZulu-Natali.  Lokhu kuzakuba ngukuhlala kokugcina ngaphambi kokuba isizwe siye okhethweni.

Silo Samabandla, siwazwile amazwi abalulekile owathule kuleNdlu namuhla.  Ngikhulumela uHulumeni walapha KwaZulu-Natali, mangethembise, Hlanga Lomhlabathi, ukuthi inkulumo yeSilo, ayiwelanga emadlebeni angezwa.  Ngokukhulu ukuzithoba Silo Samabandla, ngibophezela uHulumeni wesiFundazwe saKwaZulu-Natali ekugcineni ukuthula kanye nokubuyisana kulesisiFundazwe.  I-Silo Samabandla siphawule ngokubuyisana kabusha phakathi kwe-IFP kanye ne-ANC.  Hlanga Lwamakhosi, ngithanda ukusho, ukuze kuqoshwe phansi, ukuthi asikafinyeleli lapho okwamanje.  Inqubo eyophetha ngokudaleka kokubuyisa ikhungethwe yizingqinamba zodlame lwezombusazwe kanye nokubulawa kwabantu ngezinjongo zezombusazwe.  Futhi kwakhiwa amacebo okuba kubulawe amaLungu kanye nabaHoli be-IFP.

Sithintekile Silo Samabandla mayelana nokungeniswa kanye nokushushumbiswa kwezikhali ezindaweni zaseBulwer, eMpendle kanye nase-Richmond.  Iqhaza lezinkampani ezizimele zokuvikela likhungethe lenqubo.  Kulesisikhathi lapho sekuzoyiwa okhethweni, sinethemba lokuthi izinkampani ezizimele zabavikeli zizozimbandakanya nenhlanganisela yemithetho evumelekile emiphakathini yombuso wentando yeningi.  Sinethemba lokuthi izinkampani ezizimele zabavikeli ngeke zibe neqhaza ezenzweni ezizothikameza inqubo yokhetho.  Futhi sikusho ukuze kuqoshwe phansi ukuthi uHulumeni uzoqikelela ukuthi izinkampani ezizimele zokuvikela azinalo nelincane iqhaza eziyolibamba ezihlelweni zokulungiselela ukhetho.  

Sithanda ukuqwashisa lezizinhlangano ezizimele zokuvikela ukuba ziziqhelelanise nokubhebhethekisa umlilo wodlame lwamatekisi njengoba kubonakala ukumbandakanyeka kwazo odlameni lwamatekisi lana abizwa ngokuthi iNhlangano yamaTekisi aHamba iNdawo Ende, okuthiwa phecelezi i-Long Distance Taxi Association.  

Hlanga Lomhlabathi, Silo Samabandla, sekuphawuliwe mayelana nomsebenzi ongakafezwa, owavela esivumelwaneni soxolo kanye nokubuyisana esasayindwa kuma-Union Buildings ngomhlaka 19 April ku-1994.  Kuyadabukisa ukusho ukuthi lesosivumelwano esihloniphekile asikaze sihlonishwe.  Ngakho-ke isixazululo samazwe omhlaba, okuthiwa phecelezi yi-International Mediation, sacwila.  Kungenxa yokuthi izindaba zoMthethosisekelo azizange zixazululwe ngokusebenzisa isixazululo samazwe omhlaba, yingakho sisenejoka lodaba oluphakanyiswe yiSilo Samabandla, okuwudaba oluthinta iqhaza kanye nesikhundla seSilo.

Makuqoshwe phansi wukuthi izichibiyelo zoMthethosisekelo eziqhutshwa yi-IFP ePhalamende likaZwelonke zihlose ukususa ijoka kanye nokuvala izikhala ezasala ngenxa yokungahlonishwa kwesivumelwano sango-April ku-1994.  

Baba Somlomo ngivumele ukuba ngiphawule ngezehlo ezenzekile kuleminyaka emihlanu eyedlule.  Leminyaka esiyibukezayo inikeze isiFundazwe izingqinamba kanye nezinselelo ezijulile.  Uguquko kube yinto enzima.  Sihlangabezane nokungqubuzana, ukushuba kwemimoya, ukungasebenzi ngendlela enempumelelo kanye nongabibikho kokubambisana.  Nokho sikwazile ukuzinqoba ezinye zalezizingqinamba.  Njengamanje sesizinikela esigabeni sokushaya imithetho esinempulelo esizobonakala ngezenzo eziqatha, ukubambisana nokucabanga ngendlela eyakhayo.  

Kufanele sibabuyisele eceleni labo abangazimisele ngokubambisana nathi ngombono ngekusasa lethu, wokwenza isiFundazwe saKwaZulu-Natali sibe yisiFundazwe esiqhubekela phambili futhi esinempumelelo.  Kufanele futhi sisebenzise amandla akhayo abobonke abantu boxolo nobuhle besiFundazwe sakithi.  Kufanele sithumele umyalezo ozwakalayo kanye nocacileyo wokuthi labo abazigaxa ematulweni okuvimba lokhu ngeke babekezelelwe.  Sizinikela ekusebenzeni kanzima kanye nasemazingeni aphakemeyo okukhiqiza. 

Eminyakeni emihlangu eyedlule kwakhiwa ubudlelwane obuhle phakathi kukaHulumeni wesiFundazwe sethu kanye nabamabhizinisi.  Sizinikela ekubambisaneni obuqatha nabamabhizinisi.  U-Hulumeni wami uzothuthukisa usikompilo lokukhiqiza.  Siyosekela ubuqotho futhi siqinise izibopho zomuntu ngamunye kanye nabantu bonke ngokuhlanganyela phakathi kwezakhiwo zikaHulumeni.  Sibeka intengo ephezulu ekuvuselelweni kokuziphatha okufaneleyo.  Sizokugcizelela kakhulu ukuhlonishwa koMthetho. 

Kufanele siwubeke emahlombe ethu umthwalo wokuguqula imiphakathi yethu.  Injongo yethu wukuthi imiphakathi kufanele kube yiyona eyizinhlaka eziyisisekelo sokwakha umphakathi wethu kanye noHulumeni wethu.  Kufanele senze ukuba lesisiFundazwe sibuseke.  Kufanele sinikeze imiphakathi yethu amandla futhi siyinike nesibopho sokwethula imiphumela.  Imiphakathi kufanele igxile ekuzithuthukiseni kanye nasekuthuthukiseni ukukhula komnotho.  

Ukubakhona kweSilo Samabandla kuleNdlu namuhla kungifunzelela ukuba ngibophezele uHulumeni wami ukuba axazulule udaba olusemqoka osekuphele isikhathi eside kakhulu lwasilela. Kufanele simise uMthetho ozoqikelela wukuthi isiFundazwe sethu semukela futhi siphatha ngendlela efanele uhlaka lobuKhosi neNdlunkulu.  
UbuKhosi neNdlunkulu kulesisiFundazwe yilonaxhama elisibopha ndawonye futhi lisinike uqobo lwethu njengeSizwe esisodwa.  Siyaziqhenya ngohlaka lobuKhosi neNdlunkulu, futhi sizokukhuthalela ukuluvikela kanye nokululondoloza.  Ukuhlonipheka kwesakhiwo sobuKhosi neNdlunkulu kufanele kuhlale njalo kungangcoliswa yimibango kanye nezombusazwe okwehlisa isithunzi sakho.  Kufanele sisigcine isithunzi kanye neqhaza leSilo Samabandla sokuba ngumbumbi weSizwe.

Amalungu aleNdlu kufanele aqikelele wukuthi uMthetho othinta ubuKhosi neNdlunkulu ungumphumela osekeleke ekuvumelaneni okubanzi.  Sifisa ukuba ubuKhosi neNdlunkulu kwemukelwe njengeNhloko yesakhiwo sobuKhosi besiFundazwe sakithi ngaphansi koMthethosisekelo.  

Lokhu kwethwesa umthwalo zonke izakhamuzi zaKwaZulu-Natali.  Siyethemba ukuthi lokhukuhlala kwePhalamende lesiFundazwe sethu kuyogqama ngokuba kube yilokho okunokuzibophezela okusha, ukuhlonipha ePhalamende kanye nokulunga.  I-Phalamende laKwaZulu-Natali kuze kube yimanje lihlaselwe ukwentuleka kokuzithiba kanye nokwenziwa kwezinto ezingemukeleki ezenziwa amanye amalungu alo.

Ngiyethemba ukuthi sizozinikela ekuguquleni ukukhombana ngeminwe sikwenze izingxoxo zombusazwe ezilawulwa ngaqiniso kunokuba zilawulwe yimfundisoze.  Masizimbandakanye ezingxoxweni eziphilayo kuloMkhandlu.  Masikhombise ukuthi ngempela siyakwazi ukubekezelelana nokubekezelela intando yeningi, nokuthi sikwazi ukuba siphikisane ngaphandle kokuba senyanyane.

Ukuphendula ezinye zezinto eziyinzwabethi nezingewona amaqiniso ezisakazwa ngabezinhlelo zokusakaza namaphephandaba, ngifisa ukucacisa ukuthi ukuzinikela kanye nohlobo lukaHulumeni olawulwa yimi uyoba yilowo oletha uNdunankulu yinoma yikuphi lapho isidingo salokho sikhona.  Ngizimisele ukubakhona eThekwini, oNdini, eShowe, oBonjeni, eMgungundlovu, e-Richmond, Kwa-Mashu nanoma yikuphi lapho uNdunankulu kufanele abekhona.

Iqiniso lokuthi isizinda sehhovisi lami sizoba soNdini, akufanele kubukeke njengokuthi mina sengithathe isinqumo maqondana nodaba lwenhlokodolobha yesiFundazwe.  Inhlokodolobha yesiFundazwe kufanele inqunywe yisiFundazwe uqobo.  Futhi kufanele wukuba kube yisinqumo esiyinkomba yezidingo kanye nezifiso zeningi labantu bakithi.  Esikhathini esiyiminyaka emihlanu eyedlule iPhalamende lase-Cape Town lemukela amakhulu eMithethosivivinywa ngale kokubheka ukwehlukana kwamaqembu ezombusazwe.  Wonke amaqembu ezombusazwe amelweyo ePhalamende azinikela emgqingqweni owemukelekayo wokusebenza nokugwema izenzo ezikhombisa ukubukela phansi ukusebenza ngempumelelo kanye nemiphumela yenqubo yokushaya imithetho.  Kufanele sikhombise ukuthi leliPhalamende lingakwazi ukulandela isibonele esenziwa yePhalamende lase-Cape Town.  Ngempela singakwazi ukubeka imigomo ephezulu yezinga lokusebenza.  Makuqale ugqozi olusha lokuziqhenya kuleliPhalamende.  Lolugqozi lwedlulele kusosonke isiFundazwe. Masikhombise ukuthi kunabantu abaqotho abangabaholi kuleliPhalamende, nabaziyo ukuthi kufanele bahole kanjani bekhombisa ngezenzo.

IsiFundazwe saKwaZulu-Natali sizinikele ezinjongweni ezinobulungiswa nobuntu.  Ngempela amalungu ePhalamende lethu azozihlonipha izibopho zawo futhi azothuthukisa nesithombe esihle sesiFundazwe sethu.  Ngiyabonga. [KUSHAYWA IZANDLA].
      
THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, Your Majesty, His Excellency Dr M G Buthelezi, Prince of KwaPhindangene, Minister of Home Affairs, Chairman of the House of Traditional Leaders in this Province, and Traditional Prime Minister to the Zulu nation, members of the Royal Family present, amaKhosi neziNduna, members of Parliament, members of Provincial Parliaments who are here with us today, members of the KwaZulu-Natal Cabinet, members of the Government of National Unity, members of the Diplomatic Corps and Consular Corps, dignitaries from other provinces, officers of other governments and institutions, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen.

I would like to acknowledge the presence here today of my predecessor, Dr B S Ngubane and his wife.  I would also like to acknowledge the Deputy Chairman of the National House of Traditional Leaders, Inkosi Mzimela.  His presence here also marks the importance of this occasion.

It is an honour for me to express the appreciation of this House to His Majesty for performing the official opening of the sixth session of the first KwaZulu-Natal Legislature.  This will be the last sitting of the KwaZulu-Natal Parliament before the nation goes to the polls.

Your Majesty, we take note of the important remarks that you made today in this House.  May I, on behalf of the Government of KwaZulu-Natal assure you that His Majesty's message has not fallen on deaf ears.  We commit our Government to the maintenance of peace and reconciliation in this Province.  His Majesty made reference to the rapprochement between the ANC and the IFP.  Your Majesty, I would like to state for the record that we are not there yet.  The process which will culminate in this rapprochement is bedeviled by political violence and killing of people for political purposes.  Plots, which are being hatched to assassinate IFP members and leaders.

We are concerned, Your Majesty, about the gun-running in the Bulwer, Impendle and Richmond areas.  The role of private security companies bedevils the process.  In the running up to the elections we hope that private security companies will observe a code which is acceptable in democratic societies.  We hope that private security companies will not be involved in activities which will disrupt the electoral process.  We state for the record that this Government will ensure that private security companies do not have any role whatsoever to play in arrangements around the elections.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We would like to warn private security companies to desist from fanning the fires of taxi violence, as exemplified in their involvement in the Durban Long Distance Taxi Association.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  Reference has been made to the unfinished business which arose out of an agreement for peace and reconciliation, which was signed at the Union Buildings on 19 of April 1994.  It is sad to state that that honourable agreement was never honoured.  Hence international mediation was scuttled.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order!

THE PREMIER:  It is precisely because constitutional issues were not resolved through international mediation that we are still saddled with the matter which was raised by His Majesty, namely issues around the role and status of His Majesty.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  May it be recorded that the constitutional amendments which have been piloted by the IFP in the National Parliament, aim at bringing relief and filling those gaps which remained when there was dishonour of the April 1994 Agreement.

Mr Speaker, let us take stock of developments during the past five years.  The period under review presented our Province with immense problems and challenges.  The transition was difficult.  We experienced conflicts, tensions, inefficiency and lack of co-operation, but we have overcome some of these difficulties.  We now commit ourselves to a productive legislative phase which is characterised by resolute actions, co-operation and positive thinking.

We must isolate those who are not willing to co-operate in our shared vision of making KwaZulu-Natal a successful and prosperous Province.  We should harness the positive energy of all people of goodwill of our Province.  We should send out a loud and clear message that those who engage in obstructionist tactics will not be tolerated.  We commit ourselves to hard work and high levels of performance.

In the past five years, cordial relations were forged between our Provincial Government and business.  We commit ourselves to a strong partnership with business.  My Government will promote a culture of productivity.

We shall uphold discipline and strengthen individual and collective responsibility within the public sector.  We place a high premium on moral renewal.  We shall uphold the rule of Law.

We should take responsibility for the transformation of our communities.  Our goal is that communities become primary building blocks of our society and government.  We must make this Province governable.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We should empower our communities and charge them with the responsibility of delivering results.  Communities should focus on their social upliftment and the promotion of economic growth.

The presence of His Majesty in this House today, prompts me to commit my Government to resolving an important matter, which has been outstanding for too long.  We must adopt legislation to ensure that our Province properly recognises and regulates the institution of the Monarchy.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We owe our provincial identity and social stability to the institution of the Monarchy.  We are proud of the institution of the Monarchy, and we shall strive for its protection and preservation.  The prestigious institution of the Monarchy should remain untainted by demeaning controversies and politics.  We must maintain the dignity and unifying role of His Majesty.

Members of this House should ensure that legislation affecting the Monarchy is the product of broad-based consensus.  We wish the Monarchy to be acknowledged as the constitutional head of our Provincial Government.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  This imposes an obligation on all citizens of KwaZulu-Natal.  We hope that this session of our Provincial Parliament will be distinguished by a new sense of responsibility, parliamentary decorum and propriety.  The Parliament of KwaZulu-Natal has so far suffered from a lack of internal discipline, and from the excesses that some of its members indulge in.  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE PREMIER:  I hope that we shall commit ourselves to transform accusations into political debates, informed by facts rather than propaganda.  Let us engage in vibrant debates in this Chamber.  Let us demonstrate that we can be truly democratic and that we can disagree without being disagreeable.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  In response to some erroneous speculation which appeared in the Press, I wish to clarify that the commitment and the style of my Government shall be one which brings the Premier wherever the need is called for.  I intend to be present in Durban, in Ulundi, in Eshowe, in Ubombo, Pietermaritzburg, Richmond, KwaMashu and wherever else the Premier must be.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND APPLAUSE.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order, please!  Let us give the Premier a hearing, please.

THE PREMIER:  The fact that I hold my primary office in Ulundi should not be construed as my having made any decision in respect of the issue of the capital of our Province.  The capital of our Province must be decided by the Province itself, and must be a decision which reflects the needs and wishes of the majority of our people.

During the past five years Parliament in Cape Town has adopted hundreds of Bills, irrespective of political party differences.  All political parties represented in Parliament committed themselves to an acceptable work tempo, and the avoidance of actions which undermine the efficiency and productivity of the legislative process.  We must demonstrate that this Parliament can live up to the example set by Parliament in Cape Town.  Indeed, we can set a higher standard of performance.  Let a new sense of pride start from this Parliament and spread throughout the Province.  Let us show that there is strong responsible leadership in this Parliament which knows how to lead by example.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE PREMIER:  KwaZulu-Natal is committed to noble objectives.  Indeed, our parliamentarians will honour their responsibilities and boost the image of our Province. 

THE SPEAKER:  Order, Mr Makhaye.

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the Sergeant at Arms to escort His Majesty the King out of the Chamber.

HON MEMBERS PRESENT GIVE HIS MAJESTY, THE KING, THE ROYAL GREETING.

HIS MAJESTY, THE KING LEAVES THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER

THE SPEAKER:  Please be seated. 

14.	ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER

THE SPEAKER:  I have no announcements to make.  Yes, Mr Rajbansi?

MR A RAJBANSI:  I crave your indulgence, there might be an omission on your part.  We note the return of the Prince of Peace of Lindelane, the hon Mr Thomas Shabalala.  He is a great friend of the Indian community and he respects Lord Haroman and I have got good company.  [LAUGHTER]

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Order!  Let us move on.



15.	ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SECRETARY

THE SECRETARY:  Umphakathi osivakashele uyacelwa ukuthi uma usuka lapha ushone ngaseNingizimu lapho uzothola khona ukudla okuya ethunjini.  Abantwana baseNdlunkulu, namaKhosi, namaKhansela akhona bayacelwa ukuba baye eholo elise-B South lapho bezothola khona ukudla.  Ngiyabonga.  Our guests, I believe are all aware where they are supposed to go after the House adjourns.  Thank you.

TRANSLATION:  Members of the public visiting us, are requested that from here they go south where they will get refreshments.  Members of the Royal House, AmaKhosi and counsellors present are requested to go to the hall at B South where they will get refreshments.  Thank you.  T/E

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, Mr Secretary.

16.	ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE PREMIER

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, I have no announcements to make.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  We have come to the end of today's programme. The House stands adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10:00.

	HOUSE ADJOURNED AT 13:25 UNTIL
	10:00 ON WEDNESDAY, 24 FEBRUARY 1999


	DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF
	KWAZULU-NATAL PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURE

	SIXTH SESSION
	SECOND SITTING - SECOND SITTING DAY
	WEDNESDAY, 24 FEBRUARY 1999

THE HOUSE MET AT 10:10 IN THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER, ULUNDI.  THE SPEAKER TOOK THE CHAIR AND READ THE PRAYER.

THE SPEAKER:  The House resumes.

2.	OBITUARIES AND OTHER CEREMONIAL MATTERS

3.	ADMINISTRATION OF OATHS OR AFFIRMATION

4.	ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER

THE SPEAKER:  I have no announcements to make.

5.	ANNOUNCEMENTS AND/OR REPORTS BY THE PREMIER.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Minister Mtetwa.

THE PREMIER:  No announcements, Mr Speaker.

6.	NOTICES OF BILLS OR MOTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Mrs Galea?

MRS C E GALEA:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I give notice that I will move at the next sitting day:

	That this House noting that:

	1.	research has been done on mother to child prevention of AIDS;

	2.	40% of patients have AIDS;

	3.	if women were given Anti-Retro Virol Drugs, it would reduce the transmission from mother to baby by 37% to 50%;

	4.	37 to 50 in a 100 babies would thus not be infected; and

	5.	the cost of the drug is estimated to be R400 per woman, as it would only be needed for one week.

	Therefore calls upon this House to support this initiative to save the lives of babies and also much funding, nursing and anguish in their later years.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Roger Burrows?

MR R M BURROWS:  I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day:

	1.	that this House, noting a report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and in particular, the chapters pertaining to Natal and KwaZulu, calls on the Speaker to allocate sufficient time during the March sitting of the KwaZulu-Natal Parliament to debate the report and its implications;  and

	2.	further rejects totally any consideration of a special "blanket" amnesty for the Province for "political" crimes committed by individuals between 1984 and the present as well as any possible extension of the date fixed for the end of the amnesty application period.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Haygarth?

MR G HAYGARTH:  Mr Speaker, I give notice that I will move the following motion on the next sitting day:

	that this House views with concern the interference by the Premier in the sovereignty of this House and accordingly resolves:

	(a)	that the Premier be advised that the sovereignty of this House is paramount and should be respected on all occasions;  and

	(b)	that the Chief Whip and Leader of the House be requested to ensure that this Rule is implemented on all occasions.  I thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Tarr?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I will move on the next sitting day of this House as follows:

	That this House noting:

	that Members of the S A P S, assigned as Ministers Aids, are not paid overtime allowances;  and

	is concerned that these persons put in long hours of dedicated work even if necessary, risking their lives to protect our Ministers;

	Therefore resolves to request the KwaZulu-Natal Minister of Safety and Security to approach the National Minister Mr S Mufamadi to rectify this matter.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Nel?

MR W U NEL:  Mr Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day:

	Noting:

	1.	the outrageous and mutinous behaviour of members of the Department of Correctional Services under the banner of Popcru, who have physically abused and evicted the newly appointed Provincial Commissioner on at least three occasions;

	2.	the chaotic conditions which have prevailed in prisons around this Province for some time now;

	3.	the severe impact that such a situation has on the security situation in KwaZulu-Natal through escapes, abuse of inmates and the obstruction of justice;

	Resolves:

	to call upon the Premier and the Minister of Safety and Security to engage with the President and the National Minister of Correctional Services in an urgent effort to resolve the situation.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motion?  Yes, hon member Mr Naicker?

MR S V NAICKER:  I shall move on the next sitting day:

	that this House calls upon the Minister of Housing to take note of the approval of the Rural Housing Subsidy Policy which takes effect from the 1st of April 1999, and the guidelines to be expedited to the Provincial Department prior to the announcement by the National Minister of Housing.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Any other motion?  Hon member Mr Gcabashe?

MR S GCABASHE:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I would like to move on the next sitting day of this House:

	1.	noting the outstanding opening address of His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini, which covered the major problems and prospects facing KwaZulu-Natal;

	2.	further noting the unfortunate remarks of the Premier which did not focus on the thanking the King for his broad-ranging speech, but instead presented the views of one political party; and 

	3.	this House resolves to thank His Majesty for his perceptive observations and constructive comments on areas of work the Legislature and the Executive should focus on.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order, please!  Order!  Any other motion?  The hon Mr Rajbansi?

MR A RAJBANSI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I hereby give notice that I shall move tomorrow as follows:

	that this hon House notes that attitude surveys that have been published since 1994 and recently have not matched up with real voter decisions.  Examples:

	1.	in 1994 surveys indicated that the IFP would not get more than 10% of the provincial vote and the voters gave the IFP 51% of the vote;

	2.	in 1996 surveys did not mention the Minority Front in the Durban Metro area and the real result was that the MF scored better than the DP in the Durban Metro area and on 18/2/99 in the Verulam By-election the voters support was as follows:

		ANC  524 - 33,6%.  
		MF   522 - 33,48%.  
		NP   260 - 16,67%.  
		IFP  253 - 16,22%.  
		and 84% of the majority Indians voters voted for black political parties; and

		therefore resolves to request all those who are conducting attitude surveys to ensure that local surveys are conducted in a fair manner.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motion?  Hon member Mrs Downs?

MRS J M DOWNS:  I shall move on the next sitting day:

	that this House noting:

	1.	the priorities of the policing relating to rape and child abuse;

	2.	the problems with District Surgeons, uncovered in a sub-committee of this House;

	3.	the important role that District Surgeons play in the convictions or lack of convictions; and

	resolves to request the Minister of Health to re-examine his Department's priorities where they relate to District Surgeons and to ensure that the role and importance of District Surgeons are prioritised in this Province.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motion?

MR A RAJBANSI:  Yes, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  In terms of the Rules, as I understand them,  members are only allowed to put one motion.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Agreed.  I have one notice of motion and one motion without notice, and that complies with the Rules.

THE SPEAKER:  That is a motion.  [LAUGHTER]

MR A RAJBANSI:  I am entitled to move it.

THE SPEAKER:  I will ask the hon member to take his seat, please.  Hon member Mr Waugh?

MR A RAJBANSI:  Mr Speaker, I crave your indulgence.  I have stated that I am not giving a notice, I am moving a motion, and I am entitled to do so in terms of the Rules.

THE SPEAKER:  In terms of the Rules the member has only one chance to put a motion.  I think that you have utilised that chance.  Mr Waugh?

MR J C N WAUGH:  Mr Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move:

	that this House discuss the decline in service delivery to the people of KwaZulu-Natal from the previous government to the existing government, especially in the Agricultural field.  That further to the above, when services are terminated it be brought to the attention of the House of Traditional Leaders so that the necessary consultation with the people on the ground could take place.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motion?

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, on a point of order.  As the hon Whip of the minority parties, may I draw to your attention, in terms of the motions being moved, Mr Rajbansi has moved a motion under Rule 102.  He now wishes to move a motion without notice in terms of Rule 104, which is different.  Whether that motion is accepted or not is dependent on it having the unanimous support of the House, but I do believe, with respect, that he has the right to move that motion without notice.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Can we not complete those who want to give notice of motions firstly.  In the interim we will look at Rule 104.  Thank you, no other motion.  If one looks at Rule 104, it reads thus:


	Every motion requires notice, except a motion:

	a.	by way of amendment to a draft resolution permitted in terms of these Rules;

	b.	raising a point of order or a question of privilege;

	c.	for the postponement or discharge of, or giving precedence to, and order of the day;

	d.	referring a bill to a committee ..."

I do not know, hon member Mr Rajbansi and hon member Mr Burrows whether the request by the hon member Mr Rajbansi is also accommodated in terms of this Rule.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, if you have a look at point 104 (g),

	Every motion requires notice, except a motion -

	g.	in regard to which notice is dispensed with by the unanimous concurrence of all the Members present.

With respect, the situation that has existed in the past, and it has existed in terms of motions that have been brought before this House by a number of parties, the motion is read, and if it does get the unanimous consent of the House, is approved by the House, but until the House knows what the motion is, it cannot give its consent.  I would respectfully suggest that 104 (g) does allow Mr Rajbansi, or any member, the right at least to put the motion before the House.

THE SPEAKER:  Is that the case, hon member Mr Rajbansi, are you raising your motion in terms of Rule 104 (g)?

MR A RAJBANSI:  Yes, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Any direction, hon member Chief Whip?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I am afraid I must differ from my hon friend, Mr Burrows, there.  It is true what he says that in the past, a party has moved a motion under this particular Rule, and then the other parties, so to speak, on the run, have considered and said yes, we will actually agree to that.  But in reality, Mr Speaker, that is not the correct procedure and it is not the procedure which is followed at the National Assembly in Cape Town either.  The correct procedure, Mr Speaker, is if a member wishes to move a motion under that particular Rule, he should first of all consult with the other parties, prior to the commencement of the sitting.  It does not say that, but that is the correct procedure.  The reality is then that that hon member is moving two motions.  That is the reality.  Whether it is a motion without notice, or a motion with notice, he is moving two motions.  I am simply saying that the application of Rule 104 (g) actually requires prior consultation amongst the parties.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Edwards?

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  The convention that we have had is if somebody wishes to move a motion without notice, they first give it to all the parties to see if maybe it is a congratulatory message or something, and we agreed to it.  If it was that, we were prepared to accept it, but now knowing what it is I believe the hon Mr Tarr is quite correct.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Meer?

MR I C MEER:  Mr Speaker, you in this House, are the keeper of our Rules.  Also, very important, the precedence of this House is in your hands and in terms of precedence, Mr Rajbansi should be allowed, because it has been allowed in the past, unless there is a new ruling that in future it will not be allowed, then due notice should be given to members.  But in view of what has happened in the past, the precedence also binds you, sir.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other comments.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

MR A RAJBANSI:  The hon Chief Whip, there were occasions where he gave motions without notice and appealed for us to consider it and mine is a simple, non-controversial - if you allow me to just propose it - it is about five sentences, non-controversial.

THE SPEAKER:  If I understand you, hon member Mr Rajbansi, you are saying that what has been said by the Chief Whip is correct, that you need to have consulted the representatives of the other parties before you put your motion in terms of Rule 104?

MR A RAJBANSI:  Mr Speaker, that may be the convention, but the hon Chief Whip also did the same thing in the past, so you have precedence.

THE SPEAKER:  What I am saying, hon member, is that do you agree to that, that the correct procedure is that you should have consulted the representatives of the other parties?

MR A RAJBANSI:  I do not agree with that.  We have conventions here and we must follow the KwaZulu convention, not the London convention.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mrs Cronje?

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, it is true that often when we, as parties, want to table a motion without notice, that we do consult with the other parties.  My understanding has always been that we want to test, as it were, the acceptability of the motion, not that we have to do it.  It is simply a test so that one can say, right, it is supported, let us go with it.  In this case, that test has not been made, but I do not think that matters.  I am of the honest opinion that Mr Rajbansi is quite entitled to move a motion without notice and then he is actually asking to test it on the floor.  From the ANC's side, if we agree with his motion, we will say so, if we do not, we will say so as well.  So we have no problem with it.

THE SPEAKER:  If one looks at Rule 104, it says that there must be unanimous concurrence of all the members present.  If one interprets that, it is quite clear that we need the agreement of all the members.  In other words, it means that we are forced to allow the hon member to put his motion and then we will see whether we all agree to that in terms of Rule 104 (g).  Therefore, I will allow the hon Member to put his motion.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR A RAJBANSI:  Yes.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

	In the light of the fact that the hon Dr M G Buthelezi is regarded as one of the elder statesmen in our country, by serving as the Acting State President of this country on numerous occasions, and our highly respected Chairperson of the House of Traditional Leaders of this Province;

	This House is concerned with any acts to smear or tarnish his good name;

	And thereupon calls upon any political party to expel any member who leaks any document to any media, smearing the good name of Dr Buthelezi.

HON MEMBERS:  LAUGHTER AND INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Roger Burrows?

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, the Democratic Party is opposed to the motion.  [LAUGHTER]

THE SPEAKER:  The ANC?

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, the ANC will abstain.  Thank you.  [LAUGHTER]

THE SPEAKER:  The IFP?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, clearly there is not unanimous agreement amongst the parties.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order, please!  Order!  Hon Chief Whip?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  I am wondering if Mr Rajbansi wants to be on the IFP list.

THE SPEAKER:  National Party?

MR V A VOLKER:  Mr Speaker, on a point of order, one party has already indicated opposition, so it is not on, and there is no further point in dealing with this.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Order!  Order, please!  Before we move on to Item No 7 on the Order Paper, I would like to announce that we might have, in this House, the presence of His Majesty the King.  I have been told that he might attend the sitting today.  Therefore, when His Majesty the King enters the House, I would like members to show their respect as required.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:

7.	TABLING OF REPORTS OR PAPERS

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Aulsebrook?

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I table the report from the Premier's Portfolio Committee on the KwaZulu-Natal Commissions Bill as amended.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Reports or papers.  Thank you.  Then we move on to Item No 8 on the Order Paper.

8.	ORDERS OF THE DAY

8.1	QUESTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Question No 161.  I do not know whether any Minister could assist me, since the Premier is not present.

REV C J MTETWA: (Minister of Public Works):  Through you, Mr Speaker, I would request that these questions to the Premier be postponed to a later stage when the Premier is present.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, agreed.  I do not think that we need to discuss that.  Since the Premier is not in and we have had an explanation from the Minister.  Yes, hon member Mr Nel?

MR W U NEL:  On a point of order, Mr Speaker.  My understanding is that the Premier will not be available today.  This question, as is another one that I have posed, has been on the Order Paper for some time now.  Our Parliamentary Rules provide specific time frames and procedures for answers to questions and this amounts to a contempt of the process of this Parliament and it is part of a trend of behaviour and conduct, which I believe undermines the stature of this institution, and if this is how we are going to treat Parliament, then I suggest we may as well scrap it.

THE SPEAKER:  Could I ask a question, hon member?  How do you know, how did you come to understand that the Premier will not be in today?

MR W U NEL:  Mr Speaker, if he is going to be in today, then I would expect you to inform this House when and how you will deal with these questions.

THE SPEAKER:  In fact, I have made a ruling that we will postpone the answering of these questions until the Premier is in.

REV C J MTETWA: (Minister of Public Works):  A point of order Mr Speaker.  My understanding is that the Premier will be here during the course of the day.  I do not know where the hon member gets his information from.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Let us move on.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Burrows?

MR R M BURROWS:  Do I understand from the explanation that you have given to my colleague that at the point when the Premier arrives, at an appropriate point today, you will call on the Premier to answer these questions?

THE SPEAKER:  That is right.

MR R M BURROWS:  Thank you.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN A LATER VOLUME.

THE SPEAKER:  Let us move on to item 8.2., the presentation of the 1999/2000 Budget.  The hon Minister of Finance.

8.2  PRESENTATION OF 1999/2000 BUDGET

KWAZULU-NATAL APPROPRIATION BILL, 1999/2000.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):

I	INTRODUCTION

Mr Speaker, hon members, this is a very special occasion for me as your Minister and MEC for Finance, as it is the first occasion that I am privileged to be able to deliver a budget policy speech in this hon Chamber.  It is my pleasure to stand before this hon House today and present to you the Budget of the Government of the Province of KwaZulu-Natal for the financial year 1999/2000.

Mr Speaker, kindly allow me to begin my speech with a recast of a very interesting observation on government expenditure made by one M K Gandhi in 1923.  This is what Gandhi had to say:

	In every modern civilized community, the outlay of public funds collected by contributions from the community in a variety of forms, calls forth the liveliest interest from the taxpayers and demands the greatest carefulness from authorities entrusted with the outlay.  In theory, at least, the outlay of these monies must be, like the sowing of the seed by the farmer, in the hope and with the intention that it would be returned a hundredfold to the sower.

The significance of Gandhi's observation is that it reminds fiscal authorities of the need to apply public funds in the most productive manner at all times.  It recognises that public expenditure management must focus on conservation and utilisation of resources and emphasize economy and effectiveness in the delivery of services to the public.  For this reason, the management of public funds has to be a matter of intense and growing interest to members of the Legislature, acting as representatives of the public.

Mr Speaker, when my predecessor appeared before this House on 20 March 1998 to deliver the budget speech for the financial year 1998/99, he warned that the year 1998/99 would pose the most difficult financial and fiscal challenges to the Government and people of this Province.  My predecessor's warning was based on the fact that the Province was to commence the 1998/99 financial year with a deficit of R1,707 billion, amidst a declining provincial revenue.  To this must be added the 1996/97 deficit of some R264 million which was only discovered in mid-1997/98.  Fortunately, in exchange for accepting a directive in terms of Section 100 (1) (a) of the Constitution, the Central Government contributed R900 million towards reducing this cumulative deficit.

The size of the deficit and the short period over which the financial crisis emerged also created the uneasy feeling that expenditure management in the Province has become a herculean task, reflecting the growing complexity and difficulty in addressing the multiple dimensions of expenditure.  For many others, the problem reflected the failure of the government's efforts in addressing the crisis, and consequently the likelihood of its recurrence in 1998/99.

The likely recurrence of the expenditure crisis coupled with the growing scepticism of the public at the government's capacity to deal with it, on one hand, and the imperative need to control the deficit, on the other, induced the Provincial Government to take drastic measures to address the issue.  Today, I am pleased to inform the hon House that we have been able to turn around the finances of the Province.  The expenditure of the Province has not only been stabilised, but also it has been put under constant and careful monitoring and evaluation.  It is appropriate here for me to mention the Portfolio Committee in this regard, which has assisted enormously in this task.  As a result, the Province is anticipated to end the financial year 1998/99 with a saving of R241 million, which will be used to reduce the provincial debt.  This saving, hon members, is in fact less than we had hoped as will become apparent later in my address.

Mr Speaker, the turn around of the finances of the Province has not been the handiwork of any one individual or department.  The impression is sometimes created that Treasury, being the central agent of government, has monolithic power of control to meet every situation and contingency.  Any person engaged in expenditure management in government, however, is only too well aware of the crucial role of the spending agencies.  Without their response and co-operation, any strategic thinking and action by Treasury would be rendered ineffective.  Thus, in reality, the power of Treasury to control expenditure is widely shared, and as a result can in many cases be circumvented.

The success in turning the finances of the Province around is partly the result of the hard and diligent work of my Ministry and Treasury Committee, supported by the National Departments of Finance and State Expenditure.  However, it must be recorded that the success is also partly the result of the trust, understanding and co-operation which have been developed between Treasury and the other departments of the Province.  To that extend I thank, most sincerely, departmental political leadership, my colleagues in the Cabinet, together with departmental accounting officers and financial managers.

II	THE 1998/99 BUDGET

I turn now to the 1998/99 budget, the budget for the year to end on 31 March 1999.  Last year my predecessor presented a budget of R17,937 billion to the House for approval.  Of this, R17,511 billion was used to finance departmental expenditure and R426 million was reserved for debt redemption.  During the 1998/99 year, a number of function shifts took place between the Province and national departments, and internally, between departments and programmes.  There were also requests for additional funds for services for which no or insufficient moneys were appropriated, as well as other adjustments which Treasury found to be necessary.  May I depart from my text for a moment to inform members that one of the crises which arises when you end a year in deficit, is that legitimate requests for the roll over of unspent funds by some departments cannot be met because other departments have depleted all the cash reserves in the Treasury.  That is why, in fact, we are ending up with R241 million to contribute to the elimination of debt, rather than the R426 million that I have just mentioned as being the amount we had budgeted for this purpose.

Together, an additional amount of R902 million was requested under the 1998/99 Adjustments Budget moved in this House a few weeks ago, bringing the total revised budget of the Province for the 1998/99 financial year to R18,840 billion.  It is anticipated that, actual expenditure of the Province by the end of March 1999 will amount to R18,599 billion, thus leaving the savings of R241 million that I have referred to earlier.  It must be emphasised that the bulk of the additional amount requested is and will be used to fund expenditure on improvements and conditions of service for provincial personnel.  And by saying that, hon members, Mr Speaker, I am giving notice of course that we did not get additional money for ordinary every day use in the Province.

The anticipated expenditure then of R18,599 billion in 1998/99 represents a decline of R547 million compared with the actual expenditure in 1997/98.  The anticipated reduction in expenditure is a result of the various measures that were put in place during the year to achieve economy in expenditure in all departments.  These measures have succeeded to the extent that six departments will end the 1998/99 year with some savings and three departments will just balance their budgets.  If funds for improvement in conditions of service are taken into account, only three departments will end the year in deficit.

Mr Speaker, as we know, the expenditure of the Province is dominated by personnel costs and by transfer payments  These are costs that are either prescribed in law or legislation, or are driven by national mandates and agreements.  They are, in effect, fixed costs over which the Province has no control at all.  During the year, fixed costs accounted for some 92% of the total provincial budget, leaving only 8% of the budget for discretionary expenditure.  The portfolio of the fixed costs was made up as follows:

	Direct Personnel Costs	11,286,112
	Transfer payments for social pensions	 3,644,194
	National Conditional Grants	 1,085,000
	Contractual Obligations	    88,101

This totals R16,103 billion, leaving then in that particular year only R1,3 billion for discretionary expenditure.

HIS MAJESTY, THE KING ENTERS THE CHAMBER
HON MEMBERS PRESENT GIVE HIS MAJESTY, THE KING, THE ROYAL GREETING. 

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):
It is my warm privilege, hon members, to recognise His Majesty the King.  Not only is he honouring this Chamber by his presence, but he honours me by being present at my budget address and I deeply appreciate that,  Your Majesty.

If I might continue.  Not only do personnel costs and transfer payments dominate the provincial budget, but also these two items have become the major sources of increase in expenditure in the Province.  Expenditure on personnel is anticipated to increase from R10,762 billion in 1997/98 to R10,929 billion in 1998/99, representing an increase of R166 million.  Even after making adjustments in the 1998/99 budget, actual expenditure on personnel will increase by R499 million this year.  I must, however, mention that the increases in personnel costs in 1998/99 do not reflect increases in personnel numbers, but is rather a result of the increases in improvement in conditions of service.

I pause to reflect on a headline in one of the leading national newspapers yesterday which said, "Provinces cannot afford to pay people to do nothing", and indeed, that is something we are going to have to look at very carefully in the years that lie ahead.

Transfer payments, the bulk of which is for social security payments, will increase from R4,525 billion in 1997/98 to R4,628 billion, representing an increase of some R103 million in 1998/99.  However, the anticipated actual transfer payments in 1998/99 are expected to fall below the adjusted budget by some R75 million.

Expenditure on administration, stores and livestock, which is really a quaint name for inventory, equipment, land and buildings, and professional and special services, each witnessed a decline during the year under review.  Compared with 1997/98 figures, spending on administration in 1998/99 declined by R54,8 million.  Inventory expenditure declined by R175 million.  Expenditure on equipment declined by R199 million.  Expenditure on land and buildings dropped by R84 million and professional and special services was cut by R562 million.  These were the cuts that were necessary in order for us to come out when compared to our over-expenditure of the previous year.

Mr Speaker, the base of the provincial expenditure, in particular the expenditure of the three major Departments of Education, Health and Social Welfare, appears to have been stabilised.  Actual spending by the three departments together in 1998/99, and bear in mind that this includes recent additions for improvements in conditions of service, are anticipated to remain the same as that of the 1997/98 financial year.  In fact, had it not been for the increase in expenditure on social grants the 1998/99 expenditure on social services would have been smaller than the expenditure in the previous year.

Spending by the Department of Social Welfare in 1998/99 will amount to R3,871 billion, indicating an increase of R152,697 million over the amount spent in 1997/98.  The increase in Social Welfare's expenditure is attributed mainly to the payment in the second quarter of the year of a once-off payment of some R210 million to fund backlogs in social grants, and another R23 million for new beneficiaries for the period January to March 1999.  Spending by the Department of Education is anticipated to amount to R7,107 billion by the end of 1998/99, representing a decrease of R99 million over the amount spent in 1997/98.  We must, however, remind ourselves that the amount spent in 1997/98 was considerably more than the amount budgeted in 1997/98.  The expenditure by the Department of Health is expected to reach R4,650 billion by the end of the financial year, compared with the expenditure of R4,701 billion in 1997/98.  This year's figure represents a decrease of R50,5 million in the Department's expenditure.

It is important, at this stage, Mr Speaker, for me to draw the attention of members of the House to the fact that the reductions in expenditure by the Departments of Education and Health I have just indicated have taken into account adjustments made to the original budget of these departments, mainly to fund improvements in conditions of service for personnel.  I want to make it absolutely clear that these two departments have done wonders in terms of their control of actual operational expenditure, and that savings of an actual operational kind are much more than these figures would indicate.

III	POLICY MATTERS

Expenditure Monitoring and Evaluation

If I might now turn to some policy matters and under the heading Expenditure, Monitoring and Evaluation, we know that the 1997/98 financial year closed with a deficit of R1,7 billion, to which had to be added the R264 million deficit from 1996/97.  We also already know that we received R900 million from National Government towards meeting this deficit.  We therefore started 1998/99 with a deficit of R1,1 billion and to avoid a recurrence of the 1997/98 financial crisis, a wide range of mechanisms to monitor, control and evaluate expenditure of departments during the year were implemented.  This culminated in the establishment of bilateral meetings on expenditure between the Treasury Committee, representatives of National Departments of Finance and State Expenditure, and Ministers and Secretaries of departments and their senior managers.  During the year, three such meetings were held as I have mentioned earlier.  These meetings have enabled us to establish the base for consolidated expenditure for the Province and to stabilise the expenditure of the major departments.  In addition, the bilateral meetings with departments has fostered a shift in emphasis from enforcement of compliance to improved policy making, from management of appropriations to management of resources, and from consolidation of accounts to evaluation of results.  To this end, the bilateral expenditure meetings have been declared a permanent activity of the Province, and will be held in every quarter of each financial year.

As part of the expenditure management process, an "Early Warning Reporting System" was introduced at both the national and provincial level in November 1997.  This system of reporting is designed to inform Cabinet and Heads of departments on expenditure trends, projected surpluses and deficits of departments on a monthly basis.  This reporting system is complemented at the provincial level by a system of cash-flow management, which sets cash outflow limits to departments, depending on the aggregate cash inflow from the National Exchequer and provincial own revenue.  The Early Warning Reporting System will be strictly enforced during the 1999/2000 - 2001/2002 financial years, to enable Cabinet, Treasury and Heads of departments to detect areas of possible over-expenditure early enough to be able to take corrective measures.  The Early Warning Reporting System will also be converted to a complete monthly management report to include comparative and variance analysis.  In addition to the Early Warning Reports, the regular Ministerial Reports to Cabinet and Cabinet Committee and the periodic briefing to Parliamentarians are new innovations to the reporting system which have contributed significantly to the expenditure management in the Province.

Mr Speaker, I must pause here and remind our accounting officers that, despite the extremely difficult financial constraints confronting their departments, we cannot condone any over-expenditure by them, and they will have to accept full responsibility for the consequences should their departments overspend on their budgets without authorisation.  Forewarned is fore-armed, for a deficit in one year becomes the opening balance in the subsequent year.

Provincial Own-Source Revenue

I turn now to provincial own-source revenue.  Revenues collected from provincial own sources help to measure the capacity of the Province to mobilise resources to finance its responsibilities.  Such revenues also assist the Province to narrow the gap between local demands and resources made available from the National Exchequer.  The reliance on own revenue sources, furthermore, gives the Provincial Government the ability to act with a degree of autonomy in establishing its expenditure and revenue mix.  Since the moneys are obtained locally, own-source revenues have the effect of making the Government become accountable to the electorate.  Besides, since expenditure is now planned in the context of a medium term framework, then it is only appropriate that revenue planning is also undertaken so that appropriate balance can be achieved between expenditure and revenue at various stages of the fiscal plan.

Revenue from provincial own sources totalled R921 million in the 1995/96 financial year.  It is disturbing for me to have to report to this hon House that since then the figure has declined steadily, reaching R410 million at the end of January 1999.  The problems with own-source revenue are two-fold.  Firstly, many of the more buoyant revenue items have been crowded out since the beginning of the 1997/98 financial year.  Revenue from interest and dividends, which used to contribute over 30% of the total own-source revenue has ceased to be an important revenue source.  Hon members, Mr Speaker, we used to be an administration which earned interest.  We have become an administration which pays interest.  The collapse of revenue from interest and dividends is due to the inability of the Province as a result of over-expenditure to maintain positive balances in its bank account at all times.

The second problem with own-source revenue has to do with non-collection, and I cannot emphasise how seriously this has impacted on the recovery rate.  The recovery rate of own-source revenue stood at 148% in 1994/95.  At the end of January 1999, the recovery rate was only 77% and for licenses and permits the recovery rate was only 38%.  The decline in the recovery rate is a reflection of the extent of deterioration in own-source revenue administration in the Province, which itself is due to a number of factors.  These include, among others, non-existence of revenue sub-directorates and responsibility officers in departments; non-monitoring and follow-ups on outstanding revenue; non-recovery of housing rentals, non-recovery of loans to officials; non-collection of hospital fees; and delays in the collection of road traffic fines.

In an attempt to deal with this problem of own-source revenue mobilisation in the Province, Cabinet has resolved as follows:

	Heads of departments must establish revenue administration sub-directorates or units in their departments and must appoint responsible officers;

	The Department of Works, in conjunction with client departments, must collect all accrued rentals from government houses, whether these houses are occupied by civil servants or not;

	The Department of Works, in conjunction with client departments, must provide a register of all government houses, their location and condition, who occupies these houses and what rent is paid;

	The Financial Adjustment Act must be amended to allow all traffic fines issued by provincial traffic officers to accrue to the Province;  and 

	All departments must take immediate steps to review their tariffs, rates, fines, fees, rent, etcetera, to be in line with the current market trends.

Procurement Administration

Mr Speaker, I turn now to procurement administration.  The Provincial Tender Board established itself firmly during the 1998/99 financial year.  On average, the Board convened four meetings per month, and awarded a total of 260 contracts to the value of R738 million.  In awarding these contracts, a strong emphasis was placed on the need to support small and emerging enterprises, as well as individuals and groups who were previously disadvantaged by virtue of race.

Despite the achievements of the Tender Board during the year, a number of problems continue to undermine procurement administration in the Province.  In particular, delegations to Heads of departments to empower them in the area of procurement have not been done.  The efficiency in procurement administration and costs also leaves much to be desired.  Amendments to the Tender Regulations to address these and other critical issues, have already been submitted to the Finance Portfolio Committee for consideration and approval, and it is my hope that I will be able to take these amendments as soon as possible, to a meeting of Cabinet, in order that the amendments to the Regulations can be implemented before the end of this financial year.

The Tender Appeals Tribunal was established during the year and is already considering a number of complaints and appeals.  A few aspects of the appeals procedure, however, need to be implemented before the appeals mechanism becomes fully functional.  The issue of the establishment of Tender Advice Centres will be dealt with during the 1999/2000 financial year.

IV	THE 1999/2000 BUDGET

Mr Speaker, I now turn to the 1999/2000 budget, and have to begin with certain underlying factors.

Section 100 (1)(a) Grant Conditions

I have mentioned that the Province received a grant of R900 million from the National Government in accordance with Section 100 (1)(a) of the National Constitution.  This grant came with a number of conditions, which affected the 1998/99 budget and will continue to affect the 1999/2000 and subsequent budgets.  First, there was the requirement that 85% of the total provincial budget for 1998/99 and subsequent years must be allocated to social services, namely education, health and social welfare, leaving only 15% to be shared between the remaining services.  Secondly, the Province was required to set aside at least R500 million in the 1998/99 budget to finance a portion of the 1997/98 deficit.  In addition to this, a plan for funding the balance of the 1997/98 deficit and the accumulated deficit for the years preceding 1997/98 had to be drawn up and agreed upon by the Province and the National Government.  Thirdly, the MEC for Finance was required to submit to the National Minister of Finance a detailed expenditure plan, which included measures to improve financial management in the Province and to ensure sustainable budgets over the medium term.  The expenditure plan was also required to demonstrate a well considered balance between recurrent and capital expenditure to ensure that economic development is maintained, while taking into account the need for recurrent expenditure to achieve full utilisation and maintenance of existing and newly created capital assets.

Mr Speaker, a careful examination of the original 1998/99 budget, introduced by my predecessor on 20 of March 1998, indicated that of the total amount of R17,511 billion available for allocation, R15,319 billion, representing some 87,5% was given to social services, leaving only 12,5% for the other services.  This means that more money was allocated to the social services sector than was required under the Section 100 (1)(a) Agreement.  Given the need, Mr Speaker, to maintain the stability established in the expenditure on social services, it has been decided that the 85%:15% ratio will be phased in over a three-year period, beginning in the 1999/2000 financial year.

The practical implications of this, hon members, is that the growth rate of all those departments financed by the 15% portion of our budget, will be slightly faster than the growth rate of the major social services.  But when you realise, and those of you who can remember the detail of last year's budget, will know that all the departments other than the three major departments, took huge cuts in their budgets in 1998/99.  Even today when I indicate the allocations for the next financial year, we will see large percentage increases, but which do not even put them back to the position that they were in 1996/97.

The repayment of the accumulated deficits for the years leading to 1997/98 and the balance of the 1997/98 deficit, will commence at the end of this financial year with the anticipated savings of R241 million.  Provisions for the redemption of the remaining debt and for the servicing of the costs that that debt inevitably incurs, have been made in the expenditure plan for the next three years.  In the financial year 1999/2000, an amount of R506 million has been set aside to redeem part of the debt and pay the associated servicing costs.  It is also planned that some R488 million will be set aside in 2000/01 and R509 million in 2001/02 to pay off the debt and the interest charges.

It is interesting then of course to speculate about the windfall that will suddenly become available to us, when we have redeemed our debt in full, because it will mean that something between R400m and R500m will become available to then use for departmental expenditure.

Infrastructure Maintenance

Mr Speaker, I must now spend some time speaking on infrastructure maintenance, because I believe this to be a crisis situation, not only in our Province, but in our country.

As I have mentioned earlier, the Section 100 (1)(a) conditions require the Province to ensure a full utilisation and maintenance of new and existing capital assets.  As I speak to you, there are a number of complaints about the lack of maintenance of public infrastructure in the Province.  To illustrate this point I have asked that the parliamentary staff distribute to members just two important press items in the last 24 hours, one headed "No relief for schools in disrepair", and the other headed "On the Road to Ruin".  These two articles greatly emphasise and give credence to what I wish to share with you now.

May I start with the Department of Transport, which has indicated that it is so far behind in its road maintenance programme due to a lack of funds.  Then the Human Science Research Council (1997) Report on the "Survey of Educational Needs", points to a serious lack of maintenance of school buildings, equipment and security, as well as inadequate supply of utilities to schools in the Province.  The Department of Health's maintenance programme is estimated in this Province alone to be in the neighbourhood of R2 billion per annum, while the maintenance programme of the Department of Works has, for all practical purposes, come to a complete standstill.

Whatever the cause of the inadequate provision for maintenance expenditure is, the fact remains that, while the initial impact of inadequate maintenance is felt at the microeconomic level in the form of deteriorating infrastructure, this will eventually have serious macroeconomic consequences as well.  The pay-off that will arise, and does arise, from increased attention to maintenance includes favourable effects on growth and employment.  Increasingly, it is realized that higher economic growth depends as much on efforts to reduce inefficient utilization of existing capital stock as on the creation of new capacity.  This is because poorly maintained and unreliable infrastructure and service delivery systems hamper both public and private sector activity.  Because the maintenance of infrastructure tends to be relatively labour-intensive, increasing maintenance expenditure can and does have positive consequences on the level of employment in the economy.

For the reasons outlined above, coupled with the fact that the base for expenditure consolidation seems to have been laid in the Province, it has been decided to make conditional allocations for the maintenance of infrastructure and other facilities over the medium term.  I want to emphasise, hon members, Mr Speaker, that these conditional allocations are over and above the normal allocation that all accounting officers should be making in their standard budgets for the maintenance function.  For the 1999/2000 financial year, an amount of R25 million has been provided additionally as a conditional allocation for the maintenance of school buildings and equipment.  Another similar conditional additional allocation of R25 million has been provided for maintenance of hospitals and hospital equipment.  A further conditional additional allocation, again, and I am emphasising this deliberately, has been made to the Department of Transport of R44 million for road infrastructure maintenance.  We cannot afford to allow the circulatory system of our Province to collapse.  In addition to this, a special additional conditional allocation has been made to our Department of Works for the maintenance of all other provincial buildings and fixed assets and offices, etcetera.  I do want to emphasise that the allocations to education and health are over and above the normal share that they will be able to negotiate and which is currently allocated in the Works budget.

Mr Speaker, I must make it clear to accounting officers, as I have already said, that these allocations are to be seen as over and above the normal departmental maintenance budgets.  In order to ensure that these funds are used only for the maintenance of physical infrastructure and facilities the funds have been designated as Column 2 items, and departments who receive these conditional grants are required to report on the utilization separately to the Treasury.

Stimulation of Economic Growth

Mr Speaker, governments have many reasons to wish for higher economic growth, not least because such higher growth eases the pressure on government finances through higher revenues, and also generates employment and incomes, thereby reducing poverty and public transfer payments.  The growth prospects of the Province, and indeed the South African economy, look very bleak, requiring strategies to accelerate recovery and build a stronger economy.  Although the government cannot fully control the economy, it can pursue policies to enhance growth prospects and to reduce the vagaries of the economic cycle.  This will enable private business and commerce to respond vigorously to upturns in the economy, while the government reaps the reward.

Evidence available points to several potential economic growth points in the Province of KwaZulu-Natal.  It is well-known that the Province can reap potential benefits from the tourist industry as it can from the agricultural sector.  For this reason, conditional additional allocations have also been made over the medium term to stimulate economic growth in the identified fast-track activities.  For the 1999/2000 financial year, an amount of R46,69 million has been allocated for rural agricultural development and food production, over and above the normal budget, and is designed specifically to contribute to the alleviation of rural poverty and to ensure rural food sufficiency.  It is very important, hon members, Mr Speaker, that it must be understood that this money is not designed as a once-off hand-out.  It is designed to put in place projects which will then become self-sustaining, so that there will be continued benefit obtained by our people in the deep rural areas.  It is particularly important when we recognise that South Africa, technically at least, is actually in a recession at the present time.  Joblessness is at its height.  It is important, therefore, that relief be brought in rural areas for people to be able to become self-sufficient, particularly in regard to their nutritional needs.

In addition to this, Mr Speaker, a sum of R6,56 million has been provided, and over and above the normal budget, for tourism development and the Tourism Authority, while a further R30,21 million has been provided for the upkeep, maintenance and creation of new infrastructure and facilities in the Province's premier tourism attractions, namely the provincial parks.  In particular it is intended that this money should also help the KwaZulu-Natal Nature Conservation Service Maputoland to make a meaningful contribution to the development of tourism infrastructure in the St Lucia Wetland Park and in Maputoland.  Up until now this Province has been, in word only, a supporter of the Lebombo Spatial Initiative and the Corridor.  We have not simply had any resources to put towards making that idea a reality, and it is hoped that this conditional grant will in fact show that that particular project is not to be driven entirely at national level, but should also be driven very significantly by the Province in which it is situated.

Like the conditional allocations for infrastructure maintenance, and I emphasise this again, these allocations are seen as over and above the normal budget for these activities, they are also designated as Column 2 items in the budget, and departments that receive these allocations are required to report on them separately to Treasury.

Vote 16:  Royal Household

I now want to deal with a new vote, vote 16, the vote for the Royal Household.  Let me say that this is placed here without knowing that we would be honoured by the presence of His Majesty here today.

Given the importance of His Majesty, the King, in the Province, it has become necessary to give the Royal Household a separate vote to be placed under the Director-General's Office, with the Director-General as the Accounting Officer.  Vote 16, therefore, herein called The Royal Household vote, has been established.  All services rendered to His Majesty, the King, will be funded from funds placed in this vote.  The consolidation of the expenditure on services rendered to His Majesty under one vote is done to allow for proper planning, monitoring and control.  It will also ensure an effective utilisation of the funds and proper up-keep of the Royal Household.

V	REVENUE

I come now to revenue.  Mr Speaker, having outlined the factors underpinning the 1999/2000 budget, I now proceed to deal with the revenue side.  Revenue to the Province normally comes in two major forms: national transfers and provincial own-source revenue.  The national transfers consist of three different forms.  These are the equitable share of the nationally collected revenue, supplementary allocation and conditional grants.  As the name implies, the conditional grants must be used solely for the purpose for which they are granted.

In the 1999-2000 financial year, the Province will receive a total revenue of R18,804 billion.  This figure, which excludes funds for improvement in conditions of service, and conditional grants not yet appropriated, is made up as follows:

Equitable Share	16,706,509
	
Finance Supplementary Allocation	509,280

May I just, by way of additional
information, indicate that that is
a special allocation designed to
help a province such as ours catch
up on certain backlogs.

then we have conditional grants for
Health Services amounting to:	916,385
	
There is a Local Government 
Conditional Grant for the payment
of staff at R293 Towns of 	144,000
	
Then we have our estimated 
Provincial Own-Source Revenue of 	528,000
giving us R18,804b as the Revenue
available to the Province for
1999/2000.

TOTAL	R18 804,214
                                          
This represents an increase of R866 million over the 1998/99 budgeted revenue.  Notice that I emphasise budgeted revenue as against what we actually spent.  Compared, however, with the adjusted revenue for 1998/99, the 1999/2000 revenue figure shows a decrease of R35 million.

VI	EXPENDITURE

Mr Speaker, since the National Constitution precludes provinces from budgeting for a deficit, it follows that we can only budget for what we have.  The budget for the 1999/2000 financial year for the Province therefore is R18,804,214 million.  This amount represents an increase of 4,8% over the 1998/99 original budget.  Compared with the expected actual expenditure in 1998/99, however, the budget for 1999/2000 represents only an increase of 1,1%.  After setting aside the sum of R505m to redeem part of our accumulated debt, the balance of R18,298,572 becomes available for allocation to departments.

Lest hon members are really depressed at this stage, let me hasten to add that during the course of the coming financial year, there will of course be an adjusted estimate which will deal primarily with the issue of improvements in conditions of service to provincial personnel.  And I do want to emphasise that our expenditure figures last year include what we got for improvement in conditions of service.  Our budget so far this year excludes that figure.  So there will be more money obtained at the appropriate time when the bargaining councils have reached their agreements as to exactly what money we will have available for improvement in conditions of service.

Allocations to Departments

I now move, Mr Speaker, to announcing the allocations to departments for the 1999/2000 financial year.

Vote 1:  Premier

The Department of the Premier is allocated an amount of R83,596 million for the financial year 1999/2000.  This amount represents an increase of R32,553 million, or 63,8% over the 1998/99 allocation.  The large increase in the allocation to the Premier's Department is due mainly to a function shift in respect of the transfer of the Information Technology Directorate from the Department of Finance as well as the transfer of staff from the Provincial Service Commission.  The Department's allocation also includes a Column 2 grant-in-aid of R3,510 million to the Emandleni Youth Camp.

Vote 2:  Provincial Legislature

An amount of R50,464 million has been allocated to the Provincial Legislature.  This allocation represents an increase of R6,636 million, or 15,1% over the 1998/99 allocation.

Vote 3:  Agriculture

The sum of R337,487 million has been allocated to the Department of Agriculture for the financial year 1999/2000.  This figure, which includes a Column 2 conditional grant of R46,690 million for rural agricultural development and food production designed to alleviate poverty, represents an increase of R94,849 million, or R39,1% over the 1998/99 allocation.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):
Let me say, Mr Speaker, some of these percentage increases over 1998/99 sound quite impressive.  In most instances they are still below the amounts that were allocated in 1997/98.  So we must not be fooled by fancy percentages.

Vote 4:  Economic Affairs and Tourism

Last year, the sum of R83,461 million was allocated, and for this year an amount of R108,094 million has been allocated to the Department.  This amount includes the Column 2 conditional grant I spoke about earlier, which is over and above the normal grant of R4,39 million for tourism.  It also includes R2,170 million for the Sharks Board, R33,000 for S A Lifesaving and R34 million for KwaZulu Finance Corporation, which I might add, is a contribution to their equity capital - this represents an increase of R24,633 million, or 29,5% over last year's allocation.

Vote 5:  Education and Culture

A provision of R7,188,362 has been made for the Department of Education in the 1999/2000 budget.  This amount represents an increase of R319,362 million, or 4,6% over last year's allocation.  There is also here a Column 2 conditional grant of R25 million for maintenance of school buildings and equipment.  Let me say here that expressed as a percentage, it does not sound very impressive, but I think we must all remember that this time last year, every department in the administration took huge cuts and only three departments got increases last year, and those were Education, Health and Welfare.

Vote 6:  Finance

The Department of Finance was allocated an amount of R168,211 million in the 1998/99 budget.  For this year, an amount of R126,061 million has been allocated to the Department.  This amount represents a decrease of 25% over the 1998/99 allocation due to function shifts.  In addition to the allocation for its operational activities, the amount of R505,642 million is held in the Department of Finance's vote, being the amount reserved for provincial overdraft and debt redemption.  So, the total amount that will be under the control of the Department of Finance, amounts to R631,703 million.  Bear in mind that in a sense this is a vote of convenience to hold money which will be used for debt redemption and the servicing of the costs of our debt.

Vote 7:  Health

An amount of R4,464,000 million was allocated to the Department of Health in 1998/99.  For this financial year, the Department of Health has been allocated the sum of R4,893,942 million, representing an increase of R429,942 million, or 9,6% over the 1998/99 allocation.  The allocation to the Department, however, includes a conditional grant of R916 million for the Durban Academic Hospital, for the Primary School Nutrition Programme, and for Central Hospital Services, and a Column 2 conditional grant of R25 million, which I have discussed earlier, for the maintenance of hospitals and equipment.

Vote 8:  Local Government and Housing

The Department of Local Government and Housing has been allocated the sum of R452,497 million for the 1999/2000 financial year.  This amount includes a conditional grant of R144 million for personnel costs in respect of R293 Towns, and represents a decrease of R349 million, or 43,5% below the 1998/99 allocation.  The sharp reduction in the allocation to the Department of Local Government and Housing in the 1999/2000 financial year is due mainly to the reduction of the conditional grant in respect of the R293 Towns.

However, before municipalities, who have R293 Towns in their boundaries take fright, we must remember that the reduction to us is balanced by an increase in the allocation to the National Department of Constitutional Development and Provincial Affairs, who effectively are taking over the payment of grants to R293 Towns.




Vote 9:  Safety and Security

The Department of Safety and Security has been allocated the sum of R4,901m for the 1999/2000 financial year, representing an increase of R508,000 over the 1998/99 allocation.

Vote 10:  Provincial Service Commission

The Provincial Service Commission was allocated the sum of R6,681 million in 1998/99 and in this year an amount of only R0,968 million is allocated to the Commission.  The sharp reduction in the allocation is due to the transfer of staff to the Department of the Premier due to the imminent dissolution of the Provincial Service Commission.

Vote 11:  Traditional and Environmental Affairs

The Department of Traditional and Environmental Affairs has been allocated the sum of R218,616 million for the coming financial year, representing an increase of R55,666 million, or 34,2% over the Department's allocation in 1998/99.  The 1999/2000 allocation includes a Column 2 conditional grant of R30,208 million for the conservation of provincial and national parks in our area.  I did expand upon that earlier when I spoke about the development of tourism infrastructure at the greater St Lucia Wetland Park and in Maputoland.  There is then also R138,813 million for the KwaZulu-Natal Nature Conservation Services, R217,000 for S A Association of Marine Biological Research, and another R200,000, which is a special additional grant, conditional for Traditional Authorities.  One must not however believe that that is all the money that will be spent on Traditional Authorities - it is for a specific purpose on the side.

Vote 12:  Transport

The allocation to the Department of Transport for the financial year 1999/2000 has been increased by R251,851 million, or by 56,7% to R696,041 million.  This allocation includes a Column 2 conditional grant of R44,03 million for road maintenance.

I must say that that particular grant to the Department of Transport is also influenced by the fact that during the last twelve months the Cabinet agreed that a certain percentage of the additional income being raised by the Department of Transport, through the levying of increased licence fees from motorists, should in fact be used for the maintenance and upgrading of the infrastructure that those motorists use, and so, part of that increase can be explained by the fact that during the course of last year, R60 million from that income, also went particularly for the construction of rural access roads to communities who had no access at all.

Vote 13:  Social Welfare

The Department of Social Welfare has been allocated an amount of R3,797,310 million for the 1999/2000 financial year.  This amount represents a decrease of R188,690 million, or 4,7% over the provision made by the Department in the 1998/99 budget.  This allocation is based on a thorough calculation of the actual expenditure of the Department in the current financial year, and we must bear in mind that in the current financial year, a once-off R210 million payment in the second quarter of the year for backlogs in social grants, and another R23,7m to cover payments of grants to new beneficiaries for the period of January to March 1999 was made, and that these payments will not repeat themselves in the 1999/2000 financial year.

Vote 14:  Works

For the 1999/2000 financial year, the Department of Works has been allocated the sum of R328,019 million.  This allocation represents an increase of R92,537 million, or 28,2% increase over its allocation in 1998/99.  The Department's allocation for 1999/2000 includes a Column 2 conditional grant of R45,075 million for the maintenance of provincial infrastructure, public buildings, offices and other fixed assets, and R10,000 grant-in-aid for the National Occupational Safety Association.

Vote 15:  Promoting Reconstruction and Development

I wish to report that no amount is allocated for this service in the 1999/2000 financial year.  However, the vote still remains in the budget because it will have a considerable carry-over from the present financial year and we hope then to be able to finalise this matter and the spending of the money in the coming year.

Vote 16:  The Royal Household

The Royal Household is a new vote that has been created with effect from the 1999/2000 financial year.  For 1999/2000, an amount of R12,214 million has been allocated to the Royal Household.  This represents an increase of R0,438 million, or 3,7%, over the allocation in the 1998/99 financial year.

VII	TABLING OF DOCUMENTS

Mr Speaker, public funds can be spent only when they have been appropriated by an Act of Parliament.  To this end then, I put before the House the Appropriation Bill, 1999/2000 for consideration and approval.  The purpose of this Bill is to appropriate money for the requirements of the Province for the financial year ending 31 March 2000.  Mr Speaker, I therefore formally table the Appropriation Bill, 1999/2000.

I also table the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the financial year ending 31 March 2000, together with the schedules pertaining to the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF), figures for 2000/2001 and 2001/2002 financial years, as well as the Medium Term Fiscal Plan (MTFP) document for the Province.

The latter document, which has been distributed to all members, contains updated and current statistical information, which should be of great value to hon members, as well as being a valuable guide to budgetary issues over the medium term.

Hon members, I would really commend this document to you.  It is effectively the financial guidelines for this Province for the next three years and should become this Parliament's financial bible.  Contained in there too, is updated information on our Province obtained from the latest census and from the latest research projects from the Human Sciences Research Council and will enable every member, when he is speaking about population, or GDP, or wanting to quote figures that pertain to this Province, we have made sure that we have put those figures in this document for your use.

VIII	CONCLUSION

Finally, in conclusion, Mr Speaker, hon members, the budget I have placed before the House today clearly demonstrates where we have come from and the progress that we have made.  It shows the extent to which the finances of the Province have been stabilised, thereby permitting in a modest way an attempt to begin to establish a proper balance between the recurrent and capital expenditure.  The allocation of special conditional funds for infrastructure maintenance and the stimulation of economic growth is designed to achieve this purpose.  We would have done more in terms of shifting resources into capital expenditure, but we are very much aware of the fact that if the recurrent expenditure is cut too much and too quickly, the likelihood of the capital budget being used in future to replace assets that have deteriorated beyond the point of repair because of lack of funds for operating expenses becomes very high.

Very simply stated, Mr Speaker, we cannot afford to build a single new classroom if in the process 100 existing classrooms fall into such disrepair that they cannot be used any more.  We cannot provide additional hospital beds if our existing hospital beds are situated in institutions which are not fit for human habitation.  We cannot start building new roads while the ones that we have got can no longer take vehicles.  So I do want to emphasise that this budget is a modest start towards trying to get us to pay real and urgent attention to the maintenance of what we have got, because to lose it would be far more expensive in the long term than would be the price we pay if we are not able to provide brand new additional facilities at this time.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):
Besides, Mr Speaker, under-funding of recurrent expenditure in the health and education sectors may, in fact, represent an important disinvestment in human capital.  The strategy we have adopted therefore is to undertake a gradual and systematic restructuring of recurrent spending so that any consequential savings arising there from will be shifted into capital expenditure.

A year ago, Mr Speaker, this Province was the laughing stock amongst many people in the country because our finances were in a state of complete flux.  However, with determination, vision, unity and the will to succeed, we, all of us together, have today succeeded in turning around our finances.  The changes have been so dramatic and successful that, the National Minister of Finance, who at one stage threatened to take over the financial management of the Province, went out of his way to praise the Province during the national Adjustment Budget in November 1998, and again during the presentation of the National Budget in February 1999.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Speaker, I believe that the budget I have placed before the House today is in a small sense a budget of inspiration and a budget of hope.  I know that it is also a budget of holding the fort and a budget of maintenance, but it is a budget that will begin to establish the base for sustained economic growth and development of the Province, and I believe that it is a budget that needs the support of all hon members of both sides of the House.

Mr Speaker, please permit me then, at this stage, to render my sincere appreciation and thanks to my colleagues in the Cabinet, to the members of the Provincial Budget Committee, to all Heads of departments and to the National Departments of Finance and Expenditure, for their support during the most difficult time we have experienced.  Finally, I thank you all here present today for your support of the Government of the Province of KwaZulu-Natal.

Inkosi inibusise nonke.  [May God bless you all].

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, hon Minister.  In terms of Rule 133 I will now refer this Bill to the Portfolio Committee concerned for deliberation.  Thank you.

Since we do have some time, I will go back to Item 8.1, to allow the Premier, as I promised, to reply to the questions that were directed to his Department.

8.1	QUESTIONS

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN A LATER VOLUME.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, hon Premier.  The House will adjourn now for lunch and we will come back at 14:00.

	HOUSE ADJOURNED AT 12:30

	THE HOUSE RESUMED AT 14:10

THE SPEAKER:  Yes, hon member, Mr Hamilton?

MR A J HAMILTON:  Mr Speaker, thank you.  I did speak to you before the session resumed to apologise for not being in a position to table the report of the Portfolio Committee on Economic Affairs and Tourism on the Ithala Development Finance Corporation Bill, the Memorandum and the Bill in the three official languages.  I thank you for your permission in allowing me to do so after lunch and to inform you that the four documents are presently being tabled in the House right now.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Now we move on to item No 8.3.

8.3	KWAZULU-NATAL ITHALA DEVELOPMENT FINANCE CORPORATION BILL

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Minister of Economic Affairs?

MR J G ZUMA: (Minister of Economic Affairs and Tourism):  Thank you.  Mr Speaker, hon members, it gives me great pleasure to introduce the KwaZulu-Natal Ithala Development Finance Corporation Bill to this House.  The Bill, which is in itself an instrument of transformation, represents the culmination of much hard work dealing with the transformation process of the KFC.  I must, however, sound a cautionary note to members neither to view the Bill as being the only step, nor as the end product of the KFC's transformation.  On the contrary, the transformation of the KFC was a lengthy process and the Bill represents but one of the many steps associated with this process.

Indeed, the finalisation of the Bill represents the "legal" transformation of the KFC, providing a statutory mechanism needed to bring the KFC's objects, mandate and control reporting structures into line with the present constitutional dispensation thereby ensuring that its underlying principles and standards of governance, accounting and transparency more accurately reflect present norms and values.

However, it must be appreciated that there are other issues of such a nature that would not normally be included in legislation, and which will still need to be addressed in order to complete the transformation of the organisation.  It is for this reason that the incoming Board of Directors of the Ithala Development Finance Corporation should be tasked with taking the process of transformation further, in consultation with the Provincial Government and other stakeholders.

Hon members, having briefly touched on the responsibilities of the incoming Board of Directors, I believe that the current Board of the KFC needs to be commended for the role which it has played in initiating and driving the transformation process.  As early as March 1995, the Board pro-actively reviewed the business practices and policies of the KFC, removing discriminatory practices, thereby ensuring consistency with the non-racial Constitution.  Since the revised business practices and policies were directly in conflict with the KwaZulu Corporation Act, the Board sought my prior approval in giving effect to these fundamental changes.

In addition to this initiative, the Board submitted written proposals on a suggested process of transformation during May 1995, which provided for the appointment of a task team to review the role, activities and modus operandi of the KFC.  Without their constructive foresight and resolve, the transformation process would not have reached the stage it has.

Having referred to the ongoing nature of the KFC's transformation, it is also important to have clarity on the objectives of transformation.  At the outset of the KFC's transformation, I stated that the objective of the transformation process of the KFC is to more effectively satisfy the changing economic development needs of the people in the Province of KwaZulu-Natal.  I believe that the Bill, in conjunction with the other steps, achieves its objective.

Hon members, the process of transformation has been extensive, transparent and above all, participative.  I have, in order to save time as well as for purposes of convenience, circulated a flow-chart indicating the transformation process of the KFC, from which you will note the consultation which has taken place with numerous stakeholders.

You will also observe from the flow-chart that Cabinet appointed a Provincial Development Finance Corporation (PDFC) Steering Committee consisting of myself, as Chairman, the Minister of Finance, the Chairperson of the Economic Affairs and Tourism Portfolio Committee, the Chairperson of the Finance Portfolio Committee and a representative of the existing KFC Board, with very specific terms of reference to propose recommendations on the mandate, governance, reporting and funding structures, and the name of a new single PDFC for the Province.

These recommendations, together with the draft legislation, were then to be submitted to Cabinet, after consultation with stakeholders.  In order to assist it with the fulfilment of its terms of reference, the PDFC Steering Committee appointed a Profession Resource Team and a Drafting Team, which was to follow a two phased approach.  Firstly, the Drafting Team was to prepare a detailed memorandum for consideration by the PDFC Steering Committee, covering key components of relevant issues to be incorporated into draft legislation.  Secondly, using the approved memorandum as a point of departure, the Drafting Team, consisting of both local and international experts, drawn from different disciplines, was to formulate draft legislation, including regulations for consideration by the Provincial Government.

Should the hon members require a copy of the Explanatory Memorandum, it is available on request from the Speaker.

In terms of the PDFC Steering Committee meeting its terms of reference, a number of issues have been addressed, which I will deal with individually.

Firstly, the PDFC Steering Committee had to determine whether there should be an entirely new organisation or whether the KFC should assume a new identity, and proposals in this regard can be found in the Explanatory Memorandum.

One of the many factors considered by the PDFC Steering Committee was the issue of the legal rights of staff, which are protected by the Labour Relations Act.  This Act prescribes certain requirements relating to the transfer of contracts of employment from one employer to another, as well as retrenchment proceedings.  Over and above the Labour Relations Act, the PDFC Steering Committee had to take into account the implications of the National Framework Agreement.  This Agreement provided guidelines concerning both objectives and process which are intended to apply to the restructuring of any State-owned enterprise up to and including 27 April 1999.  Having considered, amongst numerous other issues, the cost implications of consulting with staff and retrenchments, the PDFC Steering Committee proposed that:

	A new PDFC should not be established, but the KFC should continue to exist, under new governing legislation and with a new mandate, corporate identity and name.

This proposal has been carried through to the Bill, and is to be found in Section 2, entitled "Continuation, renaming and transformation of the KwaZulu Finance and Investment Corporation Limited."

Secondly, the PDFC Steering Committee considered the new mandate for the transformed organisation and proposals in this regard are once again to be found in the Explanatory Memorandum.  Section 5 of the Bill: "Method and area of operation of corporation", reflects the proposals of the Explanatory Memorandum.

Thirdly, governance considerations are detailed in the Explanatory Memorandum and at Sections 8 to 16 of the Bill.  In essence, governance issues deal with the composition of the Board, the appointment of the directors, the terms and conditions of non-executive directors, the Chairperson and the deputy Chairperson, the executive director, and Board committees.

Fourthly, the issue of funding/mobilisation of financial resources is comprehensively dealt with in the Explanatory Memorandum, where it is, inter alia, proposed that at the primary (holding) level, provision should be made for government funding of the PDFC by way of annual share capital allocations.  After recommendations by the PDFC Steering Committee, Cabinet approved an extension of the terms of reference of the PDFC Steering Committee to make provision for an investigation to be conducted into the option of private sector equity participation in the transformed organisation.  As a result, it has been agreed that, Ithala should actively seek private sector equity participation at the secondary (functional) level, in respect of those activities where this would be feasible.

The Explanatory Memorandum makes provision for policy directives to be issued by the responsible Minister.  This principle has been incorporated into the Bill, at Section 6, where the Minister, after consultation with the Board and the Portfolio Committee, and in consultation with the Premier-in-Cabinet, may set strategic guidelines for the pursuit of the corporation's objects, by issuing policy directives to the Board and the Minister may similarly withdraw, or amend any policy directive so issued.  Furthermore, it shall be the responsibility of the Board to report to the Minister on the extent of its compliance or non-compliance with all existing policy directives, under cover of its annual report.

A very important principle to emerge from the Explanatory Memorandum is that Ithala should become less dependent on Government sources of finance, becoming more autonomous and broadening its ownership base, especially in such a way as to incorporate clients as owners.

Hon members, I am sure you will agree with me in saying that the PDFC Steering Committee, the Professional Resource Team and the Drafting Team have produced an outstanding Explanatory Memorandum and draft Bill.  I therefore wish to record our collective appreciation to the members of these bodies for the high quality of work which they have produced.

Lastly, I wish to inform the hon members that the Executive Director of the KFC, Dr Marius Spies, informed me of his intention to take retirement on 21 March 2000, prior to formally informing the KFC's Board of Directors on 30 September 1998.

Dr Spies assumed control of the Development Corporation in 1982 at a time when it was in a parlous state.  Through his dedication and determination, the corporation became the most successful provincial development corporation in the country.

Dr Spies has given 18 months notice so as to allow for, especially given the new legislation, the recruitment of a suitable successor as well as a lengthy hand over period, in view of the complex nature of the KFC's business.  It goes without saying that a smooth transition in this sense will have a positive effect on staff morale.

Mr Speaker, hon members, I wish to draw your attention to an important principle put forward by the PDFC Steering Committee, which was subsequently approved by Cabinet on 30 September 1998, that whilst political objectives and guidelines should be evident in the purpose and mandate of Ithala, technical considerations should prevail in its day-to-day management decisions.

In conclusion, I wish to say that having worked closely with the KFC over the past four years, it is apparent that one of the reasons for its success has been the lack of political intervention in its operational activities up to now.  I would like to express the wish that this practice continue into the future.

With this new KFC I hope that we will be able to add value to our dealings with the public.  I hope that it will be in a position to deal with issues to the satisfaction of everyone.  There have been great successes, but there have also been some concerns in the area of KFC's operations.  I believe that the transformation will eliminate any concerns and succeed to fulfil its mandate as set out by Cabinet.  If, in the past, under very difficult conditions, the KFC could do what it did, then, in the new dispensation, a transformed KFC should be able to make a big difference in the lives of the people of KwaZulu-Natal.

Mr Speaker, hon members, I move that the Bill be approved by this House.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, Mr Minister.  On the revised list of speakers, I will now call upon Mr A J Hamilton, for his 15 minutes.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, some hon members of this House may not be aware of the origins of the name Ithala and what it means.  As far as I have been able to ascertain, it means a place of safekeeping and was proposed by a former Speaker of the KwaZulu Legislature and Chairman of the KFC, none other than the late and greatly revered Bishop Zulu.

Mr Speaker, the KFC has its beginnings in 1978, when it was formed under the direction of the Chief Minister of KwaZulu, Dr Buthelezi, and went under the name of the KwaZulu Development Corporation.  The KDC/KFC, has the singular distinction of being the only successful Provincial Development Corporation in South Africa, and what a success story it has been.  Since 1980 the KwaZulu Finance Corporation has created and maintained 10,000 jobs and some 3,300 enterprises.

Since 1994, it has redistributed 2,600 hectares of land and assisted 1,549 home owners with accommodation.  It has built numerous factories, mini factories and shopping centres, and now owns 1 013,433 square metres of industrial property, making it the largest single owner of industrial undertakings in the Province of KwaZulu-Natal.

These have been of great assistance to our small entrepreneurs.  The assets of the KFC, Mr Speaker, have since 1982 until today, grown from R150 million to R2.5 billion.

In 1984, the KFC took over a small bank from the CED, with just two branches.  Ithala Bank, as it is now known, has some 45 branches, with more on the way!  It has deposits, and Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that these branches have been established in areas where there was no banking facility, have been of incalculable help and assistance to people living in remote rural areas.  It has deposits totalling a shade under R900 million.  It has seen a growth in the last two successive years of 40% and 30% respectively.  It has nearly a million clients and 105,000 savings accounts.

Mr Speaker, the KFC, its Chairman, Chief Executive Officers, directors and staff, have brought about a remarkable success story to our Province, which is the envy of every province in the Republic of South Africa and indeed is regarded as a role model to be followed elsewhere in the country.

In 1991, the KwaZulu Finance Corporation took the initiative to form the KMI, which is a very successful international player in attracting foreign direct investment into our Province, with a record in its field, the envy of all other provinces and is once again regarded as a role model.

What a success story, and a big part of that success, Mr Speaker, has been the lack of political interference in the running of the KwaZulu Finance Corporation.  The Bill before you today ensures that that situation will continue into the future.

Mr Speaker, today, in this House, we are clearing the way for the KFC to step forward with pride and excitement into its future, to begin the next phase of its amazing history and to write more history.  I am proud to support the KwaZulu-Natal Ithala Development Finance Corporation Bill which is before us today.

Finally, sir, I want to pay tribute to the process that was set up with Minister Zuma and Dr Marius Spies.  The workshops, the Steering Committee and the Task Groups, which over the last three years have laboured with what I would like to think, great success, in producing a Bill which will allow the organisation to go forward and carry on with the success story for the people in this Province.  I would like to thank the Minister and Dr Spies for the opportunity to be a part of this history-making event before us today.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I now call upon hon member Mr Mabuyakhulu.  You have 14 minutes to speak.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Ngiyabonga Baba Somlomo.  Okokuqala nje ngifisa ukubongela uMhlonishwa uNxamalala noMnyango wakhe ekuwubekeni phambi kwaleNdlu yesiShayamthetho, umthethosivivinywa obaluleke njengalo.

Okokuqala nje kuyiqiniso ukuthi sesihambe isikhathi eside selokhu yaqala sabalelwe uHulumeni waKwaZulu-Natali ngo-1994, lakhona sikhuluma njalo umasihlangene sibhekane nokwabiwa kwezimali ukuthi asiphuthumise indaba yokuthi silethe uguquko enhlanganweni lena u-KFC.

Usemqokake lomthethosivivinywa ophambi kwethu namhlanje. Ubumqoka bawo Baba Somlomo, kusukela ekuthenini siyazi njengoba ekhulumile uMhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe ophethe lomnyango ukuthi kube nemibono eminingi yokusebenza kwenhlangano lena u-KFC.

Isebenze kahle kwakhona lapho bekhala khona, kodwa ngaphezu kwakho konke lokho kuke kwatholakala futhi ukuthi inkinga enkulu ebhekene nayo igunya layo langokomthetho ebelenza ukuthi lingaphumeleli ekwenzeni imisebenzi yawo ebihlelelwe ukuba iwenze ngendlela efanelekileyo.

Okuyikona okukhulu Baba Somlomo, ukuthi lomthethosivivinyo oletha uguquko uwumthethosivivinyo okuzothi uma usuphasile usungumthetho.  Sinethemba lokuthi phezu kwenzinto okuzona ezizodinga ukuba zibhekelelwe kakhulu eyokuqala nje ile:- okuzodinga ukuba kubekwe phambili lezonhlelo ezizokwenza ukuthi lusheshe lubonakale uguquko ezimpilweni zabantu bakulesiSifunda saKwaZulu-Natali.

Lokho kuyahambisana nosomqulu lo uMhlonishwa ophethe loMnyango akade ekhuluma ngawo ogunyaza ukuthi ibhodi entsha izobe ibekiwe ibhekele lezonhlelo ezizoba nomthelela ozokwazi ukubonakala kalula ekwenzeni kwawo uguquko ezimpilweni zabantu abaningi kulesiSifunda.

Ngaphezu kwalokhu Baba Somlomo, okunye okuyikona okusemqoka ukuthi ibhodi entsha lena uma isibekiwe okuzodinga ukuthi isibhekele kakhulu isimo esimayelana nokuthi inhlangano lena entsha Ithala ikwazi ukuzimela ngokwezezimali.

Ikwazi ukusebenza ingathembele ukuthi kukhona ezobuye ikuthole emthombeni kaHulumeni.  Njengoba sazi phela ukuthi isabelo sezimali esinaso asanele ukufeza yonke imisebenzi yentuthuko yomphakathi.

Ngakho-ke siyakholelwa ukuthi lebhodi ezobe isibekiwe eminye yemisebenzi yawo ukuba isinikeze thina njengeSishayamthetho kanye nezinhlaka zesiShayamthetho uhlelo olucacile ukuthi kuzokwenziwa kanjani ukuthi Ithala ikwazi ukuzimela ngokwezezimali inganciki kuHulumeni.

Okunye engicabanga ukuthi kubalulekile ukuthi Ithala njengenhlangano ezobe isisebenza ingasangqindi amandla, isisebenza ngaphansi kwesimo esisha lapho sekunamathuba khona amasha.

Sizodinga futhi nokubona ezinhlalweni zokuphatha kwalo Ithala.  Sibona abantu bebala bekhuphuka kuwona wonke amazinga bekwazi ukuphatha babesezihlalweni zokuphatha.

Ikakhulukazi laba ababekade vele bencishwe amathuba ngaphambili, benikezwa lawomathuba okuba babesezikhundleni zokuphatha.  Loluguquko esidinga ukuba silibone lwenzeka. 

Ibhodi entsha silindele ukuthi uma isikhethiwe ibe nohlelo futhi nalapho ezokwazi ukulibeka kithina njengeshayamthetho, njengoHulumeni ukuthi hlelo luni abanalo lokuqinisekisa ukuthi ngempela uguquko lapho kulesosigaba nakhona luyenzeka.

Phezu kwalawomazwi Baba Somlomo, ngifisa ukuba ngithi siyawamukela lomthetho, siwusekela ngaphezu kokuthi sikholwe ukuthi uzokwenza ubungcono kodwa uma kuwukuthi kukhona lapho kusala khona, uguquko into engamiyo, luhlale lwenzeka ngasosonke isikhathi.  Baba Somlomo.

TRANSLATION:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, firstly I want to praise the hon Nxamalala and his Department for putting before this Legislature such an important Bill.  Firstly, the truth is, it has been a long time since the advent of the Government of KwaZulu-Natal in 1994.  

Whenever dealing with budget allocations, we have always talked and said that we must make haste the matter of transforming the Corporation, the KFC.  Therefore, this Bill that is before us is most important.  Its importance, Mr Speaker, stems from the fact that we know, as the hon Minister in charge of this Department has said, there have been many views regarding the functioning of the KFC.  It worked well.  

There were areas of complaint, but above all that, it was also discovered that the major problem facing it was its legal authority, which made it unsuccessful in properly discharging its assigned duties.

What is important, Mr Speaker, is that this Bill will bring about transformation, once it passes and becomes law.  We hope that among the things it contains, that will require a great deal of attention, the first one is that there will be a need to put forward programmes that will quickly create visible change in the lives of the people of this Province of KwaZulu-Natal.

This is in line with the document that the hon Minister in charge of this Department was talking about, which authorises the Board that will be put in place, to cater for the programmes which will have a readily visible impact in creating change in the lives of many people in this region.

Beyond that, Mr Speaker, what is also important is that the new Board, once it is put in place, will need to pay close attention to a situation regarding financial independence of the new Ithala Corporation.  It must be able to function on its own, without expecting that there will be anything else it will receive from government resources, as we all know that the budget we have is not sufficient to fulfil all the developmental functions for the public.

Therefore, we believe that some of the functions of the Board that will be in place, would be to provide us, as the Legislature, and structures of the Legislature, a clear programme on what will be done, so that Ithala will be able to be financially independent and not lean on the government.

Something else I think is important is that Ithala, as a corporation, will be working freely, without limitations of power and working under new circumstances where there are new opportunities.  We will need to observe the governing structures of Ithala.  We will have to see people of colour rising in all levels and being able to manage in management seats, particularly those people who were previously disadvantaged have to be given opportunities to be in management positions.  This is the transformation we need to see taking place.

From the new Board, once it has been selected, we expect it will also have a programme, that it will be able to place before us, as the Legislature, as government, on how it will ensure that true transformation at that level also takes place.

With those words, Mr Speaker, I wish to say that we accept this law on the grounds that we believe it will bring about improvement.  If there is any place that is lacking, transformation is something continuous, it happens all the time, Mr Speaker.  T/E

THE SPEAKER:  Siyabonga elungeni elihloniphekileyo.  Sengizonikeza ilunga elihloniphekileyo uMnumzane u-Edwards ozokhuluma imizuzu eyisithupha kuphela. [We are grateful to the hon member.  I am now going to give the opportunity to the hon member Mr Edwards, who will speak for only six minutes].

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, the Bill before us is a very important measure, hopefully to ensure the continued existence of the KwaZulu Finance Investment Corporation into the future.  An institution that has played a major role since 1979 to assist in promoting economic development in the foremost self-governing territory of KwaZulu.  That was a success story, in other undeveloped, or under-developed areas of our Province.

In essence, Mr Speaker, the Bill in transformation is a change of name and extends powers and objects to the enhancement of its development function.  It is an undeniable fact that the KwaZulu Finance Investment Corporation has been an unqualified success in the development of small business and creation of jobs.  The hon Mr Hamilton referred to that as did the Minister before him.

Over the past 20 years in particular, while development of small business in the formal sector has been severely curtailed because of the reluctance of banks and financiers to understand the need to invest risk capital in the future of our rural people.

While some R34 million is allocated in the Budget tabled today to enhance the equity capital of the KwaZulu Finance Corporation and its successor, the Ithala Development Finance Corporation, the Corporation generates substantial further working capital itself to achieve its objects.

It is important to note that in the combined sectors of small, medium and micro enterprise, industry, commerce, tourism and agriculture, that the KFC in 1997/98, created some 9,700 employment opportunities and supported many businesses.  This is in spite of a national recession where some 550,000 jobs have been lost or shed in the past five years under ANC rule.

The Ithala Savings Network and the Ithala Bank have played a most important role in facilitating business opportunities, in giving loans where the other banks would not give.  Indeed, the KFC has over the period of its existence, displayed an unwavering commitment to the broad socio-economic development of our Province.

The Executive Director, Dr Marius Spies, indeed the "spear" of the people, and the board of directors, deserve the highest praise for the wonderful work done and the NNP trust that the new board to be appointed in terms of the Act, display the same commitment and also are able to ensure that Dr Spies, if available, be included in this most successful team.

The Bill, in its aim of transformation has some welcome provisions.  These include provision for the Corporation to be funded by way of public or private share capital, loans and grants and if approved in terms of the Banks Act by way of deposits raised from the public.

Initially, the Provincial Government will continue to be the Corporation's sole shareholder.  But I trust, Mr Speaker, there will be no stalling in attracting institutional and public investors to ensure that there is a commitment by big business.  It is time they did it, to the essential development role required to make the Corporation the success it should be, and to further expedite the ability to gear the capital of the Corporation to unlock the substantial assets build-up with an estimated value of some R2 billion and grow this development arm to its true potential.

Mr Speaker, the Department, the Chairman of the Portfolio Committee and its members, and the Legal Drafting Team, I think must also be congratulated on the hard work done by way of many amendments suggested, to eventually place this legislation before us today.  With that, the National Party supports the Bill.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Mr Speaker, can I rise on a point of order?

THE SPEAKER:  Yes, hon member.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Mr Speaker, there are two minor amendments which we have agreed on that I should put forward.  Unfortunately I forgot to put them forward.  I do not know whether I can crave your indulgence to do that.  All the parties have unanimously agreed to these amendments.

THE SPEAKER:  Can we not allow the hon member Mr Edwards, to complete his speech, then I will give you a chance to do that.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  He has finished, that is why I am rising.

THE SPEAKER:  He has finished already?  Okay, thank you.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Mr Speaker, I am rising to put forward these two amendments in Section 15.3 and Section 15.4.  The new amendments read as follows:  Section 15.3 reads that:

	Whenever it is necessary for the Board to appoint an Executive Director, it must advertise the position publicly, interview suitable candidates and prepare a short list of not less than two and not more than four recommended candidates.

Section 15.4 reads:

	The Board has the power to appoint an Executive Director, in consultation with the Minister, provided that if the Board and the Minister fail to reach agreement within a reasonable time on the appointment of any of the Board's recommended candidates, and if,

	(a)	The Government holds the majority of the shares both recommendations must be referred to the Premier-in-Cabinet, whose decisions will be final;  or

	(b)	Shareholders other than the Government, either singularly or jointly, hold the majority of the shares.  The final decision lies with the Board.

Those are the amendments that have been agreed to.  Thank you.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Mr Speaker, I would like to second that amendment and I may add that the Minister, the director and members of the parties concerned, caucused outside and agreed that this was an improvement to the Bill.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I hope that the hon member will table there amendments.  Let us move on.

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  Sorry, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Yes, Mr Edwards?

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  Just on a point of order, while the Committee has agreed, I believe it must be tabled in writing to us, because we were told of the amendments verbally, we are not quite sure what Mr Mabuyakhulu has said, whether we agree with each of the amendments, so they must be tabled before us, before we can approve of that.

THE SPEAKER:  That is what I said, Mr Edwards, that the amendments need to be tabled.  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Nel.  You have got five minutes.

MR W U NEL:  Sorry, Mr Speaker, it seems the debate is collapsing and so did my microphone.  Mr Speaker, it is a happy day indeed that we can be here today to debate and pass the Ithala Development Finance Corporation Bill.  We would like to record that in our view politics and bickering, misdirected in fact in this instance at the Bill, rather than at the policy underlying the execution of the Bill, has delayed the passing of this Bill far too long.  It is an example of how politicians, through misdirected interference, cause frustration and even impact adversely on delivery to the very people that we are put here to try and assist.  But we rejoice that at last this critical, or crucial Bill, is being delivered after such a troubled political confinement.

The hon Minister remarked earlier that the KwaZulu Development Finance Corporation was the most successful Provincial Development Corporation in the country.  My party would wholeheartedly endorse that compliment, and with pride.  From humble beginnings, and often pressured by political policy directives externally, directing where investments should be made, beset by political undercurrents, violence and particularly violence and destruction affecting its clients and therefore the ability to recover loans and advances that it had made in the process of investing in this Province of ours, it nevertheless succeeded in building an asset base of around R1,9 billion, R800m's worth of property and about R930m's worth of advances to clients.  It has created tens of thousands of jobs, many business opportunities, housing opportunities and other services, and lately, also mobilised capital through Ithala Bank, which not only mobilises capital, I must add, but also inculcated a culture of saving and in fact investing your money in interest bearing savings which drew a large sector of our population, previously not properly serviced in this respect, into economic participation in a modern way.  We congratulate them on what they have done in the past to promote development and economic growth in our Province.

In support also of the hon Minister's compliments and congratulations to the incumbent CEO, Dr Spies, we would also like to say, well done.  He has always been hard-working, competent, extremely controversial, often, I might say with respect, abrasive and adversarial, but certainly noticed and impressive.

I would like to revert to the Bill itself.  Thankfully, as often happens, after a lot of political bickering and grand standing by members and parties in this House - most of that grand standing, misdirected, as I said earlier, at the structure of the institution that is to promote development in the Province, rather than at the underlying policies - after all this bickering, thankfully we knuckled down in the Committee and co-operated, and produced what I certainly would consider, a very good Bill.  It is always satisfying to work with a group of colleagues when the goal becomes the common one of producing good legislation, which after all is our primary function in this House.

After many improvements we have produced what is on the table today and even at the late stage of our Committee work, there were improvements which were made, which I think are significant.  One was an amendment to control the ability of the Corporation to raise loans, because obviously, with a Government Corporation such as this, if there is an unlimited power to raise money and get into trouble, eventually though it is a corporate entity, government does get sucked into the liability of trying to solve the mess.  So one would like some overall control of the scope of borrowing facilities and powers.

The second one was that of facilitating policy directives, which of course underlies the whole philosophy of this Corporation and how it is going to set about investing and uplifting and creating growth opportunities in our Province.

There is also of course the important provision for external shareholders, even at the primary level in the corporation.  That was not an insertion by the Committee, but certainly is a valuable provision in this current Bill.

Then, very strict references to the fiduciary duties of members of the Board, the directors, which I think is important, because often one sees government institutions perhaps not run as efficiently and effectively as they should be, and this certainly would place an added duty on directors to really consider carefully how they participate and how they lead this, what is now a giant Provincial Development Corporation.  With those words we support the Bill.  I thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  The member's time is up.  Ngizocela ilungu elihloniphekileyo uMrs Downs onamaminithi amabili nje kuphela. [I am going to call upon the hon member Mrs Downs who only has two minutes].

MRS J M DOWNS:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  It is a great pleasure to rise for once to join in my congratulations in the success story that the KFC has been.  I would like to echo the words of the Minister where he said this has largely been due to the absence of political interference.  With having said that, I would like to congratulate Dr Spies on his method of running the whole Corporation and hope that he inculcates possibly some of his abrasiveness and difficulty to the new members, because that is probably what prevented the political interference that we talk about.

To have such a Development Corporation in this Province, that has created so many jobs, can only be a success story to us.  We really trust that the new Board will not only continue with the good work, but will develop it and actually expand it, so that we can become the foremost province in economic activity, and the only way to do that is to actually focus on the small and micro business enterprises which everybody else leaves out of their calculations.

The second area where I think that this entity has had a great success is rolling out banking services into the rural sector.  I hope that that will really continue, that we will have banking services in all of the deep rural areas that are accessible to all of our people.  It is one of the things that is a great need still, even with the work that the Ithala banking part of it has done.  Well done on that.

With those few words, I would just like to add our agreement and support of the Bill and congratulations.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Sengicela ilunga elihloniphekileyo uMhlonishwa wezemisebenzi uNgqongqoshe uMtetwa, uzokhuluma imizuzu emihlanu.  [Thank you.  I now ask the hon member, the hon Minister of Works, Minister Mtetwa, who will speak for five minutes].

REV C J MTETWA: (Minister of Public Works):  Somlomo Baba, ngithokoza kakhulu ukuba ungiphe lelithuba noma lilifushane, umntomdala kangaka umnike imizuzu emihlanu.

Kodwa-ke nokho ngoba ngizokhuluma nje, ngikhuluma odabeni olubaluleke kakhulu lapha kulomthetho esikhuluma ngawo kukhona izikhiye zalokuhlangana kwethu layindlini.  Emagameni amane, esontweni ngikholwa emagameni amathathu.

Lapha emagameni amane ngifisa sizwe kahle igama elithi-Development Finance Corporation Investment lezinto ziphelele kulomthetho zonke.  Lokhu kuphelelisa ukuhlangana kwethu layindlini.

Noma ngesinye isikhathi kuye kudabukise.  Ungivumele kancane nje Somlomo ngike ngibabhedele kancane nje ngizogcina namhlanje.  Ngoba phela mina ngakhulela esithenjini, uyabona esithenjini kukhona ukuthi umuntu ake asukele ekuseni lize liyoshona ethi uyakhuluma epikla.

Ukulalele layindlini kuthiwa kuyakhulunywa kupiklwa.  Manje ngithi uma sibhekela ngalezinto engathi umpiklo awubeseceleni ezingqondweni zethu kungene lokhu.

I-development uma bekungadivelophwa thina lapha ema-upstairs bekuyosiza ukuba sikwazi ukudivelopha lelizwe. [UHLEKO]  Uyabona Dumsani Makhaye, lalela weMakhaye ngiqondene nani nina abampisholo.

Uyabona njengoba uHulumeni wabampisholo, angikhathali noma ngabe iliphi iqembu elibusayo kodwa uma lehlulekile kwehluleke wonke umuntu ompisholo okhona lapha emhlabeni.  Manje umsindo lo kufanele siwenze lena ebhaleni ngoba sisendlini ehloniphekile.  Lapha uyabona nibobuza lapha ko-United Party.  [UHLEKO]

Ngibekezeleleni ngiyaqeda khona manje isikhathi sami sifushane bengizokhuluma.  Uyabona laba abamhlophe abekho abantu uNkulunkulu ake wabahlonipha wabanika ulwazi lonke olukhona emhlabeni, ayikho into abangakwazi ukuyenza ngezandla nangezingqondo zabo.  Kodwa wayesebancisha ukuhlakanipha.  [UHLEKO]

Uyabona phela ukuba wayebaphe nokuhlakanipha ngabe abahlulekanga ukuphatha lelizwe.  Manje into eyenza ukuba bahluleke ukuthi uNkulunkulu emfihlakalweni yakhe wabafihlela ukuhlakanipha.  Ulwazi wabanika lonke olukhona.

Thina elwazini, asikakakwazi nokukhanda isondo lebhayisikile.  Kodwa ukuhlakanipha siyabehlula.  Manje ngithi mina kufuneka ukuba sizwane kahle babuye nalolulwazi kuhlalwe lapha phansi silethe ukuhlakanipha kuhlanganiswe lezinto siyoliphatha lelizwe.

Nina ngoba niyizingane nithi i-democracy, i-democracy, behluleke nayo yafika nabo intanta la phezulu.  Kufuneka ukuba nifunde ukuhlakanipha kukaNkulunkulu ikhona nizokwazi ukuthuthukisa izwe leli nesizwe sethu.  Sibe isizwe esiphilayo, lokhu okuthiwa i-Rainbow Nation kube iyo ngempela. 

Kodwa uma nihamba kanje nizodala i-Angola ngiyanitshela.  Manje ngithi kufuneka ukuthi umthetho onjengalo iwona wodwa umthetho wentuthuko eninawo wokuthuthukisa izwe uqobo ilo, okufuneke niphume nawo layindlini, uhlale unkenteza njalo ezingqondweni zethu ukuthi ngalomthetho njengoba inhloso yethu nesikukhethelwe ukuba sithuthukise lelizwe, sizokwenzenjani.

Singaphumi lapha silingise abamhlophe.  Uyazi uNkulunkulu wabapha ulwazi bakhanda izindiza, bakhanda imikhumbi, bakhanda izibhamu, nemali ikubo, nenyama yakubo, nempuphu ikubo, wabanika thina sabasebenzela mahala, behluleka.  [UHLEKO]

Aningitshele yini ababeyiswele, babengaswele lutho.  Kodwa behluleka ngoba abazanga ukuthi baswele into eyodwa ukuhlakanipha kuphela.  Thina sahlala nokhiye-ke babesathe sabona ukuthi onkabi laba bazosidubula basibulale babesathe sathi "Yes Baas".  [UHLEKO]

Bagxuma bashona la sathi "Yes Baas".  Sazi ukuthi ngoba uNkulunkulu usaphila ngelinye ilanga uyophendula.  Manje uma sizokhohlwa nathi silibale, silibalwe ukukhipha izisu sixabane noNkulunkulu uzosilahla ngelinye ilanga asilingise bona, bhasobhani.

Nansi into okufuneka ukuba siyibambe sithuthukise izwe lethu, sithuthukise ama-upstairs.  Uma sikhuluma sikhulume singapikli.  Ngiyabonga Somlomo.  [KUSHAWA IZANDLA]

TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, I am very pleased that you have given me this opportunity, even though it is brief.  You give such an elderly person five minutes?  But then, I will just speak on such a very important matter.  In the law we are discussing lies the key for our meeting in this House, in four words.  In church I believe in three words.  In these four words, I wish for us to hear clearly the words Development, Finance, Corporation and Investment.  These things are all present in this law.  This completes our meeting in this House.

Although sometimes it is saddening, allow me, just briefly, Mr Speaker, to just speak foolishly to them, today will be the last time.  I grew up in a polygamous home.  You see, in a home where there is a plurality of wives.  It happens that a person just starts speaking from morning until sunset, just talking defiantly and telling others off.  

In this House you sometimes listen when people are said to be speaking, yet they are just being defiant and telling others off.  Now I am saying, when we take care of these things, it would be better to put aside defiance and telling others off, and that this enter our minds.

Regarding development, if we could be developed here, upstairs, it would help us in being able to develop this country.  [LAUGHTER]  You see, Dumisani Makhaye, listen, Makhaye, I am directing this to you, you Africans.  You see, as a government of Africans, I do not care which party is governing, but if it fails, every existing African person in this world has failed.  Now we should make this noise over there at the bar, not here, because this is an hon House.

You see, here you must ask the United Party.  [LAUGHTER]  Bear with me, I will soon be finished, my time is short, I would have spoken.  You see, these whites, there is no group of people that God respected and gave all knowledge existing in this world.  

There is nothing they cannot do with their hands and minds, but he deprived them of wisdom.  [LAUGHTER]  You see, if He had also given them wisdom, they would not have failed to govern this country.  Now what caused their failure is that God, in his mystery, hid wisdom from them.  He gave them all existing knowledge.

Us, as far as knowledge is concerned, we are still unable even to repair a bicycle wheel, but as far as wisdom is concerned, we defeat them.  Now I am saying, we must understand each other well.  They must bring this knowledge and we must bring wisdom, sit down here and combine these things.  In that way we will be able to govern this country.

Because you are young, you are saying, "Democracy, democracy".  They failed, despite it.  They brought it with them, floating above their heads.  You must learn the wisdom of God, so that you will be able to develop this country and our nation, so that we can be a healthy nation, and be a true Rainbow Nation.  But if you carry on this way, you will create an Angola, I am telling you.

Now I am saying, a law such as this, is the only law you have for the direct development of the country.  You must take it with you when you leave this House, for it to always resonate in your minds, and ask what we are going to do with this law, as our aim and the reason we were brought here is to develop this country.

We should not get out of here emulating whites.  You know, God gave them knowledge.  They repair aeroplanes, they repair ships, they repair guns, even the money is with them, the meat is with them, mealie meal is with them, He gave us to them to work for them without pay.  They failed.  [LAUGHTER]  

Tell me, what were they lacking?  They were not lacking anything, yet they failed because they did not know that they were in need of one thing, wisdom alone.  We remained with the key.  Whatever they said or did, we realised they would shoot and kill us.  Whatever they said or did, we said, "Yes, Boss".  [LAUGHTER]  They said jumped from here to there, we said, "Yes, Boss".  We knew that because God was still alive, one day, one day He would respond.  Now, if we too, are going to forget and be taken up by abortions and be in conflict with God, he will forsake us one day, just like them.  Be careful.

This is what we have to get to grips with, developing our country, developing upstairs.  When we speak, let us not speak defiantly, telling others off.  Thank you, Speaker.  [APPLAUSE]  T/E

THE SPEAKER:  Cha, order please, kuvela isiko elisha lapha lokushaya izandla, ngicabanga ukuthi isiko elisha.  Bengizothi mina lelisiko lizoba ingozi, isiko elihle lokubonga ileli elithi "Hear, Hear" ukushaya izandla sike silibone lena ayilana KwaZulu-Natali.

Angiqhubeke, sengizocela ilunga elihloniphekileyo uBaba uMkhwanazi uzokhuluma imizuzu emibili.

TRANSLATION:  No, order, please!  There is a new custom emerging, that of clapping hands.  I think it is a new custom.  I would say this custom will be dangerous.  A good custom of expressing gratitude is that which says, "Hear!  Hear!".  Clapping hands, we sometimes see it over there, not here in KwaZulu-Natal.

Let me continue.  I am now going to call upon the hon member Mr Mkhwanazi.  He will speak for two minutes.  T/E

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.  I am on record, on several previous occasions where I praised the erstwhile KFC and I did it specifically because I was biased.  The KFC made it possible for me to have a roof over my head after I had been in exile for 31 years and no other finance corporation would give me money to have that house.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  I really have high respect for Dr Spies, because at the time he was in charge.  I therefore have no option, on behalf of myself, but to support this Bill.

I also want to go further to say that the KFC was the only finance organisation that listened to the needs of the down-trodden African people when nobody else would give them any support.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  I do appreciate the fact that due to the violence and other things that happened, many of our people were not able to pay back what they owed KFC, but with the Bill which we passed here the other day, we hope that the KFC will be compensated.

I am also very happy that we now have, through this Bill, a real, legitimate, legal Finance Corporation that is going to compete very well with other banks in the name of Ithala, rather than the KFC which relied on the Government.  What also pleases me is that in the Minister's memorandum, the words that KFC will continue to nurse, only it must change the name and the mandate.  We must thank Dr Spies, not because he is here, but for giving us enough time, and giving us notice that he will be hanging up his gloves in order for the new Board to prepare itself to take over.  I therefore support the Bill.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Rehman.

MR M F REHMAN:  Mr Speaker, will the last speaker take a question, please?

THE SPEAKER:  Unfortunately he has completed his speech.  I will now call upon the hon Minister, Mr Zuma, to reply to the debate.

MR J G ZUMA: (Minister of Economic Affairs and Tourism):  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker and the hon House.  The Bill before this House for approval today, as the speakers have indicated, represents the culmination of a long process in which a number of people participated.

*	The Board of the KFC supported this process, and of course it had also looked at itself as the new dispensation came into existence.

*	Cabinet approved the establishment of the Provincial Development Finance Corporation (PDFC) Steering Committee and approved the process and the draft Bill.

*	The PDFC Steering Committee managed the transformation process and established a Professional Resource Team which mobilised resources and made recommendations to the PDFC Steering Committee.

*	A legal Drafting Team assisted in preparing the strategic guide memorandum that formed the basis of the draft Bill that gave rise to the present Bill.

*	Various stakeholders were consulted and apprised of progress at various occasions and made valuable contributions.

*	The Portfolio Committee for Economic Affairs and Tourism, as part of the legislative process, considered, and made improvements on the Bill which was debated by this House this afternoon.  Speakers representing the various parties have shown their degree of support for this Bill which indicated an impressive degree of consensus as to the need for a PDFC with a new mission and mandate.

In concluding my remarks, Mr Speaker, I thank all the speakers for the creative manner in which they have debated this Bill.  This is itself a vindication of the process we followed in pursuing the transformation of the KFC.  It will now be incumbent on the new Board of the Ithala Development Finance Corporation to finalise the transformation of our PDFC.  A special word of thanks to the outgoing Board of the KFC for the support I have received from them in transforming the KFC and its reconstitution as Ithala Development Finance Corporation.

Mr Speaker, I am sure your House today was very considerate in economising on time in terms of the debate, and one of the happy occasions where the agreement has been obvious and pleasing indeed.  I would like to thank every one who has participated in this Bill to become the Act that will govern our development in the Province.  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  We have come to the end of our debate.  I will now put the motion before the House regarding the amendments of Section 15.3 and Section 15.4 of the KZN Ithala Development Finance Corporation Bill.

AMENDMENT TO THE KZN ITHALA DEVELOPMENT FINANCE CORPORATION BILL  AGREED TO.

THE SPEAKER:  Now I put the question before the House regarding the Ithala Development Finance Corporation Bill.

KWAZULU-NATAL ITHALA DEVELOPMENT FINANCE CORPORATION BILL  -  PASSED

THE SPEAKER:  I ask the Secretary to read the Bill.

THE SECRETARY:  KwaZulu-Natal Ithala Development Finance Corporation Act, 1999.

THE SPEAKER:  Sesizodlulela ku-item 8.4.  [Now we come to item 8.4].

8.4	KWAZULU-NATAL COMMISSIONS BILL

THE SPEAKER:  I have been told that we will not discuss the KZN Commissions Bill today.  Therefore this Bill will be discussed at the next sitting of the House.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, could I rise on a point of order.  Could you indicate to us under what Rule this Bill is not going to be proceeded with today?  Is it Rule 114, which, if I may read:

	The Member in charge of a bill may withdraw the bill at any time before the Plenary Stage thereof has been disposed of.

Because I understand that if the Bill is being withdrawn, then the Bill has to be recommitted to the Portfolio Committee for reconsideration.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Chief Whip?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, there is no Rule anywhere that says that the House has to dispose of all the orders of the day and all you simply say is, the Bill is not withdrawn, Mr Speaker, it stands over until the next sitting of this House.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Mrs Cronje?

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, if the Bill is then not withdrawn, and that seems to be the indication, may we know why we are not completing the business on the Order Paper, because we certainly do have time, it is only twenty past three now.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I do not suppose we should begrudge the hon Whip playing a bit of politics here.  We have already discussed this, you will know, at some length last night, Mr Speaker, and there is also some acrimony in the debates where you were advised, Mr Speaker, that a Cabinet meeting had been called for 15:30 this afternoon, and it was precisely for that reason that we attempted to cut the speaking time of the various speakers today and you will have noticed in the last debate that is precisely what we did.  Mr Speaker, this matter has been discussed at length.  I do not know why you need to explain why the issue is not being discussed, and why the House is adjourning early.  In terms of our Rules, in particular Rule 10, you can determine the sitting days and the times.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I am sorry, I cannot let this statement go unchallenged.  This matter of taking the Commissions Bill off the Order Paper was not discussed at all last night, never mind at length.  I was told approximately five minutes before lunch today, that we would not proceed with it.  I just want to put the record straight.  There was no discussion whatsoever on withdrawing the Commissions Bill last night, or even early this morning, only approximately five minutes before lunch.

THE SPEAKER:  I am sorry, after lunch I was approached by the Chief Whip and also Mrs Cronje, regarding this issue, that Item 8.4 will stand over.  So I do not know what you are saying, because I think my Deputy was ....

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I am actually quite astounded.  I did approach you to ask you whether you would allow Dr Sutcliffe to say goodbye to the House.

THE SPEAKER:  You further mentioned Item 8.4.  You cannot say, I, because you were not there.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I deny it categorically.  I deny it categorically.

THE SPEAKER:  Any way, I do not think that we need to debate this, but my ruling regarding 8.4 is that - I would like to make a ruling.

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  A point of order first.  I just want to state that from the National Party's point of view, that we also were not told that this would be off the Order Paper.  Our members have prepared to be here today, they stayed this afternoon.  I just wish to place on record about our concern that this has been removed from the Orders of the Day by yourself and deferred for reasons unknown to us.

THE SPEAKER:  I need to make a ruling now.  The item on the Order Paper stands over until the next sitting of the House.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Before that, I will now - yes, hon Chief Whip?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I stand to crave your indulgence on a matter that has come to my attention during the course of the day.  This is a matter which, Mr Speaker, I intended to bring to you as a matter of public importance before the closing of today's sitting, but it is of such a nature, that I wish to give notice of a motion now.  If that is in order, could I then proceed?

Mr Speaker, I wish to move on the next sitting day of this House that:

	This House, noting with great concern, that there are rumours that certain political parties intend boycotting the Parliamentary Sitting on Thursday 25 February 1999;  and,

	NOTING FURTHERMORE:

	The provisions of Rule 10 (1), where the Speaker has the exclusive power to determine the days on which the House conducts its business, and believing that if such action takes place, this is nothing but deliberate political sabotage of the KZN Parliament in defiance of the position of Speaker;

	THEREFORE RESOLVES:

	That while it may be necessary for individuals to be absent from the House for various reasons, such a step by political parties is unacceptable, and should it occur, these parties should be severely censured for their deliberate, obstructive, non-co-operative attitude to the workings of this Legislature.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, please!  Order!  The hon member Mr Burrows?

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, I rise and request the hon the Chief Whip of the IFP to raise this as a motion under 104(g), as a motion without notice, and let us debate the matter immediately.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Yes, Mr Chief Whip?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, we have got plenty of time to debate the motion tomorrow, I see no reason to waste the time now.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order, please!  Order, Mr Cele.  Since we have other business, I understand that the Cabinet will meet immediately after the session and the Executive Board will meet immediately after the session, and since we do have a sitting tomorrow, as all members have received their notices of the meeting, the matter will be discussed tomorrow.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  I would like to announce that yesterday I received a letter of resignation from the hon member Dr Mike Sutcliffe.  His resignation is with effect from 28 February 1999.  I therefore give this opportunity to the hon member to present us with his farewell speech.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I did approach you just before the afternoon session to ask you whether you will allow it in terms of Rule 74 (2) and you kindly agreed to do that.  Unfortunately, and I have not had an opportunity to speak to you about it because you were in the Chair, due to urgent personal business, Dr Sutcliffe had to leave suddenly and he is not available.  I thank you for the opportunity and on behalf of the ANC, we will certainly miss Dr Sutcliffe, he has been a very valuable member of our caucus, I want to believe a very valuable and constructive member of this House and we wish him well in his new venture.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I would like to make this announcement.  All members of the Parliamentary Executive Board are reminded that there will be a meeting of the Board immediately after the House adjourns.  The meeting will take place at Mnyamana Conference Room here in Ulundi.

	HOUSE ADJOURNED AT 15:30 UNTIL
	10:00 ON THURSDAY, 25 FEBRUARY 1999

	DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF
	KWAZULU-NATAL PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURE

	SIXTH SESSION
	SECOND SITTING - THIRD SITTING DAY
	THURSDAY, 25 FEBRUARY 1999

THE HOUSE MET AT 10:15 IN THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER ULUNDI.  THE SPEAKER TOOK THE CHAIR AND READ THE PRAYER.

THE SPEAKER:

2.	OBITUARIES AND OTHER CEREMONIAL MATTERS

3.	ADMINISTRATION OF OATHS OR AFFIRMATION

THE SPEAKER:  Please, could someone organise that members receive the Order Papers.  Thank you.

4.	ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER

THE SPEAKER:  Malunga ahloniphekileyo ngifisa ukusho ukuthi lapha izolo ntambama emva kokuguqa kweNdlu, ngithole incwadi engibhalelwe yona amaqembu ezombusazwe okuyi-ACDP, PAC, National Party, ANC, Democratic Party ebicela ibika ukuthi amalunga lawa ahloniphekileyo awezukubabikho namhlanje.

Ngiyafisa ukusho ukuthi ngibonge kulamalunga akhona engiwabonayo abanye bawo babhale lezincwadi.  Ngisho ukuthi ngokwe-rule 17 of rule of procedure achaza ngokungabibikho kwamalunga le-rule ibeka ukuthi ilunga uma - alikhulumi ngeqembu likhuluma ngelunga, ngifisa kucace la uma kukhona izixoliso kungakuhle kube izixoliso ezenziwa ilunga ayi amaqembu.

Okwesibili engifisa ukukuchaza lapha ukuthi u-rule 10 kuma-rules of procedure ukubeka kucace ukuthi ubani onelungelo lokunquma ngokuhlala kwePhalamende, nangesikhathi iPhalamende lingahlala.

U-rule 80 uchaza ngendlela umsebenzi weNdlu ongenziwa ngayo, wenziwa obani.  Ngakhoke ngifisa kucace ukuthi ngebhadi elikhulu lencwadi ifike vele sengisenzile isinqumo sokuthi iNdlu izohlala namhlanje njengoba ihleli.

Ngithanda ukudabuka ukuthi amalunga noma amaqembu ezombusazwe aphathe leNdlu ngalendlela ayiphathe ngayo.  Ngisho ukuthi kuyoba kubi kubantu esibaholayo, nabantu ababheke okuthize kithina ukuba amaqembu ezombusazwe aziphathe ngalendlela.

Ngicabanga ukuthi ilunga nelunga liqashiwe ukuba lisebenzele isizwe ngaleyondlela kungakuhle lapho ukuthi amalunga akuqonde lokhu azi ukuthi okufika kuqala ukusebenzela isizwe.  Bese emva kwalokho abese ebuka ukuthi amaqembu abo athini.

Kuyangihluphake uma amalunga ezombusazwe noma amaqembu ezombusazwe ezokwenza lokhu okuthiwa i-political boycott yePhalamende kuyoba ingozi enkulu lokho.  Ngithi angikusho lokhu ngoba kuyangihlupha ukuba kwenzelokhu. 

Ngithanda ukudlulisa ukuthi angazi noma lencwadi ibhalwe ngaphambi kokuba ngithathe isinqumo kodwa ngiyicoshe ngemuva kokuba iNdlu isiguqile.  Bekuyilokho ebengifisa ukukusho ngenze ukuthi kusasa singayenzi lento noma senzele iNdlu isekisi kepha sazi ukuthi sithunywe abantu futhi simelele abantu.

Let us move on.  So-ke ngiyafisa ukubonga kulamaqembu akhona i-The New National Party emelelekile, PAC, ngokuba babekhona njengoba kungumsebenzi wabo ukuthi babekhona ngoba bayingxenye yokubhalwa kwalencwadi.  Now we will move on to Item No 5 on the Order Paper.

TRANSLATION:  Hon members, I wish to say that yesterday afternoon, after the adjournment of the House, I received a letter written to me by political parties, which are the ACDP, PAC, National Party, ANC, Democratic Party, reporting, that these hon members would not be present today.  

I wish to thank the members I see who are present, some of them who had written these letters, and say that according to Rule 17 of the Rules of Procedure, which explains about the absence of members, it states that a member - it does not refer to a party, it refers to a member - I wish for it to be clear here, that if there are apologies, it would be good for them to be made by a member, not parties.

Secondly, what I wish to explain here is that Rule 10 in the Rules of Procedures, states clearly the one who has the right to authorise the sitting of Parliament and the time when the Parliament can sit.  Rule 80 explains the procedure of conducting the functions of the House and by whom.  Therefore, I wish for it to be clear that unfortunately this letter arrived when I had already made the decision that the House would sit today, as it is sitting.

I would like to express sadness at the manner in which members, or political parties, handle the House in the manner in which they are handling it.  I am saying, it would be bad for the people we lead, and the people who are expecting something from us, that parties express themselves in this manner.  
I think that each and every member is employed to serve the nation.  In that way, it would be nice for members to understand that and know that what is primary is serving the nation.  After that, they could look at what their political parties are saying.  It bothers me if politicians, or political parties, wage, what is called a political boycott of Parliament.  That would be a great danger.  I thought I should say this because it bothers me for this to have happened.

I would like to convey that I do not know whether the letter was written before I made the decision, but I picked it up after the adjournment of the House.  That is what I wished to express so that in future we do not do this thing, or turn the House into a circus, that we should know that we have been sent by the people and we represent the people.

Let us move on.  Therefore, I wish to thank the parties present, the New National Party, which is represented, the PAC, for their presence, as it is their duty to be present.  They were party to the writing of this letter.  T/E

5.	ANNOUNCEMENTS AND/OR REPORT BY THE PREMIER

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, I have no announcements to make at this stage.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, hon Premier.

6.	TABLING OF REPORTS OR PAPERS

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, let us move on.

7.	NOTICES OF BILLS OR MOTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Mr Haygarth.

MR G HAYGARTH:  Mr Speaker, I give notice that I will move on the next sitting day:

	that this House views with concern that the report of the Safety and Security Portfolio Committee recommending the appointment of a Commission of Enquiry into the Violence in the Richmond area was not acted upon by the former Premier, and having regard to the continued unrest in the area and the oncoming National Elections resolves that the new Premier review all the papers on this matter and consider the urgent appointment of a Commission of Enquiry to assist in the stabilisation of the area concerned.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member?

MR R MORAR:  Mr Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of this House, I shall move:

	that this House notes with concern the incorrect list of names of educators at many schools that was published in yesterday's newspaper.  If this list is argued to be correct, then we would not only have removed Ghost Teachers, but a lot of legitimate educators as well.  This is totally unacceptable and as many educators have just felt the crunch of being sold out by the Union, the ANC's offspring SADTU, and calls on the Department to immediately investigate the published list against a proper audit, thereby reducing unnecessary problems for the already over-burdened Minister.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Mrs Galea?

MRS C E GALEA:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I will move on the next sitting day of this House that:

	Noting that:

	The majority of hon Ministers only distribute their department's annual report, whilst giving their budget speech.

	Call upon this House to request that these reports be distributed timeously.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Mr Rehman?

MR M F REHMAN:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I give notice of the following motion: 

	Noting that the ANC has declared this week as "Identity Document Week", coinciding with "Pregnancy Education Week", this House notes with regret, that the Deputy President, Mr Thabo Mbeki did not see fit to address the concerns of millions of voters, especially from the rural areas, the unemployed, the aged, and those merely struggling to keep their heads above water, so to speak, in finding R20 plus transport costs to apply for their barcoded identity documents, whilst acknowledging the tremendous efforts being done by the most efficient Department of Home Affairs.

	This hon House therefore calls on the hon Deputy President and the hon the Minister of Finance, Mr Trevor Manuel to immediately allocate the necessary funds to the very voters whom we are all trying to assist.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Mr Waugh?

MR J C N WAUGH:  Mr Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day:

	That this House, noting with great concern:

	1.	the disregard of the Rules of this House by the Premier and the majority party;

	2.	the unilateral changing of the parliamentary programme without the necessary consultation and agreement of other parties;

	3.	that Bills scheduled for debate and approval are withdrawn on short notice, apparently by the Premier;  
	4.	and the general running and administration of this House.

	Therefore resolves:

	That the Premier and Cabinet acknowledge the sovereignty of Parliament and in future comply with the Rules of this House. 

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motion or Bill?  Thank you, then we move on to Item 8 on the Order Paper.

8.1	PREMIER'S STATE OF THE PROVINCE ADDRESS

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon his hon the Premier.

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, and hon members, as I begin the difficult journey of heading the Government of KwaZulu-Natal, I believe that it is incumbent upon me to express in detail the policies and the vision which I wish to submit for the discussion and approval to this Parliament.  During my acceptance address of 15 days ago I highlighted some of the major features and the style of the government over which I intend to preside.  On this occasion, it is proper and fitting for me to flesh out the details of what I wish to contribute to the Province of KwaZulu-Natal, through my premiership of its government.

On this occasion I would like to introduce the practice that every year at the beginning of each new session of Parliament the Premier presents a policy speech for Parliament to discuss.  A policy speech should identify the major focuses of policy attention to be pursued throughout the year through the collegial work of all the members of this House and our Cabinet.  My policy speech does not intend to be prescriptive or inflexible.  It is my contribution to a debate which must ensue within this House.  I believe in our collegial wisdom and in our guidance.

At the outset of my policy speech I wish to make some preliminary remarks on the method of government which I intend to follow.  The method of government which I intend to follow is based on collegiality, all-inclusiveness and unity.  I carry the burden of leading and I will exercise it, but I am deeply aware that progress in our Province can only be achieved if we all co-operate on the basis of a foundational unity of minds and purpose, which harmonises our action over and above any political difference or sectoral agenda.

I intend to make suggestions for public debate.  If my suggestions are not carried forward with the sufficient consensus of our provincial stakeholders and role players, I will have the humility to go back to the drawing board and seek new solutions to our problems.  I wish to test my leadership on our collegial capacity to work together.  If through our dialogue we can find solutions which are better than those I have proposed, I shall regard it as success rather than a failure of my leadership.

I must also remark on the style of government which I intend to follow.  I hope that my method of government will show maximum flexibility in accommodating legitimate interests and expectations and in opening a door to whoever has a contribution to make towards the welfare and growth of our Province.  In this regard, I can assure the people of KwaZulu-Natal of my maximum flexibility.  However, in respect of my style of government, I must serve notice that I shall have much less flexibility.

I intend to develop a culture of zero tolerance in respect of corruption, indolence and absenteeism.  All those serving in government must be aware that the style of government is henceforth changing.  We must develop a new culture in the civil service of discipline and dedication.  This culture must recognise and reward personal efforts and achievements.  I know that the great majority of civil servants share this commitment of service and I shall rely on each of them to join with my efforts.  Together we can transform our government into an effective delivery machine.  Together we can score the highest mark of performance which I hope will characterise the new style of government in KwaZulu-Natal.

We must reform government to create in it a new enthusiasm, greater dedication and more rational structures.  However, before we do so, we must ensure that the political class of this Province can lead by example, irrespective of our political divisions.  Political divisions will remain, but we must ensure that they become part of a productive dialectic of government and democracy.  I must plead with members of this House to join me in a new beginning.  Let us not indulge in useless controversies.  Let us confront one another on the field of real projects and ideas for the growth of our Province.  Let us compete by working harder, with greater dedication and on the basis of constructive efforts.

Our Province has suffered set-backs for too long because of political conflicts within this House.  Many of these conflicts have left behind nothing positive, but only a legacy of divisions, suspicion and grudges.  Often people cannot even remember the reason for some of these conflicts which have paralysed this Parliament in the past.  If we are to argue, let us do so about matters of substance which have a bearing on the future of our Province.  I will entertain any such discussions with pleasure.  But let us isolate people bent on undermining governance in KwaZulu-Natal, and those who cannot adjust to peace and a climate which is no longer driven by confrontation but by discipline.

The work which awaits us is tremendous and momentous.  I suggest that we focus on a plan of action consisting of five major cornerstones, namely the fight against poverty, job creation, education, the fight against crime and the reform of our government so that government can finally work at its best.  Irrespective of political division, these are the priorities which the citizens of KwaZulu-Natal wish to address.  Let us focus the attention of our government on these five major issues rather than becoming engulfed in spurious or divisive issues.  Let us be judged on what each of us can contribute to improving on the plight of the majority who are under the yoke of poverty, or in creating new job opportunities, or in fighting against crime, or improving on the education system, or in making government work at its best.

During my acceptance address of 15 days ago I touched upon the issue of poverty and our efforts to promote social and economic development in our communities.  I indicated that the fight against poverty will be co-ordinated directly through my office.  Dealing with poverty is not easy in a reality of limited funding and resources.  Under these circumstances we cannot waste or misdirect the little we have.  There are many programmes which intend to alleviate poverty but we often have no certainty that all the allocated money goes to its best use and where it is most needed, targeting the most genuinely poverty-stricken communities in rural areas.  An initiative is in progress within my Department to ensure that funding is not disbursed in an unco-ordinated manner.  Both programmes and policies are being reviewed for this purpose and to ensure that our limited resources are utilised optimally.  For instance, we must ensure that our programmes are not too thin in terms of on-the-ground assistance while too many of our civil servants dealing with these very issues are relegated to office work.

We must also bring greater awareness within our Government's functions about the impact of our activities on poverty.  I cannot promise that our efforts may eradicate poverty or ameliorate it substantially in the short or medium term.  However, there are things which we can and must do and one of these is to become more aware of the magnitude of the problem and the limits of our resources.  I hope that within the parameters of a budgetary reform and of a substantial re-prioritisation of government spending, we will also be able to introduce something new in how our government works.  We should assess the impact of our activities and of our spending, on the alleviation of poverty.  When activities are undertaken or policies set by any of our major offices in any of our departments, decision-makers in government should be able to assess how such activities or policies will impact on development.

The long-term solution to poverty and job creation remain economic growth.  I wish to take stock of why these projects have not taken off and see what our Province can do to become a catalyst of their development.  Our Province will need to work hand in hand with the National Government to promote important projects which promise economic growth and job creation.  We will need to co-ordinate with the Minister of Transport to ensure that the much discussed new airport becomes a reality.  It is my intention to continue discussions with the Minister of Transport to see whether our Province can be enabled through national legislation to take a direct and active legislative and administrative role in promoting the construction of the new airport at La Mercy.  We must also liaise with the National Government to obtain delegated authority and co-ordinate activities in respect of the upgrading and commercial promotion of our deep water ports.

We must also look within our Province for major fixed capital projects which have not taken place even though the conditions for their development are mature.  For instance, the waterfront in Durban is one of those projects which has suffered because our Province does not have the power to promote it adequately.  A waterfront in Durban would be a crucial development to tie together the upgrading of the ports to serve the cruise industry during the European winter and the tourist industry supported by the new airport.  Real co-operative governance requires that even matters such as ports, harbours and airports, which are handled directly by the National Government, receive our input and that our Province is enabled to become a catalyst for their promotion.

We are also committed to ensuring that Durban does not fall into the type of urban decay which has strangled the centre of Johannesburg.  If you will allow me, Mr Speaker, one party political note of my address, I wish to mention that my party has shown its commitment to and faith in the centre of Durban by purchasing a five-storey building in the middle of Durban.

It is also my intention to finalise a new legislative framework for the gambling industry on the basis of an initiative by our former Premier, Dr B S Ngubane.  Casinos remain one of the most important new infrastructures which we can help to develop and remain a significant opportunity to attract investors to our Province and generate additional revenue for our Government.  I am very concerned by the climate of suspicion, allegations and overt manipulation in which the casino licensing and regulation has become engulfed.  I do not wish to see any more of this controversy taking place as it is very destructive for our Province and for business confidence.

I intend to retain the Portfolio on Horse Racing, Gaming and Betting to ensure the integrity of the process, until we can clarify once and for all a legal framework for the vexed issue of licensing and the regulation of gambling.  Licensing and the regulation of gambling must be transferred to the Gambling Board in terms of national legislation.  Our Government does not wish to be involved in the licensing and regulation of gambling but will exercise only policy power to ensure that any casino licence granted by the Gambling Board achieves our legitimate policies and maximises benefits for our citizens, while minimising the potentially harmful effects associated with the gambling industry.

Unfortunately, our Province does not have sufficient constitutional powers to promote economic and employment growth in all the relevant fields.  We will need more powers to do what it takes.  However, there is a great deal that we can do with the powers we have, many of which we have not yet utilised.  For instance, we must promote KwaZulu-Natal as the best place to do and locate business in South Africa and should call on the citizens to subscribe to a rigorous work ethic and a culture of earnestness.  We need to take concrete initiatives to create pride in the business environment of our Province both by workers and management.  Let us make KwaZulu-Natal the place of good business.

Amongst the industries which have some of the greatest hidden potentials, is the tourist industry.  Tourism can boost our provincial economy and promote development both in rural and urban areas, and both among large enterprises and small businesses.  KwaZulu-Natal has significant comparative advantages over the rest of the country in respect of important industries which can be assisted and stimulated by our Government.  We must unleash the great potential of our industry, especially amongst medium and small enterprises.  Our Province is blessed with one of the most successful finance corporations on the African continent.  The KwaZulu Finance and Investment Corporation over the years has created the largest number of employment opportunities when compared to the limited resources available to it.  The KFC shows how the partnership between government and business can serve the purposes of development and economic growth.

The greatest hidden resource in our Province which we must discover and capitalise on is our human potential.  We must increase the value of our human resources by enabling each of our citizens to grow and realise the full measure of his or her God-given human potential.  The greatest wealth of South Africa is not necessarily in the bowels of the earth but in the hearts and minds of our people who for too long have suffered the plight of ignorance because of a lack of education, lack of exposure, lack of training and lack of knowledge.  I intend to make education a priority of my Government.

We should conduct the education of our citizens not only through the Department of Education in respect of our youth but through all departments so that we can bring education to all our citizens.  Education must become not only a function of a specific department, but a characteristic and a quality of how other functions are being exercised.  For instance, the Department of Health should educate about primary health care; the Department of Agriculture should educate about small projects which enable people to grow food and raise livestock on their land, or make the jump from subsistence farming to commercial farming on a small scale; and so on and so forth.

We must call for a partnership between government, business and civil society to provide training and adult education in communities, work places and other venues.  In this respect, it is essential that we tie the education of our youth to professional training, civic education and continuing adult education, including an appropriate campaign against the plight of illiteracy.  The profound inequalities in skills, knowledge and exposure are the most dramatic aspects of the legacy of apartheid which the whole of society must now redress through a joint effort.

We must conduct an inventory of private and public structures and resources through which professional training can take place and call upon business to make additional resources available.  Once we have a full understanding of the training capacity within our Province, we will need to rationalise it and direct it in such a fashion that we can make training and adult education relevant to the immediate needs of our people and to the long-term development of their human potential, both at individual and at community level.  Glorious institutions which have now fallen by the wayside, such as the KwaZulu Training Trust and the Natal Training Centre, will need to be revamped within the parameters of an overall policy of rationalisation.

Obviously, our greatest emphasis in respect of education will remain in our schools, which must become an example for the whole country.  From this House we must send a message to administrators, students and teachers that they should join hands with us to take pride in their jobs.  We offer to them the challenge of making our Province a centre of excellence in education.  Government by itself cannot win the challenge of securing the individual and collective upliftment of our youth through education.  We need the participation of our communities in this effort and the involvement of parents and outstanding citizens to make our schools work.  We must bring into our schools a real education which is both relevant and conducive to human growth, while ensuring that education does not remain limited to the education system but reaches out and goes into our communities.

We can achieve discipline and dedication in our schools if we create a new spirit of purpose and achievement.  However, we must also redress the profound structural imbalances in the administration of the education system.  Public funding must go into books, classrooms and teachers' salaries.  Unfortunately, too much of our budget is being spent on the administration of the education system, rather than on the administration of our schools.  For instance, we may consider reducing the number of regions in which our education system is currently divided.  We could reduce the number of such regions from eight to three, having one regional office for the Durban-Pietermaritzburg axis, one for the South Coast and one for the North Coast.  In making this proposal I do not wish to lay down a blueprint, but merely to point out a direction in which our debate can develop.

During my acceptance address of 15 days ago, I spoke about the problem of crime, the fight against which remains a priority of my Government even though in this matter provincial powers are also nominal.  We will approach the Central Government to seek more delegated legislative and administrative powers and functions in respect of policing.  Moreover, if we cannot manage policing functions from the top we will need to do so from the bottom.  We must ensure that communities become the place where the route of crime finds its most powerful obstacle.  We must empower communities to work with the police in the fight against crime joining hand in hand so that criminal elements can be isolated and exposed.

Our Government should become a catalyst of a great partnership for safety and security which embraces communities, business and police.  The successful experiment we conducted in Durban in respect of the car watch shows that we have the capacity and the skills to form these successful partnerships.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We must continue along these lines.  We also need the inputs of business and communities to flesh out the proposal I launched 15 days ago, namely that we should implement the provision of the Constitution which enables our Province to establish a provincial police monitoring board.

This provincial police monitoring board should be provided by our statute but operated through representatives of communities, stakeholders and role players.  It should receive complaints and appoint investigators or commissioners, probing into matters which could increase police efficiency and redress any breakdown in the relationship between the police and communities.

The fifth point of the policy drive which I wish to share with this House relates to the transformation of our Government.  This will be a long process but the sooner we start it, the better.  We need to start collecting ideas and proposals to make government more efficient.  Fifteen days ago, I proposed to this House that we rationalise the present structures of government both in respect of its horizontal and vertical divisions in order to re-aggregate the existing line functions in a more coherent fashion.  I shall restate that we need to create uniform, vertical delivery districts which take into account the reality of regional and local government.  Moreover, at the horizontal level we will need to create new aggregates of line functions so as to reduce government waste and increase efficiency.  Our provincial government will also need to learn how to work through and with local government and communities, devolving to them as much administrative capacity as possible.

We have heard the warnings given to us by Minister J Naidoo that there is a looming crises in our government of potentially unmeasurable dimension.  The computer systems supporting our functions could malfunction at any time during the year 2000 which could cause the disruption of basic services such as electricity supply, the distribution of pensions and the administration of local and provincial government offices alike.  As the former Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, I am fully aware of the magnitude of this threat and the difficulty in remedying it.  It appears that KwaZulu-Natal is particularly at risk because of its sophisticated systems which are in place.  We must consider the Y2K crisis as a top priority to be pursued in the next 300 days.  For this reason, I specifically task Minister Peter Miller to take over this responsibility in the hope that with his skills, dedication and drive, this problem can be adequately tackled.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We should also undertake a comprehensive reform of our budgetary procedures to support an overall drive towards efficiency in government.  The budget reform should highlight how much value we produce in respect of each financial unit we spend.  This approach should be conducive to introducing output monitoring and performance auditing in respect of all government offices so that we can measure how much is produced by all those we employ.  Not always can we ascribe a monetary value to what government produces, but we should always be able to cost what it has produced and determine the output of our production.  We should transform government by making all our officials sensitive not only to cost implications but also to value and performance implications.

This budgetary exercise should also identify aspects of government which could be restructured into self-contained units and then privatised.  This form of privatisation could go hand in hand with the empowerment of communities which could often become the recipients of this process.  We could also enhance the efficiency of government.  I also believe that we should begin conducting a full inventory of all the assets of our Government and determine whether they are necessary for our functions and whether their employment is cost effective.  The liquidation of these assets could create a windfall which we could utilise to promote our social programmes or to build the necessary infrastructure conducive to further economic growth.  The process of reforming government is always painful and difficult, but I hope it can be conducted in a framework of enthusiasm, responsibility and dedication.

Finally, if we succeed in bringing about the fiscal austerity and financial rigour which I hope to inspire in all our Government activities, we should be able to have financial resources available to finance our policies.  We must exercise our powers to serve our citizens, and not necessarily to increase the size and scope of government.  My goal is that of increasing the effectiveness and efficacy of government, not its size.  We must do better with less and develop policies and legislation to this end.

I feel that great challenges are bestowed upon our shoulders.  If we work together as leaders we can pacify this Province and bring prosperity to it.  I am convinced that this Province can become the most marvellous place anywhere on the continent.  This Province can become a real paradise for all those who live in it.  Achieving this goal will not be easy and it may require the work of more than one generation, but, with the help of God, this is a result which we can indeed achieve.  Let us set aside our differences and work together to show that we love this Province enough to put some hard work into making it a great success and the best place anywhere on the Continent.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear!  Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, Mr Premier.  We have come to the end of our Order Paper.  I do not know whether there are any announcements before we close.  Hon the Premier?

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, I have no announcements to make.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

	HOUSE ADJOURNED AT 11:00 SINE DIE

		DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF
	KWAZULU-NATAL PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURE

	SIXTH SESSION
	THIRD SITTING - FIRST SITTING DAY
	TUESDAY, 16 MARCH 1999

THE HOUSE MET AT 10:05 IN THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER, PIETERMARITZBURG.  THE SPEAKER TOOK THE CHAIR AND READ THE PRAYER.

THE SPEAKER:  

2.	OBITUARIES AND OTHER CEREMONIAL MATTERS

3.	ADMINISTRATION OF OATH OR AFFIRMATION

4.	ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE SPEAKER

I would like to table here before the members a message for Commonwealth Day 1999 from Her Majesty the Queen, the Head of the Commonwealth.  Thank you.  It is dated 8 March 1999.

5.	ANNOUNCEMENTS AND/OR REPORTS BY THE PREMIER

THE SPEAKER:  Hon the Premier.

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, I have no announcements to make.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

6.	TABLING OF REPORTS AND/OR PAPERS

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Minister of Finance.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Speaker, I table the annual report of the KwaZulu-Natal Department of Finance in order that members may have it available for the debate on Thursday.  Thank you.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Hon member Mr Volker.

MR V A VOLKER:  Mr Speaker, I would like to table three reports by the Auditor-General.  The first one is the Construction and Maintenance of Roads by the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Administration, Department of Transport.  The second is Financial Statements of vote 5, Education and Culture of the Provincial Administration of KwaZulu-Natal for 1996/1997.  The third one, The Management of Special and Public Ordinary School Education in the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Administration, Department of Education and Culture.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Hon Minister of Agriculture.

MR N SINGH: (Minister of Agriculture and Housing):  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, I have the honour of tabling the report for the Department of Agriculture for the period 1 January 1998 to 31 December 1998.  This report is supplementary to my budget speech which I will be presenting some time next week.  I hope this report will afford members the opportunity to participate in the debate on an informed basis.  Copies are available in both English and isiZulu, and may I add that we would have liked to print copies in Afrikaans, but due to financial constraints, it was not possible this year, but we will consider that possibly in our next tabling of reports.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Reports or papers?  Thank you.

7.	NOTICES OF BILLS OR MOTIONS 

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Rajbansi.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move tomorrow as follows:

		that this House recognises that the Constitution of our country deals with the recognition and the promotion of the various languages of South Africa including those that are spoken by the members of the Indian community.

		Therefore it comes as a great shock to all members of the Indian community that the SABC states that there is no constitutional obligation for the SABC towards the languages spoken by the minority Indian community and this negative stance is contrary to the provisions of the IBA Act.

		Therefore it be resolved to request the National Minister in charge of Broadcasting to arrange for the SABC to retract this very hurtful statement with an apology to the Indian community.

And this is moved by the New Minority Front.  This is the New Minority Front Party.

AN HON MEMBER:  Minority ANC Front.

MR A RAJBANSI:  And more will be said during this session.

AN HON MEMBER:  A better face.

MR A RAJBANSI:  We are going to be the mighty conquerors.

THE SPEAKER:  I would like to remind the members that there is no place for advertisements here.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Naicker.

MR S V NAICKER:  Mr Speaker, I shall move on the next sitting day that:

	this House notes, with Africa being home to various species of plants, a majority of which is of medicinal value, we need to promote the marketing and cultivation of indigenous plants. 

	The demand for indigenous medicine in KwaZulu-Natal is considerable, with an estimated 70% of the total population in KwaZulu-Natal making use of traditional medicines.

	Traditional healers always had, and should always have a place in society.  Urbanisation is posing a serious threat to the traditional healers in South Africa.

	We therefore call upon the Minister of Agriculture to promote the cultivation of indigenous medicinal plants, to ensure the survival of the Traditional Healers' place in society.

	We should follow the example of other countries involved in the conservation of indigenous medicinal plants, by having decision-makers at all levels of government, and business and civil society need to acknowledge the magnitude and permanence of indigenous medicine, and the associated indigenous plant demand, and investments in the supply and market development should be undertaken, given an assured market for indigenous medicinal products.

Thank you, sir.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Hon member Mr Edwards.

MR B V EDWARDS: (Whip):  Mr Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move: 

		that this House welcomes the success of multi-party democracy as reflected in the local government by-election held on 10 March in the Durban Ward of Umgeni/Palmiet.

		Which includes Clare Estate and the Canaan informal settlements and won by Mr Jayraj Bachu of the New National Party from the Minority Front.


		that the House will further consider the results reflected:

		New National Party	487 votes
		ANC, Minority Front Alliance (Rajbansi)	383 votes
		IFP;	83 votes
		and Independent DP	83 votes

Thank you.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!

MR A RAJBANSI:  Mr Speaker, I request that that part of the motion A Rajbansi Minority Front, ANC Alliance be expunged from the record.  If we stood, we would have given the NP the whacking of their lives.

AN HON MEMBER:  Why were you there?

MR A RAJBANSI:  We would have given them a whacking of their lives, and we will prove it on 2 June.

THE SPEAKER:  Any other motions or papers?  Any other notices of Bills or motions?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Tarr.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, if you will indulge me for a moment.  Mr Speaker, we are at the beginning of a fairly lengthy session where there will be opportunities for motions every single day.  Mr Speaker, quite clearly the motions that have been moved now fall outside the scope of a motion.  In fact they have been mini speeches, and I would request, Mr Speaker, that you should call the Whips to your office in the next day or so, so we can actually deal with this matter of motions.  It is a continual thorn in the flesh of this House where members abuse the use of motions in order to make political statements and speeches, because quite clearly what is said in moving notices of motions is actually what would have formed part of the debates.  I would like to you to consider that, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  The request by the Chief Whip is granted.  Thank you. Hon member Mrs Cronje.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, mine is not a motion, but it gives me great pleasure on behalf of the ANC to introduce to the House our new member.  As you know, he has been sworn in.  Mr Mboso Kubheka.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Maybe members would like to see him.  Can you stand.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Hon member, Mr Bhamjee.

MR Y S BHAMJEE:  Mr Speaker, I understand we are still on motions.

THE SPEAKER:  Yes.

MR Y S BHAMJEE:  Mr Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of this House I shall move:

		Noting:

		1.	that the ugly face of racism on the sports field only serves to divide our nation-building efforts;

		2.	that if genuine efforts are not made to check this evil it would impact negatively on all our efforts to develop a patriotism which aims to keep and promote all our sports persons to occupy their rightful place in Local, Provincial and the National Sporting arena.

		Believing:

			that it is the responsibility of all the members of this House to openly challenge all sports administrators and members of their respective codes to declare ]war on racism;

		this House resolves to exposing all those who continue to live in the past and who cherish the character of apartheid sport.

Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Another motion?  Thank you.  

8.	ORDERS OF THE DAY

8.1	DEBATE ON PREMIER'S STATE OF THE PROVINCE ADDRESS (POLICY SPEECH)

THE SPEAKER: I have got the list of speakers.  I would know call upon the hon Minister of Education who has 50 minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MRS E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU: (Minister of Education and Culture):  Mr Speaker, hon members.  I stand here to agree with our Premier, and to support his policy speech, and particularly on the aspect of education.  I agree with him that all government departments should be involved in the provisioning of education for all citizens of this Province.  There is need to assess the needs of this Province seriously, then plan the curriculum and the subject packages in order to address the priorities of this Province.  I find that education in South Africa tends to be very wasteful, because it has not been prioritised, and it does not address the needs of the Province.

The financing of education should bear visible fruit at the end of a 9 year or a 12 year period for the youth, in that such youth can either go straight to employment or undergo further training that would lead to either the creation of employment for others or being employed themselves.

If one looks at departments like Agriculture, Economic Affairs and Tourism, Traditional Affairs, Nature Conservation, Public Works and Transport one realises that these departments have the potential, the greatest potential of providing opportunities of training adults, and equipping them with skills which could lead to self-employment.

Our Department, the Department of Education and Culture, is presently involved on an ongoing basis in the development of skills of our people through the skills training centres operated under the section on Technical Colleges that is run by Mr Ingram.

For education to be successful in this Province, there are certain things that have to be undertaken, but before I say that, I want to congratulate all the schools that obtained 100% pass marks in matric last year.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MRS E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU: (Minister of Education and Culture):  I am saying well done to those schools.  I am saying keep up the good work.  My further congratulations goes to those schools which obtained between 70% and 99% in the last years examinations.  I encourage those schools who got between 50% and 69% passes to strive harder this year.  Their work was good, but I am saying it was not good enough.  They need to work harder this year.

I have already been heard in previous speeches stating that:
	
	I am committed to quality and culture of education, of teaching and learning in our schools and colleges; ensuring that this Province returns to its previous position of excellence in education and the maintenance of law, order and stability through DISCIPLINE in our schools.  I have also been heard saying I would undertake a debate with parents on the question of even including corporal punishment in the schools, and I have been called Big Stick Shandu.  That we have got to see to.

Education in this Province, I am announcing to hon members and to the public at large in this Province that education in this Province shall be conducted like a business and as such business rules shall be adhered to.  For example, following the simple rules of:

-	arriving at school at least 15 minutes before school starts, both by educators and learners, and remaining at school for at least seven hours.  That was an agreement between education and the unions.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MRS E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU: (Minister of Education and Culture):  
-	Educators being engaged in active teaching, evaluation of learners' work, guiding and counselling the learners.

-	Learners themselves learning, writing and studying their work diligently without bunking classes or absenting themselves from school.

-	I urge that for certain schools in disadvantaged communities that lack facilities at home, afternoon supervised study shall be conducted.

I therefore call on some learners to avoid loitering in the streets during school and working hours.  If they do not learn to concentrate on their work now when they are young, how will they learn to carry the responsibility of duty in adult life.  

I am saying these business rules shall continue to that of involvement of parents as owners of the learners and general managers of the school activities and school community.  I see that parents are neglecting their duty as parents.  The cultivation of the ethic of hard work, loyalty, commitment instead of entitlement, laziness and cheating shall be followed.

We want to so improve the performance in schools this year that all the grades below standard 10, Grade 12, shall be engaged in learning as if they themselves are going to sit for matric examinations at the end of the year.

-	The role played by subject advisors and Psychological services shall be enhanced, and so shall the subject packaging in schools.

A far greater percentage of resources needs to be channelled to the provision of technical and vocational education in future in order to produce individuals that are relevant to the needs of our Province.  It is noticed with dismay that the education system in South Africa tends to be very wasteful, I repeat.  There is no prior assessment of needs and the subsequent provision in accordance with the Provincial Priorities.

There are steps that I have taken to ensure that what I am saying is not just preaching and empty words.  Steps that I have taken and steps that are to be taken in future.

-	Already a detailed circular has been sent to all Regional Chief Directors requesting them to collect information and explain the reasons and circumstances that led to the poor performance of all the schools that obtained less than 50% pass in matric examinations in 1998.  I do not consider less than 50% a pass in any subject, and for us to be a competitive nation globally I require that in fact schools shall work so hard that at the end of the year they all aspire at least to get 50% pass at the end of the year.

-	Each Regional Chief Director is asked to explain the contribution he himself made in ensuring that Matriculants pass in 1998; why the learners failed so dismally nevertheless when he was involved; what plans he has in place for 1999 Matriculants in order to prevent a repeat of last year, and to state what his TARGET for 1999 is.

-	The replies from the Regional Chief Directors have been returned, and are being assessed by a team led by Mr Shamaze, the Deputy Director General in the Department of Education and Culture.  I am personally working on a PROGRAMME of visits to schools and Governing bodies in the eight Regions, starting in April 1999, in an attempt to determine for myself what the problems are and to encourage those schools that continue to do well.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MRS E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU: (Minister of Education and Culture):  I have sent letters of appreciation and congratulations to all the schools that obtained 100% pass, and to those schools that obtained between 70% and 99% pass.  I have also sent letters of encouragement to schools that obtained between 50% and 69%, and I have sent letters of disappointment and demand to those schools that obtained between 0% and 49%, and greater attention is being given to such schools this year.

I am also calling on all political parties, particularly through my Portfolio Committee to be engaged actively in the promotion of quality education in our Province.  I am not the kind of person that is involved in a lot of words, but I am an action person.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MRS E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU: (Minister of Education and Culture):  The other thing that I am undertaking with the Department, and undertaking with you, hon members, is that I want to market the Department of Education.  Market the good work that the Department is achieving through you.  Sell to our provincial customers, the commodities that can uplift their lives in the short, medium and long term.  Examples:

-	I want to let you know, hon members, that the Colleges of Education, and in particular SACOL.  SACOL is a new college that includes three colleges of education, and is the only distance college in this Province which offers such unique subjects as sign language.  The colleges that came together were Springfield, Umlazi Further and the Pietermaritzburg College of Education;

-	The Technical Colleges and Skills Centres which impart technical skills to our youth and communities at reasonably short spaces of time, of three months, and have the potential of absorbing most of our out of school youth and people with little academic qualifications;

-	The Arts, Culture and Craft programmes that can employ all of us I think is under-marketed in this Province.

-	I am also marketing the in-school and out of school sports capable of developing KZN Sports Stars and could employ many in future;

-	I am further marketing the Youth Affairs Sector that is aimed at taking care of Youth matters at all levels and all varieties.  Did you know that such a sector exists within the Department of Education?

-	Did you know that Heritage, Libraries, Archives and Museums fall within the Department that employs many of the people in this Province, and that these programmes have the capacity of employing hundreds of people, and act as outlets for people's home industries?

-	I am not sure that you know that within the Department of Education there is the Psychological Services that is operating.  It gives guidance to people, especially learners, your children on a variety of things.  For example:

	-	It deals with trauma counselling to victims of abuse and are responsible for the protocol for the Prevention and Management of child abuse;

	-	Are responsible for the programmes that promote good health in school children and creating awareness on HIV/AIDS, the scourge that affects children's lives in many ways.  I am very proud that our Department is working very co-operatively with the Department of Health in this matter.

	-	The psychological Services have school social workers.  I am marketing these sections in our Department.  Occupational therapists and speech therapists that perhaps many of us did not know of.

Ladies and gentlemen, these are some of the things that I intend doing.  I am also announcing to you some of the things that are going on within our own Department.  But what do I expect in return from the people who are employed in the Department of Education and Culture?  

1.	I expect that people who are employed in the Department of Education and Culture are loyal to duty and to the Department that puts bread on their tables, by upholding the good name of the Department and refraining from anything whatsoever that would bring the Department into disrepute.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MRS E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU: (Minister of Education and Culture):

2.	I expect from people employed by the Department to serve the Department with honesty and strive to take our Department to heights of excellence through dedication, and continuously working hard.

3.	I expect people employed in the Department to go back to the basics.

	-	I have already mentioned the arriving of 15 minutes before time in order to organise one's day.
	
	-	To stay at work and do the work assigned to you diligently.

	-	For those who are supervisors, to do exactly that, and make sure that there are no backlogs and correspondence is attended to promptly.

	-	I expect that people must have itineraries.  I would like a system and order in whatever we do in the Department of Education and Culture, and therefore I expect that when officials go out of the Department, people have itineraries which indicate where they are going, for what reason and for how long, and they must be accountable.

	-	I also expect from people that government vehicles must be kept in a state of good repair and may not be used for private purposes nor outside of working hours unless one is on the way to or from a destination.

	-	Use of vehicles and any government property must be authorised by persons who have authority to do so.

-	I have charged the Superintendent General to engage our internal auditors profitability to uncover any acts that may embarrass our Department and our Provincial Government.

I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I now call upon the hon member Advocate Schutte.  Seven minutes, sir.

ADV D P A SCHUTTE:  Mr Speaker, I congratulate the hon Minister of Education on her excellent speech, and I would like to give her the assurance from my Party that we will assist her wherever possible to improve the education system in this Province.  The sad fact is that there is great room for improvement, but I have confidence in her ability to really make a change in this regard.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MRS E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU: (Minister of Education and Culture):  Thank you.

ADV D P A SCHUTTE:  The question is, Mr Speaker, why did we have to wait five years to get this appointment in education?

Mr Speaker, on a personal level, I would like to congratulate the hon Premier on his first "so-called State of the Province" speech, and may this not be his last.  I believe that he has the potential to make a meaningful contribution to this Province.

Having carefully read the hon Premier's speech, there is very little that one cannot but applaud.  His commitment to all inclusiveness and unity, and his inflexibility with regard to zero tolerance in respect of corruption, indolence and absenteeism.  His commitment to capital projects to create jobs.  His commitment to boost tourism.  His commitment to partnership between government and business.  His commitment to push the Central Government for more powers for this Province.  His commitment to establish a provincial police monitoring authority.  His commitment to privatisation and to excellence in education.

But, Mr Speaker, with the same vigour that I laud the good intentions of the Premier, I must point out that his speech is totally unreal and inappropriate.  If one reads the speech, one could be led to the conclusion that this marks the beginning of a new electoral term - when we know this is not the beginning of a new electoral term, it is the end of an electoral term.

Now is not the time for great intentions, now is the time to point out great achievements.  The fact that we are entertained on good intentions at this stage, I believe is proof that there are no great achievements to boast of.  I have sympathy for the Premier.  He is a newcomer and he cannot personally take the blame for the lack of these achievements, but his administration is not new.  It is five years old, and that administration of which he is head must now take the blame for the non-delivery and inefficient administration in this Province.  The very fact of the intentions and the fact of their broad scope, I believe, Mr Speaker, is an admission of the non-delivery and failure of this administration.  Let me just point out a few examples.

Suddenly the Premier and his administration is in favour of a police monitoring body.  After my party has for more than two years consistently called for such a body, and brought draft legislation to this House, but to no avail. 

The IFP administration was not prepared to act with decision in this regard.  It was allowed to be swayed by the pressure from the ANC.

The same applies to tourism.  The IFP administration sat idly by allowing the ANC Minister for Tourism to play games with this crucial industry, failing to do the most basic, and that is to have the Tourism Board appointed.  In the final analysis, Mr Speaker, the Premier as the head of the administration must take responsibility for this.

On the economic growth aspects and projects to alleviate poverty, the hon Premier has himself said that he wants to investigate why the projects did not take off.  Again a matter which was the responsibility of the leader of the ANC in this House, but ultimately the responsibility of the leader of the Administration in this House, the Premier.

No, Mr Speaker, the sad fact is that I believe this speech is the ultimate proof of the failure of this administration.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

ADV D P A SCHUTTE:  I am getting there.  I am getting there in a moment.  The Administration had everything going for it.  This Province was one of two provinces not under ANC rule.  The ANC in this Province actually had less support than the ANC in the Western Cape.  The IFP Government had massive sympathetic support and goodwill from the people, and I believe, Mr Speaker, that has all been squandered.  The reason for that is that the IFP has allowed itself to be mesmerised into a lack lustre performance by its ANC partners.  It was also not able in itself to produce excellent administration.  This, Mr Speaker, in stark contrast to the New National Party administration in the Western Cape.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

ADV D P A SCHUTTE:  An administration that in every respect, be it education, be it effective and corrupt free administration, be it growth rate, has set the example of all the provinces in this country, and as a result is envied by all.

AN HON MEMBER:  Like who?

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order!  Let us behave as hon members please.

ADV D P A SCHUTTE:  This Province, and the IFP in particular had the same potential, but has failed to make use of this opportunity, and the result is, Mr Speaker, that the IFP is going to pay the political price in the coming election by losing its majority status.  I thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Order!  Order!  I will now call upon the hon member Mr J Aulsebrook.  You have 12 minutes.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  25 February was a sad day when members of the other side of this House boycotted the sitting in Ulundi.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  In fact the excuses that they gave us were very lame: "Our diaries were full".  But I sincerely hope that they found time in their diaries to read the speech that was delivered on that day, a speech that really mapped the way forward for this Province.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  In listening to Mr Schutte speaking, it is just a pity that he was not in this House for the full five years, and only came in halfway through it, because then he may have realised ...

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION.

THE SPEAKER:  Order JJ.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  ... the task that this House faced, certainly when it came to amalgamation of departments, with the transformation.  Those were remarkable achievements, remarkable achievements that the hon Mr Schutte has failed to give us credit for.  Quite honestly the policy speech delivered by the Premier was a very reconciliatory speech, and I am glad that at least the hon Schutte conceded that, and it had a lot of merit in what it said.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  One must accept that this speech is forward looking.  We do not want to rest on our laurels of what was achieved in the past four years, because there were major achievements and we have already dealt with those in the past.  But we need to look at how we are going to achieve them, and here the Premier gave his methodology and how a government would do it.  It was based on reconciliation, congeniality, collegiality, all inclusiveness and unity.

AN HON MEMBER:  Congenial?

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  No, collegiality sorry.

AN HON MEMBER:  That is correct.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  The Premier also put on the table a lot of issues for debate, and that it was in fact this type of debate that we hoped to provoke here.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Having dealt with the background to this, we must now say we are going to look forward, and that is what this speech does.  It deals with issues around our future, and how we are going to look and deal with it in government.  

Number one was performance of government, and to a certain extent the hon Minister of Education has dealt with performance in the Education, but the speech went even further and dealt with performance in government in general.  
Certainly, over the five years we have laid the foundations for improved performance, performance measurement.  We originally came with the Government Performance Bill, which unfortunately, because of it being a national competence, we actually never achieved, but that would have been a very good start for us.  It is a pity that hon Schutte was not engaged in that process.

Going further, with regards to the zero tolerance to corruption, indolence and absenteeism.  These are high priority issues for the future.  Those issues, although we attempted to deal with them in the past, but as one understands with the amalgamation and transformation process it was not an easy task.  That will be given priority from hence forward.

In dealing with the issues of corruption and absenteeism, one has a complicating factor, and that is the role that the trade unions tend to play, particularly in the civil service.  I ask for members here engaged in trade unions, please let us look to you for assistance in advising your members correctly, that they in fact help and assist us with remedying absenteeism and poor performance in the administration.  That is a very positive role you can play.

The next main issue that we need to deal with in the next five years, and that is the one of dealing with poverty.  Poverty is a major ...

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

THE SPEAKER:  Order hon member Mr JJ.  Please behave yourself.  Thank you.

AN HON MEMBER:  Out, out, out.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  We as a Government have a social obligation to the people of KwaZulu-Natal.  The only way we are going to deal with this is through economic growth.  Certainly as Government, our social obligation, we have certain welfare obligations to deal with, and assist and alleviate poverty with regards to the poor, but long term addressing of the poverty situation can only come through economic growth.

We have been talking about airports.  It has been going around for five years, and we need to now concretise this and make sure that that actually happens.  We keep blaming national.  National's intervention and this and that and the other.  Really, we must show the resolve to see that it happens.  Harbours, another one.  Again a national competence and one tends to want to hide behind the fact that we cannot get going, but these are the things that we need to focus on, and as a Provincial Government start putting on pressure on those authorities that have been dragging their heals in these matters.

Those are just two projects.  There are lots more in this Province that we can deal with.  If we want to really start talking about economic empowerment, that comes purely through employment.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Will the hon member take a question?

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order!  Hon member Mr Rajbansi.

MR A RAJBANSI:  My question to the hon member is that why is he delivering the best speech ...

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Mr Speaker, I did not say I would take a question.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Why are you delivering the best speech before the list is drawn up?  [LAUGHTER]

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Economic empowerment...

THE SPEAKER:  Your microphone please.  Thank you.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Sorry.  Thank you.  Mr Speaker, economic empowerment is something we hear a lot about, and one tends to think that it is going to be brought about purely through affirmative action.  We have seen the economic empowerment as advocated through the National Government as making a few people rich and leaving the bulk of our people poor.  The most effective way of dealing with that is ensuring employment.  The best way you can economically empower the individual on the ground is by giving him a job, helping him improve his self-dignity.  

We have been focusing on providing housing, electricity and water, and that is certainly very noble and essential in this day and age, but what is the good of giving people things that they cannot afford or pay for?  It frustrates them.  You are laying the grounds for a new social revolution in this country.  We should have rather concentrated on jobs.  That form of economic empowerment would have given us a far brighter future than what we have today, and that is what this Provincial Government is going to focus on in the next few years.

Economic development, we look at our waterfront in Durban.  20 years it has been going round and round and nothing is happening.  We say well, it is the Department of Harbours or whatever, Transport, Transnet.  We blame the local government and then after wasting 20 years suddenly they award it to Malaysians who fall into a difficult financial situation with regards to the collapse of the Eastern markets, and now everything grinds to a halt again.

If one looks at what happened in Sydney Harbour, there was a whole derelict section of that harbour which was just warehousing.  The city was doing nothing.  The State of New South Wales stepped in and said: "If you cannot do anything, we will do it", and today you have the most magnificent waterfront in Darling Harbour.  Okay, there are slightly different circumstances here, but we as a Provincial Government should have seen to it that the Point Waterfront took place.  That it happened.  It has just ground to a halt.  There is a minimal amount of development there right now.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I must compliment the Premier on his policy speech.  It was certainly very positive.  It gives us direction, and what Mr Schutte was saying about coming to the end of a term, we are also starting a new term now, and we are ready to govern for the next five years.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  That is our positive approach to this.  We are now going to make certainly a ...

HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTIONS

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  And we have governed and we will govern.  Thank you.  In conclusion I support the policy document.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Burrows for six minutes.

MR R M BURROWS:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I too would like to echo the congratulations to Minister Shandu on her speech this morning.  I think it has set out admirably the position that everybody should be following in the Department of Education from the top all the way down to the bottom.  But we will debate that more on Friday during the Education vote.

One of the things I regret about the change in Parliament from the old system to the new, is that we lost what came to be known as a speech from the throne and a motion of no-confidence.  In essence I think the Premier has reintroduced at least, if I may use the phrase, a speech from the throne, although he is not the King.  What we need to, I believe, institute is the debate on a motion of no-confidence, because essentially, ladies and gentlemen, the point that we have lost in this House is that by voting and dividing we make quite sure that by jaw-jaw we do not have war-war outside.  We should vote more often in this House, not less often.  We should vote on issues of policy, and the Government should lose occasionally on matters of policy, because in this House at the present moment, Mr Speaker, with you in the Chair, it is 42 on the one side and 42 on the other side.  If we voted on issues, including the policy speech of the Premier, then at least it would focus the mind of the electorate and the people outside that there can be a change of government by a democratic means through a vote in this House, not by pulling out guns and shooting each other outside.  We do not have that constitutional situation at the present moment, although a defeat in a motion of no-confidence is entirely possibly, it is a constitutional matter.

What the Premier has given us in his speech in February is a key overview of how he saw the Province and how he would wish to run it in terms of his view over the next period of time.  He is the third Premier that the IFP have placed in this position.  He, like the others, has set out a policy statement, and I am going to respond to that policy statement now.

I believe from the Democratic Party's side, colleagues, that we would say if the Premier is consistent and lays down a firm line, and does what he says, then we are right behind him.  But with respect, Mr Premier, what you say is sometimes not what you do.  The reality is something different. 

For example, you say, and it is said in three or four paragraphs, "I will not be prescriptive, I will be flexible", and it is repeated three or four times, including the phrase, "I will extend maximum flexibility".  But what is the reality?  The reality, with respect, Mr Speaker, is that this side of the House did not listen to the Premier's speech because of no inflexibility.  I mean with respect, we were happy to offer an alternative and it was rejected.  It is the Premier's right to reject it.  He can and the House did sit, but I am simply saying that what is in this speech was not in the reality.  One would hope that that kind of thing could be extended.

The Premier talks in three paragraphs about "collegial wisdom", "collegiality" which is an important phrase.  But collegiality with respect, Mr Speaker, means exactly that.  It means getting together with colleagues to share minds to arrive at a collegial decision.  Not your decision, a collegial decision.  I would ask the question, is there collegiality and collegial wisdom at the moment in the Cabinet?  Is there collegial and collegial wisdom amongst the seven party leaders in this House?  Is there collegial and collegial wisdom in the Premier's own political party?  I am simply saying, sir, that if it is in the speech, and we accept that the Premier is an honourable man, that he means what he is saying, then quite frankly we want to see it happen.

At the same time, sir, there are many other areas in the speech that we would echo.  The question of zero tolerance in respect of, and he named them, corruption, indolence and absenteeism.  From our side, and we put motions before this House time and again, we would agree with him 100%, but quite frankly, sir, he has simply got to walk out of his offices to the executive building in Ulundi, and walk through any of those open plan offices, and he will see people eating chicken, he will see people asleep, he will see people talking and he will see people absent.  What we have said, sir, is if they are guilty of these things then they must accept the punishments.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR R M BURROWS:  What he will see, sir, if he has studied the background to some of the complaints that have come before this House, phone calls not responded to by government.  Faxes sent to even Ministers with respect, never answered.

MR A RAJBANSI:  And no replies, no replies.

MR R M BURROWS:  And there are colleagues here, both sides, no reply for years.

MR A RAJBANSI:  For three years.

MR R M BURROWS:  Letters not responded to.  Sir, we agree with him, we support him, but if he is going to have a firm line he must have that line and he must stick to it.

We greet the fact that he calls for enthusiasm, greater dedication, and a rational structure in government.  All of these things we would agree, collegially we would agree, but then let us sit down and talk about the application.  The fight against poverty, nobody would have a single disagreement with what the Premier has said.  

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  The hon member's time is up.

MR R M BURROWS: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Rehman.  You have got 12 minutes.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M F REHMAN:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, sir, at the outset I would like to compliment our hon Premier for delivering his first State of the Province speech to this hon House.  It is indeed heartening to note that the hon Premier has announced a comprehensive programme to promote economic growth and employment in the Province.

The most important feature of the Premier's speech was the statement that KwaZulu-Natal is willing to listen to what the business community requires in order to promote growth.  I must, however, stress that there has to be a cordial partnership with business and government in order for all of us to succeed.  It must also be noted that government does not create jobs, but businesses do.

The hon Premier has also announced his intention to establish a permanent liaison officer in his Department to interface with the business community.  This also confirms that we from the IFP, whether we are in Ulundi, Pietermaritzburg or Newcastle, have no intention of isolating the business community.

Mr Speaker, it is without doubt that this hon House welcomes the hon Premier's view of zero tolerance in respect of corruption, indolence and absenteeism.  Too often we as leaders of the community are confronted by our constituencies complaining that so-and-so is never in his or her office when one phones, or why is there so much fraud in the Government?  Mr Speaker, the fact that corruption within government is becoming so widespread is a concern to all of us.  To a certain extent this despicable phenomena can be explained, even though not justified.  Because of the exceptional times we are living in, we are in a time of transition in which the previous moral code is being challenged without a new one having yet been established.

We must also develop a new culture in the civil service of discipline and dedication.  At this point I wish to echo the hon President Mandela's words, that the government is not an employment agency.  Hopefully once the retrenchment tool is in place some time in July, then only will we be able to reduce the size of our civil service which this Government presently spends 93% of its budget on.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!

MR M F REHMAN:  Mr Speaker, it is very important that our Government begins attaching a price tag to what it does and what it produces, and determines the value of this action.  We need to know how much each service rendered by government is really costing the taxpayer, and we must assess the value of programmes, offices and structures funded or maintained by government.  This approach will set the objective basis to pursue the long held IFP policy of privatisation.  In fact this process should identify what services and products can be more effectively delivered by the private sector.

Tourism remains one of the most important components of a long term macro economic plan for our Province.  As our hon Premier has indicated, we must ensure that we develop a waterfront in Durban, which is a project with great potential that has not yet received sufficient attention, because of political wrangles and lack of political determination.

We must also make a firm commitment to avoid that urban centres become the object of social decay.  We cannot allow the centre of Durban to fall prey to the same destiny which has effectively destroyed downtown Johannesburg.  I believe that together we can create social stability, and economic progress in our beautiful Province of KwaZulu-Natal, which we all equally love.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to place on record that we from the IFP have full confidence in our Premier in bettering the lives of millions of our people in KwaZulu-Natal well into the next millennium.  I support the policy speech of the hon Premier.  Thank you.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I would like to make this announcement.  In office number 4, we have a nurse provided to us by the Department of Health.  Those members who need help, can go to that office.  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Rajbansi.  You have got four minutes.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  After hearing the hon Minister of Education and Culture in this House, I think I will be correct in saying that there is an excellent, fresh, comforting breeze blowing throughout the Province.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR A RAJBANSI:  I say so, Mr Speaker, because every developing country in the world that gave priority to education and brought discipline into education are the countries that are doing well economically today.  When there is a problem in Asia, the countries that have not been affected are the countries that invested in education.  

I say to the hon Minister, that when you read your budget speech, do not say what you are spending is expenditure, say what you are spending is an investment for the future.  Let us ensure that the words you have uttered about "discipline", and especially discipline amongst educators are translated into reality with all the strength at your command, and we will give you the support.

But I also want to say to the hon Premier that I would not be critical of his actions.  I think anybody must be given a reasonable period of time, because the message we are getting nowadays is that there is going to be a no-nonsense approach.  I want to say to the hon Premier, and to the hon Minister of Education, that there is a nice latin phrase in the legal fraternity called rerum cognosce causan.  When you took over the reins of education as you took over the reins of another administration, the per capita expenditure in this country for a black African child was one-sixth of that of a white child.  In every aspect of human activity in this country black people were impoverished to the extent that upliftment of them was difficult.  So you can get the best financial wizard in the world for the past four or five years coupled with an international debt incurred by the previous government, the task for upward mobility is difficult. 

Do not be concerned about ANC and IFP co-operation.  99% of the Indian community are dwellers and 99% of the towns are controlled in this Province by one party.  I am interested in the welfare of minority Indians, and I will co-operate with the IFP and we will co-operate with the ANC and to hell with the prophets of doom.  That is the message we must give.  

There are people in this country, like those who criticise India, that this country will not survive.  Every day, Mr Premier, there is growth and development in this Province, and let us advertise the growth and advertise the development.

I want to make one appeal.  Over the weekend there was a lot of activity about the concerns of the minority Indian.  I want to tell you, when we look back in education for example, did we make use of the resources that were available in the former House of Delegates?  How is it that other provinces, Gauteng, Northern Province, even certain other provinces are taking key personnel from this Province when we ourselves cannot employ them.  How is it that Sharma Maharaj was good enough to be the police commissioner of Gauteng.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Time is up for the hon member.

MR A RAJBANSI:  And he was not good to be here.

AN HON MEMBER:  Time is up.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Is my time up, Mr Speaker?

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Yes, time is up now.

MR A RAJBANSI:  I wanted to speak about family values, and husband and wife unity.  [LAUGHTER]  I will deal with that in the budget debate.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Next time, Mr Rajbansi.  Can I now call on the hon Mr Mkhwanazi who has four minutes.

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Ngiyabonga Baba Somlomo, ngalelithuba ongipha lona.  Ngifisa ukuqala nje ngihalalisele uNkosikazi Shandu ngamazwi akhe amahle awakhulumile ekuqaleni.  [Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity you are giving me.  I wish to just start by congratulating Mrs Shandu for the good words she expressed earlier].  

To those of us who belong to what is called the old school of thought, we see the light at the end of the tunnel.  

When she says Education is going back to the basics I am an old teacher and I will rather go and beg than go to school and teach, because there are no children to teach, and the rules and regulations in the schools are not conducive to good education.  We therefore hope we will at last achieve a code of conduct. 

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Ngidlule lapho ngiye kuBaba uMantshinga.  Inkulumo yakho Baba Ndunankulu weProvince, yayinkulumo eqondile nje. Ekhuluma ngezinto ezifuna ukwenziwa, ofuna ukuzenza, ezinhle futhi.  Ngakho-ke thina bakwa-PAC sizithola sisebunzimeni ukuthi singathola ukuyingayi-criticisa kakhulu inkulumo yakho.  Ngaphandle kokuthi sifuna ukubeka libelinye nje, lokuthi asethembe ukuthi you will practice what you preached. Nakho nje esifisa ukuthi kwenzeke.

Uphathe izinto eziningi.  Wakhuluma ngezinto ezibulala leProvince, ezibulala nalelizwe lakithi.  Indaba yobugebengu, i-crime ngesiLungu, esingumbubhisazwe.  I-crime eseyenza izigebengu kube yizona esezibusa lelizwe, hayi abantu laba abalulungile ababusa lelizwe.

Asethembe ukuthi vele wena neNkosi uNgubane nizoqinisa namaphoyisa enu, nibambisane noHulumeni oMkhulu njengokusho kwakho.  Uyasho lapho enkulumeni yakho uthi uzobambisana noHulumeni oMkhulu, ngoba ezinye izinto ezenza ukuthi izinto zingalungi lapha ekhaya ukungabambisani koHulumeni we-Province noHulumeni oMkhulu.  Asethembeke ukuthi kuzoba njalo.  

Uphathe indaba yokuthi wena you will bring the suggestions and kuhlalwe phansi zixoxwe izinto, iziphakamiso ozilethileyo.   Awu! kuyabongeka lokho.  Sengathi kungaba njalo ukuthi uma uletha imibono, kuhlalwe phansi ixoxwe imibono.  Noma kambeke njengomuntu ohamba phambili awubophelekile ukuthi imibono yonke uyemukele. Kodwa asethembe ukuthi uzokwenzenjalo njengoba lishilo elinye ilungu elihloniphekile ukuthi akube njengoba ukhulumile Mantshinga. 

You have talked about flexibility in accommodating legitimate interests and expectations.  Le-Province le inabantu bonke abakhona emhlabeni owadalwa uNkulunkulu

THE SPEAKER:  Ilungu elihloniphekileyo isikhathi salo sesiphelile.  [The honourable member's time is up].

MR MKHWANAZI:  Ngiyabonga Baba Somlomo.  [Thank you Mr Speaker].

THE SPEAKER:  Siyathokoza kakhulu.  [We are very pleased].

TRANSLATION:  Let me proceed and go to Mr Mantshinga.  Your speech Mr Premier of the Province was a straight forward speech.  It was about things that have to be done; things you want to do; and they are good things.

Therefore, we in the PAC find it difficult to attempt to criticise your speech too much, except that we want to state one thing: Let us hope you will practice what you preach.  This is all we wish to see happen.

You touched upon a number of things.  You spoke of things that are destroying the Province, and destroying the country.  The issue of crime has become an epidemic.  Crime is allowing criminals to rule this country instead of the good people who are governing it.  

Let us hope that you and iNkosi Ngubane will work closely with your police and co-operate with the National Government, as you have stated.  In your speech you said you will co-operate with the National Government, because one of the things that retards progress locally, is the lack of co-operation between the Provincial Government and the National Government.  Let us hope that it will be so.

You mentioned that you will bring suggestions and people can sit down and discuss your proposals.  One is grateful for that.  I hope that you bring your ideas and those ideas will be discussed.  

Maybe as a leader, you are not obliged to accept all views.  However, let us hope that, as one of the hon members said, things will happen as you stated Mantshinga.

You have talked about flexibility in accommodating legitimate interests and expectations.  This Province has the representation of all the people existing on this earth which was created by God.  T/E

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon member Mrs Downs for five minutes.

MRS J M DOWNS:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  

HON MEMBERS:	INTERJECTIONS

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Ingathi kunguwena olala embhedeni ne-IFP ukhombe mina.  [You are the one who goes to bed with the IFP and yet you are pointing fingers at me]. [LAUGHTER]

MRS J M DOWNS:  May I have my two minutes from now, Mr Speaker.  I am being harassed by my colleague next to me.  Four minutes, sorry.

I want to take up where Mr Rajbansi left off.  He said this country will survive, and I agree with him.  This country will survive and this Province will survive, but the question is, and this is one that we need to answer, will we just survive or will we survive and grow and prosper?

I agree with my colleagues, I think the Premier made a good speech.  He made some outstanding proposals, and there are several things that he said which are laudable.  The cleverest thing the IFP has done is to make Minister Shandu the Minister, because she has got a lot to offer this Province.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MRS J M DOWNS:  And I will congratulate them on that.  But having said that, like my colleagues, I am a bit wary of whether the Premier can fulfil the objects that he has laid out in his policy speech.  It is definitely true that this Province needs a vision, it needs a goal, it needs a community contract that people all join together and strive for, and he has mentioned several things.  Among them I am pushing for the airport site at La Mercy and so on, but I wonder how much interest the Provincial Government has taken in the current developments in the port, because with the expansion and the infilling of the site in Durban Harbour, it takes the pressure off making new expansion available for the harbour at the current airport site.  These are the kinds of things that as a Provincial Government we absolutely need to get behind, drive and push for as much as possible.  We thoroughly support his notion that the Province should request having those powers passed down to it so that we can act and we can move forward in these important economic developments, because without them it is true that our Province will not get the job creation, will not alleviate the poverty, and will not do the things that we need to do.

Unfortunately the Premier's early days of office have been marred by two fiascos, and I just need to sound a warning.  If he wants everyone to come behind him as a Province, and I am including not only this House, but the ordinary people in the Province, he needs to be seen to be in charge.  He needs to be seen to have good advice, he needs to be seen to be acting in the best interests in the Province, and he needs to be seen not to be making a mistake.  The two fiascos that I am talking about are the gambling fiasco where he said he was taking gambling, giving it back, taking it back and however it was misinterpreted by the press, that is because of lack of communication in his office, and he needs to take responsibility for that.

The second is the commission of inquiry into gun running, and he obviously did not take proper and correct legal advice.  Unfortunately those fiascos have marred a very good start.  That is where I wish to end.

Minster Shandu, I will address your education speech when it comes to education, because you have made a very good start.  The problem is that your Department I do not think has the will or the ability or the stick behind them to actually do what they are supposed to do, and I will give you a very good example.  We managed to raise US$2 million worth of textbooks for this Province, not for other provinces, for this Province.  We actually sent through faxes of the books, we offered to arrange shipping, unloading and transportation to schools free.  This was in the middle of January.  We still have not had a reply from your Department.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member's time is up.  I would request the hon member to take her seat please.  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Waugh for five minutes.  Thank you.

MR J C N WAUGH:  Mr Speaker, it is with regret that we can only now take part in debating the Premier's address.  This should have been done the following day after it was delivered.  But let me refer to the speech.  I quote:

	On this occasion I would like to introduce the practice that every year at the beginning of each new session of Parliament, the Premier presents a policy speech for Parliament to discuss.

Mr Speaker, this is not something new.  This has always been done.  All we must do in terms of the Rules, and in terms of the tradition of this House, have the speech of the Premier delivered to the House and the following day it is discussed by the House.  So all we should do, Mr Speaker, is actually just stick to the Rules.

AN HON MEMBER:  Yes.  Hear! Hear!

MR J C N WAUGH:  Mr Speaker, another issue I would like to deal with is the appointment of a judicial commission into gun running.  I do not want to discuss the merits of this matter, but I want to say there are many people losing their lives in this Province.  We on this side of the House would like to call upon the Premier to look into the legislation, which we submitted to this House, calling on a permanent commission to look into the efficiency of the police.

The time is now due to have such a commission.  Let us not try scoring political points on these issues.  Let us rather look at the interests of the Province.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!

MR J C N WAUGH:  Mr Speaker, we now have our third Premier in this Province in five years.  Let met remind this House on the occasion that the first Premier left this chamber.  We had a farewell function.  He had the opportunity to greet this House.  I also recall that this House presented him with a gift.  Should we not bestow that on the Premier that has just left us, Dr Ben Ngubane?  Will that not be the right thing to do for him as well?  I leave that for the consideration of the House.

Mr Speaker, let me also address the issue of the Constitution.  In this regard I would like to quote what the King said during the opening of Parliament.  He said, and I quote:

	I pointed out, however, that there were still outstanding sections of the Constitution, particularly those relating to the role and the status of the Monarch.

We totally agree with that, but what do we say.  The Premier in his reply said, "You are right, we must deal with the Monarch in legislation".  No, Mr Premier, we say not in legislation, we say in a Constitution.  The Constitution would need a two-thirds majority to change, and in legislation it will not be enshrined in that same manner.  Let me remind this House on the pre-election deal that was made.  There were two matters.  The one was international mediation, and the other matter dealt with the Monarch in a Constitution.  That was the second matter.  Let us then at least honour this one matter.  Let us now deal with the Monarch in a Constitution, in our Provincial Constitution.

Mr Speaker, another matter I would like to deal with is gambling, and let me quote from the Premier's speech:

	I intend to retain the Portfolio on Horse Racing, Gaming and Betting to ensure the integrity of the process.

What does that say of the process up until this stage?  Two days later we heard that the hon Minister Miller, was still or again dealing with gambling matters.  Now we hear the rumour that, last week on Wednesday, Mr Peter Miller is no longer dealing with this matter.  We request that this House and the people be told precisely what the position is, and who is dealing with it.  Gambling is a million dollar industry, and can benefit this Province largely.  We must not deal with issues like that in this manner.

Mr Speaker, my time is running out.  Let me, however, just welcome the fact that in his speech the Premier referred to education, and we support him on that.  We also support the fact that he has mentioned that the regional offices will be cut to fewer offices.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member's time is up.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon member Mr M B Gwala, who has got 12 minutes to speak.

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  Mr Speaker and the hon members of this House.  I am really pleased to be part of this live debate.  I know and trust that the hon Premier will take us forward into the next millennium.  The hon Premier, Mr Mtshali, is truly a man of political integrity.  A man of character, whom I constantly look up to and today I am very proud to say that I am pleased to serve under his leadership.  Hon Premier, I was really impressed with your State of the Province speech.  Yet there are many who think otherwise - there will always be these elements that use the media to propagate their smear campaigns to defame individuals, yet this will not stop us.  In fact, this type of defamation motivates us to expose the hidden agendas of political parties in this House.

The IFP leaders have constantly been portrayed as "traditionalist" by rationalists.  The hon Premier was even dubbed a "hardliner", and a "yes man".  Yes, he is a yes man, he shows accountability - something that certain individuals in certain political parties lack.  We know that we are accountable to the people of this Province, to serve them responsibly and not simply make empty promises and backtrack.

We are tired of these attempts to defame and slander the Premier.  Mr Mtshali personifies strong leadership - his policy speech is indicative of this.  Our Premier has not simply provided a kind of blue print for KwaZulu-Natal, but has called for sufficient consensus.  I believe this is democracy - working together to find solutions.  Hon members, our Premier is committed to good governance, yet many have failed to see this and attempt to foster their own agendas.

Hon members, there is also this issue of unfinished business, the fact that Dr Ngubane has unfinished business.  There is no doubt in mind that the hon Mr Mtshali will finish his tasks, and these tasks will be completed with dedication and commitment to ensure the betterment of our Province.  Yet we cannot go forward while certain parties are bent on bringing us down.  We cannot let these petty politics go unchallenged.  Look at the issue of the Constitution - we have tried for 18 months to achieve our own Constitution, yet this process is politically prostituted by a certain party in this House, that is the ANC.  Look at the issue of His Majesty and the Kingdom of KwaZulu-Natal - this simply becomes an IFP issue.  Hence, an IFP is actually immaterial on this issue as it is the Zulu people that are demanding that.

Even the Afrikaners want their own "Volkstaat".  The Bushmen in the Kalahari are getting their ancestral land back.  So why is there something wrong with KwaZulu-Natal?  Why are so many fingers pointed at us in the IFP?  Even the issue of Matatiele and Kokstad areas should have been declared part of KwaZulu-Natal, yet this has not happened.  Parties have failed to realise this.  It is time to stop petty politicking.  We know that the Premier, Mr Mtshali, will be able to lead this Province.  He has already called for zero tolerance in respect of corruption and absenteeism - he has called for discipline and dedication.  This is what we need to enable our Province to reach new heights.

We have not used electoral promises and cheap tactics, but we are putting forward a man of determination.  Recently, the media referred to the IFP as fomenting violence in KwaZulu-Natal - it seems like political parties will stop at nothing to achieve their aims.  Look, there are people trained in Moscow and Cuba who claim to be peacemakers, yet they create the impression that the IFP is inciting violence in KwaZulu-Natal.  This is simply a case of sour grapes, it is time for political parties like the ANC to stop finger-pointing.  I am tired of this mischief-making.  It is time for this to stop!

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  Mr Speaker, I believe that the Premier, Mr Mtshali, has what it takes to lead our Province into the new millennium.  Despite our efforts, I know that many individuals or certain party members will aim to place detours along the way.  We, in the IFP are committed to making sure that our Province emerges the triumphant Province.  We know that not everyone will be in favour of our efforts but we are committed to peace, stability and transparency.  

Once again, hon Premier, I congratulate you on your excellent speech.  I, together with all IFP office bearers, will be with you to support you in your endeavours for the betterment of our Province.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M B GWALA: (Leader of the House):  I know that the task ahead will be challenging in the light of all the hurdles being placed, but I know that we will succeed.  We, in the IFP never gave up when the going got tough - we will ensure peace, reconciliation and prosperity.  I am committed to this.  I thank you, hon Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  In the absence of the hon Minister Zuma, I have been told, and it has been agreed by the Whips, that the hon Dr Mkhize will take his place.  Thank you.  You have got 36 minutes to speak.  Thank you. 

DR Z L MKHIZE: (Minister of Health):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I want to thank you for being so considerate, as well as the Whips for understanding the unforeseen and unfortunate circumstances that have delayed our leader Minister Zuma who was due to address Parliament this morning.  I want to try and focus on the matters of concern to us, as the ANC, with the spirit of understanding the sensitivity of the issues that we have to raise, as well as with the hope that these issues will be understood in the sense that we have to raise them because we believe that we should look for solutions.

I want to start by saying, Mr Speaker, that we have come a long way.  Some of us can recall that more than four years ago there was intense tension and conflict between the ANC and the IFP, in particular.  We can recall times that the ANC members in the Cabinet did not attend a number of meetings because of the tension that existed during these Cabinet meetings.  There was tension about the allocation of portfolios.  There was tension because the ANC believed that the matter of the election results had to be settled in court.  That led to a serious crisis and we had to discuss the matter at a number of bilateral meetings.  Those were the first few meetings where the ANC and IFP leadership, particularly those in Cabinet, began to confront each other.  I can recall a few occasions when our Minister for Public Works said that we need to have a meeting with no agenda, but to sit down and find each other.  

Of course, as part of that process the issue of the court case was withdrawn.  That helped to alleviate the tension.  The issue of understanding how to deal with the matter of the capital, as well as the results of the Cabinet Commission, and the agreements that were involved were some of the solutions that were brought about.

The issue of the division of portfolios in committees amongst the political parties, to ensure that the minority parties were represented in those portfolio committees.  At that stage we developed the spirit in this Legislature where we considered the interests of the Province first, and not only the interests of our political parties.  This was important because during every Cabinet meeting there was tension which had made it very difficult to run the Province.  We were aware of the difficulty that the Premier at the time, Dr F T Mdlalose, experienced as a result of these tensions.  We had tension in this House which also resulted that for people outside we were not giving a good reflection of what the Government of this Province looked like.  We also found that whatever disagreements we had, actually caused more tension, more conflicts and deaths on the ground amongst the members of the different political parties.

I can recall that there was a time when the tension was so high that members of this House were talking about an election in this Province.  It was during the days when the discussions about the Constitution were being conducted.  That is the time when we started the discussions on peace between the ANC and the IFP, way back in 1995.  Of course, this proceeded to an extent that around 27 May 1996 these meetings of the 10 aside, we actually found each other.  We then agreed that the manner on how we conduct ourselves was important, not only for our own parties, but more so for this Government, and also more so to actually improve the atmosphere of peace within this Province.  I recall that those were the meetings where even the language that was spoken in this House, we had to make sure that each party had to try to calm its members, so that out of our discussions we could disagree without that being translated or interpreted to mean any hatred or  taking the issues personally amongst the number of members who were present.

We believed that the discussions had led to an understanding that gave rise to peaceful elections in 1996.  We also believe that those discussions, and the understanding, and the co-operation that was established between the ANC and the IFP leadership in particular, and when I say so I am not excluding all the other parties, but I am saying so because those two parties were central to the conflict in this Province.  That kind of relationship did help to improve the image of this Province and did improve the image of the whole government amongst the business sector as well as the investors.

When the National Party withdrew from the Government of Provincial Unity as well as the Government of National Unity, it became important that the message must be sent very clearly that the whole country was not just about to collapse, but also another message to our people to say that the predominantly African parties were not incapable of running this country and this Province.  I must say, that all of us, the leaders and members of political parties, are very proud of ourselves, and more so our members on the ground, were very proud of their leaders and their own Government and Province.

To say that the two years during which time this peace has actually been experienced in this Province, is such that it had given a new culture of understanding and tolerance that we had hoped would last forever.  But when Dr Mdlalose left there were very unfortunate rumours that were spread as to the reasons why he was leaving.  It is the prerogative of the IFP, as the ruling party, to decide who leads and who holds what position.  We will not ever assume that the IFP can have anyone else deciding for it on that matter.  The issues that concerned us, in the media, was the speculation about the reasons for Dr Mdlalose being moved from this Province.  Those speculations concerned us in the sense that it appeared that the problem developed because of the co-operation and the respect that had developed particularly between himself and the Minister for Economic Affairs, Minister Zuma.  His removal was a matter of concern to us and we cannot say that we necessarily agree or confirm that that was the case, but we believed that those rumours were not good for this Province.

Of course, Dr Ngubane was elected and he brought the same kind of spirit that had existed at that stage, and in that case the spirit of collegiality that the Premier spoke about we understood what it meant.  We all had made our commitment to ensuring that this Province comes first before our party political interests.  To an extent there were times when our own members as different parties would be very vociferous and very unhappy about certain situations and in the same way it would happen to the IFP.  The leadership was able to prevail and would sit there and say: "This is the direction we have to take", and there was that spirit of understanding at that level.

There were instances where we had to actually request specific discussions.  For example, where we had the address by His Majesty the King, and Dr Mdlalose, the Premier had made certain statements which at the time we as the ANC, considered they were unrepresentative, that they were actually, party political point scoring.  We therefore felt that they were unfortunate in the sense that at the time they did provoke a response which did not befit the status and the presence of His Majesty the King.  We felt that those comments could have been avoided until such time that we were in the House and we would be able to express our differences during a debate, without fear and without any sense of embarrassment both to our King as our guest, as well as to the public.

We therefore want to point out, Mr Speaker, that we do have concerns.  We want to express these points of view with sensitivity and that we are not raising these issues in any way as a personal attack or as personal issues.  We are raising them as a concern of the people who have had to sit down and agree that this Province must be an example of peace, where peace would actually prevail.  This Province should be an example where democracy, multi-party democracy would be effectively in operation, where we have a number of parties, vigorous debate, but where you have certain principles beyond which we know that the parties and the leaders are going to handle themselves within the confines and parameters of those principles.

We were concerned about the comments that were made by the hon the Premier in thanking His Majesty the King during his opening address.  We of the ANC are of the view that the comments that were made are less than what we would have expected from the Premier, as a father figure of this Province.  We believe that in the presence of guests he should actually have presented a picture where all of us will feel proud that the Premier has thanked His Majesty on our behalf.

That is the issue that we are concerned about.  The unfortunate heckling and so on that then arose as a result of the comments is something that we could have reserved for a date when we were just having a normal debate, and utterances are acceptable.  Therefore we want to raise that as a matter of concern.

Secondly, I want to refer to the speech by the Premier on February 25.  The Premier has spoken about his intention for his Government to follow: collegiality and inclusiveness and unity.  We agree with him.  The next paragraph the Premier spoke about "sufficient consensus of our own stakeholders".  We would agree that that is a principle that we subscribe to.  We agree that "maximum flexibility" should be exercised.  But like Mr Burrows has indicated we disagree with the fact that what has been said here is not what is happening in practice.  The speech, if you read it and listen to it, says something different to what we are seeing on the ground, and to what we are seeing in reality.  I will re-emphasise the fact that we are not raising this matter for party political point scoring, but we are concerned because we have been part of this Province, and have experienced the  tensions and have seen ourselves, members of this House nearly getting to blows, but because of the understanding that we had reached, we had actually managed to avert that situation.  We do not want to move in that direction again.

We agree with the Premier, that we must reform government and "create enthusiasm" and ensure that the "political class in this Province, that can lead by example, irrespective of our political divisions".  We have already reached that kind of level, Mr Speaker, but we are concerned that we might be moving away from it, and that is our concern.

The issue of the sitting, was an embarrassment to this Province.  That actually could have been avoided if the maximum flexibility had been accommodated.  The leaders of the different parties sat down and discussed this issue, the fact that there was no understanding at that level.  I actually indicated that as a lack of sensitivity.  Maximum flexibility was put to the test, and regretfully we believe that it did not pass.  We can still make it, but we need that kind of flexibility.  We would like to see steps that are actually more unifying and will create more the consensus in terms of decision-making.

Over the past 35 weeks a number of things have actually taken place that have been of concern to us.  The tension that appears to be arising in the Cabinet is a matter of concern.  I will not, Mr Speaker, refer to the specific Cabinet issues and debates that we have actually gone into.  Out of respect for the Cabinet I will not give any specific example, but we had those tensions in 1994, we discussed the issues and we had come to a point where the understanding was such that we did not have those tensions any more, but they are coming back.

We have had the issue which was most unfortunate, the Gambling Act.  First the issue of the change of the Act and our concern has been mainly the image of this Government.  How do you say during the process of an allocation of casino licenses you want to then change the rules in midstream?  How do people see this Government?  We are concerned about that, not as outsiders, but as people who are part of this Government who, when the blame is cast on this Government we cannot escape, and that is our concern.

We are also concerned about the publicity in the media in terms of how the Gambling Portfolio was moved from the Premier to the Minister.  Of course we agree with the Premier.  If the Premier believes that this Portfolio needs to go to someone else, then of course the Premier is right, we have got no argument.  The manner in which this whole matter was conducted is a problem to us.  These were issues that we used to debate, discuss and agree on.  We were able to defend before as members of Cabinet irrespective of our political parties.  But we are no longer able to do that, and experiencing problems with the approach to these matters.

New matters have arisen.  The issue of the change of the Portfolio Committees.  It is very clear to us as the ANC that no complaint was received about the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee of Safety and Security.  It is also clear to us that the issue is one of those matters that was beginning to undo the original spirit that had built the unity and understanding of the people of this Province, starting from the leadership in the government.  We believe the approach was provocative and to an extent it was actually meant to drive a wedge between the ANC in particular and the IFP, and we want to know why.  Those kinds of things will do more damage within the few weeks or months that still remain than the amount of benefit we have actually gained over the past few years.

This other issue, the commission of inquiry is also a matter of concern, and we do not believe it is being handled in a proper manner.  Because one is involved, one will not want to go into further details on the matter.  I believe that we need to just record that as one issue and we can look back and say over the past 35 or so days, there has been a lot more tension generated than we have been able to generate over the past two years during our peace discussions.

The ANC remains fully committed to establishing peace, stability and co-operation with the members of the ruling party in this Province.

HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!  INTERJECTIONS

DR Z L MKHIZE: (Minister of Health):  I believe that a discussion between the leaders of our political parties, the senior leaders can actually still save us from this problem, and I do not think this type of tension is the tension we need now before the elections.  Never mind what the expectations are that we have out of the elections.  I believe that we have crossed a mark, and it would be a shame and a disgrace if we as the leaders of this Province actually go back on that.  We owe it to our own people, we owe it to our own Government, we owe it to everybody to say that there was a time when there was a conflict, there was a time when the conflict had come to an end.  Therefore we would like to see a situation where the kind of tension that has been generated over the past few weeks could actually be lessened.  We would like to see a situation where the kind of desperation that is beginning to develop amongst our people and supporters can actually be lessened.  Therefore, we want to say again that the commitment of the ANC to peace and co-operation with the IFP stands.

The one last matter which I must just mention, Mr Speaker, is the issue of the outstanding matter of the position of His Majesty the King as regards the constitutional provision that should have been worked on.  I personally believe that one of the reasons why this matter has been delayed is because of the difficulty that our bilateral discussions, our negotiations have actually been floundering over the past few months.  We all agree that the matter is not a matter of choice, the Province of KwaZulu-Natal has to go and discuss, and put into the Constitution the provisions for the position of His Majesty the King.  No one disagrees with that.  We might disagree on what else is put into the Constitution, and that of course is subject to a debate, but the issue is that we are all agreed.  We are actually wasting time and we should have benefitted from the fact that we are the only Province that has ever been given a mandate by the whole country to go and discuss the issue of its Monarch in its province and put it in a Constitution.  The manner in which we are now raising the matter is we are beginning to make it a national issue.  If we do that we will begin to invite discussions from all the other provinces that do not necessarily need to be part of this discussion.  I am saying that we should not shirk our responsibility, we need to make sure that this matter is attended to.  There is no disagreement there.  I want to say that it still is a matter that our senior leadership should take into account and bring us together.

With those words, Mr Speaker, I want to say to you I do miss those days when there were no tensions in this Government, when there were no tensions in this Province, when there was no tension in Cabinet.  I do miss those days and I hope that with the collective wisdom of the leaders of this Province we could still be taken back to that, not for our sake, but for the sake of our own children.  Thank you very much.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon Premier to reply to the debate.

THE PREMIER:  Mr Speaker, and hon members of this House.  It is indeed a similar privilege for me to reply to the debate on my policy speech.

To start off, I would like to compliment the hon members of this House who participated in this debate.  Minister Shandu raised important issues around education, and one of the crucial issues here is the prioritisation of education, which is accompanied by a shift of emphasis in order to secure excellence.  I share her sentiments that in education we should aim for the enhancement of levels of performance and achievement.  This can only be done, as she puts it, if we conduct education as a business. 

It is also true that for us to develop and make meaningful changes in the quality of life of our people, we should spend more resources in developing skills, and therefore we need to concentrate a larger percentage of our budget on technical education.  There can be no justification whatsoever for the wastage of resources, and I am convinced that the hon Minister will ensure that we have cost savings in place. 

To respond to a few matters which were raised by the hon member Schutte.  We share his sentiments that as a government of the Province we should press for more provincial autonomy.  It is, however, an unfortunate record of history that when we were negotiating the Constitution for this Province, the hon member's party was not overly keen on the issue of provincial autonomy.  Provincial autonomy was misunderstood as meaning cessation.  We laud the Damascus experience which seems to be showing itself today.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE PREMIER:  One would not be accountable for failures, and acts of omission which occurred in the past.  It is regrettable that the hon member was part of this House, and he never took issue with the person or persons who were responsible for providing leadership in this Province.  How can I be held responsible for lack of delivery in certain respects?  Give me time and you will witness a difference.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE PREMIER:  The failure of tourism in this Province cannot be placed at my doorstep.  I am surprised to hear that the IFP in this House was mesmerised by the ANC, whatever that means.  This time round that will not happen.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE PREMIER:  The alleviation of poverty is a central issue for us in this part of the country, and we support the inputs made by the hon member, Mr Aulsebrook.  Our role as a Provincial Government in making our inputs into the broad debate around the development of the La Mercy Airport and our deep water ports is a crucial issue.  It is for this Province to engage in a vibrant debate around these issues, and present a cogent and coherent plan of action to National Government.  I am prepared to lead that team from the Province which will struggle for the development of our La Mercy Airport and our deep sea ports.  As a Province, we have joint responsibility to contribute to the development of the waterfront.

To respond to the contribution made by the hon member Mr Burrows.  It is for this House to revive that parliamentary system of a vote of no-confidence.  It is not for me to say how it must be done, and when it must be done.  I want to make a point about consistency.  I remain consistent.  I remain committed to noble principles.  What must be remembered is that at no stage have I been inflexible in the observance of the Rules of this House.  There is a mistaken notion that I flouted the Rules of this House which govern the sittings of this House.  This is a clear case of lack of understanding and appreciation of the fact that there is separation of powers between the Executive and the Legislature.  As a student of political science, and as a student of history, and as a student of constitutional law, I know about that.

The point is, I had nothing to do with the implementation of the Rules.  I am a member of the Executive.  I lead the Executive, and I have nothing to do with the normal day to day operations of the House.  It is the Speaker of this House who then takes responsibility, working together with the Whips.  I was very magnanimous to accede to the request by the hon Speaker to meet with the Whips over this matter of the third day sitting of the Provincial Parliament.  I listened patiently, and I pointed out that I do not draw up the Rules of procedure in this House.  I am a servant of the Rules of this House.  It was indeed the hon Speaker of this House, who resolved the matter on the second day of the sitting of the House at Ulundi, and he ruled on the matter, and we observed his ruling.

The lack of a work ethic among the civil servants has been referred to, with specific reference to public servants in the open plan offices at Ulundi, eating during working hours.  The responsibility rests, in the first place, with us as members of the Executive.  I believe those civil servants who show gross negligence should in fact be dealt with by the respective line Ministers, working together with the heads of departments.  It is not the responsibility of the Premier to go around looking for people who are not behaving in an acceptable manner.  It is the responsibility of each one of us in this House to take issue so that appropriate corrective measures are taken.  I am surprised that the hon member refers to issues of collegiality in Cabinet.  Does his party serve in the Cabinet?  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER

THE PREMIER:  If Ministers in this Province fail to respond to phone calls, and to other forms of communication this is a matter which will have to be remedied by them.

The hon member Mr Rehman emphasised the importance of partnership with business in order to secure development in this Province.  I agree with him.

The hon member Mr Rajbansi emphasised the issue of discipline among educators.  As a teacher myself, I know that teaching and learning is discipline in itself.  There cannot be any effective tuition where chaos reigns.

The hon member raised his concerns about lack of career paths for members of the minority group in the Indian community, key personnel who have now been poached by other provinces, such as Gauteng.  All I can say is that we regret that state of affairs, and we are committed to a rectification of that brain drain out of this Province.

The hon member Mr Mkhwanazi should rest assure that we shall get on top of the crime in this Province.  Criminals will not enjoy rights over and above the citizens of this 

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE PREMIER:  We shall join hands with the National Minister of Safety and Security in finding ways and means of dealing with crime.  We strongly believe that local authorities need to play a meaningful role in the fight against crime.

The hon member Mrs Downs, who seems to have concerns about the fulfilment of the goals we have set ourselves.  May we assure you, hon member, that we shall indeed live up to the high expectations that we have set ourselves.  No matter how taxing that route will be, no matter how much effort it will require of this human body, but indeed it will be done for the best interests of this Province.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE PREMIER:  I am not quite certain why the hon member was so generous with the use of words, talking of fiascos, and then sounding warnings.  Thank you for sounding the alarm bells.  Thank you.  This is a teacher who knows the meaning of the bell when it rings.

Hon Speaker and hon members, no fiascos whatsoever have characterised our 35 days in office.  There is no doubt that we acted in the best interests of this Province when we made the pronouncement of our intention to take over the Portfolio of Gambling.  There was no question of lack of consistency in the matter.  In my policy speech I expressed an intention, which intention had to be guided by the provisions of the Constitution.  Section 137 of our Constitution, on page 74 lays down the procedure that I had to follow, and indeed I have subsequently followed the procedure after the intention.

The commission of inquiry into allegations of gun running in this Province is a matter of concern to all of us.  It is a matter where I was duty bound and honour bound to take appropriate action as Premier of this Province.  When serious allegations which might impact on the peace process in this Province were made against a person holding a high political office, it was my responsibility to ensure that those allegations are tested for their credibility, or otherwise through a commission of inquiry in terms of the principles of national justice in this country.  A person is presumed innocent until proven guilty.  I could not have acted otherwise, but as a person who acts in a responsible manner, I had to do that, and nothing else.  I carry the responsibility of giving the hon Minister the benefit of the doubt, and this is why I have chosen that legitimate course of action.

The hon member Mr Waugh raised issues of the motion on the efficiency of the police.  We appreciate the fact of your concerns around lack of efficiency in members of the police services.  Yes, we need to address these issues.  At the same time, we should realise that members of the South African Police Service need to be treated with respect.  They are human beings who sacrifice their lives, and yet when they are killed callously hardly any politician from any Legislature has a word of compliment or a word of sympathy for their next-of-kin.  The conditions under which members of the South African Police Service operate needs to be reviewed.

Those of you who enjoy the rare privilege of having members of the Static Unit keeping guard at your homes do not realise that those men and women, in uniform, working 12 hour shifts still remain human beings, and the morale of the Static Unit is very low, and concerningly low.  I commit myself, working together with my colleague the hon Inkosi Ngubane, to highlight these issues and the plight of the police in this Province.  

I am really thrilled to hear that the New National Party has seen the light at the end of the tunnel.  [LAUGHTER]  That the issue of His Majesty the King must be addressed.  

AN HON MEMBER:  Have you been asleep all the time?

THE PREMIER:  Have we forgotten that there was a time when such harsh words were uttered: "He is not my King, he is your King".

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE PREMIER:  And he must operate north of the Tugela River.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE PREMIER:  Has that changed?  I would like to make a point here, that it was not a miracle or by accident that the Interim Constitution of 1993 provided for the outstanding issues around the role and status of the King to be addressed in the Provincial Constitution.  This was part of the deal that was reached on the matter.  This was part of the agreement for peace and reconciliation which was signed at the Union Buildings on 19 April 1994.  It was this very House that adopted the Provincial Constitution.  It was this very House that later on somersaulted, and contested the Constitution in the Constitutional Court.  It was the Government of this country that engaged the services of the best legal brains in the country to contest the legality or otherwise of the contribution which was made by this Province to draft a Constitution.

I am really surprised today to hear that we can go back on that route when we now have a permanent Constitution of this country, and this is the Constitution of this country which treats traditional leadership in a matter of lines.  I believe we need once more to reach consensus as a House on how we draw up legislation which will accommodate the role and status of His Majesty the King as the constitutional head of this Provincial Government.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE PREMIER:  I do not know what is meant by a person being a traditionalist.  We live in a country which accepts that we have cultural differences.  We come from different cultural backgrounds.  We are indeed part of that beautiful tapestry of different cultures.  It is not disgraceful at all for a person to live up to the precepts of his culture, and it is insulting indeed to describe a person as a traditionalist.  I observe the culture of my people, and I am entitled to do so.

May I sound a note of caution to the media.  Press freedom should be exercised with restraint, and accountability.  The media does not have that latitude of stirring up ethnic confrontation in this Province.  I take exception to libelous statements being made about me that I am stirring up tension in this Province.  I take exception to what appeared in the Sunday World where I was described as a warlord.  Indeed I shall secure relief to which I am entitled as a citizen of this country.  I will take the appropriate course of action to deal with that matter.  I take exception to that cartoon where I was depicted as a mad cap wielding "iwisa" [knobkerrie] in the air.  Cultural accoutrements are part of our culture.  Cultural accoutrements make a man, and I will never threaten anybody.  It has never been part of my culture to threaten anybody.

Abantu abangakaze beluse bayobonakala ngemisebenzi yabo, bayobonakala ngezinhlamba ababhocabhoca ngazo abanye abantu. [People who have never herded cattle will always be identified through their work.  They will be identified through the slanderous words they use to insult other people].

THE SPEAKER:  Ngicela amalunga aziphathe kahle, kube nokuziphatha okuhle, kubekhona ukulalela.  [I am asking members to behave themselves].  There should be good behaviour, you should listen.

THE PREMIER:  The outstanding issue of the border dispute as referred to by the hon member Mr Gwala, the border dispute between KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape is a matter really which must be taken forward at a joint sitting of the two Cabinets.  The Cabinet of KwaZulu-Natal and the Cabinet of the Eastern Cape.

I would now like to respond to the contribution made to this debate by the hon member Dr Mkhize, where he spelt out the background of reconciliation which was developed in this Province, over the years, and the sacrifice which was made by the different parties, and I say well done.  That was a responsible way of acting in the best interests of a Province which was ravaged by political violence.  Yes, you did the right thing, but the point is this.

I have a responsibility as leader of this Province to lead and not to frustrate the wishes and the trust of the citizens of this Province.  I shall exercise that leadership with responsibility, and remain accountable to the people of this Province.  The fact that in the past it was possible to work in a certain way under the leadership of my predecessors does not in any way suggest to me that I must be their replica.  I am not a duplicate of Dr Frank Mdlalose, neither am I a duplicate of Dr B S Ngubane.  Judge me on my merits as a person, do not judge me against parameters set by certain individuals, who operated in the manner that they did through whatever dictates of policy.  There is a change of policy.  There is a change of direction.  I have a responsibility to lead this Province.

I am not going to abdicate my responsibility.  In the National Government the majority party has a responsibility to govern and indeed they are governing.  In this Province the IFP is the majority party, it carries the responsibility to govern and deliver services to the people.  This I am committed to do.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order please!  Order, hon members.  Hon member Mr Gcabashe.

MR S J GCABASHE:  Yes, Mr Speaker, I would like to know if the Premier would like to take a question.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon Premier, would you like to take the question?

THE PREMIER:  Not at all.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER

THE PREMIER:  Reference has been made to the remarks.  Kudela owaziyo ukuthi ubani lona ongichapha ngaleyonhlamba, ukungelusi kuyinkinga kuyode kuzikhombisa.  [Happy is he who knows the one who is insulting me with those slanderous words.  Lack of cattle herding experience will always reveal itself as a problem].

Reference has been made to the vote of thanks that I delivered on the occasion of the address by His Majesty the King.  It was His Majesty the King who raised issues and I was duty bound to respond to those issues in the spirit of Parliament.  I do not agree with the contention that issues should be reserved for a private debate.  This is the parliamentary forum, and these matters have to be addressed in this forum, and be recorded for posterity in the Hansard.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE PREMIER:  I did nothing else but to respond in a manner befitting the presentation of His Majesty the King.  It is important to point out that those of us in the Executive carry a responsibility to ensure that the wheels of government turn.  At times we are compelled as a collective to take decisions which may not be palatable to all of us.  This is part of the democratic process.  In keeping with the democratic process we record the concerns of members on any issue inasmuch as in the National Government concerns are recorded for posterity.

It is unfair to place at my doorstep the issue of the Portfolio of Safety and Security.  I have no responsibility over the composition of parliamentary portfolio committees.  I am a member of the Executive.  I have not suddenly become involved in parliamentary work.  It is the Whips that deal with these matters.  It is the Rules Committee that deals with these matters.  It is precisely why I ruled in Cabinet that this matter should not serve in Cabinet, it does not belong there at all.  Now what have I done?  Was I expected to entertain this matter so as to further create that bad impression of myself?  I have nothing to do with the way portfolio committees are constituted.  This is a matter I repeat which must be addressed by the Whips, and also the Rules Committee.

It is important for me to state for the record that I have dealt with matters of gambling in strict observance of this Constitution.  I expressed my intention to take over the Portfolio.  Thereafter I consulted with the Minister of Economic Affairs and Tourism.  This was followed by the tabling of a memorandum which served before the Cabinet Committee, and it was subsequently ratified by Cabinet.  A government notice is due to be issued on the matter.

As far as the Amendment Bill to harmonise provincial legislation with national legislation is concerned, this matter has been given a fair amount of debate, and we had to reach finality over the matter.  It could not go on indefinitely.  The chief state law advisor of this Parliament advised on matters of procedure, guided by Rule 120 which says:

	No bill shall be introduced in this House unless it has first been published by the Secretary in the Provincial Gazette; provided that this rule shall not apply -

	(a)	to money bills.

The draft Amendment Bill in question was in fact published in the Provincial Gazette at the instance of Cabinet.  This is the Rule book.  It does not say so.  The Bill which was published in the Provincial Gazette appeared there through a directorate in a Government Department of Finance.  Rule 120 does not make that provision, neither does it give that exception.  The appropriate course of action therefore, after thorough debate of the matter on more than two occasions was for me, as a responsible servant of this Province, to direct as follows:

1.	To rescind the wrong Cabinet decision which was taken on 3 February.

2.	To withdraw the Amendment Bill which was published at the instance of Cabinet, and not by the Secretary of the Legislature.

3.	To give guidance that the appropriate course of action is for the draft Bill which we tabled for approval in principle by Cabinet on 10 February, that this is the Bill after translation to comply with the requirements of this House, be introduced into Parliament.

This is exactly what we have done, and I do not believe we have erred in any manner.

Mr Speaker, and hon members of this House.  In my concluding remarks I would like to make a statement that I shall honour the responsibilities of my office.  I am called upon to serve in a leadership role.  I am called upon to act in a responsible manner, and this I will do so help me God.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  We have come to the end of this debate.  The House adjourns for lunch till 2 o'clock this afternoon.

	THE BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE SUSPENDED AT 12:42
	RESUMED AT 14:08

THE SPEAKER:  We now move on to item number 8.2 on the Order Paper, General Budget Debate.  A list has been forwarded, and it is on my desk.  I hope that all members have the list of speakers.  I will now call upon hon member Mr Makhaye to present a report on behalf of the Portfolio Committee of Finance.  Thank you.

KWAZULU-NATAL APPROPRIATION BILL, 1999/2000. (BUDGET DEBATE)

MR D H MAKHAYE:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I present the report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance.  It is divided into two.  There is a budget review 1999/2000, and there is the Finance Portfolio Committee Report.  

Let me apologise, members of Parliament will in due course be receiving this report.  It is still being printed.

UKhilani izolo uthe kimina sengabalana nezimali zalePhalamende ngaze ngafakwa izibuko.  OKhilani bayathanda ukuzikhulumela nje.  Thinake ikakhulukazi esingakwazi ukukhuluma bese sithula siyizimvu thina.  [UHLEKO]

TRANSLATION:  Yesterday Khilani said to me I have made it here with all the funds of Parliament to an extent that I have been made to wear spectacles.  Khilani and others just like to speak.  We, especially those of us who are not good at speaking, we just keep quiet like sheep.  [LAUGHTER]  T/E

Mr Speaker, as a preliminary to the budget process, the Portfolio Committee delivered questionnaires to all departments concerning their management of expenditure during 1998/1999, and the likely impacts on the budget for 1999/2000.  The response to the questions was positive, and constitutes a significant improvement on previous years.

A general summary of the responses indicates:

1.	Systems of financial control are in operation and are being applied in a satisfactory manner.  Responsibility managers are in place and levels of skills and compliance are improving.

2.	Departmental committees meet regularly to review expenditure controls and the impact of expenditure on current budget and the Department of Finance monitors budget compliance.

3.	The ability to reduce staff is limited, because no retrenchment tool is available as yet.

4.	Departments are extremely conscious of the need to combat fraud and corruption and to take whatever appropriate action to warn staff of the penalties for participating in such crime.  It is clear that there is a cost, but such expenditure is essential to deter and prevent future occurrences.

5.	There is no doubt that the delivery of services has been affected by budget constraints.  This includes an inability to incur capital expenditure and improve facilities, but even of greater concern is the limited amount of maintenance funds available and the consequential deterioration of the Province's assets and hence their usefulness.

6.	Continuing demand for services means it will make it difficult to eliminate infrastructural backlogs and service delivery.

7.	Most departments have or are introducing output statistics which will enable Parliament to better evaluate whether value for money is being received.

8.	Sub-optimal deployment of personnel on the staff component continues to be a problem in some departments.

9.	Determining the best own sources of revenue and the collection thereof remains a problem.  Regular reviews of all tariffs are essential.  Innovative attitudes are necessary to promote income sources.

The departmental responses all indicate a positive attitude to expenditure control and promotion of income sources and this augers well for the outcome of 1999/2000 Budget.

The Portfolio Committee conducted 15 hearings at which Ministers and senior officials participated.  The results of these hearings are summarised in this report.

VOTE 1	:	PREMIER

Concern was expressed at expenditure of the KwaZulu-Natal Air Service.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department address the terms of the contract urgently and takes steps to increase the revenue for the service by hiring out aircraft.

The matter of Y2K compliance is an essential element of continued good governance.  No funds have been allocated thereto.

RECOMMENDATION:

Steps should be taken to monitor this issue.

The Department of Health is responsible for its Y2K compliance.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department should report to the Cabinet on steps taken to ensure its compliance.

Once the Public Finance Management Bill has come into effect, the Budgets of Central and Provincial Government be approved on a programme by programme basis.  This precludes the past system of virement between programmes.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department of Finance must convey the implications and requirements of this Bill to all departments.

VOTE 2	:	PROVINCIAL PARLIAMENT

The key concern is that once the fixed costs have been expended, there will be a very limited amount available for Parliament to perform its constitutional functions and obligations, and serious doubt has been expressed about the adequacy of this amount.  However, the potential for effecting savings needs to be explored fully and a thorough personnel audit must also be done to identify areas where personnel savings can be achieved.

In addition, maintenance costs for the provincial parliamentary buildings have to be provided for.  The financial reporting systems require review and close co-operation with Treasury is recommended.

RECOMMENDATION:

1.	The potential for effecting savings be explored fully.
2.	Personnel audit be carried out.
3.	Treasury and Legislature hold further discussions with a view to strengthening internal audit.
4.	Systems for financial reporting be set appropriately.
5.	Costs for building maintenance be provided.

VOTE 3	:	AGRICULTURE

The allocation of additional funds to the Department has significantly alleviated problems which it experienced in the 1998/1999 financial year.  Noteworthy are:

(a)	The fact that significant high potential and developed irrigation projects remain unutilised due to land and other disputes.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department must take action to reduce the waste of resource potential.

(b)	There are 445 personnel employed as dipping assistants at a cost of R14 million per annum, many of whom are substantially under-utilised.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department should take immediate steps to offer voluntary severance packages to under-utilised employees.

(c)	The R46,7 million conditional grant for the development of rural agricultural food production will greatly facilitate rural extension services.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department should take adequate steps to ensure that this money is spent fruitfully during the ensuing financial year.

VOTE 4	:	ECONOMIC AFFAIRS AND TOURISM

(a)	Expenditure in this Department is mainly related to parastatals:

	(i)	KWAZULU TRANSPORT

		While a number of contracts have been awarded to KZT and others are anticipated, the purchase of new buses (required to comply with the terms of the contract) and the consequential burden of finance charges may have an impact on the financial situation.  The Committee expressed concern that an amount of R10 million for cash collection equipment during 1998/1999 was reallocated to help overcome the deficit without approval of Parliament.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department should monitor and ensure that the Treasury get a financial update on a monthly basis.

	(ii)	KWAZULU-NATAL ITHALA DEVELOPMENT FINANCE CORPORATION

		The erstwhile KFC continues under new legislation approved in March 1999 with its name changed to KwaZulu-Natal Ithala Development Finance Corporation.  The transformation process is proceeding.  However, it was noted that difficulties are still being experienced with the granting of an exemption under the Banking Act for the Ithala Bank.

RECOMMENDATION:

In view of the importance of this bank to rural communities and low income groups, the Minister is requested to expedite a meeting with the National Minister of Finance to facilitate the granting of the required exemption.

Revenue collection for housing commitments is improving, but collection from SMMEs still remains of great concern.

RECOMMENDATION:

Urgent action be taken to resolve the matter.

	(iii)	SHARKS BOARD

		The reduction in subsidies has resulted in increased shark meshing costs being passed to local government.  It is noted that this increased burden will be problematic for local authorities already pressurised by competing demands.

	(iv)	TOURISM

		Tourism is one of the Province's major economic generators.  Despite the increase in the tourism budget it remains inadequate for the development of tourism and the functioning of the tourism authority.  The major development of King Shaka Airport together with the economic development of the existing land for port and petro-chemical purposes remain a challenge.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Minister should endeavour to take this matter forward in the coming financial year.


VOTE 5    :	  EDUCATION

A major concern is the high percentage of personnel costs being 93%, leaving inadequate funding for essential non-personnel costs.  In particular for:

1.	School textbooks and stationery.

2.	Capital works: although projects to the value of R446 million had been identified, it was only possible to allocate R61 million to capital expenditure, including a conditional grant of R25 million.

3.	Provision for learners in need of special school education.

Many schools are in a dilapidated condition and urgent attention will need to be given to these institutions to avoid further deterioration, and no funds are available to address the large backlog of classrooms required.

It is pleasing that the Department made a concerted effort during the 1998/1999 financial year to curb expenditure and eradicate fraud and corruption.

The Education Management Information Project, undertaken to develop an accurate database of information pertaining to college/school educators and non-college/school educators and learners, needs to be finalised without further delay as this is crucial for budgetary control.

There is still a critical staff shortage in many key positions of finance and urgent attention must be given to this in order to improve systems of financial control.

The Committee is also concerned about the lack of details on a programme for arts and culture.

Therefore it recommends that:

1.	The Department should reduce personnel expenditure and make savings.

2.	The Department must provide information on how many teachers are involved in side businesses.

3.	The Department should expedite the completion of the Education Management Information Project, cost the results, and those funds should go to non-personnel expenditure.

VOTE 6    :    FINANCE

The increase in the Finance vote relates exclusively to the R95 million increase in the debt repayment reserve which for 1999/2000 provides an amount of R505,642 million.

The Finance Department must be congratulated on its achievements on establishing financial control over the provincial expenditure in the face of very severe budget constraints and the over-expenditure of the previous years.

It is also noted that as a further instrument to combat corruption, biometric access technology has already been tested and is currently ready for implementation and operational evaluation.  The Department is confident that this technology will make a major practical contribution to improving security over provincial funds.

RECOMMENDATION:

1.	The Department should improve on financial control and use its expertise for all departments.

2.	The Department should give particular attention to implementing and expanding internal audit to all departments.

VOTE 7    :    HEALTH

(a)	The Committee appreciates that the deficit has been reduced from over R600 million to R33 million.  However, this deficit remains a concern.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department must take urgent steps to eradicate this deficit.

(b)	The Committee is concerned that the Department indicated that it would require a further R300 million in 1999/2000 financial year.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department must ensure that the expenditure remains within the allocated funds.

(c)	The Minister of Finance has made a special allocation of R25 million for special maintenance.

RECOMMENDATION:

1.	A strategic plan be drawn up to ensure that this amount is allocated to the most deserving projects.

2.	Steps must be taken to ensure that the expenditure is incurred timeously.

(d)	The Committee noted proposals under consideration for improved utilisation of hospitals and the consequential improvement in revenue.  National legislation may be required in this regard.



RECOMMENDATION:

Urgent steps need to be taken to implement this project.

VOTE 8    :  LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOUSING

The decrease in the total Budget is directly related to the direct allocation to local authorities from National Finance of their equitable share of revenue.


Concerns are:

1.	The transfer of provincial staff from the Province to Local Authorities while funds are allocated in the 1999/2000 budget.

RECOMMENDATION:

The process must be satisfactorily concluded during this financial year.

2.	The decrease in the allocation of funds to social empowerment of some R6 million.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department should work towards the reprioritisation of funds for this purpose in the next financial year.

VOTE 9    :    SAFETY AND SECURITY

The largest portion of this relatively small budget is a transfer to the Peace Committee.

Concerns are:

1.	That very little detailed information is available on how that money is spent.

2.	The possible appointment of further senior personnel without clear indication of the future of the Peace Committee.

RECOMMENDATION:

1.	The possible appointment of a Director not to be proceeded with pending a decision on the future of the Peace Committee.

2.	Urgent investigation into whether the Peace Committee will still be required after 2 June be undertaken with a view to suspension of the remaining funds.

VOTE 11   :  TRADITIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS

PROGRAMME 2  :  TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS

The main concerns are:

1.	Possible inadequate funding for the increased salaries that will be payable to Amakhosi from 1 April 1999, as well as the further possibility of an increase of 10% from 1 July 1999.  Of course concerning Amakhosis that are not employed by the Government.  [LAUGHTER]

2.	Capacity constraints of Tribal Authority Administrative structures arising from the withdrawal of certain services previously provided by Magistrate's Courts.

RECOMMENDATION:

The capacity of tribal authority administrative structures needs to receive attention.

PROGRAMME 3  :  ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS

There are two areas of concern:

1.	A new function will be taken over from the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry in the course of the year, without any increase in funding, that is the issuing of landfill site permits.  This may require considerable funding to carry out the function effectively.

2.	There are R7,48 billion's worth of projects in the Province subject to Environmental Impact Assessments (EIAs), as required by law.  Due to the lack of capacity within the Department to expedite and finalise such EIA applications, this may adversely affect investment in the Province.

RECOMMENDATION:

1.	No function should be accepted unless personnel and funds necessary to carry out that function are also transferred with the function.

2.	The Cabinet be requested to rationalise the EIA function to a department considered relevant.

VOTE 12   :    TRANSPORT

The substantial increase in the transport budget will facilitate significant expenditure on community access roads.  It will also enable a significant increase in maintenance and rehabilitation work on the provincial road network.  Whilst there remain severe budget constraints, the Department will be able to operate far more effectively in the coming year and increase its services.

The Department's law enforcement activities have also been significantly bolstered and already have shown a commendable decrease in the number of fatalities on the provincial road network.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Department should concentrate on maintaining existing infrastructure rather than creating new.


VOTE 13   :    SOCIAL WELFARE

Of concern remains the lack of clear evidence as to the number of pensioners being paid, the trend in new pension applications and also attrition due to deaths.  The Department suffers from a shortage of vehicles impacting on the ability of its personnel to operate effectively in the various sectors of social welfare services.  Re-registration of social pensioners is said to have reached a level of around 50% giving indications of savings which will enable the Department to remain within its 1999/2000 budget of R3,797 billion.

The low number of approved child support grants is cause for concern.

RECOMMENDATION: 

1.	The Department must provide the amount of savings achieved to date.

2.	There must be regular reports on SOCPEN operation.

3.	The re-registration process must be expedited.

4.	The Department must show the exact amount paid to pensioners per month and the surplus left and account for such surplus.

5.	The Department must take steps to ensure that the suspense account is reconciled promptly at the end of the month, and the statements should be provided to the Finance Department for internal audit.

VOTE 14   :    WORKS

The Department needs to be commended for the improvement in its working relationships with other departments, especially Education and Health, as well as its efforts to improve its administrative and financial controls.

The main concerns are:

1.	The inadequate recovery of rental from government-owned property.

2.	Continued budget constraints resulting in inadequate repairs and maintenance of government-owned buildings.

RECOMMENDATION:

1.	The Department should take immediate steps to ensure proper control and collection of accrued rentals from government houses, whether occupied by civil servants or not.

2.	The Department must provide a register of all government houses, their location and condition, occupants of those houses and rent paid.

3.	Funds be prioritised for optimal use.

VOTE 16   :    ROYAL HOUSEHOLD

The Committee notes that the budget of the Royal household has finally been consolidated into a single vote.

RECOMMENDATION:

The Committee supports the concept of appointment of the Director-General as the Accounting Officer and Programme Managers in the Department of Agriculture and of Works.

RECOMMENDATIONS TO ALL DEPARTMENTS

These are general recommendations.

1.	Where there is a problem of sub-optimal deployment of personnel, the department should consider paying out severance packages to such employees.

2.	Line function departments should concentrate on maintaining existing infrastructure rather than creating new.

3.	The Department of Finance is dealing with the question of eliminating tender procedure delays and revised regulations will be promulgated shortly.

Mr Speaker, this is the fifth time that we are presenting this report to this Parliament, and in the process of those five years as a Committee we have matured.  At the beginning there was a lot of suspicion among ourselves, there was a lot of politicking, but I am happy to report that in the past five years we have been able to outgrow these negative tendencies.  Perhaps in this Committee we have created a framework of close co-operation between parties without, of course, surrendering the independence of political parties.

We also thank the Minister who, in this particular time of budget hearings, all of them from Magalela agasele njengeNgonyama, uHlabangani, uMantshinga abafokazana abaxoshe. Siya kuBaba uNxamalala, uMsholozi nabanye oNgqongqoshe, bavelile kwikomiti noMntwana waKwa-Minya uvelile kulekomiti.

TRANSLATION:  All of them from Magalela agasele njengeNgonyama, uHlabangane, uMantshinga abafokazana abaxoshe, to Mr Nxamalala Msholozi and other Ministers appeared before this committee and the Prince of Kwa-Minya appeared before this committee. T/E

We also thank the Chairs and members of different portfolio committees for the work they have done throughout the year, because this report is the product of what they have been doing all along.  We also thank members of the Treasury, especially the DDG.  We have got such close relations with the members of that Executive.  

Perhaps this concept of separation of the Executive and Parliament must be augmented to also include the co-operation between Parliament and the Executive, who are not mutually repulsive.  Of course, we are not going to sacrifice the independence of each institution.

THE SPEAKER:  I will ask the hon member to wind up.

MR D H MAKHAYE:  We also thank the accounting officers and officials from different departments who have come to a correct conclusion that the probings of this Committee are not aimed at scandalising them, but are aimed at saving the funds for the people of this Province, KwaZulu-Natal.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Let us move on.  I will now call upon the hon Minister Mr Ndebele.  You have 20 minutes to speak.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  This is the last Budget Debate for this Legislature, and it is fitting that we look at where we have come from, and where we are at present, and what the new government is going to inherit.

I was a bit perturbed when during a visit to Empangeni last week, I was talking to a priest who had conducted a service at a school, and when he asked the pupils whether they ever pray for the government, one pupil said: "No, I look at the government and I pray for the people of the Province".  [LAUGHTER] I reflected on this.  What does it mean?  But when I listened at the budget presentation in Cape Town, and the budget presentation in Ulundi, I think one could see where the dog was buried.

The Minister of Finance, Mr Trevor Manuel, singled out the Minister of Finance, KwaZulu-Natal for special praise, because we were down, down, down this time last year.  But this time the matter was completely different.  The Minister of Provincial Affairs, Mr Valli Moosa, went even further by saying that he would be requesting the Minister of Finance, KwaZulu-Natal to assist the other Ministers of Finance in the other provinces to show them the way of this recovery, and those that have not fallen down, not to get into the same trap.  But the matter did not end there.  At Ulundi His Majesty also made special mention of the Minister of Finance to say he had done very well to enable this Province to recover.  That was the talk in business and everything else.

But we did not read about that in the newspapers the following day, because we are very good at shooting ourselves in the foot.  What we did immediately after the budget, was to bury all those good things that had been done, because besinwaphuzana lapha [We were at each others throats] by a debate that was totally unnecessary.  That is what dominated the press and it was not of the media's making, it was of our own making.  Talking about the financial health of the Province, we are talking about the political health of the Province.  That is what His Majesty talked about, but he was told no, no, no, we are not there yet.

That is something quite serious because then we have been piling negative things, after going all this distance that we have gone.  We call this a natalitial Province.  Miller understands me, he speaks English.  Natalitial means that which gives birth.  That is why Natal is called natalitial.  A celestial province.  uZulu, iZulu, heaven and it gives birth.  We were on track and we must come back on track to be this celestial province, this natalitial Province.

The problem with this Province is that you cannot correct this if there is a sore that you have not yet cured, and the sore is that there are nine provinces in this country and only one of them still talks of political violence.  Only one of them.  There is criminal violence elsewhere, but only one of them still has political violence and it is KwaZulu-Natal.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  It is criminal violence. 

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  It is only here where we still talk of political violence, alubhadwa  [Do not set your foot there] and all those things.  That is the skeleton that is in our cupboard and we need to take very bold steps to cure it.  We have taken those bold steps, and what we are saying is that we are not going to allow a reversal of those steps that we have taken.

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Mr Speaker, will the hon Minister take a question?

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order!  Order please.  Hon member Mr Mthiyane.

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Can the hon member take a question, Mr Speaker?

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  No.

THE SPEAKER:  Are you prepared?

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  No.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Continue, Mr Minister.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  We have taken very bold steps and we are not going to allow those steps to be reversed.  They are being reversed now but we are definite and very confident that we are going to proceed with establishing peace here.  We are certain about that because members on this side are fully committed to that peace.  The overwhelming majority of members on that side are committed to peace, and their businesses are committed to peace.  Workers and church leaders are committed to peace.  Therefore we cannot fail and we are going to push for it.

It is that sore that we must exorcise from this body politic of KwaZulu-Natal so that anything that we achieve will be recognised and it will be said: "Oh but yes, he has done well in the budget - but; he has done well there - but".  The assurance that we have is in the fact that we have now said the president of the ANC and the president of the IFP must now directly lead this process, not through some proxies, but they must lead this process directly.  We are confident that it is going to proceed in that particular way because no matter what differences there might be, those two men who have got the capacity to look beyond the very narrow interests that are being presented today, these 35 days.

The presentation that we have put forward has indicated that we need comprehensive peace in this Province.  That will include also looking at the past.  That is why we talk of special amnesty.  Sometimes it gets so distorted and I want to explain it.  Special amnesty, special because the cut off date was 10 May 1994 and therefore anything beyond that is special, but it goes beyond what the TRC demanded.  It says those in this Province will have to come forward and say: "Who gave you arms?  Where are they?  Where are you hiding them?  You ANC, you IFP, you National Party, you DP, where are you hiding them?  Put them here".  That was the recipe for peace in Zimbabwe.  They put them there.  It is no use saying that they shake hands and do things, let us put those arms there and we will do it.  Right.  The surrendering of weapons is very critical to this.

We on our side are very cognisant of course that we are new in government.  Since the creation of time, it is the first time in these past 48 months or so that you have got three Ministers of Government.  Before that they were never there.  But that is not true of the National Party, it has been governing this Province for a very long time, but it is not true of the IFP, it has been governing this Province even before the IFP was founded.  In 1972 you were already running education, you were already running welfare, you were already running agriculture and all these other things, and then you added police and so forth.  You have been there for 27 years.  We cannot be told that in 80 days you are going to do a dramatic thing that you were not able to do in 27 years.  [LAUGHTER]

The Premier was Minister of Education from 1990, in charge of 5 000 schools out of 5 600.  There are only 336 Indian schools and 200 and something for whites, the rest were under the Premier from 1990.  It cannot be dramatic with Dr Zulu being deputy.  It cannot be dramatic now with the new recipe can now change in the last 90 days.  It is impossible.  [LAUGHTER]

We as the ANC said we are going to lead by example.  We said we wanted to be a political force in 1994, and we became one.  We received more than a million votes just as the IFP received more than a million votes.  Got less than two million just like the IFP got less than two million.  But we went further and said that by 1996 we want to become a territorial force, and out of the 65 TLCs I think we missed about 13 or so of the smaller ones.  The big ones we got.  But what did we say?  We said where the ANC is in charge, where there is a mayor, we will ensure that there is free political activity.  You saw it at Umlazi.  There is only one councillor from the IFP there.  ANC everything, including the water that the hon Mr Mthiyane drinks, is ANC.  [LAUGHTER]  But he has got complete political freedom there.  He can run a rally any time.  He will not be told to go and apply through this council and that council.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order please.  Let us give him a hearing.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  If you are going to Howick, we said we are creating islands of peace, and there are those islands of peace in this Province.  Where you have the ANC, you have got a mayor and there are islands of peace.  We said everybody must be free.  In Howick.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  In Richmond, yes.  In Richmond.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  In Richmond anybody can go to Richmond, yes.  So we have created those islands of peace.  Therefore we have demonstrated that we are ready to govern this Province.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order please!  Order!  I will ask members to behave as hon members please.  Thank you.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  In the peace package that we have presented and that we are going to be discussing, we have said the ANC must not come with its jacket there and shake hands and say that it is over.  No, you must bring the allies with you, and in the ANC we will bring the COSATU - family with us.  We will bring the South African Communist Party - family.  We will bring SANCO.  We will bring SASCO.  We will bring the COSAS.  Whatever remnant of an SDU we will bring it there and say it is part of the peace.  We will not say: "No, it is not me now, it is SANCO.  No, it is not me, it is COSATU".  We expect the IFP in this process to also bring UWUSA, to also bring the House of Traditional Leaders, to also bring those traditional leaders that are aligned to the IFP, and say: "All of us are now there".  It will be of no use to say: "No, I am IFP, I am not involved in violence, it is only the Amakhosi".  No.

That is the comprehensive peace that we are talking about, and jointly between the ANC and IFP we will then say police must now know the war is over, partisanship is over.  The prosecuting authority must prosecute.  This Province must be brought to health.  We cannot postpone it to the next century.  We cannot.  That is why we support the Presidential Judicial Commission of Inquiry, that was supported by members of the IFP.  It was supported by the good Advocate Schutte and all the thinking people of this House.  We now want to actualise that commission.  That commission is going to investigate everything that has been mentioned in the TRC, that will have an impact on free and fair elections.  It is going to come, and as people ask for it, they came with a skewed one that eme ngomlenze owodwa namazipho, sizoletha eme ngezinyawo zonke thina ezogumbulula lezinto ebezifihliwe abanye bazozisola ukuthi konje sasiyifunelani ngoba iyezake manje.  [A skewed one that is weak.  We are going to bring a strong one that will dig up everything that is hidden.  Some people will regret that they ever called for it, because it is coming.  The Commission is really coming now, it is coming].  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Ikhomishani iza ngempela manje.  [The Commission is really coming].  It is coming, and that commission is going to investigate everything that is going to have an impact on free and fair elections.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order!  Order!

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  You are dealing with a Province which has got 50% of the violations of human rights, but only 5% of the truth.  Dealing with a Province where there has been no justice.  Dealing with a Province where there is no reconciliation.  We in the ANC say, we are not going to reconcile with the IFP of Mpumalanga Province or Western Province or Eastern Cape, we are going to reconcile with the IFP, whether you like it or not.  Whether you do not like somebody's cheeks or something, that is the person you are going to reconcile with.

UBaba uMfundisi wayethi indlela eya ezulwini idlula kwamakhelwane.  [The Reverend used to say the path to heaven goes via your neighbour].

Do not say you are going to go, no I like the ANC that is national, I do not like the one that is provincial.  No, no, no, that is the one you have got to deal with, and we are going to deal with the one, we are going to make peace with the one that is in the Province, once and for all.  It is going to be important for us to grab our future in our hands.

It is a Province that requires a rebirth.  It is a Province that requires a renewal.  We talked about people fleeing, capital fleeing.  They flee, because they say the violence in KwaZulu-Natal, political violence is a very primitive form of violence.  Even the church people no longer fight because one is Zion and one is Lutheran.  They no longer fight about that, but they must be led by this leadership family, and we must not retreat on those steps.  We must be firm on that.  I am happy that I am getting the signals that the Presidents are going to handle this issue firmly.  They are going to lead us and we will follow.

On the 27th of this month there is going to be a very big conference here in Durban.  It is called the African Renaissance Festival.  We feel it is this Province that needs this renewal, this rebirth and it is a Province that we cannot allow to retreat.  Many people have so many expectations as to what KwaZulu-Natal will come up with.  KwaZulu-Natal has already come up with many horrible things, even amakokoroshe akhona kuthiwa makhulu angaka.  [Even their cockroaches are very big].  It is now time that we actually come up with something that is going to heal this nation.  We have got the capacity, and we have got the experience to do it.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Yes.  We have demonstrated that we are going to do it.  As we now enter the last 76 days, it is good that everybody sees us in action here, and they see who it is that brings us back all the time, ground that we have covered that we have to start again.  They say: "No, no, no, we had already agreed on that in 1994.  Oh no, we agreed on that in 1996", and how we have to start again.  But that is temporary, there are only 76 days left.  After these 76 days the people of this Province are going to speak.  Those who want jobs can apply.  [LAUGHTER]

I was saying that this is all of our responsibility.  I do not want to leave the National Party behind.  The National Party will know, they denied the involvement of a third force.  When F W de Klerk admitted that in December 1992 he knew everything about it, but he was lying right up to the end.

So I want to say, Mr Speaker, there is a story of two men who were in love with the same young girl.  That girl unfortunately became pregnant, and because they were very civilised they then said: "Well, we are both going to take care of that baby.  It is going to be lighter".  Both went to the maternity ward to see her deliver.  One was very nervous, up and down being part of this deal and not ...

THE SPEAKER:  The hon Minister has got two minutes.

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  Okay, fine.  Being part of the deal and not part of the deal.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER

MR J S NDEBELE: (Minister of Transport):  The baby was then born while the other one had gone to buy cigarettes, and when he returned the other man said, "Well, it is twins".  The other chap then said: "That is easy.  You take yours, I will take mine".  The other one then replied:  "No, unfortunately mine died".  We are saying our twin, the comrades of the IFP are not dead, they are alive.  Let us be responsible and take charge of them and bring peace to this Province.  It is our responsibility.  We cannot shirk it by very narrow sectarian politicking.  Let us go forward and rid this Province of violence once and for all, and we dare not shirk that responsibility.  I thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Let us continue.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Aulsebrook.  You have 10 minutes to speak.  This has been agreed to by Whips, that you will speak for 10 minutes.  Thank you.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Having heard the Chairman of the Finance Portfolio Committee deliver his report, and then the first part of the hon Minister's speech, it is certainly heart warming to hear that there seems to be consensus that we have now started getting finances in this Province right.

But before I continue.  Just turning to the hon Minister's speech there, and I think he was a little off sides when he referred to the 27 years that the IFP were in government.  Yes, they were, but this has been a whole new ball game here.  We all came in here in 1994.  We were all relatively green to this new process.  You do not pick on the Natal Administration that was there, and a lot more sophisticated. 

THE SPEAKER:  Order, Mrs Blose.  Order please.  Please behave yourself.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  In fact the amalgamation process in itself created a lot of chaos, and certainly on the education side when we amalgamated five departments there was no easy way in which to arrive at the situation where we are now.  We have got here, and thank God we have got here in the fashion that we have.  It could have been a lot worse, but there was no easy road.  We had not just amalgamation, we had transformation as well, and that is well on its way.  So quite honestly, let us be grateful for where we are at.

Then turning to the hon Minister's understanding of reconciliation.  I just hope it is the same as our understanding of reconciliation.  Reconciliation can only take place once there is a victor and a vanquished, and let us hope we do not push ourselves to that.  The story of the twins may reflect a better understanding of your understanding of reconciliation.

In our Province, besides the problems of amalgamation, transformation, we had a major backlog situation.  This Province has for years and years, for decades been underfunded.  We had a chaotic situation as far as the under-funding goes, and to try and address those with our national allocation was certainly no easy task for any government, let alone a new government as we are here.

The fact that we then ended up in the section 100 situation is something that was almost inevitable in the process.  It was something that we might have avoided, but it was not the end of the world.  In fact it brought home some form of reality to us as to how we should resolve this matter.

Certainly, working with the Finance Committee this year, has been an absolute pleasure.  We have now all matured.  All the portfolio committees of this House came and presented their budgets together with the departments.  There is certainly now an understanding between Finance and the departments.  In the first few years it was fairly adversarial, but quite honestly we have a very positive engagement with departments, and that all bodes well for the future.

The process we have now introduced, first of all, was the Budget Council which became the Treasury Council, and these systems that we put in place have paved the way.  The introduction of budget reforms that brought along the NTEF, that also assists greatly with departments.  They know in the three outward years what direction they were going in.  They can start doing some long term planning.  These are the things that are helping us.

Yes, our finances are now on a stable footing, and credit must go to the Minister of Finance.  In saying that we have got to accept that being on a sound footing or rather I should say a stable footing, it does not mean to say that we are awash with money.  There are extremely limited resources in this Province, and we have not really got to grips with our backlogs.  In this sense, the FFC formula is also being modified year by year to try and address our equitable share, and it will take a full five years before this Province can say it is getting its equitable share.

Each and every department has to operate within financial constraints, and we can point fingers at them for not performing or delivering to a certain extent, but we should also rather try and assist them, be supportive of them in what they are trying to do on their limited resources.  No-one is proud to see the schools that are so grossly under-resourced, learners without books, things like that, none of us can be proud of that, but please we need to bear with it, and pull together to ensure that these are addressed.

Fraud and corruption.  Really we have no room for that in our administration.  In fact, as the Chairman of the Finance Committee mentioned, we need to dedicate a certain amount of resources to ensuring the eradication of fraud and corruption.  It will always surface from time to time, but we need to be on our guard to deal with it.

We are on the right route and we can be proud of what we have achieved in five years, and certainly the next five should look a lot, lot better.  There are still a couple of issues that we have not dealt with.  One is the assets register.  Our provincial assets are still not fully recorded, and this poses a problem, particularly in the area of revenue collection.  Until such time as we have a comprehensive assets register, both commercial properties and residential properties, we will never know whether we are collecting the revenues that are due to us as a Province.

Revenue collections for the 1994 to 1995 revenue year through to the 1997/1998 year there was a dramatic decrease in revenue collection.  Now this year for the first time we are actually starting to say we are turning that around.  We now look to increased revenue collection and every department has had pressure put on them to see where they can assist with revenue collection.  In fact the Finance Department has employed someone specifically to deal with revenue collection in their Department and to monitor all other departments.  That is a very positive step.

The other issue that is of concern to me is that in our whole financial and accounting system, expenditure is only recorded once an invoice is produced and put into the financial system.  I believe that we should try and look at a system that would record expenditure once we have committed ourselves to that liability.  Either when that order is signed or it is agreed that we will be spending that money, that that money should then be taken account of and regarded as a financial liability to the Province.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member has got one minute to go.

MR J F AULSEBROOK:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  The way forward from here, we might say we have got control of expenditure.  The next five years, let us focus on effective and efficient spending.  Let us see that we can just spend things and use monies more prudently.  In that way we will be able to deliver for the same amount of money a lot more to the people out there in our Province.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Haygarth.  You have 12 minutes to speak.

MR G HAYGARTH:  Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, I would like to start by congratulating the Minister on handling a very difficult budget constrained amount.  It is not easy in times such as this to allocate funds in the right area to get the right impact, and have the support of your Ministers with you and the heads of departments that have to actually run the business.  It is not easy to satisfy people.  You simply cannot do so.  Nobody is getting the amount of funds that he requires.  For the Minister to have led us through the last year with his achievements and bringing finances under control, and taking us into the new year with a fair and equitable allocation of his scarce resources to the best places and the best interests of the Province, and for that we thank you.

Mr Speaker, there are some issues that I would like to deal with.  The first one would be, the impact of budget constraints on maintenance.  The prioritisation of expenditure has inevitably resulted in substantial reduction of maintenance.  It is the easiest way to cut expenditure in a sense, but two things happen.  If you cut expenditure on maintenance you first of all have idle staff who you pay and get no return for, and secondly, you have a deterioration of your assets in this Province.  This is a very serious issue.  The Minister himself has said we should concentrate on maintaining our existing infrastructure rather than building new facilities, and with that there is a lot of common sense.  Your infrastructure today is worth billions of Rand, be they roads or schools or hospitals, they are worth billions of Rand, and to preclude adequate maintenance of them results in the ultimately complete deterioration and the requirement for their replacement.  You only have to look for the road we travel on near Eshowe to know what it is like when you get that dangerous condition of all those potholes on the road leading up to the entrance to Eshowe.

There are instances where it has become I think negligent, perhaps to say criminal, where some maintenance is not being carried out.  My colleague and I went to the local authorities recently and discussed the problem of water accounts in schools.  What was told to us was that there were schools which were visited by representatives of the local authority where the water pipes were fractured and water was pouring out of these pipes on the grounds that there was no money for maintenance.  The result of that was ridiculous water accounts which the schools refused to pay.  The local authority offered the Province the opportunity for the local authority to go in and stop the water being wasted, but their offer was refused.

That type of reaction is unfortunate when people say: "We have got no money for maintenance, so sorry, it does not matter what is happening, we let it carry on".  I want to say to departments that are involved, that they should be making sure that those urgent maintenance problems are attended to regardless.  Be they lifts where life is in danger, be they electricity where life is in danger, you simply cannot afford not to undertake certain maintenance work, and I want to stress that.

The second issue I would like to deal with, Mr Speaker, is that which has been dealt with by Minister Ndebele in regard to violence.  He, on the one hand, has said there is a need for peace and with that everybody agrees.  How many people there is to have a fight?  It certainly involves more than one side.  It takes two to tango, and it is important that we realise that for so long as that reaction takes place, our expenditure is going to be continually incurred in such a way that it is becoming effectively, I do not want to use the word "wasteful", but it is not achieving what this Province should be using the money for.

If you look, for example, at our hospitals, you find that the victims of violence are costing a tremendous amount in the trauma care units, the specialist professional people in order to stitch them together.  That may seem harsh, but that is what is happening.  Hundreds of thousands and millions of Rand are being dedicated to the victims of violence, and it is not only the victims of violence that are suffering, the homes are being torched, and they are being torched by both sides.  We have been to Izingolweni, we have been to other places, and it is quite clear that there is the reaction when one set of huts is torched, the other side arranges for a reciprocal arrangement, which is very sad.  This is all together costing the Province millions and millions of Rand which could be better utilised in the provision of schools and books and other things for the people of this Province.

So it is not just a question of getting peace, it is a question of saving millions of Rand of money which can be better prioritised in serving the community in another way.  This impact is also costing the Central Government millions and millions of Rand with the deployment of forces, and the cost of that deployment.  That is having as a consequence the limitation of funds that are available for the poor and the needy, and for those parts of the infrastructure that need maintenance.  We cannot therefore more than deplore the violence that exists in this Province, and which is costing so much, no matter who is responsible, it is costing us unnecessary funds which could be better employed elsewhere.

The next item I would like to deal with is the subject of internal audit.  The Minister has made it clear that he supports that proposition, not only in his own Department, but in the various departments where expenditure is involved.  An internal audit system is absolutely essential for the proper financial control of all our resources, for the control not only of expenditure, but also the receipt of income.  It becomes necessary to have trained and skilled people in that type of environment.  It takes time to build up a skilled workforce, but I believe that the Minister should take the opportunity, not only of developing the internal audit within his own Department, but he should be using that as a building block to create skilled people for deployment into the internal audit sections of all of the other departments.  An internal audit background is one of the best training grounds for future managers, and one of the various departments' problems has been the lack of adequate financial management.  They find difficulty in getting suitable people, the audit education that will be derived from what the Minister has in mind will go a long way towards developing future management personnel for the benefit of the Province.

The next item I would like to deal with is what I have termed the rape of local government.  The Minister knows that it is my favourite topic.  Unfortunately, in the five years in which I have been here, there has been a steady erosion of either the income which local government has derived over many years, or else there has been a transfer of responsibility without the necessary monetary attachment.

Unfortunately, I have to draw particular attention to the hon Minister of Transport, because he has been one of the leaders in this field, I regret to say.  He started off, I think it was in our first year, when road subsidies which had been a negotiated settlement between local government and the Province was removed.  I admit that the Minister had ideals of developing rural roads, and with that I do not have a problem, but unfortunately it took away some R20 million from local government.  It took away R20 million in cash from them.

I think that there were other things that followed.  The Minister has also been involved in the transfer or hopeful transfer of traffic fines in local authority areas which previously accrued to local government, allegedly being transferred to the State and to the Province.  So at all times he is looking towards his own problems, and saying where can he get the money, and I do not mind if he gets the money from motor licence fees ...

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member is left with one minute.

MR G HAYGARTH:  Thank you.  But unfortunately he raids the coffers of local government.  Then not only the traffic fines, but old provincial roads, now the Minister wants local government to take those over, and to be responsible for the maintenance thereof.  If you look at the Metropolitan Consultative Committee Report going back to about 1980, it warned against the Province handing over those roads to local government when it suited them, because it would put inevitable burdens on local government which should not be there.  So the Minister on one side says: "They are no longer my responsibility, they are in your area, take them over", but traffic fines which come from those areas on those roads he wants to take that revenue back.  I just think that is a sad indictment of the relationship between the Province on inter-governmental finances.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member's time is up.

MR G HAYGARTH:  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr I C Meer, who has eight minutes to speak.

MR I C MEER:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I want to join the last speaker in congratulating our Minister of Finance for his presentation of this budget.  In any Parliament he would have received, as he is doing here, praise for the way in which this matter has been handled.

We note that for the past two weeks, under Mr Dumisani Makhaye, the Finance Committee has dealt with 16 separate departments, and at the end of it we have come back to the Legislature with a measure of disappointment.  Disappointment in that in this transformation period we urgently require a much larger amount of money than we have been allocated.  But let us reiterate that the budget is the law, and once you have passed that law we must not allow that law to be broken.  We have got to see that we work within the constraints on those departments.

I want, particularly to refer to the manner in which the Finance Committee has worked in unison and in harmony.  This has happened for the past five years.  This year we were really sorry that Dr Mike Sutcliffe was not with us.  This is an appropriate occasion on which to pay tribute to Dr Mike Sutcliffe who is missed by everyone on that Committee for the great contribution he made to the Finance Committee for many years.

I want to also congratulate our new Minister of Education.  In the Portfolio Committee where we heard her for the first time, we expressed our appreciation for the energetic manner in which she is ready to deal with this problem.  But let me warn all human beings present here, that even angels will not be able to resolve some of the problems that we face.  Let us concede right at the outset that if 93% of the total education budget is going to go towards personnel, then we will not be able to meet some of the most urgent requirements in seeing that the schools which require maintenance are attended to or that our children get their textbooks on time.

The President had promised that our children would have textbooks when the year commenced.  They did not get them.  We also gave such promises, and yet the fact remains that we will have to find money from outside the budget to meet these requirements.  What should be the amount that should be allocated to personnel?  This is a matter which we must settle down on and discuss very sensibly.  If we could spend 70% and no more on personnel, and find the balance of the amount, the 20% to 30%, we will be able to meet all the requirements.  In other words, R8,2 billion on education is not sufficient, we require over R10 billion to meet some of the most urgent needs of the Education Department.

Where did we go wrong?  I remember, I was in, 1941, just out of high school when I became the secretary of the first teachers' trade union in this Province.  During that period Chief Luthuli was a teacher, and it was his first job - he was earning only three Pounds per month.  His Indian counterparts were earning five Pounds per month, and the white teacher began with 20 Pounds a month.  We met and discussed what we should be demanding.  I want to bring this before this hon House because we all are in a way guilty of drawing salaries which are first world salaries.  We did not say that we wanted parity or equality of all teachers at the salary that Luthuli was earning, that was three Pounds per month.  We did not say they should receive the same as the white teachers who were getting 20 Pounds per month.  We added the three and divided by three, and we said every teacher should start with 14 Pounds per month.  This is not what has happened.  We are now paying first world salaries to the entire civil service, to members of Parliament and to the teaching profession.  Therefore 93% of a substantial grant goes towards personnel.  This cannot be maintained if we are to meet our requirements.

Where are we going to get the balance if it is not going to come from the National Government?  We could continue to ask the National Government for more, but we cannot complain, as during the previous years we are being treated as a Cinderella Province.  What is required is what we did in the past.  I remember at one time there were 186 so-called aided schools of which I was the secretary, and we collected the money from the poorest of the poor and built those schools.  Our highest contribution went towards a school in Ottawa.  On Saturdays and Sundays lawyers, doctors, officials of the Education Department, shopkeepers all laid bricks under the guidance of qualified bricklayers.  That school was completed and had 16 classrooms.  It did not cost us a penny.  Even the bricks were donated by Corobrik, the cement was donated and the women in that area cooked meals on Saturdays and Sundays for all those who were involved.  That school was opened by a very humble man who had given the highest number of hours free of charge.  That is the history of our contribution towards education.

Take Ndwedwe, I have been going around in Verulam with many committees that come from there, the so-called Bantu Community School.  We went around and collected from every shopkeeper either 10 Pounds or 5 Pounds or 3 Pounds and with that amount, including the donations of building material, we were able to build schools in that area.  I want to appeal to our new Minister of Education, that there is a place called Thafamasi.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member is left with one minute.

MR I C MEER:  ... in the Ndwedwe area where we have to build a school.  The only thing we are waiting for is the Rand to Rand grant to complete that school.  Thank you very much indeed.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Mzobe, who has got 12 minutes to speak.

MR M R MZOBE:  Mr Speaker, hon members of the Legislature.  The democratic Republic of South Africa has been in power for the last four years now.  Its style of governance has been tried and tested by the social, economic and political events since the inception of the new dispensation.

Sir, we are gathered here today at our last parliamentary session.  We assemble here at the beginning of our second democratic election, which as far as I am concerned should be fought on policies.  It is supposed to be a free and fair election.  It is supposed to be democratic elections at which individuals and groups are afforded an opportunity to join political parties of their own choice.  It is common knowledge that the 1994 elections were based on personalities, and particular political leaders.  It must be an election at which advocates of violence and intimidation should be isolated.

The Government of National Unity has tried its utmost to put right that which was made wrong.  The Government of National Unity has held several meetings and summits to try and salvage the country from the calamity but it has all unfortunately been in vain.

Mr Speaker, it is not easy to teach old dogs new tricks.  The country was deliberately made ungovernable.  Hatred, insult, maim and even murder was inculcated in the minds and hearts of the old and young South Africans.

The politics of our country are now at a crossroad.  It is at a crossroad because the people of South Africa must not only take decisive decisions, but they must take painstaking decisions, because their future and the future of their children are at stake.

Our criminal justice system does not only favour criminals, but it is corrupt, to the extent that it has reached unprecedented and unacceptable proportions.  Children and babies of two years are constantly and mercilessly being raped.  Women, 95 years of age are raped and murdered by children of 15 years of age, only to find that the criminals escape.  That is in fact the culmination of the corruption of our justice system.

All countries in the world are almost entirely dependent on the farming industry for their economic growth and stability.  What do we see happening in South Africa, Mr Speaker?  Farmers and their families are slaughtered like beasts in an abattoir.

Mr Speaker, hon members of the Provincial Legislature, in terms of the Freedom Charter of 1955 it was unequivocally and unambiguously stated that the people shall govern which logically meant that the government should be brought to the people with the political and the administrative power to govern themselves.  But what do we see today?  The provinces are no less than castrated bulls.  They have no power to legislate.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M R MZOBE:  Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that we in the IFP shall not rest until our goal of a federal state is accomplished in order that the people of South Africa can have a taste of true and real democracy.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M R MZOBE:  It is common knowledge that throughout the world the governments are put into power by the electorate.  In the same vein it is the very same voters that take governments out of office.  It is therefore incumbent upon the people of South Africa to decide as to how best they can use their electoral right for their future and the future of their children through the ballot box.

Our country needs a strong and reliable government whose leadership has withstood the test of time.  As a federalist, Mr Speaker, it is my strongest contention that if provinces were given power, our economy would be stable.  It is also my strong belief that if trade unions acted responsibly, foreign investors would not have been scared away from investing in our beloved country.  Boycotts, picketing and stay-aways have grossly contributed to the skyrocketing unemployment that prevails in our country.

Mr Speaker, hon members, if power can be devolved from the Central Legislation to the provinces, South Africa could soon be one of the major industrial countries of the world, because they would work competitively.  For these reasons, sir, I appeal to the Central Government to bring power to the people.  I thank you, sir.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Burrows.  You have got eight minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MR R M BURROWS:  Thank you.  Mr Speaker, if I may just follow on the previous speaker.  It is of course power to the people, and I think we would all agree.  Unfortunately on this occasion on 2 June it is going to be power to the minority of the people, those who had bar-coded ID books.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR R M BURROWS:  The latest figures that I have from the IEC in this Province ...

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

THE SPEAKER:  Order, Mr Cele.

MR R M BURROWS:  The interesting figures to the man waving his finger at me like P W Botha over there, is that 3.3 million people are registered in this Province.  3.3 million are registered, out of an estimated census population of persons over the age of 18 years of about 5.3 million.  So there are about 2 million people in this Province who are over the age of 18 years who will not vote, who cannot vote.  I want to tell you, Mr Speaker, you know they can make whatever remarks they like.  It is not going to affect the DP terribly, because we have many of our members registered.

THE SPEAKER:  Order, Mr Makhaye.  Please behave yourself.  Thank you.

MR R M BURROWS:  The hon Mr Dumisani Makhaye has become the Jekyll and Hyde of the ANC.  It is a smiling face, it is sometimes not such a smiling face.  [LAUGHTER]  But the reality is two million people will not vote in this Province.  With respect, Mr Speaker, it is going to affect every party, some more than others.  I must tell you, I will predict that on 3 June when we have the result, the party that loses, between those two parties, will say it is because of the ID book business.  I will predict it right now that they will say it, and I will be right.

AN HON MEMBER:  And you will be right.

MR R M BURROWS:  Of course I will be right.

AN HON MEMBER:  What will you say it would be?

MR R M BURROWS:  I will say that we will get the figure that we are estimating to get, Mr Ainslie, which will be higher than the figure you think we are going to get.

But, Mr Speaker, at the end of the day the budget that we have before us, returning to the budget if I may for a moment, has been praised widely, and we would like to join in that.  We have been particularly critical of budgets in the past.  We voted against them, and ...

THE SPEAKER:  Order, hon member.  Hon member Dr Luthuli?

DR A N LUTHULI:  Can the hon member take a question?

MR R M BURROWS:  Yes.

DR A N LUTHULI:  I would like to know from the hon member how you know that the two million will not be voting?  Is it because of the bar-coded IDs, because there could be many reasons indeed.

MR R M BURROWS:  Perfectly correct.  Mr Speaker, the hon Doctor is perfectly correct.  There could be many reasons, they are apathetic, they do not want to walk to the station, they have got to go somewhere to register, but the interesting thing for me, is that the number of people that have registered now is almost exactly the same as the number of people that registered in 1996.  In 1996 we had a 50% poll, and at the end of the day if we have a 80% poll in this Province we are going to have the minority of the people of this Province electing a government.

I am simply saying it is wrong.  I do not want to go into attacking the bar-coding or anything like that.  That is an issue for the courts.  They are settling it today and tomorrow and next week.  I am simply saying, Mr Speaker, that if we wanted democracy, and the Constitution says that we have one person one vote, it means precisely that.  

Do you know there are many, many countries around this world that do not have ID books, that hate ID books, and do you know that the Department of Home Affairs is going to introduce an ID card next year, and you are going to throw away your ID book with the bar-code.  So what the hell is all this praise and hullabaloo about a bar-coded ID.  Why should I not just "sommer" go and vote?  Why not?  Anyway, I go back to the budget.

We want to praise the budget.  We think it is a tight budget.  We think it is an effective budget.  We think it does for the Province a very much better controlling function than in the first three years of this Legislature.  Mr Speaker, and I think it is a point that the hon the Minister of Finance needs to pick up.  He did make passing remarks, and I say no stronger than that, passing remarks at the time of his budget speech in Ulundi early in February, that the provincial allocation of funds, when you come to examine it is now very close to the formula.  Very close.  The problem is the formula.  Where you have provinces that have a very high proportion of young people and elderly people, which is not catered for sufficiently in the formula, you are going to get much lower social distribution finance than in other provinces.  So the Western Cape and Gauteng which have lower numbers of children, lower numbers of pensioners, have more money for schools.  They have more money for health and they have more money for welfare, and with respect, we have actually got to say that that formula of the FFC has to be re-examined.  It is simply depriving us in things like education of the money we need.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!.

MR R M BURROWS:  At the end of the day, Mr Speaker, what is going to occur in the, somebody said 76 days that are left between now and the election, is that a number of issues will be raised in this election.  I want to focus on some of them that particulary affect this Province.  I want to direct one at the hon the Premier immediately, and it is the question that now arises with very large question marks, the Tender Board, and Tender Board activities over school stationery and school textbooks.  These are issues that we need to bring into the open, that we need to talk about transparently, that we need to make quite sure that in fact whatever is being alleged, and it was alleged on television and the hon Premier knows, because I directed a copy of a letter to him in this connection, whatever is being alleged we must examine and we must cut it out.  We must talk, sir, about the transparency issue regarding the RDP.  We cannot have this Parliament end in two weeks time and not have solved the problem of the RDP, and the problems around it.

We need to address the issue of crime.  Here I am not talking about political violence, and I would go along with the remarks made by the hon Minister of Transport in this regard about political crime.  There needs to be a re-examination, a coming together.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member has got one minute to speak.

MR R M BURROWS:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I want to talk about ordinary criminal violence, because I do believe that there is a fundamental role that has to be played between local government, policing, the role of the Province where we have got a Minister of Safety and Security who is paid a Minister's salary to be a Minister of Safety and Security, and the national structures.  What is happening, with respect, is everybody is pointing fingers at everybody else, and we are getting people killed.  Mr Rajbansi has just come back from a funeral and I have got to go to a funeral tomorrow.  We had a person killed in Durban North and all these are criminal acts, sir, in which there should be an immediate concerted response from three levels of government, and it is not happening.  It is just not happening.  We must pay police more, we must have more police.  To do that, sir, we have got to take money away from something else, and we have got to take it away from jet planes and frigates. 

THE SPEAKER:  The member's time is up.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon member Mr A J Hamilton who has 17 minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Mr Speaker, before I start my address, I want with all my heart to praise Minister Miller, his remarkable Department, not only for the job that they have done in getting the finances in the Province back on the right foot, but for the ability that they have shown in getting other departments to be keen to co-operate with them in achieving this remarkable turnaround.  I also have great pleasure in supporting the Minister's budget.

Mr Speaker, I am going to be speaking today on something which is very close to my heart.  I am sure you do not need me to tell you what it is, and I pray that I am going to be equal to getting across to you all, just how vital and important what I am speaking for is to this Province.

I wonder how many of us in this chamber understand how the City of Durban came into existence.  Did we know that in 1826 a certain Mr Farewell landed at the Port of Natal with the intention ...

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR A J HAMILTON:  Sorry, Mr Cele, did you have something to say?

MR B H CELE:  INTERJECTION.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Thank you.  Mr Speaker, I would like some protection please.  [LAUGHTER]  Some people may treat this as a joke but it is deadly serious.  He came to establish a trading post looking for a suitable venue up the East Coast, and he landed in the Port of Natal.  What did he find?  A magnificent natural harbour, protected, landlocked with one small disadvantage, there was a sandbar across the entrance.  Mr Farewell did not see that as a disadvantage, because the vessels of the day were small enough at high tide to cross the bar, as it was known.  He established his settlement and trade prospered, and the town grew.

MR D H MAKHAYE:  INTERJECTION.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Thank you, hon Mr Makhaye.  I appreciate your interjection.  Your Jekyll and Hyde character is coming out.  What he did not recognise at the time was that the growth of Durban would be phenomenal, and by 1870 the sandbar that he had paid little attention to had become a very major impediment to the development of the Port of Durban.  Such an impediment, that alternative ports were being looked at.  Lorenzo Marques, Port Elizabeth.

Numerous people attempted to overcome this very serious defect in Durban.  In the 1890s a remarkable man called Cathcart Methven burst onto the scene, and I say burst onto the scene advisably, because Mr Methven was not only the town clerk, and the chief engineer, and the chief architect, and the chief town planner, and the guy that looked after the post, he was also the harbour master.  He believed in this City of Durban, and the Province, and he applied all his skills.  He was also an artist of remarkable ability, and an author.  He applied all his very considerable skills.  In today's world he would have probably been laughed out of court because he did not have a degree in this or a degree in that.  He came up with a remarkably simple solution to the problem that was causing the very quick demise of Durban as a major port.  That was the construction of the north and south pier at the entrance to Durban Harbour, which allowed the sandbank to once and for all be dredged away and open the future for Durban as the tenth busiest port in the world, and the busiest port in the Southern Hemisphere.

Mr Speaker, if any one of us stands on those north and south piers and you look at them, and you imagine that that engineering feat was done over 100 years ago, you will understand the difficulty he had in convincing the authorities and the good taxpaying burghers of Durban who did not want to part with their money, of the importance to convince them to take a leap of faith into the future.

He eventually convinced them and the north and south piers were built.  In 1910 the Port of Durban handled 100 000 tons of cargo worth 250 000 Pounds.  In 1993 we handled 50 million tons of cargo.  The Port of Durban also handles 68% of all the incoming and outgoing freight in this country.  It accounts for 70 000 jobs in the Durban functional region.  It puts R3,5 billion, in fact by now it is R4 billion because it is increasing at the rate of R400 million a year of disposable income into the economy of the Province.  360 enterprises are located here because we are the premier port in South Africa for general cargo.

We have another jewel in our crown, Mr Speaker, and that is the Port of Richards Bay, which not only is the largest bulk port in the world but it is the busiest bulk port in the world.  I wonder how many of us know that the site for Richards Bay was chosen by another very remarkable man, an engine driver, Mr Ben Schoeman.  Not known for his terribly strong democratic principles, but a man known for his ability to do what had to be done.  To my knowledge, he was the first man that gave the previous government the finger about job reservation.  He employed all colours to be lorry drivers, forklift truck drivers, tappers and port wharf side supervisors.  He did not care, he did what had to be done.  He took a helicopter in 1958 or 1959 and he flew up the North Coast and decided that that was where the Port of Richards Bay would be built and so it was.

He made a mistake, Mr Speaker.  If he had located that port one and a half kilometres south, he would have avoided ...

MR M F REHMAN:  INTERJECTION.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Thank you, Mr Rehman, I really appreciate that serious interjection.  He would have avoided the rock that bedeviled the construction of Richards Bay.  The point I am making, we have got Richards Bay, okay.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR A J HAMILTON:  And unfortunately, Mr Speaker, we suffer from an excess of consultation in the new South Africa.  We suffer from what I call paralysis through analysis, or what I used to call the Natal syndrome, and is more correctly known as the KwaZulu-Natal syndrome.  We take the smallest object and examine it top, bottom, inside, outside, backside and front side before we make a decision.

The same Mr Schoeman came to this Province in 1967 and said, "I have got a problem".  Johannesburg International Airport or Jan Smuts as it was then known, had a serious problem with the 707 aircraft that were then the only real aircraft for international flights.  They were losing some 20% of their capacity because Johannesburg was located 6 000 feet above sea level, and to this day the reason you have early morning departures and late evening departures in Johannesburg is because of the density of the air.  He came to this Province and he said, "I want to build an international airport in this Province".  We designed the airport.  We priced it and I am afraid to tell you or sad to tell you that some of the very good burghers on the North Coast wrung their hands and wept crocodile tears and moaned about being driven off their ancestral lands, and managed to delay Mr Schoeman's scheme for the La Mercy Airport by four years.  The Provincial Government of the day, I may tell you, in my book anyway did not cover itself with glory.  It probably was afraid to antagonise the North Coast residents.

As a result of that, Mr Speaker, the advent of the 747s came along, and the penalty for high altitude take-offs was only 8%.  What the good burghers of KwaZulu-Natal missed was that Durban would have become the gateway airport to South Africa.  We did not want it.  It was 75 million Pounds in those days.  That was the cost.  No, sorry, I beg your pardon, Rand.  R75 million was the cost.

I have taken this long way round to come to what I am saying, Mr Speaker, because we have a situation right now in this Province, where we have more to sell for tourism than any other province in the country.  I guarantee you, you ask the average Natal citizen or KwaZulu-Natal citizen where the best place in South Africa is to go, probably 90% of them will say Cape Town.  We have got it all here.  The trouble is we just do not know how to market it.  The trouble is we do not believe in ourselves, and we now have an opportunity to have the airport at La Mercy built nearly 30 years after it was started.  R200 million is in the ground there.

This very Parliament in 1994 passed a unanimous resolution to get the new King Shaka Airport built, and to that end a task team was appointed representing the province, and the private sector, and we were funded by this Government.  We retained some of the best professional services in the Province in order to come up with a pre-feasibility study.  It lasted for nearly two years.  During this time we had ongoing meetings with the Airports Company of South Africa that asked us what the hell we were doing sticking our nose into their affairs that we had no business doing, and eventually we got them to accede that if the pre-feasibility study said it was a good idea in principle, we would then take it the next step further to a feasibility study.

To that end, on 15 April 1997 the then Premier of this Province, Dr Mdlalose, the National Minister of Transport, the hon Mr Mac Maharaj, signed a protocol in the existing Durban International Airport.  That protocol said they accepted the need for a new airport by not later than 2010, but that if we in this Province wanted it sooner than that, they would co-operate with us as long as we did not affect their bottom line, because as you will all know, the Airports Company has been partially privatised.  This is the result of that study.  R4 million's worth.

We advertised internationally for the very best consultants, and we got the very best consultants.  We formed a steering committee representing the Minister of Transport, Minister Zuma of Economic Affairs and the Premier of this Province.  I sat on that steering committee.  We have total agreement between the Airports Company and ourselves on the irrefutable need for a new airport by 2010.  We also had the opportunity of building it much earlier, and to show you the importance of that, Mr Speaker, I want to reiterate that in 1991 this Province had more tourists and more scheduled carriers coming into Durban International than Cape Town.  Cape Town today, or in fact in 1997, Cape Town has 4,4 million passengers to our 2,2 million passengers and has 23 scheduled carriers to our nine.  That can lead to one result, and that is the diminution of the importance of our airport, and ourselves as a gateway destination, relegating ourselves to the status of a regional airport, whilst Cape Town carry on as a semi-hub and Johannesburg as a hub.

The timing, Mr Speaker, will never be better than now, because the midfield expansion of Johannesburg International Airport has been delayed until 2010.  That means they are under pressure, and they will be under increasing pressure.  We have an undertaking from the Airports Company, if we go ahead in this Province and build that airport they will coerce international carriers to land here in Durban.

Mr Speaker, we are not the only ones who see that as an opportunity.  Mr Loots, the former Chairman of the Airports Company, has a provisional international licence to operate a new international airport in Springs.  Whether he gets it or not will depend on whether we are able to move forward and get our airport, or whether we are going to sit back.  I know we have got budget constraints, but what I am pleading for is that we look with real fire in our bellies to find alternative ways to finance this airport, and get it off the ground.  The Premier has to my great delight twice now referred to the importance of the airport.

The airport unlocks another thing.  It unlocks an opportunity of amazing potential for us, and that is the opportunity of using the old airport in Durban for a harbour/petro-chemical hub.  Shipping is changing so quickly that we cannot keep track of it.  The biggest container ships in the world are now 8 000 containers.  In another 9 or 10 years they will be between 10 000 and 15 000 containers, and bigger ships mean fewer ports, it means a bullet service in the international trade, from one international hub and transhipment port to another.  We are uniquely placed to be the hub port between the East and the Eastern Free Board of the American Continent.  If we lose that opportunity it will never come again.  There is Dubai, it used to be the former Middle East hub port.  It is no longer the Middle East hub port, because it did not keep pace and keep up.  It is looking for a new job.  It would love to take over as the hub port between east and west.  We need a 40 year outlook.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  One more minute.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Mr Speaker, let me tell you, sir, the airport for the growth of the tourist industry in this Province is the most important thing we can have, and tourism is the quickest way to create jobs.  We are all concerned about jobs, and until we have a competitive international airport, we will not be competitive in the international tourism route.  I will tell you something, the advantages of the airport compared with the port which is freed up with the relocation of the new airport to La Mercy, pales into insignificance when compared with the incredible generation of industry and jobs that would come from the future 40 year extension of the future of the Port of Durban as a container terminal, with the dilapidated industrial areas of Jacobs and Mobeni waiting to be export processing zones, all with rail sidings.

Mr Speaker, I speak with all my heart.  This Government has got to find a way to achieve those objectives for the long term future, including the full development of Richards Bay, for the long term development and future of this Province and the creation of jobs for our people.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Time is up.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Let us have the vision and the power and the courage to take a leap of faith into the future like they did in the Durban Corporation with the ICC.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Time is up, hon member.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Thank you, sir.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I call upon the hon Mr Rajbansi.

MR A RAJBANSI:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I want to praise our finance family.  That is the hon Minister of Finance, and the very hard working Portfolio Committee led by the youthful Mr Dumisani Makhaye.  [LAUGHTER]  They have done this Province proud.  Sometimes I do not like Minister Miller's tactics, but you cannot deny the fact that his Ministry is one of the most efficient machineries in our Provincial Government.  You cannot deny that.  I know one time we complained about acknowledgement, that I get an acknowledgement of a fax within three minutes after sending it.  That is a world record.

I was very, very impressed with one statement the hon Premier made in his reply.  That is in response to a concern which we expressed about highly qualified, capable and able members of the civil service of the minority Indian community who could have played a role in this Province.  I know the hon Premier was not here when this was done, and I want to repeat the case of General Sharma Maharaj.  If the National Minister and the National Commissioner could take a high ranking police officer from Durban, and appoint him the Commissioner for Gauteng Province, which is more problematic than KwaZulu-Natal, then why was he not appointed the Provincial Commissioner here?

It is common knowledge, and the hon Mr I C Meer will confirm it, that amongst many other communities educationists from the Indian community played a very big role in the upliftment of education.  But when it came to the restructuring of education in our Province, I can stand up here with justifiable concerns that the brain drain is still taking place in two other provinces.  I express the hope that these concerns of the minority Indian community will be taken very seriously.  Over the weekend many political parties came to Durban for the Indian vote and to hear the concerns of the Indian minority.

I want to make one appeal today, after hearing the hon Minister of Transport and the hon the Premier, remember that before foreigners came to this Province you had structures, you had tremendous values and tremendous principles.  One of the greatest Kings in the world who was even rated better than Churchill was our King Shaka.  What did King Shaka stand for?  He stood for unity.  At that time there were no non-blacks.  He stood for unity.  Therefore it pains us, and we are reminded of Allan Paton's book, Cry the Beloved Country when chiasm appeared in the relationship between the IFP and the ANC.  Therefore I want to make an appeal, and I want to express the hope that this will be temporary.

To the hon Premier I want to say that the prophets of doom, as it has been expressed this morning, are people in this country who want to present a picture by using the print and the electronic media every day, nothing but criticism, that the black man is not capable of handling the affairs of this country.  You see it today.  Across here we have many capable and able black people who can hold their own even in the international political arena.  But by the ANC and the IFP starting this cold war, you are going to give enough ammunition for each of them. I want to make an appeal, take a picture of King Shaka, and the wonderful embrace President Mandela had with Dr Buthelezi when a road was opened on the North Coast, what a brotherly embrace, and translate that embrace into real practical reality.

I want to appeal for harmony, peace and good relationships between the ANC and IFP.  For progress to take place in this country it is imperative that there is black harmony and black unity first.  We are living in a very great country.  We have mineral resources in this country.  When all the strategic minerals of the world have been wiped out, we will have resources in this country which will be the envy of the world for 300 years.  Everybody is kind to us.  Nature is kind to us, and all we have to convert, Mr Premier, as you have stated, is to make this Province and this country a country and a Province of hard working disciplined people.

Mr Speaker, a survey was done amongst people living in informal settlements, and everybody thought that the result of the survey, because they had been asked, "What is your greatest need", the answer would be housing, and everybody more or less unanimously said, "Our number one priority is jobs".  We must create jobs.  When the President of the richest German state visited this country, I asked him over the dinner table, "Give us your magic".  He said, "There is only one thing we have done, we are the only state in Germany where we have promoted the SMME".

The hon member Mr Rehman and I had the good fortune of going to Dubai, and everybody knows that Dubai is the shopping mecca of the world, but if you study Dubai, you will say Durban is a shopping mecca of the world.  You go to the shops in Durban, you have got electronic equipment that is cheaper than Dubai.  Have we really promoted SMMEs?  Have we really promoted the informal sector?  If you go to Dubai you can go to Bali, you can go to New Delhi, your shopping paradises are your bazaars, are your markets.  We have not done so.

The hon member Mr Hamilton is quite correct.  Why do we not have a duty-free port in Durban?  Why do we not make Richards Bay a duty-free port.  He is correct about his plea for the King Shaka Airport, but at the same time we must understand, Mr Speaker, that there are certain people involved in pushing the airport for selfish reasons, and there are certain people who are pushing the airport for the benefit of the community.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Two minutes more.

MR A RAJBANSI:  I want to also say in respect of violence.  Four or five years ago, every day on the TV screens, we saw Punjab.  KwaZulu-Natal at that time was like childs play compared to the violence in Punjab.  There is no violence in Punjab today.  It is one of the most peaceful states in India.  It is because the security establishment was given the legitimacy, and the security establishment was given the necessary support by the community and the politicians to totally eliminate violence.

The creation of jobs, the improvement of the economy, the education of the people, all actions on the social front is going to play a vital role in decreasing the violence caused by social factors in our country.  I want to say this, you tell a black African person, "You have now got freedom".  He can now live in the towns.  When he sees a vacant land he has to pay R40 000,00.  When there is a type of job available you find that he is not trained, and therefore we must understand this problem, and I said earlier on, we must look at the phrase rerum cognosce causan.  Learn to understand the cause of all problems.

I want to say finally, this is a great Province, this is a great country.  There are certain people who are disloyal to this country.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Time is up.

MR A RAJBANSI:  They will attack, attack and attack, but we have made progress.  My appeal to the hon Premier and to the hon Minister of Transport is let us rise in this moment of temporary separation between the IFP, let us sit in the shade of a tree where King Shaka used to have his great meetings.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Time is up.

MR A RAJBANSI:  So that we can have real unity, and if we can facilitate it, we will have it.  Thank you.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I now call upon Miss Nahara.  You have 10 minutes.

MISS F M NAHARA: (Whip):  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, one is happy to hear how everybody praises our Minister of Finance for doing so well.  I do not think I can ever differ from my other colleagues.  I will say the same too.  This sets a base for what we all should be doing to improve on the work that we have been given to do in this Province.

It is also time, during this budget, to reflect on what have we done in this Province for the people of KwaZulu-Natal.  Looking at what we have done in this Province, I picked up one point that with all the good we will be debating this year, and the allocations that will be debated here for the different departments, there is still one area that needs to be addressed, it still lacks quite a number of things.

In 1995, after the Beijing Platform of Action, the South African Government made a commitment that it would ensure and establish machinery that would take care of the problems of women in this country, and that machinery was actually established.  Amongst them was the Gender Commission, the office of the status of women which was placed in the Deputy President's office, departmental gender desks, and this commitment was also taken by the provinces, all provinces in this country.

One of the first provinces that established this machinery, and some resources was KwaZulu-Natal.  Multi-party women's caucuses were established, though we did not establish the office of the status of women.  But some machinery was put in place.  Good initiatives were taken in order for women to participate and to  actually be empowered.  Two trips were made, namely to Uganda and Norway.  This was an attempt to empower the women.

But what is even more disappointing about these efforts, and all these establishments and commitments that were taken, is you ask today what has happened to all that machinery, what happened to the women's caucus, what happened to the Gender Sub-committee.  You will not get an answer, Mr Speaker.  The answer will be, "I do not know".  One other initiative that was established was a sub-committee on violence against women which also, if you ask when it ended, you will not know exactly when it ended.  

If you reflect on the reasons why this machinery did not function, is it purely due just to a lack of funds or what?  Another weakness is the allocation of funds.  There were no funds allocated to empower women in this Legislature, particularly.  There are other matters that created such weaknesses.  Lack of a mechanism for monitoring, lack of good leadership in the women's caucus and the Gender Sub-committee itself, lack of interest and the commitment that one would have thought this Government would have taken seriously.  It did not really give the seriousness that one thought it would have.

As we sit here today, funds will be allocated to different departments.  What is there in place for the women of this Province?  The answer is nothing.  How are we going to explain to the women out there that this Government cares about them when there is absolutely no allocation so far that shows that there is seriousness in women's empowerment.  One of the objectives of having the women's caucus was actually the machinery that was going to look into mechanisms of lobbying, monitoring the budgets and whether these budgets contain anything that will help women.  You have an example.  You have the Agriculture Xoshindlala Project.  No one monitors this project, whether it does reach out to the rural women as it is stated.  Flagship projects, no one monitors these flagship projects, whether they really reach out to the women at the grass-root level.  Housing projects, no one monitors these projects, whether these houses do benefit the women on the ground.  These are the serious weaknesses and the downfall of the women's caucus.

One other thing that one would have expected to see when you talk about the leadership of the women's caucus, is that all political parties have one thing in common, that if you place somebody or you give a particular member a task that party will actually monitor whether this member is doing justice to the given task. But here one can really say despite that the majority party or the governing party in this Province have the majority of women in its ranks, but you will regard that at the end of the day when you look at all these failures of the women's caucus, and say then the majority of women it means was just purely window dressing.  There is no seriousness in ensuring that these women are doing their functions properly, or is there anything that empowers these women to actually work like all other Legislatures or other women parliamentarians in other provinces around the country.

With this, Mr Speaker, looking at the time, it is two months before the election and we are at the doorstep of leaving this Legislature, one wonders what will happen to the people who are likely to come back and be members of Parliament where they will be starting afresh, there are no foundations that we have laid in this Legislature for the empowerment of women, despite all the available resources that were there before for this committee to function.

I would not like to talk much about the Gender Sub-committee because I will discuss this during the appropriate vote.  But I must say that it is a serious disappointment that this Legislature during the past four years has failed to set up a foundation for women's empowerment.  What are we are going to tell the women out there what this Legislature stood for?  How can we assure the people that they are secure under this Government in KwaZulu-Natal when this Government does not really care about the women in this country?  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr V A Volker, who has got 10 minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MR V A VOLKER:  Mr Speaker, the hon member Miss Nahara referred to the election in two months time.  Basically tomorrow within 11 weeks we are going to the polls.  Then we shall have a democratic snapshot determination of the political representation in the Legislature of this Province.  But the Programme of Good Governance will not entirely be determined by the Legislature, it will be determined by the composition of the government, by the composition of the Cabinet, because that is where the initiative lies in how matters are addressed, matters that can lead to either the stagnation or the development of this Province.  What we need is development.  What we need is to project a picture of tolerance, basically of political peace and not of political warfare, and that will be determined to a large extent by the composition of the government.

If it were to be composed purely on political lines, we can have a continuation of five years as we have had in the past five years.  Mr Speaker, we of the National Party, as many other parties, are committed to the new South Africa.  We are committed to the transformation that has to be brought about in a positive way.  The initiative of this transformation was announced on 2 February 1990 by the then State President F W de Klerk.  The initiative was taken by him, and it was driven to a large extent by the National Party.  We played a major part in the process of negotiation.  All of us who were in that process of negotiation were committed to transform South Africa so as to bring about a peaceful future, and a peaceful non-racial development in this country.

We continue to have that commitment to transformation as a basis for the non-racial development of this Province, but if that transformation is to be shackled constantly to the negative accusations of past inequities, and frequently to racial anti-white finger pointing, and marginalisation of white communities in this country, then that transformation will be less positive than what it can be if we all have a genuine commitment to positive transformation.  In fact, if we continue on the basis of constant finger pointing and accusations of the past inequities, we shall collectively hamper the positive development of this Province and of South Africa.

We in this Province are blessed with a population that more than any other province represents a mosaic of diversity of Zulus and Indians in their diversity of Muslims and Hindus and other smaller groupings, and of whites, English and Afrikaans and other immigrant communities, and of the coloured community.  We are blessed with this diversity, and if we genuinely want to bring about a positive transformation and development, then we must demonstrate the unity that is absolutely necessary to bring about a future peaceful development in this Province.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHER

MR V A VOLKER:  Cheers to those that asked to let me have a drink of water.  Mr Speaker, to have greater effectiveness, I believe that in this Province if we recognise genuinely in every sphere, of government, as in industry and in administration, the need to have effective administration, to have effective governance, to have good governance and that we are prepared to overlook the need to have constant accusations of past inequities, then we can move towards a better future.

Listening to various speeches here today, I came to the conclusion that in many aspects we can have a positive co-operation.  When it comes to the policies of the ANC, I must say that we are opposed to the policy of collective centralisation.  We are opposed to the policy of single city mega cities.  But when it comes to administration, I must acknowledge that the hon Minister S'bu Ndebele is doing a good job in promoting road safety, and we recognise that.  When it comes to aspects of education, I must say that I would see no problem in co-operating with the hon Mr Roger Burrows.  But in other aspects we have difficulty with the attitude of the prima-donna grandstanding of Mr Tony Leon.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR V A VOLKER:  And therefore I believe that if we accept the need to promote effectiveness and good governance in this Province, then this Province can be a leading Province in a South Africa of the future that should be seen internationally by industrialised countries as the gateway to development in Africa.  This country, this South Africa, and this Province KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa can be a gateway to a recognition of progress in Africa, because at the moment there is a tremendous amount of unhappiness with the trend of Africa generally, and we in this Province and we in South Africa must not allow this image of a negative development in Africa to become perpetualised internationally.  We must make every effort within this mosaic that presents a picture where we can have co-operation within the diversity.  We must make every effort to bring that about.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member is left with two minutes to wind up.

MR V A VOLKER:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  But then we must stop the stories of gunrunning, be it by Ministers of this Cabinet, or by members of the Legislature, not by hiding the truth, but by leaders of the respective parties making a sincere effort to control their grass-roots communities to stop these political murders in this country.  I believe we have a positive future if we commit ourselves to bring that better future about.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Mthiyane.  You have got 12 minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to address this House, but before I do that, I would like to compliment the Minister for the good job he has done.  Well done, Mr Minister, do it again.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M J MTHIYANE:  When we come back after the next election where the IFP will come with big numbers.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M J MTHIYANE:  You must do it again, Mr Minister.  But before I address the registration process which I want to focus on, Mr Speaker, I am concerned about the words "peace and reconciliation".  I have been listening to this peace and reconciliation, but I am worried because outside the people are dying like flies.

A few minutes ago I was told that a member of the IFP, the day before yesterday, was shot to pieces, because he resigned from the ANC and joined the IFP at KwaMashu M-Section, but people are talking about peace and reconciliation.  I am worried, Mr Minister.  Before I continue, is the Minister of Transport back again?

AN HON MEMBER:  Yes, he is back.

MR M J MTHIYANE:  He said the water that I drink at Umlazi comes from the Mayor of Durban.  It is not true.  The house I am living in was built by the KwaZulu Government.  The water I drink was brought by the KwaZulu Government, and I only paid R21 per month for water, but now we are paying R150 to R160.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M J MTHIYANE:  By the Mayor and the councillors who were praised by the Minister of Transport.  The people are crying about these payments.  I do not think it is proper for the Minister to praise something that is killing our people.

Yes, we will be back in numbers.  I am sure of that, because not of the promises we made but because we are doing things.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Order please!

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Yet I want to compliment the Minister of Transport, because what he has done from 1994 up to now, is he has established a big number of toll roads, where we pay some money.  [LAUGHTER]  Compliments, Mr Minister.  We are paying.  We are paying.  Even the poor people are paying when they pass there.  That you established, Mr Minister.  The toll road, and it is cheaper to come to Maritzburg than to go to Zululand, Ulundi.  I think there is something fishy about that.  [LAUGHTER]

Mr Speaker, I want to go back to registration.  The whole process of the voter registration was utterly unfair, particularly in my area at Umlazi where I can mention a number of incidents that occurred, e.g. the ANC office at Umlazi are issuing the TRC documents to such an extent that they are even utilising the entities of offices to further their own corrupted political campaign.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order! Point of order.  Hon member Mr Gcabashe.

MR S J GCABASHE:  Yes, Mr Speaker, I want to raise a point of order here.  The hon member Mr Mthiyane, I do not know whether he is not aware that the elected representatives were instructed by the Minister of Home Affairs to assist people in acquiring IDs and the TRCs.  So if he is saying now that the ANC is corrupt, I would like him to withdraw that with immediate effect.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Mr Speaker, I have been told the number of offices where you can register and obtain other documents for registration.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Point of order, Mr Speaker.  

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Hon member Mrs Cronje.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  There is a request that the hon member withdraws the statement that the ANC is corrupt.  We demand that he does so.

AN HON MEMBER:  Why?

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Mr Speaker, I do not think I will withdraw that, because if you go there to Umlazi now ...

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, point of order.

THE SPEAKER:  Yes.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, we are appealing to you as the Speaker of this House to order the hon member to withdraw an unparliamentary statement.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  We are in your hands.

THE SPEAKER:  In fact what I was trying to do was to find out whether the statement that is being raised by the ANC is as such or there is some modifications from the hon member.  If it is not the case, then the member will be asked to withdraw the statement.

MR M J MTHIYANE:  With respect, Mr Speaker, I withdraw the corruption.

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, I would wish to raise a point of order.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

MR R M BURROWS:  The point of order I wish to raise is I would like you, sir, to consider duly and maybe at another time would be appropriate, as to whether an unparliamentary expression can be used about a political party.  It certainly cannot be used about an hon member, but to call the National Party racist, or the ANC corrupt, or the IFP stupid cannot be unparliamentary.  It simply cannot be.

AN HON MEMBER:  Exactly.  Where is the freedom of speech around here.

THE SPEAKER:  I will ask the hon member, since he has withdrawn the utterance, to continue with his speech.  Thank you.

AN HON MEMBER:  Say it again.

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Mr Speaker, I further noted with concern that the presiding officers are being intimidated and compelled to accept duplications for registration by the ANC.  These irregularities cause me to question the neutrality of the IEC.  Furthermore, the pending issue of the training which was offered by the IEC to all political parties to embark on an exercise of a door to door campaign was incomplete due to the fact that the material or equipment which was supposed to be handed to all political parties to conduct this exercise was only handed to the ANC.

AN HON MEMBER:  Corruption.

MR M J MTHIYANE:  Corruption.  Mr Speaker, having said that, it causes me to question the neutrality of the IEC.  The abovementioned facts demonstrate clearly that the forthcoming election will not be free and fair.

I conclude, Mr Speaker.  I would like to extend a challenge to the hon members of this House at large to dedicate their efforts to addressing the mentioned irregularities.  Bearing in mind that the issue of no-go areas, and illegal registration of immigrants will distort our democracy.  I do have a fear, Mr Speaker, that if people are talking about fair and free elections, I am really doubtful of that.  No-go areas, people are dying, even in the Cape.  I heard this morning only KwaZulu-Natal talking about the violence, but people are dying in the Cape.  UDM people are dying there.  We heard in the news, and it is said people are saying only KwaZulu-Natal, because they do not count the souls of the UDM members.  I thank you, sir.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call on the hon member Mr Mkhwanazi, with 10 minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Ngiyabonga, Baba Somlomo.  First of all, I want to express my very happy feeling after hearing both sides of the House, the Premier's speech which was a straightforward speech, and I was lucky to be the only one who does not belong to the IFP to listen to it.  [LAUGHTER]  The remarks made by Dr Mkhize, although they were strong remarks, but he made them in a very good speech which is what we should do.  Finally, what the Minister of Transport, hon Mr Ndebele said and that is that the ANC is committed to reconciliation with the IFP.  He even boasted that both the leaders of the IFP and of the ANC are meeting and getting together.

This pleases the PAC because in 1993 that is what the PAC said should happen.  We went to Ulundi, we wrote letters to the ANC and the IFP.  The IFP responded positively.  The ANC said "no the PAC wants to get votes", and we said there is no problem.  If we stop the killing of our people that gives us votes, hallelujah, but that was not our aim.  I believe at least it has dawned on everybody that if the leaders at the top, and we agree in toto with Minister Ndebele, that if hon uMntwana of kwaPhindangene and His Excellency uBaba Mandela honestly sit down and talk among themselves it must not end there, they must lecture to their children, because that is exactly where the problem lies.  That is why there are still these killings.

The killings are now worse than they were because bayantshontshana manje abantu, nakoke okubi kakhulu.  [Because people are now attacking and killing each other secretly, that is what is extremely awful].

We are very happy and we applaud, and encourage the IFP and the ANC to make peace in the Province.  It is their responsibility, and of course they should also allow the other parties to exist.  That is why I am not happy about the merger, because it will cause a hegumenos situation.  But let them live peacefully and be different.  That is what we want.  I want to thank you Ministers and the Premier.

Looking at the budget, Mr Speaker.  Since April 27, 1994, we are supposed to be a single equal nation in this Province and in the country, but this is not so, we have yet to achieve that.  We are still, however, a too highly unequal society.  The social services available are still skewed.  I am talking about the supply of electricity, sanitation, telecommunication, health and education.  We will discuss these problems when we discuss the different votes.

Ngamanye amazwi ngithi ayikho into yokuthi siyalingana ma-Afrika, asikalingani, siyafisa ukulingana kusenjengomuntu esuka... [In other words I am saying that we are not equal.  It is not a reality, Africans, we are not yet equal.  We wish for equality.  It is like a person starting ...] and we cannot be equal when the winning post is Pietermaritzburg, and the other people are starting from the beach front in Durban, and the others are starting at the toll Mr Mthiyane mentioned at Mariannhill, and we expect them to reach Maritzburg at the same time.  The PAC says we will not take those who are at that toll back to Durban, but we say they must mark time and wait for those who come from Durban.  What we mean by saying until they get there, we say the resources of the Province and of the country must be given bias towards those who have been disadvantaged.  This is not talking about racism, it is a fact.  Sidlule lapho.  [Let us proceed].

Mr Speaker, the victims of political violence badly need assistance as individuals, as communities and so on.  They are stopping us in the streets and they want to know when their houses are going to be rebuilt.  They want to know when their schools are going to be rebuilt.  I hope this budget will attend to that, because the people are hoping, and it is not their fault.  Business people were very happy when we passed that Act here, but they are still waiting.  They even made me speak to the Minister of Economic Affairs one day.  He did explain to me, but when I explained to the people that well, we are still doing this and that, they said awu! sebeyidlile imali, awu ngeke sisayithola leyomali bayidlile.  [They say "Oh, they have used the money, we will not get that money, they have used it"].  When the Minister drives a new Mercedes-Benz they say awu! nayi imali yethu.  [They say, "Oh, there is our money"].

So I wish and I appeal that whatever mechanism is being worked on, Mr Minister, it must be worked on speedily.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Well, ja as part of it.  Also uMkhwanazi uhamba ngemali yethu.  [Mkhwanazi is travelling using our money].  On crime, Mr Speaker.  This budget is giving, and I appreciate the budget from my friend there.  He knows the Minister of Finance, he knows he is my friend but there is one point where we do not agree.  We quarrel on that but we quarrel as gentlemen.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Now we are living in prisons.  The law-abiding citizens of this Province and of this country are prisoners.

THE SPEAKER:  Ilunga elihloniphekileyo selisalelwe imizuzu emibili kuphela.  [The hon member is left with only two minutes].

MR J D MKHWANAZI:  Awu ngiyabonga sengizoqeda.  [Oh, thank you, I am almost finished].  They are living in prisons.  Our houses are burgled, wired and so on and so on.  When Bishop Mogoba, the leader of the PAC mentioned some of the things that should be done to the criminals, some apologists for the criminals jumped up and said that he has got a butchery shop, I do not know if it is a butchery shop, but these are the people who have a group of fully armed bodyguards, and their houses are guarded.  Why do they not dismiss those people if they are free, and they talk about the human rights of prisoners, of criminals.  What about the human rights of our women and children, even a 94 year old women being raped and killed?  Therefore we appeal to the Minister of Police, both in the Province and nationally, the Government must stiffen its hand.

Finally, on the question of land.  Angiyikhulume ngesiZulu lena ngithi qaphu qaphu.  Umhlaba thina bakwa-PAC sithi awabiwe ngokwendlela.  Sithi umhlaba awungenziwa ikhomodithi. Kakhulukazi umhlaba oseMakhosini, ngoba umhlaba oseMakhosini owabantu iyo lendaba abantu uma uthatha umhlaba eMakhosini sewuthengiswa sewusetshenziswa njengekhomodithi ukhomishelayizwa.

Iyo lendaba ebanga ukuthi abantu bazogcwala lapha emjondolo babaleke ezindaweni njengoba kwenza abelungu uma befika bathi uma abantu bengayi emgodini babulala izinkomo emakhaya, babaphuca nomhlaba.  Ngiyabonga Somlomo.

TRANSLATION:  Let me express this briefly in Zulu.  We, the PAC, say land should be allocated accordingly.  We are saying land should not be made a commodity, particularly land that is under the jurisdiction of Amakhosi, because that land under Amakhosi belongs to the people.  

Making that land a commodity and commercialising it is the reason people flood into informal settlements, running away from the areas.  As the white people did when they arrived, when people refused to go to the mines, they killed cattle in rural areas and took land away from them.  Thank you, Speaker.  T/E

THE SPEAKER: Siyabonga kakhulu Baba.  [Thank you very much, Sir].
The hon Mr M Kubheka.

MR M A I KUBHEKA:  Mr Speaker, hon members of the House.  It is indeed a great pleasure for me to stand here before you and to address you for the first time in my life as a member and a representative of the people in government.

Just on a personal note, growing up as an ignorant boy in the countryside of Newcastle in the 1970s, it never struck my mind that there was anything wrong with the way in which we were living, and how we were governed.  As a result I saw no need for change.  To me, it was as if it was a natural order of things that we were living in the way we were.

It was only in the early 1980s, during my high school years in the township of Madadeni that I began to notice how difficult and different life was for the people of my skin colour.  During the week it was normal school days for us, and during the weekends it was work days.  The vast majority of teenagers of my age group would head for work as garden boys in the white and rich suburbs of Newcastle, so that we could supplement the miserable incomes of our parents who mostly worked as domestic workers or labourers.  Then we would buy ourselves school uniforms from the money we got.

It was during that period and from that experience that I realised the need for change.  Those conditions which were totally unacceptable motivated me like most of the young people of my age at the time to realise the need for change, the need for us to take part in contributing to the struggle for change, at the centre of which was the destruction of the minority government.

The call and the crying of the people for, and my limited understanding at the time of a people's government, strengthened my commitment and resolve to fight for change even more.  But not at all did I ever suspect that I would one day be called upon to serve as an elected representative of the people in government, at least not at this age.  Much as I had never suspected that there would one day be a need for me to work at that age to supplement my parents' income.  Now I agree even more than before that man makes history, but does not make it as he pleases, but from conditions directly inherited from the past.

Mr Speaker, allow me to make my input and address this House on the need for our Provincial Government to pay attention to the youth of our Province.  Making a statement on the importance of young people in any society, this is what one of the greatest leaders and statesmen this country has ever had, the late ANC president O R Tambo had to say, and I quote:

	The country that does not value its youth does not deserve its future.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M A I KUBHEKA:  It is therefore my belief that in mapping a development path for the Province and the country as a whole, it is important that the Government places special emphasis on the youth.  It is a known fact that young people have played a crucial role in the struggle for freedom in South Africa.  They have been forced by the brutality of the apartheid system to take mature decisions in early stages of their development.  They made heroic sacrifices for the development of the nation which we are today.

The energy and commitment they have shown in the struggle against the apartheid system reflects the potential the young people have when making crucial decisions about their lives.  Young people are a significant group in any society, and our Province is no exception.  They possess an invaluable potential which is of major importance for the Government to invest in for a developed future generation.

I believe, Mr Speaker, that it is the understanding and acceptance of this reality that the National Assembly or the National Parliament in 1996 passed the National Youth Commission Act which provided for the establishment of the National Youth Commission.  It will therefore be an opportune moment for us to pay tribute to the National Youth Commission, a representative statutory body, for the tremendous progress they have made, thus far, in investigating and developing a policy framework for addressing the need of young people of our country.  The National Youth Commission has succeeded in analysing problems and challenges facing the young people in this country, and as such are in the process of advising government on how best to mobilise and direct the resources towards improving the situation of our young people.

The situation in our Province.  Our Provincial Government as is the case nationally, and in almost all other provinces, must give young people every opportunity to maximise their full potential to become partners in their province's development process, and to enable them to establish a solid foundation as future leaders of their nation.

It is disappointing though to note that five years has gone by and this Province is still seen as dragging its feet when it comes to pronouncing the establishment of a fully fledged Provincial Youth Commission.

The efforts of the ANC Youth League and the IFP Youth Brigade in this Province which saw the legislation on youth being passed by the Provincial Government, and the ad hoc committee being established deserves credit, but still this is not enough, for legislation alone on paper will mean nothing if there is no room created for implementation.

Despite the efforts of these two organisations, the ANC Youth League and the IFP Youth Brigade, as well as other youth formations in the Province, the needs of young people and their potential, I feel, for contributing to peaceful and democratic development of their communities are still insufficiently taken into account by this Provincial Government.

I will therefore argue, Mr Speaker, that our Provincial Government, through this House, must as a matter of urgency move a step further to create space for the establishment of a fully fledged Provincial Youth Commission.  It is this commission which will provide the youth of our Province with such policy positions, and programme of activity as will propel them to higher levels of dedication in the service of their people.

It is my belief that we should not attempt to dictate detail of what it is which constitute the challenges facing the youth of our Province today.  That is for the Provincial Youth Commission whose immediate establishment I am advocating.

However, it is important to highlight a few of these challenges without getting into a detailed discussion of them.  The first being unemployment and hopelessness.  Research reports put the percentage of unemployed youth population at about 48% in our Province, and our fight against crime will always be difficult if nothing is done to address this problem amongst our young people.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M A I KUBHEKA:  Our Province is one with a high percentage of youth population infected with HIV/AIDs.  Whilst we appreciate the initiatives of our Provincial Health Ministry and the Provincial Cabinet in this regard, much still needs to be done by the directly affected people.  The levels of teenage parenthood is also alarming.  Something has to be done to restore our moral fibre.  There is an increasing number of street kids and homeless young people.  This is to mention but a few.

An approach to financing youth development in the Province.  Government budgets I believe are quantification and implementation of government policies.  They give an indication on how the government reorders the resources of the country with a view to realising development priorities of the country.  They indicate which areas the government will spend resources in.  The governments in countries undergoing transition built into their cost benefit analysis when determining budgetary priorities, social deficits.

It is my view therefore that youth development needs, and priorities should be seen and understood as constituting the social deficit of the Province.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member is left with two minutes to wind up.

MR M A I KUBHEKA:  Our view of financing youth development is that it should not be confined to monies used to meet the operational costs and few projects to be managed by the Youth Commission.  The youth budget should be informed by quantification of projects managed by various government departments that impact directly or indirectly on youth development priorities.  Where such projects do not exist, the Provincial Government needs to earmark funding which can be used for this purpose, and encourage provincial government departments to craft projects accordingly.

In conclusion, it will be to our shame, let me say it will be to our shame if not our doom to evade the challenges and neglects the opportunities we have before us to prepare the younger generation of our Province to continue where the generation of the members who constitute the majority of this House will leave.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, again I therefore believe that it is never too late to address all these problems.  I also hope that the Provincial Government will commit itself in pursuing this with much vigour as a sign of recommitting ourselves to young people of this Province.  I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you. 

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order please!  Order!  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Tarr.  You have got 12 minutes.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I would like to start by congratulating the hon Mr Kubheka who has just delivered his maiden speech in this House.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, Mr Kubheka refers to himself as a young man, so I am sure he will not mind if I do the same.  I would like to say that for him to have got to where he is today, and he is still a young man, he obviously must be a young man of great potential and talent, and I am sure that he will be making a contribution to the political scene for many years.

Just dealing with his speech very briefly.  You know unless you have experienced something, you can never really know what it is like.  I can only imagine how I would have felt if I had experienced the outrage and humility that he felt as a young man, and I imagine that is what has driven him so hard to get to where he is today.

The final thing is, his comments on the Youth Commission is something that deserves all our attention.  The youth are the majority of the population in this Province.  The youth are our future, and we should concentrate on them and do everything we can in our power, in this House, to develop our youth, and to develop their potential.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I would like to then get back to the budget. This is an open budget debate and I would like to now introduce a political note, and in introducing this political note I am going to start off by directing my attention to some of my friends on the other side of this House in the New National Party and the Democratic Party.

It is interesting to note there are something like 30 parties contesting this new election.

AN HON MEMBER:  41.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Thank you for the correction - 41, it makes it even worse.  I suppose that is a reflection of the PR system where you can stand as a party and if you pick up a few votes from here and there and everywhere, and you might just scrape a seat somewhere.  In order to develop my argument, I would like to go back to the old system as we had it in the House of Assembly.  The divisions between parties then were crystal clear.  There was the National Party in those days that supported the apartheid system, separate development, call it what you will, and there was the PFP, and then later the DP who actually stood firmly against that.  

The debate was on a human rights issue then, and it was absolutely crystal clear where you stood.  With the advent of the new South Africa and the 1994 Constitution, from a legalistic point of view or a parliamentary point of view, the human rights issue disappeared.  So what is the present situation?  Most of all, the parties in this House have a common position on the question of human rights.  The issues that are beginning to divide parties in this House, and in the rest of this country, are issues which fall into let us call it broadly, economic issues.  Where do you stand on the economic spectrum?  Are you left to centre, are you right to centre, are you a social democrat or are you a liberal or a Christian democrat.

Of course then the present line up of parties, Mr Speaker ...

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Or a fascist, that is on the extremity, there are some of those too.  The present line up is interesting, Mr Speaker, because we have the DP, we have the New National Party, we have the ACDP, we have the MF, and then we have the IFP, and on many issues also the ANC where in fact we share many of the same values.  You then must ask yourself why so many parties.  If we are looking at the major issues which we share between us, they are more similar than the differences which supposedly divide us.

I believe all these parties are a relic from our apartheid past.  I believe that people still cluster in the comfort zones or the ghettos provided by these parties.  They were comfortable there before, they look to their security there now.  I wonder when this country will mature enough politically that we can start dividing along the lines of the social democrats, or the Christian democrats, or the liberal democrats, and then to suit Mr Cele, perhaps a few crazy lunatic fringes, the fascists etcetera, because we have got them too.  [LAUGHTER]

MR R M BURROWS:  And the communists.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  And the communists as well, as Mr Burrows says.  The sooner this happens then of course we can start getting rid of our apartheid past.  The deck so to speak needs to be shuffled, and people need to be sorted into their correct places in the deck because there are many people who are in the wrong suites.

Mr Speaker, that then brings us to the situation of why, with all due respect, because there are many decent people, people support the DP and the New National Party?  It is actually my argument that it is a historical relic of the past.  They provide a comfort zone for certain people to stay there, and they simply perpetuate what we had before.  

MR R M BURROWS:  Why do we not just have one party, Mike?

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  We need to start dividing, Mr Speaker, into what the normal type of divisions were.  They provide a totally false comfort zone for people who are not prepared to take the real step into the new South Africa, and it is about time they did that.  If they took the real step into the new South Africa, got in there, got their hands dirty, they could make an enormous contribution.  As it is they are wasted.  They go out and tell the voters what they are going to do for them, but in reality they can do nothing for the voters.  They do not have a voice, they are powerless.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  I have seen them in my area, Mr Speaker, they make wonderful promises.  Keep Hilton like it is.  Now their chances of keeping Hilton like it is, if the voters of Hilton vote for them, are fat zero, but they say it.  Their voices would be far better heard if they were to realign with the major parties in this particular House.

MR R M BURROWS: (Whip):  Mike, I guarantee the DP will be larger than the IFP after this election.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order, Mr Burrows.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I do not want this speech to be construed as a joint appeal from the IFP and the ANC, it is not, because I am confident enough that the home for the DP and most of the ANC is actually under an IFP banner.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  I will tell you why, Mr Speaker.  It is quite simple.  I think in the dinner, whatever it is, that the ANC are preparing to put before the electorate, they have got far too much socialist and communist salt to be palatable.  I have no problems at all in saying to the majority of people in those parties, get into the scrum, get into the right party, do something and stop providing a home for people who think you can do something for them.  You can make a wonderful contribution if you actually get into the real South Africa which you are not in at the moment.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  I am also confident enough to believe that you would not as rational people find a home within the ANC.

Mr Speaker, I would just like to touch very briefly on one issue before my time is up.  I would like to come back to my hon colleague Mr Hamilton.  What Mr Hamilton said today I am sure is going to cause grey hairs, and perhaps even less hair for our Minister of Finance.  It is also going to pose problems for our Cabinet.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Well, he has still got more hair than Mr Hamilton, I can see that.  [LAUGHTER]  The reality is money, because you know quite clearly often in history progress follows a visionary quantum leap, and progress follows that, whereas the situation at a given time may not warrant such a step where bold leadership, and imaginative leadership has taken over, that quantum leap has generated, enormous progress that has followed in its train.

All I am saying in support of Mr Hamilton is yes, there is no money and I understand the problems there, but I would certainly hope that the very least that can arise out of what Mr Hamilton said today is that we do seriously look at other ways, at imaginative ways where we can start laying our hands on the necessary finance to go ahead with the airport project and the associated projects.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, with those few brief words, I thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I now call upon the hon member Mrs Downs.  You have got 10 minutes to speak.

MRS J M DOWNS:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  I would just like to add my congratulations to those of the hon member Mr Tarr, to our newest member Mr Kubheka, and just say to him that a province or a country that does not attend to its youth very soon becomes useless.  That was a very admirable speech.  Well done.

Before I get to my budget debate, I cannot continue without responding very briefly to the hon member Miss Nahara's comments on what happened with women's empowerment and the women's caucus in the last couple of years in this Legislature.  The first thing I want to say is that when we came back from Uganda, after having seen the women's caucus in Uganda, and the incredible work that it was doing, and how they were able to take the programme of women forward by grouping together as a group, we all came back here with high hopes.  Unfortunately, and I maybe need to differ with her slightly, I do not think it was so much the will to get things done as political differences, and political manoeuvring that caused the demise of this group.  I share your disappointment, through you, Mr Speaker, because I really feel that we missed an incredible opportunity in this Province to really do things for women.  

I come from a conservative party, and a conservative background, so we are not talking radical women's lib here, but we are talking about improving the day to day lives of the women in this Province which vastly needs improvement.  When we look at the rape rate, when we look at the rate of child abuse, when we look at the issue of domestic violence, when we look at the issue of women just being able to be economically independent, training, all of those things, we have missed a golden opportunity.  I really think that that is a great pity.

On the issue of the committee that was put together to deal with the issues of violence against women and children.  I do not share your sentiment.  That committee did achieve something.  It highlighted issues which I do not want to dwell on here, I would rather do that in the Health debate and in the Safety and Security debate, but there were certain issues that have been undercover for a long time which are causing a lack of conviction in these crimes, which I think the committee did a sterling job of uncovering.  We only had four meetings.  I hope in the new order this committee will carry on, or at least reconstitute itself, I think there is a lot more work that can be done.

Now I would like to go back to the budget debate.  I stand before you for the third consecutive year, and I am probably going to say very much the same things for the third consecutive year, because unfortunately although some things have changed, the greater picture has not.  When you look at our provincial budget, it looks like we are swimming in a straightjacket, and if any of you have ever tried to swim in a straightjacket, what you have to do is you have to flop over on your back and float, otherwise you will drown.  That is really all the Province can do, and you cannot make any progress.  You cannot use your arms and your legs to kick and swim and actually get somewhere.  There are some very good reasons why we have not as a Province been able to make progress, and really push our Province forward in the area of finance.

The first reason is taking inflation into consideration.  Our budget has declined in real terms this year by 0,2%, and that is a fact.  Coupled with the continued underspending in KwaZulu-Natal, and the historic backlog that we have had all this time, and you heard me say this last year, but it is a fact.  Schools were not built in this Province.  Money was not made available to this Province for something like 40 years, and you cannot catch up 40 years of under-funding by giving us an equitable budget.  We actually need more to make up for the historic backlog.  

The chance of improving delivery and education and health is just not possible within the constraints of the budget.  It is not possible to improve conditions at schools.  We are still sitting with schools with no toilets and no running water, and yet last year in this very chamber, the Premier promised that these schools would be eliminated, but within the budgetary constraints it cannot be done.  It is just not possible to do it.

The second problem is, is that a mandatory 85% of the budget, in our case I think it is up to 87% or 88% of the budget is allocated to education, health and welfare which leaves very, very little room to manoeuvre and it exacerbates the situation and the need for spending on maintenance and infrastructure.  Things like roads, classrooms and other necessities are lost because we cannot do it, given our budgetary constraints.  We cannot provide textbooks.  There are so many things that we cannot do.  There is simply no remaining budget with which to maintain our assets.

Talking about assets.  I proposed that this Government provide a provincial asset register, in my very first budget debate which was three years ago, and this still has not been done.  Maybe if we have an asset register there is something that we can do to recover some funds.  I think that should be a priority, I really do.

The third problem is the lack of a retrenchment tool from National Government.  The Provincial Government is not permitted to do full scale retrenchments in the Province, and we are in the ridiculous position of having employees with no work to do, as in the case of the dipping assistants.  There was no budget to provide dips, so the dipping assistants sit and do nothing.

I am not surprised to hear that in departments people are absent or eating chicken or chatting on the telephones, because the truth of the matter is there is no budget for them to be able to carry out the duties that they were originally employed for.

There will be no retrenchment tool until after the election.  Of that I am 100% sure, and I do not think anybody would even take bets on that.  The personnel situation though is set to worsen for us, as the improvement of conditions of services in the new budget will not be available from National Government any more.  We will have to find the improvements for conditions of service within our own budget, and that is going to make our personnel situation even more difficult.

The fourth problem is the lack of collection of own revenue.  Now that National Parliament is passing our budget down in weekly tranches instead of monthly tranches, as they used to, it gives us less room to be able to gain interest on those amounts of monies, and to be quite frank, the collection of fees and so on in hospitals is ridiculous.  I have seen people drive up to hospitals in BMWs and Mercedes and basically get free treatment.  That situation should not be allowed to continue.  I do not think it has ever been this Provincial Government's policy to give free health treatment completely across the board, but de facto that is what is happening.  So that is maybe a little area where we have room to move and to manoeuvre, and I congratulate the Minister for starting the ball rolling and getting a special employee to look into that situation.

The fifth problem that we have is the delay from National Government in creating a framework legislation for the Province to be able to collect its own taxes. 

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member is left with two minutes to wind up.

MRS J M DOWNS:  When I come to talk on the finance, I will be proposing a tax system which could be of enormous benefit both nationally and to this Provincial Government, but without the framework legislation from National Government, our hands are tied.

I must say, Mr Minister, I have got to join in with the rest of my colleagues because within those tight constraints and within those huge difficulties and within those absolutely impossible situations I really think that you have done a sterling job, and you have done the best that you can with what you have.  Unfortunately what we have got is not enough, and we need to join hands.  ANC people on this side of the House need to send the message.  

I am saying it again, it is our people out there who are sitting in classrooms where they cannot even go to the loo.  It is our children that are sitting there where they have to step down a huge step like that just to get into the classroom.  That is an issue that needs to be raised with the Finance and Fiscal Commission, they need to look at the backlog, and take that into consideration.  
I get angry when I go to Gauteng, and I go to Western Cape and I see that all of their students are housed in good schools and have good structural infrastructure, and within those constraints I really think that this whole Parliament needs to join hands and say: "Hey, National Government, you have got to look at the situation on the ground here, and give us what we need to assist the people in this Province".  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr K Panday.  You have got 12 minutes.  Thank you.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!

MR K PANDAY:  Mr Speaker, like the hon member Mr Kubheka, this is also my very first speech in this august Chamber.  Albeit I have been a member in the tricameral Parliament, and I recall with a degree of nostalgia when I had spoken for the first time, that my speech must not be controversial.  I remember at that particular stage the person who followed me; it was the hon member Mr Roger Burrows.

Mr Speaker, I wish to revisit the Premier's policy speech which was debated this morning.  A few comments from some of the hon members leave much to be desired.  It was unfortunate that the opposition members, except the hon Mr Mkhwanazi, boycotted the Premier's speech.  During the debate some of the responses were garbled, warped, irrational and somewhat confusing.  Hon members who missed the opportunity of hearing the hon Premier's speech first hand have not read the text properly.  Examples: some hon members felt that the hon Premier had taken over the Portfolio on Horse Racing, Gambling and Betting.  This is not true.  It is here, that I will quote from the Premier's speech: "I intend ...", there is a very specific word over there indicating his intention and he announced that intention.  There is a whole process to go through.  

AN HON MEMBER:  Why then deny it?

MR K PANDAY:  I did mention that I would rather hon members do not drag me into a debate, particularly sitting down over there, because I have the habit of giving you back with compound interest.  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER

MR K PANDAY:  However, Mr Speaker, not only the hon members were confused, the press did likewise.  I would like to read a letter which I wrote, which appeared in last weekend's paper, the Independent on Saturday.

	It is the democratic right of your journalists to criticise politicians of all hues and political persuasions.  When it becomes clear, however, that you reserve your venom for the IFP and its leaders (and in this instance the hon Mr Lionel Mtshali, the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal), then the record must be set straight.  

	It is well-known and recorded that hundreds of IFP leaders, officials and members have lost their lives in the violence in KwaZulu-Natal.  Hence it is imperative for our party not only to support, but spearhead the campaign for peace in KwaZulu-Natal.  Mtshali has sent circulars to all IFP structures to intensify the peace campaign before the elections.  Isn't this action of someone who is committed to peace and determination to stamp out violence?  Additionally, Mtshali brings with him an iron will to confront the burning realities of the Province at all levels as explained by the IFP national president, the hon Mangosuthu Buthelezi.  

	The contribution of Mr Mtshali in your newspaper (March 6) and the letter of our President not only set the records straight, but pin-point the IFP's will to move the country forward despite the media's myopia, and the various prejudices of politicians against our party.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR K PANDAY:  I know that you must not be impressed.  As I told you, please do not drag me into a debate because I have the habit, I can give you as much as you give me, and that too with compound interest as I said.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR K PANDAY:  
	A careful reading of South Africa's history and the IFP's contribution to the struggle of ideas will indicate why our President was vindicated in his choice of politics that will move South Africa forward.  Among other things, the adoption of GEAR as policy is the epitome and triumph of the IFP's economic policies. 

that which was borrowed by the ANC.  

	KwaZulu-Natal and its people need the IFP for solid leadership and a person of Mtshali's calibre to be in the forefront of the efforts for development, growth and peace.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order!  Order please!

AN HON MEMBER:  On a point of order.  The hon member must refer to the Premier not as mister but as the hon Premier.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR K PANDAY:  Thank you.  Incidentally I should just make mention that when individuals get up like that, one has to also re-examine whether it is not wolves in sheep's clothing.  [LAUGHTER]  However, Mr Speaker, what is important in the Premier's policy speech, I feel strongly, is that the speech is not orchestrated by the IFP.  It is not a speech for political mileage, it is a call for peace and prosperity.  

MR Y S BHAMJEE:  Mr Speaker, will the hon speaker take a question?

MR K PANDAY:  Mr Speaker, as soon as I have completed my speech, if I have got the time, most certainly I will.

MR Y S BHAMJEE:  Oh where is the compound interest?  [LAUGHTER]

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can we have order, hon member Mr Bhamjee.

MR K PANDAY:  It is a clear call for peace and prosperity, and these are universal virtues indeed.  All inclusiveness and unity are the fundamental key aspects of his speech, because without them we build on false premises and foundations.  It is an all inclusive speech because it encompasses all layers of society, business and government.

Mr Speaker, hence the clarion call for the reform of the government, the direct co-operation of civil society and the complete eradication of the insidious violence in our Province need to be heeded.  We cannot eradicate poverty without the participation of the community that is poor.  The initiative of the hon Premier to be at the forefront of the struggle against poverty shows his complete understanding of the existing conditions.  It also shows his wisdom, but above all, his decisiveness.  Hence, the prioritisation of government spending with special emphasis on speedy and efficient delivery on all fronts are the very aspects of his speech.

There is no doubt that the IFP remains committed to the poorest of the poor, and wishes to be a political home for all South Africans, irrespective of race, colour or social and economic conditions.  The philosophy and policies of the IFP have constantly reverberated this in its policies of pluralism and federalism.  We need to accept that diversity ought to be regarded as an element of strength.  We in the IFP have recognised the diverse nature of the building of blocks of society and aim towards achieving unity through diversity.  The challenge we then have is to promote the osmosis of different cultures that germinate out of different building blocks.  Hence, the minorities, Mr Speaker, are and will always be accommodated by the IFP, the only safe political home for everybody.

There are problems in the Province, but there have been achievements as well.  We need to relegate weaknesses to extinction, and we need to build on our collective, united strengths.  Contrary to what the popular press believe, the hon Premier's policy speech is a compassionate call for unity.  Go back and read it.  It is asking for co-operative government, co-ordination and co-operation.  Only through unity of purpose and complete eradication of violence, poverty and squalor, can KwaZulu-Natal become the jewel of this country, as it ought to be.

The human potential and resources in this Province do not belong to the IFP, nor do they belong to the ANC.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  The hon member has two minutes.

MR K PANDAY:  They are the most precious parameters in our attempt to achieve peace and prosperity for all the people in this Province, and throughout the country.

At the 23rd Annual General Conference of the IFP, the leader of the IFP, Dr Buthelezi stated, and I quote:

	Throughout my life I have always brought people together, and I have never regarded any fellow South African as an enemy to be destroyed, because I knew in the end we all have to share our fatherland and work together to make it prosper.

Mr Speaker, as an educationalist, what moved me most in the hon Premier's speech is his determination to achieve discipline and dedication in our schools.  The culture of learning and teaching is sadly missing.  The young pupils of today are the new Buthelezis, Mtshalis, Mandelas and Mbekis of tomorrow.  The Premier's vision for the complete overhaul of education in KwaZulu-Natal is shared by all of us no doubt, and I am sure no one will object to that.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR K PANDAY:  Also, I must share the sentiments expressed this morning about the efficiency and decisiveness of the hon Minister of Education, Mrs Shandu.  Her speech this morning was a gem.  She touched on issues which will uplift the image of education in this Province, and the call is made to every hon member ...

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  The time is up for the hon member.

MR K PANDAY:  That when a suggestion is made on a positive note ...Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Let us have order.  Let us have order please.  I now call upon Mrs Mohlaka who has 12 minutes. 

MRS B S MOHLAKA:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  It gives me great pleasure to be a participant in this debate.  The population census of 1996 has revealed that KwaZulu-Natal has the largest population in South Africa with 8,5 million people.  Therefore it is envisaged that the formula for the allocation of funds by the Central Government be reviewed.

As I sit in most portfolio committees, either as a full member or as an alternate, I have noticed that all departments are far from being satisfied with their budget allocation, which of course has been cut from the big R18 billion cake from the Central Government.

Mr Speaker and the hon House, the National Minister of Finance, hon Mr Trevor Manuel, in his latest budget speech, paid tribute to improved fiscal management, with special reference to KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape, and I also join in congratulating the Minister of Finance.  

This has been done at a cost to other services, particularly to essential services.  The moratorium bites, and it is used as a wielding stick.  Staff shortage percentages are reaching alarming proportions.  Skilled staff is leaving the country in droves to countries like the United States of America, New Zealand, Canada, United Kingdom and the Arab Emirates where they are getting excellent recognition.

A burnout syndrome is looming among the staff members.  Nurses and doctors are resigning from our Government hospitals for greener pastures, where salaries are good, and working conditions are better at the private hospitals and other private sectors.

Staff vacancies in the various departments which occur because of death, retirement or resignation and abscondment are seldom filled because of the moratorium.

Mr Speaker, and the hon House, let me hasten to get to a very urgent and important matter, and that is the Y2K phenomenon or the millennium bug.  

What does it do?  It will shut down computers which recognise the last two digits and are incapable of coping with the double zeros in the year 2000.  In sociological terms, all regimentation and automation will come to a standstill.  Our robots, lifts, escalators and any equipment that is operated by electricity, including trains and aircraft will be affected.  Worse of all, all forms of computers will be grossly affected.

When will this take place?  In the year 2000, on 31 December.  Are we ready to face this monster?  Has the Central Government done its arithmetic to fund us in order for this Province to be ready?  What about the municipal structures?  Is the general public aware of this phenomenon?  What about the business sector?  Has this concept filtered through to our people out there?  Are training programmes organised to face this bug, or are our people going to confuse the Y2K with the TKZEE?

Health service systems on which our lives are dependent will be grossly affected as these systems heavily rely on the more sophisticated machinery.  Think of all the machines in the intensive care units, operating theatres, X-ray departments and laboratories.  Think, hon members, of all the life supporting systems.

Mr Speaker and hon members, think of your treasured information that is kept by your banks, other financial institutions and insurance companies.  Actually insurance companies have already indicated that they will not be part of the game in compensating the lost funds through non-compliance with Y2K.

Y2K Chief Tsieto Moleko says, and I quote:

	Failure could cause South Africa R25 billion if South Africa does not comply within a specific period.

In order for the Province of KwaZulu-Natal to comply fully, this Province needs more funds calculated in billions for training and for information to all the departments.  Tsieto's remarks are reference to South Africa if it does not comply.  We do not want this country to sink into an abyss or doldrums.

The global picture is important.  If our country South Africa is not Y2K compliant it could be downgraded as an investment option after the year 2000.  It will go to those countries that are bug free.

Mr Speaker, I thank you very much, and I wish to congratulate our hon Minister of Finance for his good work.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Cele.  You have got 15 minutes to speak.

MR B H CELE:  Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this excellent opportunity, before I begin to speak.  If I am not mistaken, I believe I am correct, today is the 110th anniversary of the death of Karl Marx.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR B H CELE:  Born in Germany and contributed towards the sociological transformation of our society as we are here today.  If you have studied and looked very clearly in your dialectics, especially moving with materialism.  I am also reminded of one revolutionary produced in Southern Italy called Garibaldi.  During the same period he was with Bismarck who worked so much to unite their respective countries as working for the United Germany and United Italy respectively.  Lest they knew that they were uniting their countries to be divided and to be the centre of fascism that would have to be exported to the world at a later stage.

Then two fascists came called Mussolini and Hitler.  There was one common thing about these two fascists, Mussolini and Hitler.

AN HON MEMBER:  They both look like you.  [LAUGHTER]

MR B H CELE:  Not necessarily.  I am much darker than them.  Was that they did not take a cue from their predecessors.  They said they were not a replica of anybody, they were themselves.  That is a dangerous trend if you do not want to learn from history.  I am not going to dwell on that.

There is no man or woman that is an island.  We are interlinked.  Hence, you are at an advantage if you have started your dialectical materialism, that life is continuous, it is not fragmented.  Once you fragment life, and you do not take a cue from anybody, you are bound to plunge into a serious abyss in the future.  So it is necessary, and very necessary, that we follow in the very sequence of steps, that is what the dialectical materialism says, move in the sequence of steps.  Do not jump steps, you will fall. 

One other thing about this man called Hitler he produced two other even more severe fascists.  They were called Himmler and Goebbels.  If you have ever heard of the night of long knives, where Himmler was responsible for the total destruction of any emerging progressive thoughts, and these two fascists Himmler and Goebbels were allowed to destroy their own society in Germany, and began to export that destruction which is now known as the Second World War.  It killed so many innocent people all over the world.  Even South Africa was involved.  Some of our fathers were called to go, and when they came back, they were given amajazi, when abelungu were given amabhayisikili namaplazi.  [We were given overcoats when white people were given bicycles and farms].

We will have to ensure that we do not have Himmlers and Goebbels here who are completely opposed to humanity and people living as human beings rather than as different unnecessary political parties.  I say so because humanity must prevail.  I say so because the people out there expect us to lead the way for them to live a better life.  I say so because the people out there, say hallelujah when the ANC and IFP speak about peace, because then they will be able to sleep peacefully.  But there are always these evil spirits that when you come close to making peace and you are seen talking about peace, whether you are ANC or IFP, they will jump up and say you have sold them out.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR B H CELE:  I do not know.  Khona into ayishilo.  [He said something].  I am not going to repeat it.  [LAUGHTER]  Thula Millin, and listen.  You are too close to the door now, they will be getting out.  All people that have been that close to the door usually get out.  [LAUGHTER]

The ANC and IFP and all the other parties have a responsibility of prevailing far beyond their narrow political interests.  Violence again is erupting.  Hence, you will sit here and hear people lying.  Unfortunately the hon member Powell, and the hon member Mr Konigkramer are not in this House.  The Goebbels and Himmlers of this world.  Yes, yes.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  On a point of order.  I think the implication that the hon member is making, he is identifying two members on this side, Mr Konigkramer and Mr Powell with the Himmlers and Goebbels of this world.  If you refer to someone as being like Himmler or Goebbels it is an insult, and it does not comply with the concept in this House as an hon member.  I really ask Mr Cele or ask you to ask him to withdraw that remark, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER:  Mr Cele, can you withdraw your statement in terms of Rule 70.

MR B H CELE:  I withdraw, but I will go further to ...

THE SPEAKER:  In terms of Rule 70, I would like to warn members that they must not use unbecoming language.  Thank you.

MR B H CELE:  I will withdraw.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR B H CELE:  The problem is that during the last sitting at Ulundi the hon member Mr Powell stood up and shouted that I presided over the plot or at the meeting that was plotting to kill him.  I asked him to substantiate that and when we left the Parliament to repeat it.  He has not.  To me that is a lie until that happens.

AN HON MEMBER:  No, you are right.

MR B H CELE:  We have requested that that be investigated, but it has not happened.  You cannot just come here and shoot from the hip, begin to shoot everybody and then when people begin to shoot back they are protected.

I read in the paper that in Parliament there was a dinner, a finger lunch or something of that sort when we had left, where Miss Belinda, the former hon member wanted to know from the hon member Mr Konigkramer who has told her things, he said the bogeyman Bheki Cele.  I can imagine him running to report it.  He takes himself too big for me to report to him.  Not me, not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow, not forever.

AN HON MEMBER:  He grew up being big.

MR B H CELE:  Are people allowed to tell lies and get away with it and then they run for protection when those issues are responded to.  Who told me?  The paper quoted him.  Read the papers and do not ask me.  These things happen whenever people work towards reconciliation.  These things happen when people begin to see themselves as humans, and some people will always run and ensure that they do not find themselves.

I would appeal to the majority of people in this House that this should not be allowed.  We must work hard towards a peaceful KwaZulu-Natal.  We must work hard to make sure that our weekends do not tend to be the burying dates or burying calender days.  We must make sure of that.  We must make sure that we do not waste money.  The hon Premier spoke of the political violence in this Province, and the police that are overstressed.  I bet you, with regard to the political violence, less will be done by the police.  Indeed they will do something, but more is to be done by this House, and that will release resources to begin to deal with the crime outside there.  We must contribute and make sure that we deal with the problem.  We must fight with all our energy and power at our disposal to make sure that political violence subsides or now ceases in this Province.

Mr Mthiyane has just left.

AN HON MEMBER:  Honourable.

MR B H CELE:  Hon Mr Mthiyane has just left.  I just wanted to remind him that he spoke about no-go areas.  He has a huge one.  I remember that Lamontville and Clermont have been mentioned as no-go areas, but I do not think that two Ministers who spoke before me would agree with that.  They have gone in there, addressed the large crowds and left without any party interfering with them.  Nothing happened.  They were welcomed, they had drinks, they had sandwiches and they left the township.  They cannot claim that the township is a no-go area.  But Clermont, the Deputy Minister, Sissie Nzimande, came to me wanting to go to Clermont.  I went to the Chair and I linked her with the Chair of our Durban West Region, they spoke and finally Mr B V Ndlovu went there.  It was not because it is a no-go area that he only addressed six people.  That is the number of people that turned up for the meeting, but he did address the meeting in Clermont.  So you cannot then come here and claim that Clermont is a no-go zone area.  But what had happened only last week ...

AN HON MEMBER:  The Premier comes from there.

MR B H CELE:  Angifuni ukusho ukuthi u-Premier uhlalaphi.  [I do not want to say where the Premier lives].  [LAUGHTER]  But what had happened only last week at Unit 17, our cars that were distributing election material were stoned.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member is left with two minutes to wind up.

MR B H CELE:  That is too long.  I thank you so much.  But what happened to the hon member Mr Felgate, as I am here I am holding my breath that as he is there today again, they do not shaya him ngezinsimbi futhi, I hope he survives.  [They do not hit him with an iron rod again].  What has happened, I have never seen the civilised people that go and break amatshe ezikhumbuzo  [commemorative plaques] and break them down as it has happened at Ongoye.  The things that used to happen still happen.  Unfortunately these things are not condemned but condoned, by the members here in this House, that is the tragedy of it.  They are not condemned but condoned.  People talk about civilisation, and then the people are victims themselves when they condone such activities.

Let us prevail, and let us learn one thing, and that is to listen, it makes ourselves better.  I thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  I will now call upon the hon Inkosi Mathaba who has got 12 minutes to speak.  Thank you.

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  Somlomo Baba, angibonge lelithuba engilitholayo ngokungihlonipha ukuthi nami ngiphefumule kuleNdlu.

Okokuqala ngithi angibonge ingcacisho ekahle ebekwe uMhlonishwa lapha uBaba u-Peter Miller ngokwezimali.  Nami ngihambisana kunye nawowonke amalunga asekhulumile ngaphambili ukuthi isabelo sezimali namuhla singconywangconywana, kukhona esiyokwenza kwenzeke.

Okokuqala nje Somlomo Baba, ngithi akengiphendule inkulumo ebekwe uMhlonishwa lapha uBaba uManzankosi ngokuthi isikhathi esingaka uHulumeni waKwaZulu ubonakala engazange enze lutho.

Ngithi akusilona iqiniso lokho nginofakazi abalapha endlini, ukuthi uHulumeni waKwaZulu obuphethwe uMntwana u-M G Buthelezi usebenze umsebenzi omkhulu.  Ngoba wakhe izikole engikholwa ukuthi namuhla sinoDokotela esinabo ngale ngaphesheya uMhlonishwa uBaba u-Doctor Zweli Mkhize obefunda eDlangezwa High School ezikoleni ezakhiwe uHulumeni waKwaZulu, unamaqhuzu namuhla.

Ngedlule lapho.  UHulumeni wakithi wakhe amaklinikhi, abantu bakithi bakwazi ukuthi bathole ukusizakala.  Namuhla sinoNgqongqoshe ophethe lamaklinikhi ongaleya akhiwa uHulumeni wakithi waKwaZulu.  Ngokunjalo futhi lawomaklinikhi akhiwa uHulumeni omdala avulwa futhi uyena.

Baningi engingababala abaHlonishwa abafowethu oGcabashe.  Sinezigebedu lapha zamadoda ngaleya oBaba oMadondo abaphile kuloHulumeni ziqethevu zamadoda alapha namuhla.  Ephethwe ngaMakhosi esebenza edla oBaba uMagubane lapha bayeka izikhwama le njengoba benza umshwanguzo yabantu.  [UHLEKO]  Ngenxa kaHulumeni wakithi waKwaZulu angedlule lapho.

Bengithi angiphendule lokhu kwaBaba uManzankosi kungezwakali kambi esengathithi uHulumeni omdala wakithi awuzange enze lutho.  Inkosi yami ehloniphekile leya sasifunda nayo esikoleni saMakhosi eBhekuzulu nansi lapha iqeqeshwe khona, esikoleni esenziwe uHulumeni waKwaZulu. 

Kunjalo Nkosi yesiZwe Mhlonishwa sasifunda nayo Inkosi, ngakhoke uHulumeni wakithi waKwaZulu omdala usebenzile kakhulu.  UHulumeni wakithi waKwaZulu usebenzile kakhulu ngoba uze waqasha nezingane zezinkedama ezigcwele lapha eLundi.  Waqasha othisha abangakaze baze baxoshwe, sithole isimanga namuhla uma othisha uma sebexoshwa, angikho kodwa lapho ningixolele.

UHulumeni wakithi waKwaZulu ulethe amafemu koSithebe, koMadadeni indaba enkulu kwafika oMabuyakhulu, ayi lona olayindlini. [UHLEKO]  Kwafika oMabuyakhulu koSithebe nakoMadadeni bayifaka unyawo lento, bafaka u-COSATU baxoshwa abantu, balamba abantu.

Ngakhoke Baba ngithi kuliqiniso ukuthi eminyakeni lena emihlanu kusukela ngo-1994 siye sakubona ukuthula umangabe siya okhethweni.  Kodwa njengoba sesiya futhi okhethweni lesibili sesiyaqala sesiyabona futhi manje ukuthi kunodlame oseluqala lubakhona

Siyawafunda nathi Mhlonishwa amaphepha ukuthi kunamadoda esinawo, amanye sinawo khona lapha endlini kuyoyona leNdlu ahamba eshushumbisa izikhali ngoba kufuneka makubulawe amalunga e-IFP.  Siyakuzwa nathi ngamaphepha ayasitshela nathi.

TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, let me say thank you for the opportunity am I getting, for honouring me so that I can express myself in this House.  Firstly, let me say thank you for the clarity presented here by the hon Mr Peter Miller regarding finance.  I also join with all the members who spoke earlier in saying that today's budget is much better, something can be accomplished with it.

Firstly, Mr Speaker, I will respond to the hon Mr Manzankosi's speech, where he says in all this time the KwaZulu Government is seen to have not accomplished anything.  I am saying that it is not true, I have witnesses who are in this House.  

The KwaZulu Government under the leadership of Prince M G Buthelezi, did a lot of work, because it built schools that I believe produced doctors who are among us.  Across there, there is the hon Dr Zweli Mkhize who was educated at Kwa-Dlangezwa High School, at schools that were built by the KwaZulu Government.  Today he has got degrees.

Let me proceed.  Our Government built clinics where our people were able to get help.  Today we have a Minister over there who is in charge of clinics that were built by the KwaZulu Government.  Similarly, those clinics were built by the old government and opened by it.  There are many I can count.  

My hon brothers, Gcabashe and others, we have here experienced men, Mr Madondo and others over there, who lived under that government.  We have stout short men like Madondo here today, they were under the Government of Amakhosi, they worked and ate.  Mr Magabane and others here left their bags that they used as traditional leaders.  [LAUGHTER]  All because of our KwaZulu Government.

I thought I should respond to Mr Manzankosi so that it would not sound bad as though our old government did not accomplish anything.  The hon Inkosi over there, we used to go to school together at Bhekuzulu, an educational institution for Amakhosi.  Here he is, having been trained at a school built by the KwaZulu Government.  It is so, hon Inkosi of the Nation, we went to school with Inkosi.  Therefore, our old KwaZulu Government worked a great deal.  

Our KwaZulu Government accomplished a lot, because it even employed children of orphans, who in their numbers, are at Ulundi.  It employed teachers who were never ever expelled.  We are amazed today when teachers are being expelled.  But then, forgive me, I am not talking about that.

Our KwaZulu Government brought in firms, in places such as Isithebe and Madadeni.  An incredible thing happened, Mabuyakhulu, not the one in this House, and others arrived.  [LAUGHTER]  Mabuyakhulu and others arrived at places such as Isithebe and Madadeni.  They messed up things, putting in COSATU, people were expelled, people went hungry.  

Therefore, sir, I am saying, it is true that in these five years starting from 1994 when we went to the elections, we saw peace as we went to the elections.  But now, as we go to the second election, we are beginning to again see the re-emergence of violence.  We also read the newspapers.  There are men among us, some of them are among us in this very House, who are running weapons in order to kill IFP members.  We learnt this from the newspaper.  They are also informing us.  T/E

THE SPEAKER:  Hon member Mr Gcabashe.

MR S J GCABASHE:  Yes, Mr Speaker, I do not think that the hon member Inkosi Mathaba is correct when he is requested to withdraw into ayishilo bese ebuza ukuthi utheni because uyena oshilo akawidrowe.  [Something he said and then for him to ask what he had said, because he is the one who spoke, so he must withdraw it].

THE SPEAKER:  In fact what I would like to ask, because I do not know what he is supposed to withdraw.  We need to know what he is supposed to withdraw.  Whether he has to withdraw in terms of Rule 70.  If that is it, I do not know.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, the statement by the hon member was by implication, the reference to this side of the House of gunrunning, and he is therefore requested to withdraw that statement.

THE SPEAKER:  I will ask the hon member to continue with his speech.  Thank you.

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your protection.
Bengithi ngifisa ukusho ukuthi lenkohlakalo yamanga ekhona egcwele kulelizwe iyona ezodala ukuthi sibukane ngeziqu zamehlo, sishayane.

Njengoba udadewethu, uMame loya ohloniphekile ongaphezulu ekhuluma ngendaba yaseNyoni kuliqiniso ngoba abomsakazo bake basho bathi endaweni yakwaMathaba namanye aMakhosi u-alibhadwa.  Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi namalunga esinawo kaKhongolose sisebenza ngokuhle.

Ngakhoke nginesikhalazo esikhulu sokuthi uma kuthintwa umuntu - ngicela ukulekelelwa.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Let us give him a hearing.

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  Uma kunjalo Baba Somlomo, ngithi uma kukhona onolwazi lwalokho ukuthi kukhona amalunga ka-ANC aye aphazanyiswa, ngithi amacala pho awavulwe ngani?  Umangabe uMathaba ophethe izibhamu, pho uMathaba akaboshwa ngani umangabe kunjalo?

Ngakhoke ngithi isexwayiso lesi engisibeka nabomsakazo wezindaba nalabo abaphehla udlame kulelizwe.  Angeke thina ngakulelicala sikumele ukuthi - sikhathele bakithi udlame, udlame siyalwazi singaMakhosi nje nanisilalisa ngezisu nisidubula.  Ngakhoke asisazimisele ukuthi sibuyele endaweni enjengaleyo.

Ngakhoke ngithi ukuthula kungumsebenzi waMakhosi.  Amakhosi...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order hon members, let us behave as hon members.  Thank you.

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  Ngiyacabanga Baba Somlomo, ukuthi ngiyoyithola i-injury time yami sengiphazamiseke kakhulu.  [UHLEKO]

Baba Somlomo, ngicela ukuthi sikhulumeni ngokuthula njengamanje, ukuthula into eyenziwa Amakhosi.  Amakhansela nakho konke lokhu kuyafika zolo lokhu akukwazi ukuthula.

Amakhosi iwona ebephethe abantu, ithi laba Amakhosi ebesiphethe oGcabashe, yithi laba ebesiphethe oCele ezindaweni zethu.  Ngoba uMhlonishwa uCele nje esuka e-Port Shepstone ebesuka ngaphansi kophatho lwaMakhosi, uyindoda namuhla engaka usuke ngaphansi kophahla lwaMakhosi eShobashobane.

MR D H MAKHAYE:  INTERJECTION

THE SPEAKER:  Order Mr Makhaye.

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  Ngithi-ke sizalwele khona ukuthi masiniphathe uma kukhulunywa ngenhlalakahle yomphakathi kufanele mayibuzakale lana kithini eMakhosini.

Ngaphandle kwemithetho nemitheshwana eniyenzayo, eyenziwa uHulumeni Omkhulu kulelizwe ukuthi asixabanise nemiphakathi yethu.  Esithi thina ngisho noma angiyishaya uHulumeni Omkhulu afike lapho afika khona sithi thina asisoze sakwazi ukuthi siyihloniphe uma ingakwazi ukuhlonipha isithunzi sethu thina njengaMakhosi.

Kuzobe kungakhona okokuqala lokhu ngisho nabamhlophe sakwenza futhi lokho singaMakhosi sancamela ukuthi Amakhosi ethu ahambe eyohlala emajele, ahamba ayohlala ekudingisweni.  Kodwa ngiyacabanga njengaloHulumeni engingene nami kuyena ukuthi ngicele ukuthi makubekhona ukubambisana.

Inkulumo ekhulunywe uMagalela la ibe yinhle kakhulu ngoba lokho kwakuyizinhloso abevese uMntwana wakwaPhindangene owayenguMholi waKwaZulu la.  Namanje futhi yikho lokhu esisaqhubeka nakho.

Ngicela ukwenza esinye isibonelo esenziwa uHulumeni Omkhulu lana kithina.  Kulezinsuku lezi kade ngivakashele eMpumalanga la sesizuze khona umphakathi, alive licebile izwe laseMpumalanga.

I-IFP iyabutha nje, iyabutha manje i-IFP, kodwa inkinga engibenayo ukuthi lapha kwaMahlalela eMbuzini Inkosi yakhona iye yaxoshwa amalunga ka-ANC.

Amakhosi akabhekelekile kodwa sithola ukuthi lapha e-Maritzburg umuntu nje phaqa... 

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS.

THE SPEAKER:  Ngicela kube khona ukuziphatha okuhle, ilunga elihloniphekileyo uMnumzane uCele, noMnumzane uMakhaye.  Thank you.  [I ask that there be proper behaviour, hon member Mr Cele and Mr Makhaye].

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  Niyohlala nisinda.  Ngithi ebengithi ngiyakubeka lana eNkosini yami uMahlalela ayikho ayihleli nesizwe sayo siyayifuna.

Ngakho ngibuza uHulumeni Omkhulu umangabe ewathanda Amakhosi ebuthanda ubuKhosi ukuthi wenziwa yini ukungayisizi Inkosi.  Kwenziwa yini uHulumeni ngasosonke isikhathi kube uyena ofaka unyawo.

Umbuzo wami futhi wesibili, ayiboshwa ngani, umbuzo wami futhi wesibili ngithi uma uMhlonishwa uDokotela uMandela kade eya kosonta eyogida lapha namaNazaretha atshele uMntwana waKwaPhindangene ukuthi uyahamba useyobeka Inkosi, uyoyifihla Inkosi esho umuntu.

UMhlonishwa lona olapha phambi kwami uBaba uNdosi ngingaphansi kwekomiti lakhe sixoxile naye lendaba ukuthi abangabizi uBhekuyise ngokuthi uyiNkosi ngoba akasiyo.  UBhekuyise Ephraim Ngwane osesishiyile namuhla.  Okuthe ngomhlaka 27 ku-February wahamba uDokotela Mandela wayakofihla umuntu ethe Inkosi.

Ngifisa ukuthi ngazise leliPhalamende, ngazise leNdlu ukuthi...

TRANSLATION:  I was saying, I wish to say that the corruption of lies existing so abundantly in this country is what is going to cause us to look at each other with hostility and fight each other.  As my sister the hon madam across there spoke about the issue of Inyoni, it is true, because those in the Press once said that the areas of Mathaba and other Amakhosi, are no-go areas, but I think that we work well with members of the African National Congress.  Therefore, I have a serious complaint that when a person is disturbed - I need assistance, please.

If it is so, Mr Speaker, I am saying if there is anyone with information that there were members of the ANC who were disturbed, why are cases not being opened?  If Mathaba is the one carrying a gun, so why is Mathaba not being arrested if it is so?  
Therefore, I am saying this is a warning I am sending to those in the press and those who are instigating violence in this country.  On this side we will not tolerate that.  We are tired of violence, we know violence.  Being Amakhosi that we are, you used to make us lie on our stomachs and shoot us, therefore we are not prepared to return to an area like that.

Therefore I am saying, peace is a function of Amakhosi.

Mr Speaker, I think that I will receive my injury time.  I have been disturbed quite a lot.  [LAUGHTER]  Mr Speaker, I would ask that we speak about peace right now.  Peace is something that is a creation of Amakhosi.  Councillors and others are fairly new, they know nothing about peace.  

Amakhosi were the ones governing the people.  We, Amakhosi, were the ones governing Gcabashe and others.  We were the ones governing Cele and others in our areas.  The hon Cele, coming from Port Shepstone was under the administration of Amakhosi.  Today he is a man of this size.  He was under the administration of Amakhosi at Shobashobane.

I am saying, the very reason we were born was to govern over you.  When one talks about the welfare of the community it is us, Amakhosi, who have to be asked about that.  Besides, the laws and rules that you legislate and those legislated by the National Government in this country, place us in conflict with our communities.  
We are saying, even if the National Government can come up with legislation as far as it wants, we will never be able to respect that legislation if it does not respect our dignity as Amakhosi.  That will not be the first time.  Even with the whites we did it.  As Amakhosi, we opted that our Amakhosi go into prisons, go into exile.  But I think that in this Government, I am a part of, I should ask that there be co-operation.

The speech presented by Magalela here was very good, because that was the objective with the Prince of KwaPhindangene, who was the leader in KwaZulu, and even now, we are proceeding with it.  May I please make another example of what the National Government is doing to us.  In recent days I was visiting Mpumalanga, where we have made gains with the community.  Mpumalanga is a very rich country.

The IFP is just collecting votes.  The IFP is now collecting votes, but I have one problem.  There at Kwa-Mahlalela at Mbuzane, Inkosi, of the area was driven away by ANC members.  Amakhosi are not taken care of, yet we found that in Pietermaritzburg if a black person...  

THE SPEAKER:  I ask that there be proper behaviour, hon member Mr Cele and Mr Makhaye.  Thank you.

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  You are lucky you survived.  What I wanted to say regarding my Inkosi Mahlalela, he is not there, he is not with his nation.  His nation wants him.  

Therefore, I am asking the National Government that if it likes Amakhosi and it likes traditional leadership, why then is it not assisting Inkosi?  Why is it that the government is always the one that messes up things?  

Also, my second question, why is he not imprisoned?  Also, my second question is, when the hon Dr Mandela went to worship and dance with the Nazarene Congregation, why did he tell the Prince of KwaPhindangene that he was going to lay to rest an Inkosi, to bury an Inkosi, referring to an ordinary person?

This hon who is here in front of me, Mr Ndosi, in whose committee I serve, we had discussions about this issue and that they should not refer to Bhekuyise as an Inkosi because Bhekuyise Ephraim Ngwane, who today is deceased, is not an Inkosi.  Yet, on 27 February, Dr Mandela went to bury a person having said he is an Inkosi.  I wish to inform this Parliament to inform this House that ...  T/E

THE SPEAKER:  Ilungu elihloniphekileyo, Inkosi uMathaba useneminithi elilodwa eliseleyo.  [The hon member Inkosi Mathaba has a minute left]. 

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  I-injury time yami?  [My injury time].

MR S J GCABASHE:  Bengicela ukubuza ukuthi Inkosi ingawuthatha yini umbuzo?  [I would like to ask whether Inkosi can take a question]?

INKOSI K W MATHABA:  Uma sengiqedile eminithini elilodwa Gcabashe.  Bengifisa ukusho lapha ngo-1996 uHulumeni waKwaZulu ngaphansi kwaBameli u-Friedman and Falconer incwadi yanikezwa Inkosi ephethe njengamanje wehlulwa icala lowomuntu ukuthi uyiNkosi, akazange abe Inkosi.

Kubukeka uMhlonishwa esesikhundleni esikhulu exoxa ebuKhosini.  Ngakhoke ubuKhosi angikholwa ukuthi nina enihleli ngapho niyabuthanda, kodwa siyoba ngaMakhosi koze kubuye uJesu Krestu ezulwini.  Ngiyabonga.

TRANSLATION:  When I am finished, in one minute, Gcabashe.  I wish to say that in 1996, the KwaZulu Government, under the attorneys Friedman and Falconer, issued a letter to the Inkosi currently in charge.  That person lost the case of being an Inkosi.  He has never been an Inkosi.  

An hon person in a high position is seen talking about traditional leadership.  Therefore, I do not believe that those of you sitting on that side like traditional leadership.  But we will remain Amakhosi until the return of Jesus Christ from heaven.  Thank you.  T/E

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order please!  I am surprised that the Chairperson of the Finance Committee is behaving in this fashion.  Really, I do not want to have an argument with you, hon member Mr Makhaye.  I do not want to have any argument with you.  Please behave yourself.  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mr Nel who has got seven minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MR W U NEL:  Baba Somlomo, sizwe ukuthi Inkosi uMathaba ulapha eMpumalanga ne-IFP bayabutha nje.  Sifuna ukumkhumbuza ukuthi aqaphele phela kungabachithekeli lapha eduze kwasekhaya.

TRANSLATION:  Mr Speaker, we heard that Inkosi Mathaba and the IFP are just making gains at Mpumalanga.  We want to remind him to be careful that they do not loose the local vote.  T/E

Mr Speaker, it is ironic that at this time our Department of Finance and the Minister has got an extremely difficult situation under control, but at the same time with sadness we to have to review developments in the country that are strangling our people and the economy:
 
- 	The trauma of the victims of violence and crime.  
- 	The negativism of business who, instead of investing, are contracting; 
- 	The depression of hundreds of thousands of people who are continuing to lose their jobs; 
- 	The bewilderment and the fear of youth who endlessly join the pool of work seekers without hope of achieving their dreams.

It is ironic that in 1994, I placated voters in Pietermaritzburg when we were campaigning saying that there was one thing that I thought that the ANC would deliver, and that was law and order, and they proved me wrong on my undertaking, and I regret that.  On the contrary, as we review events in Richmond, Lindelani, in the Cape Flats, Bulwer, on the steps of the Supreme Court, we have to admit that the ANC has failed to deliver law and order, and perhaps we must also add that the IFP has failed to deliver law and order, and maybe at times they have been fuelling violence, which is a pity indeed.

While business has increasingly suffered from a lack of confidence, and the public is traumatised by thugs and criminals, it seems the ANC has now given up and surrendered to the criminals and to POPCRU.  I will back this up with two contentions.

Recently, and very belatedly, the Department of Correctional Services suspended 33 prison employees in KwaZulu-Natal, some of whom were facing serious charges, including murder.  For two months various senior Cabinet Ministers who had pretended that they did not know what was going on, and had turned a blind eye while POPCRU physically evicted Mrs Kgosidintsi the newly appointed Provincial Commissioner of Prisons, from her office - a woman mind you - on at least three occasions.

Now finally, under pressure from media reports, and in fact also a very embarrassing parliamentary debate in Cape Town, there was action, and the 33 were suspended, including the Maritzburg Prison boss, Mr Ngcobo, and including also the provincial human resources manager, Mr Nhlanhla Ndumo.  However, with the suspension also came capitulation, because they put on leave the courageous woman who had resisted for so long, and they installed a temporary acting commissioner in the Province.  It took a long time to serve the suspension orders on many of the members, some of whom they said could not be found, others just carried on working as if nothing had happened.

The latest outrage is that the Pietermaritzburg Prison boss, Russel Ngcobo and the provincial human resource manager, Nhlanhla Ndumo, are reported to have been travelling, touring the prisons of KwaZulu-Natal, after their suspension, in a government vehicle looking for money, financial support from POPCRU members.  This is a flagrant violation of their suspension order, and we cannot tolerate that sort of thing.  I heard earlier that this side of the House were accusing the other of not condemning violence and intimidation, but condoning it, but perhaps the double standard applies on this side as much.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR W U NEL:  It is not only in Correctional Services that this rot has set in, but the Minister Skweyiya and the Minister Mufamadi were also aware of what was going on, and nothing happened and POPCRU ...

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order! Order!  I do not want to be forced into the situation where I will order members to leave if they continue behaving in this fashion.  Really, I do not like that.  This is the last warning.  Thank you.  Hon member Mr Makhaye.

MR D H MAKHAYE:  Will the hon member Mr Nel take a question?

MR W U NEL:  Yes, I will.

MR D H MAKHAYE:  Can the hon member inform us about the treatment he metes out to his farm labourers at his Ingogo farm.

MR W U NEL:  Mr Speaker, can you tell me how much time I have?  If I can on a point of information do that on another occasion, I will give a full reply to that because I do not think it is appropriate to try and do a half measure, and I am prepared to do just that.

AN HON MEMBER:  In the Agriculture vote.

MR W U NEL:  I want to come back to this malignant tumour that grows in our midst, and it also happens here in the TLC where suddenly we have the appointment of Excalibur who has got various dubious connections to Mr McBride and whose MD, Mr van der Byl has been accused of passing on weapons to people that had not been registered, and other people who have had dockets opened for allegations of murder, that this firm is appointed by the ANC dominated council of Pietermaritzburg Msunduzi at a cost of R75 000 per councillor per month to look after three ANC councillors.

We want to know where is the SAPS.  Why is it necessary for Mr Haswell, the acting Town Clerk to tell us that because they had to act urgently, they had to find a private organisation to do it, as if the SAPS is incapable of acting with urgency.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR W U NEL:  So we think that perhaps there is a sinister plot here.  We are told that the NIA has intercepted a national hit list of ANC officials, and if that is so, it is very serious indeed, but if that is so why are they only looking after three people, and not everybody on that hit list?

Sir, on TV and in the media, but on TV especially we saw footage of people in Pietermaritzburg with bizarre looking automatic weapons making this previously known as Sleepy Hollow look very much like Freetown in Sierra Leone, where the bandits have been holding the people to ransom in the recent times.

We need to look whether there is not perhaps a subplot in all of this.  Is Excalibur with its stated intelligence arm now being funded with taxpayers/ratepayers' money to create a Midlands private army?

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member's time is up.

MR W U NEL:  Thank you, sir.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  I now call upon the hon member Mr E T Vezi.  You have 12 minutes to speak.

MR E T VEZI:  Mr Speaker, hon members.  I rise also to present what might be termed my maiden speech.  I am, however, very disappointed that having served on the now defunct KwaZulu Government I should now come here and witness what I would term a circus.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR E T VEZI:  Mr Speaker, I have no time to dwell on what has been said here, especially with regard to violence.  I can say a lot about violence, but a lot has been said, and I will now focus on local government.

Out there in our streets there are men and women who are waiting for delivery.  In fact they would be shocked if they walked in here and heard some of the speeches which have been exchanged.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION.

MR E T VEZI:  Well, they are not doing the man in the street any good, and they will never do us any good.  What we intend doing, in order to assist our Premier, and our new education Minister, and I must start by applauding our Minister of Finance for what he has accomplished in KwaZulu-Natal.

I said I would focus on local government.  I think what we should do, and this is my suggestion, is that we should revisit the size of our local government.  I appreciate that we are all on a learning curve, and because of that we tended to invite a lot of teachers to come and serve on the Regional Councils.  Now that we have successfully, I believe, negotiated the learning curve, it is now high time, in order to help our new Minister of Education to perform, to recall some of those teachers.  Some of them are principals, some of them are deputy principals who have no business to be sitting on Regional Councils in fact, if we are going to have a successful education system.  We need to recall those principals and deputy principals so that they can go back to the classrooms where they belong.  In that way we will then manage our education system in a proper way, because I believe that it is now being called management by remote control.  The principal needs to be there to see that discipline is exercised.

AN HON MEMBER:  Hear! Hear!

MR E T VEZI:  We will need to get the young men who are unemployed and encourage them to get involved in local government so that they can take the place of those teachers.

Mr Speaker, even the size of our Regional Councils I think needs to be reduced in order to save on the budget.  I have attended some of these Regional Council meetings.  They are too bulky.  There are some people there who make no meaningful contribution, because it is too big.  I am a realist, Mr Speaker.  I am a realist.

As I mentioned earlier on, I am very, very proud to have been part of the erstwhile KwaZulu Government.  It was said here that the KwaZulu Government, in 27 years, had achieved very little.  But I served in that Government, a Government which set an example in South Africa, which was led by one of the best African leaders.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR E T VEZI:  Or the best leader Africa has ever produced, Dr M G Buthelezi.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR E T VEZI:  Many years ago, before we even spoke about the RDP, he sent young men to places like Israel and China to go and study about co-operative societies.  The only problem is that he had no support from the government of the day.  He had no financial support to make this dream come true.  Had he been allowed to continue, we would not be experiencing the problems we have today.  We would not have people squandering RDP funds as they are doing today.  The young men were there, they had been trained, but they had nothing to do.

The problem in this country is that Africa is well-known for never learning from its mistakes.  We have seen it happen even in this House.  As a young man I remember the first political meeting I ever attended was a meeting of the then Progressive Party.  The United Party was then in power, and a brave man like Leo Boyd stood up at that meeting, I must say I was the only black sitting there.  He said: "I say Africa never learns from mistakes".  If we had listened to the Progressive Party then, or the government of the day had listened to the Progressive Party then, we would not be having the violence and the problems we have in this country.

Let me quote what he said.  Listen to me, let me quote what he said:

	You deny the black man the right to make a cross on a piece of paper.  A day will come when he will have to put a cross on your grave.

It happened.  Did it not happen?

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order!

MR E T VEZI:  At the time he was called a "kaffir boetie" by those who did not want to repent.

MR E T VEZI:  He was called a "kaffir boetie".  [LAUGHTER]

THE SPEAKER:  Order, hon member.  Order!  Order!  I will ask the hon member to take his seat please.  Hon member Mr Cele.

MR B H CELE:  Can this hon member take a question?

MR E T VEZI:  At the end of my speech, sir.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  You may continue, the hon member.

MR E T VEZI:  Thank you very much.  I will repeat another one, sir.  He said, and I quote:

	He who rides on the back of a tiger often lands in its tummy.

That was Leo Boyd many years ago.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR E T VEZI:  Ja, I suppose the Raj was not even in existence at the time.  [LAUGHTER]  At the time the then United Party - it was said it was full of tired old men and timid young men.  Tired old men and timid young men.  That is how the United Party was described at the time.  You never took heed, you never listened, now you have to pay the price, because there is what we call the unchanging law of harvest which says every man will reap whatever he sows.

AN HON MEMBER:  Correct.

MR E T VEZI:  We shall all reap.  If we do not listen.  Before I sit down, Mr Chairman, Mr Speaker. 

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR E T VEZI:  Well, he can be a Chairman.  When he is in committee he is a Chairman.

AN HON MEMBER:  Correct.

MR E T VEZI:  I have been in this game for quite a long time my dear.  Yes.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR E T VEZI:  Before I sit down, I would like to mention that we are determined, and we will pay any price to see that peace indeed prevails in KwaZulu-Natal.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR E T VEZI:  We will go to the end of the world to see that peace is indeed established in KwaZulu-Natal.  I come from Izingolweni, and I know personally that there are five tribal areas at Izingolweni which were never affected by political violence through my efforts, but I would warn my colleagues as the elections are drawing closer, please colleagues, colleagues across, go out, warn the young people at grass-root levels, we are being vilified, I was vilified then for standing for peace, and now they have started the game again.  We were vilified.  Insults are being hurled at us.  There is a price we are prepared to pay for peace, and there is a limit to that price.  I thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  I now call upon the hon member Inkosi Mlaba.  You have 10 minutes to speak.  Thank you.

MR B H CELE:  Are you then prepared to take a question?

AN HON MEMBER:  Time is up.

THE SPEAKER:  Unfortunately I have called the on hon Inkosi Mlaba to start speaking.  Thank you.

INKOSI Z M MLABA:  Mr Speaker, we are dealing with the budget of the Province which is just like the previous one.  The only difference between this year's budget and that of the previous one is that this is the final one for our first five year term since being the new government.  This kind of budget for all the departments will be welcomed by the people of our Province.  It is in the interest of the people of this Province that this Province should receive a sound budget at all levels.  We will always welcome the kind of budget that will help with the transformation of our people's lives.

The communities in this Province have seen many projects since 1994.  Some have been completed and some uncompleted in urban areas and rural areas which obviously confirms the honouring of the promises that our Government made to our people that they would experience the general development in five years or less than five years.

I can name a few of the projects that have been initiated by our departments.  The Department of Roads and Transport has done wonderful work in paying attention to the construction and maintenance of roads in the rural areas.  The Department of Education and the Department of Works have done good work in the building of schools in both the rural and urban areas.  The majority of our people now have access to clean water and electricity.  There are very few areas today without clinics.  The Department of Health has built the clinics using a geographical system, trying to afford everyone easy access to health centres.  We have seen some new community centres being built, self-help schemes being put into place in the rural areas where there is poverty.  I am proud to praise our Government for the wonderful efforts displayed by our departments in trying to make our community realise their hopes and dreams made prior to the 1994 elections.

Mr Speaker, I have noted with interest that all the departmental allocations have been increased by a fair percentage for this financial year.  Among the departments that got a significant increase is Traditional Affairs.  I have learnt that the large portion of the cake will go towards the salaries of the Amakhosi.  The good thing about the increase is that the Amakhosi in all the provinces will receive equal salaries and benefits, e.g. pensions.  This has never happened in history.  With the uniform and standardised traditional leaders' salaries we believe it will help to improve the Amakhosi and their families' lives in many respects, and it will help in minimising the conflict among themselves.  It will also end the manipulation by political organisations and certain powerful political individuals in their areas.

Another important department which I would like to say something about is the Department of Housing and Local Government.  The increase of the budget allocation is too little, if it is at 9%.  It deserves to be increased to at least 90%.  I am saying that because there are still plenty of things that need to be done in the Province, especially in the Amakhosi and municipality areas, where there is big damage that needs to be looked at.  This damage was caused by the by-laws and the legislation during the apartheid era which led to the indigenous people of this country to be fourth class citizens.  In all the areas, be it urban, rural or agricultural, the people's needs are the same.  People will blame the local government councils of this Province if there are people of this Province who still do not get private water connections, electricity, sanitation, community centres, promotion of tourism and affordable houses et cetera.  It therefore means that the basic needs I mentioned earlier will need a fat budget in order to take care of the previously disadvantaged communities.

Mr Speaker, one must not leave aside the importance of the Education and Culture's budget.  Looking at the problems this Department is facing, the budget should be doubled in order to cope with the problems, and we hope the process to solve these problems will not take too long.

In conclusion, I welcome the budget presentation by the Minister of Finance, and I congratulate him for the manner in which he handled it.  Thank you, sir.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon member Mrs Millin.  You have got 12 minutes.

MRS T E MILLIN:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  As we discuss this budget debate, mindful of its historic significance - as noted by the previous speaker - namely the last of the current five year term, how appropriate that our own hon Finance Minister should be doing so with such resounding success - by replacing an over-expenditure of R1,7 billion in 1997/98 with an estimated saving of some R241 million in 1998/99.

As the hon Minister states in his message in this annual report for the financial year 1998/99: "What a remarkable achievement by all concerned".  Hon Minister, your trumpet blowing on your and your Department's behalf is well justified.  Borne out, as well, by the ringing endorsement you received by no less a personage than the hon Minister of Finance, Minister Manuel in his recently delivered budget speech in Cape Town.

Having stated thus, Speaker, and notwithstanding the fact that KwaZulu-Natal receives the largest slice of the provincial budget cake, when seen against our population numbers, and the fact that the considerable majority of our population live either on, or below the recognised poverty levels - not to mention the sheer size of our Province, and the fact that the budget expenditure of our Province is dominated by personnel costs and transfer payments - with such costs either prescribed in law or legislation, or driven by national mandates and agreements - such commitments unfortunately leave precious little of the budget for the Ministries and their respective departments outside the big three, namely Health, Welfare and Education, and similarly very little for construction and other programmes that would be of benefit to the people of our Province.

The hon Minister, in his introduction to the vision and mission of his Department, invokes the advisory: "to ensure that your Rand goes an extra mile" -  Unfortunately advice which, in spite of the best of intentions I am sure, becomes increasingly challenging to meet, not only for government departments, but most definitely for the man or woman in the street.

For example, our cash-strapped Education Department is and will be unable to maintain the upkeep of many schools in various states of disrepair, let alone all the otherwise fundamental requirements, such as running water and acute shortage of toilets at many schools.

The Health Minister and his Department reported at our recent committee meeting, a decrease in services available resulting in an overall lowering of standards in the levels of health care, a situation all too evident all over our country in fact, and, at a time when dramatically increased demands are being made on our institutions.  Witness the AIDS pandemic and the frightening escalation of attempted murder, rape, robbery, motor accident victims requiring major surgery.

Further, as reported recently in the Daily News, 23 February 1999, the political correspondent being Clive Sawyer, states:

	A budget time bomb is ticking for South Africa in the next millennium, because it is not spending enough money on maintaining vital public sector assets, such as roads, hospitals, police stations and clinics.

To which one could add schools of course.  All this against a background of the dismal news that South Africa is officially in recession (borne out by figures given by Government Statistics: South Africa) showing that our gross domestic product or GDP shrank for two successive quarters.

These, Mr Speaker, are but a few of many examples of the severe, even harsh budgetary constraints imposed on our Province.

The reasons for these constraints are many, certainly not least - as a result of corruption by government officials at national level, which have cost our country around R30 billion since 1994, with Telkom, for example, owed R127,4 million by national Ministries, and R240,6 million by provincial departments for services rendered.  I sincerely hope our Province is not included in those.

It is no secret, in fact it is headline news currently, that the Judge Heath Investigative Unit proving so effective in the fight against corruption, and the recovery of misappropriated funds has been rewarded with a budget cut by the hon the Minister of Justice, (or is it injustice?)  Not to mention stinging protestations from the aforementioned hon Minister Manuel joining in the fray.

We also hear a great deal these days about calls for scrapping our country's foreign debt by those who misguidedly believe such action to be the panacea or cure-all for all our financial woes, to which all sane, level headed people can only say a vehement no.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MRS T E MILLIN:  They are mainly on this side of the House, with a few the other side.

AN HON MEMBER:  Them, but not you.

MRS T E MILLIN:  Unless of course we want to see our Rand, about which our hon Minister waxes so eloquent, become numbered in the hundreds, thousand or even millions to the Dollar, the Pound, Ecu or Yen.  Or, if we want to see long term foreign investors disappear faster than mist before the African sun, then by all means join the childish chorus for scrapping our foreign debt.

Incidentally, contrary to popular myth, Mr Speaker, which is instigated and perpetuated by the propaganda machinery of the SACP/ANC/COSATU lobby, South Africa's massive foreign debt in the region of R300 billion, was not incurred as a legacy of apartheid.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can we have order please.

MRS T E MILLIN:  Rather a mere R235 million of the R300 billion, as pointed out by none other than Finance Minister Manuel was incurred during the so-called apartheid years.

So if we, as a nation, are really serious about addressing the many ills that are hindering our progress, we need to be honest with ourselves and overcome the culture of unwarranted entitlement, apathy, sloth and plain immorality that threatens to engulf all of us.

We need to replace all these bad habits with a healthy dose of commitment, discipline and hard work as so eloquently espoused by our hon Minister of Education, Mrs Shandu, earlier today.  If we do rededicate ourselves, we shall reap rich rewards.

Our people of all races, so hard pressed by unemployment - which is fast approaching record levels, (according to the Mercury Editorial of today, 16 March), they need a hand up, not a hand out - which merely perpetuates the culture of dependence.

Therefore, it is encouraging to note that our small business sector from whom much of the country's growth is going to have to come, is to be assisted and facilitated by our KwaZulu-Natal Parliament's Business Rehabilitation Trust Fund Act.  Clearly this R10 million trust fund will be severely limited in its capacity to help every business requiring assistance.  Therefore, it is to National Government that we must turn to facilitate a more enabling environment for small and medium business, and a very good start, I must say, Mr Speaker, would be to repeal or at very least radically amend the Basic Conditions of Employment Act.

In conclusion, I would just like to quote from my President's recent address during our hugely successful campaign launched at Umlazi:

	The IFP plan to achieve prosperity is built upon reality and pragmatism.  The IFP knows that a mere redistribution of resources and wealth will not address the present shortages.  The simple fact is that South Africa does not have enough resources which means that even if we divide the cake differently, many are still going to go hungry.  We need to grow the cake, and we need to focus all our energies on speeding up the growth of our economy, and in so doing we cannot afford for those with agendas of their own to influence or hinder our drive.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you, Mrs Millin.  I now call upon Mr Matthee.  Mr Matthee, you have eight minutes.

MR J C MATTHEE:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, I am sure the hon member will forgive me for not following on her.  But, sir, I would just like to come to the hon the Minister, to thank him for the budget that he has presented to Parliament.

I remember when the hon member was appointed, he was invited to a dinner and he likened his appointment as a poisoned chalice that has been given to him.  Well, I want to say to the hon the Minister, as time has gone by things have progressed very favourably, and we certainly want to congratulate you on the tremendous work you have done, together with your staff.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can I interrupt the hon member.  There is a slight problem with the machines upstairs, and there is a request that the hon member should please swop microphones.  I hope that satisfies.  Thank you.  Will you continue, hon member.

MR J C MATTHEE:  Thank you.  Mr Speaker, but of course the hon member has been given another poison chalice by the new hon the Premier, and that is to see that the whole Province and all departments become Y2K compliant.  I was just wondering if the hon Minister could inform this House as to what expenses he is looking at, what it will cost, because as far as I know, that has not been budgeted for, and I sincerely hope that he will give us some indication also of a time frame as to when that will be completed.

But at least we can say that some schools will have some books.  When this budget is passed eventually, we can say that there will be some supplies for our clinics, the multitude of clinics that we were built by the ANC Minister, that are not even properly staffed, that do not even have all the materials to serve the community.  I sincerely hope that supplies will be sufficient for our population in KwaZulu-Natal.

I find it a little bit strange that the hon the Premier omitted, unless I missed it somewhere, to mention in his address what his views are on AIDS in KwaZulu-Natal.  Very little money has been allocated by different departments to this particular subject, and I sincerely hope that the hon the Premier in his vote which will be discussed tomorrow, will give us some indication of how the different departments are going to handle this problem.

The hon the Premier as well as the hon member Mr Hamilton, mentioned the development of La Mercy.  I would just like to add, if we as a Province are serious in negotiations regarding the new airport, then we have got to put money on the table.  It is no use going to the table to negotiate with other role-players, because your voice will not be heard.  The only way you can prove your sincerity from this Government is that you have got to put money on the table, and I believe when that takes place, that airport will become a reality.  I do not want to repeat what the hon member Mr Hamilton said, but it makes sense that our tourism will just quadruple.  There is no question about how our tourism will increase in this Province.  So I plead with the hon the Premier that this Province considers seriously to put some money on the table, together with the Durban Metro to get this airport off the ground once and for all.

The hon the Premier earlier this morning, mentioned that: "I am going to lead this Province", and I am very pleased to hear that, sir.  There are a number of things that he should attend to, and one of these problems is the multitude of consultants that this government contracts to.  It is tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of Rand that we have spent over the last five years in employing consultants where we are supposed to have competent officials to do the necessary research.  Yes, there are certain areas where you need specialised research, I grant that, but these are few and far between.  But at the drop of a hat, this Province runs to consultants and we pay enormous amounts of money that is just going down the drain.

The other issue that I would like to mention, is that of the aircraft that the Province is currently leasing.  I do not exactly know the finer details.  But in principle, the hon the Premier has now indicated that he is moving his office to Ulundi.  Sir, that plane travels from Durban every day via Pietermaritzburg to Ulundi.  It is not even full, but his whole staff compliment, whoever lives in Durban and Pietermaritzburg has to go on a daily basis to Ulundi at tremendous cost.  Even if one looks at the time, they arrive in Ulundi at 8 o'clock in the morning.  By the time they get to the office it is half past eight/quarter to nine.  Then they have to leave early again to catch the plane back to Pietermaritzburg and Durban.  I believe that this is a total waste of taxpayers' money, valuable money that you could be using in other areas of this Province, as far as our education and hospitals is concerned.  I believe that this must be seriously looked into, because this aircraft is costing this Province millions and we are not getting anything in return.

Let us start in this Parliament, in this very House.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Two minutes more for the hon member.

MR J C MATTHEE:  If we see how many staff members are actually working right now while we are sitting here after 4:30.  How many staff members have actually left, gone home at 4:30 and this Parliament is still in session?  I believe that if we are serious in leading our citizens to have a greater and a better promise, sir, then we must start with the parliamentarians, and with the staff that works in Parliament.

Last, but not least, I was very perturbed to hear and to read in the newspapers that the hon the Premier has alienated the business community by telling them: "Look, if you want to see me, you must come and see me in Ulundi".  I do not know whether that was reported correctly.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR J C MATTHEE:  I say if it was reported correctly.  But if there is one thing that this Government will have to learn very quickly, and that is that you have got to get the businessmen on your side.  If you want to create jobs, if you want peace in this Province, then you have got to go out to cultivate and get close to the businessmen, and show them the vision you have for this Province.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you, Mr Matthee.  I now call upon Miss Xulu who has 12 minutes.

MS M XULU: (Whip):  Ngiyabonga Mhlonishwa Somlomo, Mhlonishwa Ndunankulu, neNdlu ehloniphekileyo.  Ngiyayincoma ibhajethi kaBaba uMhlonishwa u-Miller nemisebenzi yakhe.

Baba Somlomo, ngizwa nginokwesaba ngesabela thina besifazane nezingane zethu.  Lokhu kwesaba kusuka ezinkulumeni engizizwa imihla nayizolo ikakhulukazi ezisivusa ekuseni eziqhamuka kubaHoli abakhona layiNdlini ngaphesheya engizibona zingakhi, engizibona lezinkulumo zibasela umlilo wamazwi.

Bese ngizibuza Somlomo, ukuthi kukhona yini ukuthula okuzobakhona kulelizwe lakithi, uma abaHoli bethu bekhuluma ngaloluhlobo lwamazwi.  Ngibe sengifikelwa ukwesabake ukuthi lolukhetho esiyakulo luzoba ukhetho olukhululekile noma luzoba ukhetho okuzogijima wonke umuntu na?

Okubi ikho lokhu ebengikuzwa uMhlonishwa ingane yomfundisi ikusho la phambi kwethu uMhlonishwa uManzankosi kubi ngoba nangu akasekho,  umzalwane wakithi eLuthela lo kodwa amazwi aphumayo ayangesabisa.  Akusontwa kusepolitikini vele ngiyakwazi lokho.

UMhlonishwa uthi ikhomishani yabo iyona khomishani yangempela ezophenya.  Le okuthiwa ayiphenya izibhamu okukade kukhulunywa  ngazo ayi kusho ukuthi akuyona ngoba ayikhethiwe u-State President.

Kuyangesabisa ukuthi usasebenzisa amandla u-State President okuba u-State President noma usebenzisa amandla obuqembu.  Uma ezokhipha ikhomishani ezophenya akasiphenyele phela ukuthi ziphi izibhamu ezavunywa uMhlonishwa u-Jeff Radebe.

Wahamba waya ku-TRC wathi kade ezithutha izibhamu ezifaka la KwaZulu.  Ziphi lapho zikhona?  Uma kuphenywa phela akuphenywe.  Singakahlali kuleNdlu amanye amalunga angaphesheya ayezifake emgqonyeni kadoti nilale ebusuku nivuke umgqomo awusekho e-Lamont.

Umgqomo ususemangcwabeni kaGijima.  Azilandwe phela lezozibhamu ezazifakwa emgqonyeni kadoti, ukuze sibone ukuthi kufuneka ukuthi lelizwe libe yilo.

TRANSLATION:  Thank you, hon Speaker, hon Premier and the hon House.  I commend Mr Miller's budget and his work.  Mr Speaker, I am fearful, fearful for us women and our children.  This fear originates from the speeches I heard, particularly those that awake us in the morning, coming from leaders across there in this House, which, as I see them, are not constructive, which to me, seem to be igniting the fire of words.  

I then ask myself, Mr Speaker, if there will be any peace in this country of ours if our leaders use these type of words.  I then become fearful on whether this country, this coming election, will be a free election, or an election where everyone will be running.

What is bad is what I heard said before us by the hon son of the minister of religion, the hon Manzankosi.  Unfortunately he has left.  We worship together at the Lutheran Church, yet the words coming from him terrify me.  I know that this is not worship, it is politics.  

The hon member says their commission is the real commission that will investigate.  This means that the commission charged with investigating guns that people have been talking about is not real, because it was not elected by the State President.

It terrifies me to think whether the State President is still using his powers as State President, or whether he is using the powers of a party.  If he is going to charge a commission to investigate, he must investigate for us the whereabouts of the guns that the hon Jeff Radebe acknowledged.  He went to the TRC and said he was running guns into KwaZulu-Natal.  Where are they?  
If there is to be an investigation, then investigate.  Before we sat in this House, some of the members who are across, used to put them in rubbish bins.  At night you would go to sleep and wake up to find that the rubbish bin is no longer there in Lamontville.  The rubbish bin would be at the graveyard at Kwa-Gijima.  The guns that used to be placed in rubbish bins, should be brought back so that we can see that this country is supposed to be what it should be.  T/E

MR R M BURROWS:  Mr Speaker, on a point of order. 

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can the hon member sit down.

MR R M BURROWS:  With respect, I know the hon member is using two microphones, but quite frankly the sounds that are coming through the two microphones completely overwhelm the translation.  We cannot even hear the translation.  So could the hon member, and I know she is making an important speech, just lower it.  We can hear her perfectly.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Well, I think what we are going to do is we are just going to make a passionate request to the hon member.  But I am finding it difficult to try and get the members to constrain the manner in which they speak.  It is very, very difficult.  I understand it.  I find it difficult though.  But I am going to make that passionate plea to the hon member.

MS M XULU: (Whip):  Ngiyethemba ukuthi Mhlonishwa uzosibuyisa lesisikhathi sami osusithathile.  Sizocela ukuthi okunye uma sekuphenywa phela akuphenywe ukuthi baphi ababulala abaHoli be-IFP abangaphezu kwamakhulu amane.  Baphi ababulala izinkulungwane ngezinkulungwane zabalandeli be-IFP?  Kobakuhleke ukuthi lekhomishani yabo ikuphenye konke lokho.

Mhlonishwa Somlomo, siya okhethweni sifuna ukhetho lube olukhululekile, sifuna ukhetho singazizwa sesaba, sesatshiswa amazwi lawa esengikhulume ngawo.  Nabalandeli bethu, nabantu nje emphakathini kufanele bezwe ukuthi baya entweni yabo abayithandayo okufanele bazikhethele.

Okunye Mhlonishwa kuyeke lokhu ukuthi uma abantu mhlawumbe lana emalokishini kukhona izinto abayozifuna iKhansela beselithi ngeke ngikwenzele ngoba kufanele uze ungivotele.  

Okwesibili mhlawumbe uMhlonishwa ngoba akasekho ngiyakucela ukuthi bamtshele ukuthi akayofuna i-information yokuthi mangaki amaKhansela ka-IFP eMlazi, ngoba kuyacaca ukuthi uMhlonishwa wathola i-information e-wrong.  Nalapho kufanele uyofuna ukuthi mangaki amaKhansela.

Mhlonishwa Somlomo, izethembiso esasizizwa eminyakeni emine eyedlule ikakhulukazi ziphuma kuye uMhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe wezokuThutha zithanda ukusisanganisa ngoba sesiyongena manje eminyakeni wesihlanu manje siyaqeda.

Wathi uMhlonishwa uzokwakha imigwaqo eya esigodlweni seSilo.  Sibonile kuvulwa lapha ngo-February Isilo sifika late, ihlazo Isilo siphantshelwa imoto, yini ephantshisa imoto?  Imigwaqo kayikho.  Kwagcinwa kwakhe uHulumeni waKwaZulu.

UMhlonishwa wathi uzofaka oyibhodlela kuyoyonke imigwaqo eya esigodlweni seSilo kuze kube inamhlanje besingakakuboni lokho.  Ocwebezelayo iwona ke lowo oyibhodlela.

Mhlonishwa sinenkinga lapha ezindaweni esihlala kuzo emalokishini abantu bathola ukuthi amaKhansela ababiza amanzi.  Ushilo la umfowethu uMthiyane ngenyanga eyodwa kuthiwa khokha u-R600 ukhokhele amanzi, uma umuntu eya eKhanseleni ethi alimsize limzwele ukuthi isikweletu esingaka yini, lithi phela kuyofuna ukuthi ungivotele, uma ungivotelile ngiyokusiza.  Kuyoze kubenini abantu behlaliswa empilweni yokwesaba.

Umuntu engezukuba nayo inkululeko yokuzikhethela uma kufanele uthume isisebenzi somphakathi sekufanele ukhokhe ngalokho, ukhokha ngokuthi uyovotaphi?  Sifuna ukhetho olungesabisi

Ngo-November ngonyaka odlule Somlomo, kubulawe Induna ebeyilunga le-IFP uMnumzane u-Aaron Mthembu owayehlala kwa-CC kwasuka udlame kwa-CC wabaleka waya Engonyameni.  Wabuya Engonyameni eya emsebenzini la esebenza khona ekuseni ngo-6:00 o'clock uMthembu wabulawa ngezibhamu ama-AK 47 ngabantu ababanjwa be-ANC.

Kodwa okudabukisayo bebanjwe nezibhamu ezingekho emthethweni. Bebanjwe ngisho nesibhamu sakhe esisemthethweni abamephuca esefile.  Lelizwe leli elingenawo umthetho oyiqiniso, icala likaMthembu lokubulala kulenyanga nje iqalwa lisusiwe kubabulali basala necala lokutholwa nezibhamu nezinhlamvu.

Ngamanye amazwi kuyakhomba ukuthi Somlomo, impilo yelunga le-IFP ayilutho, iyinto nje engabaliwe.  Ngabe siyoba nokhetho olukhululekile umakunjalo, uma nomthetho wenzelela.

Ngicela ukusho manje ukuthi asibambisane ukuze sakhe lelizwe silakhele ukuthula.  Ngicela ukusho manje ukuthi sesikhathele izinkulumo ezishisayo nezibhebhezela udlame kulelizwe esizizwa ikakhulukazi ekuseni makufanele kwakhiwe ukuthula, makufanele kubuyiswane kodwa uzothola ukuthi akukho ukubuyisana, ukubuyisana akukho nhlobo, ngaphandle kodlame.

Ngizocela ukusho ukuthi abaHoli bakaKhongolose abangacheli 
impi engasekho, abachele impi yokuthula, akuthulwe.  Uma sifuna ukuthi sibambisane ngempela ngokukhuluma asibambisane ngoba singakhohlisani, asingakhulumi ngapha ukuthi siyathula, ngapha sikhokhobise abantu abazokwenza ububi.

Ayiphele indaba yalezibhamu esizizwayo ukuthi zigijima la e-Middlelands, zithathwa enkampanini lena esebeyibalile zizobulala abaHoli be-IFP.  Ngiyabonga Somlomo.

TRANSLATION:  I hope, hon member, that you will give me my time that you have taken.  We also ask that when there is an investigation, they investigate the whereabouts of the people who killed more than 400 IFP leaders.  Where are those who killed thousands upon thousands of IFP supporters?  It would be nice if their commission can investigate all this.

Hon Speaker, we are going to elections.  We want elections to be free.  We want an election where we do not feel fearful because of the words I spoke about.  Our followers and other people in the community should feel that they are going to participate in something that belongs to them, something they like and where they will choose for themselves.

Another thing, Mr Speaker, that should stop is that in townships, when people want something from a councillor, that councillor would say he would not do it until those people first vote for him.  Secondly, maybe because the hon member is no longer here, I should ask that he be told that he must go and find information on the number of IFP councillors at Umlazi, because it is clear that the hon member received wrong information.  There too, we must go and find out the number of councillors.

Mr Speaker, the promises we heard four years ago, particularly coming from the hon Minister of Transport, are threatening to confuse us, because we are entering the fifth year now, we are almost finished.  The hon Minister said he would build roads leading to his Majesty's palace.  We saw during the opening in February His Majesty arrived late.  It was a disgrace that His Majesty had a punctured car tyre.  What causes a puncture?  There are no roads.  

Nothing has been built since the KwaZulu Government built.  The hon Minister said he would put bottle-like surfaces on all roads leading to the palace of His Majesty.  Until today we have not yet seen that.  The shining one is the one that is bottle-like.

Mr Speaker, we have a problem where we live in townships.  People find that councillors charge them for water.  My brother Mthiyane said that in one month you were told to pay R600 for water.  When a person goes to a councillor for help in finding out why there is such a debt, the councillor would say: "You would have to vote for me.  If you vote for me, then I will help you".  Until when will people continue to be made to live in fear?  A person will not have the freedom to choose if he or she has to pay with his vote for sending a civil servant.  We want an election without intimidation.

Last November, Speaker, an Induna, Aaron Mthembu, who was an IFP member and who used to live at CC Section, was killed.  When there was an outbreak of violence at CC Section, he fled to Engonyameni.  He returned from Engonyameni.  When he was going to his work-place at 6 o'clock in the morning, Mthembu was killed with AK 47 rifles by ANC people who were caught.  

But what is said is that having been found with illegal firearms, as well as his legal firearms that they took from him when he died, this country that lacks true law, at the beginning of this month, dropped charges of killing Mthembu.  The murderers are left with the charge of possessing firearms and bullets.  In other words, it shows, Mr Speaker, that the life to an ANC member is nothing, it is something that is not considered if even the law is partial.

I would now like to ask for us to co-operate in order to build this country and build it for peace.  I want to say that we are tired of heated discussions that perpetuate violence in this country.  Expressions we hear in the morning when we are supposed to create peace, when there is supposed to be reconciliation, yet you find that there is no reconciliation.  There is no reconciliation, there is just violence.

I ask the leaders of the African National Congress not to spread a war that no longer exists.  They should spread a war for peace.  There should be peace.  If we really want co-operation in discussions, we should co-operate by not deceiving each other.  We should not talk peace on one side and smuggle in people to do evil things on the other.  

This issue of gun-running that we hear about in the Midlands, should stop.  They take them from a company that has been mentioned, in order to kill IFP leaders.  Thank you, Speaker.  T/E

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Ngiyabonga lunga.  [Thank you, member]. 

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can I have a little bit of order, please.  

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can we have order.  Can we have order please.  I will remind the hon members that what everyone has been saying today is that let us go forward towards a non-conflictual situation.  In the past I have had to preside over disciplinary hearings where hon members started talking as they are doing today, and ended up bringing that matter for a disciplinary hearing.  I do not think we want to go back there.  It was not necessary and was unwarranted, and it could have been avoided.  Today we can still avoid it, and the only way to avoid it is that without stifling your heckling, without stifling your own activities as parliamentarians, but please can we do it in a manner that is not going to lead to tension and confrontation.  I now call upon Mr Mabuyakhulu who has 15 minutes.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  Mr Speaker, what this debate has done today, it has separated the men from the boys, and very clearly the men have been identified, and one of those men amongst men that have been identified through this debate is the new member of this Legislature, the hon Mr Kubheka.  It is proven very clearly that our policy of building people who are mature and who are capable of leading in positions of public office bears testimony with the presence of Mr Kubheka in this House today.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  However, what this debate has also shown is that a leopard can never change its spots.  It is unfortunate that the hon Mr Wessel is not in the chamber right now.  However, the hon Mr Wessel spoke about a sinister plot, and that is the usual trash to which we have become accustomed in this House.  Primarily coming from the hon members whom themselves are not present in the chamber, the hon Mr Philip Powell and the hon Arthur Konigkramer, who themselves often speak about intelligence information that comes from sinister quarters, and we never know where they actually get that information from.  More often than not, it has been proven that it is nothing more than just a piece of trash.  You can see, Mr Speaker, when they enter this chamber, both of them, they have probably been to the same source, the Natal Witness, that normally assists them with this trash.

AN HON MEMBER:  Oh Natal Witness.

MR R M BURROWS:  This is rubbish and you know it.

AN HON MEMBER:  What trash is this?

MR R M BURROWS:  NOT ON RECORD

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  What, Mr Speaker, I believe this House needs, it needs members who are dignified, who are able to stand and speak from the truth and do not use facts as they do.

AN HON MEMBER:  Like you.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  However, Mr Speaker, the hon Mr Vezi made his maiden speech and as it is tradition, normally we do not comment on it.  However, from his own admission it was not a maiden speech.  He actually regards himself as having been in Parliament.  He was a member in the former KwaZulu Legislative Assembly.  Clearly he made the wrong speech, at the wrong time, at the wrong place, sitting in the wrong benches, because he was praising the Progressive Federal Party, he was praising the DP and you could see that even his own members were burying their heads in shame.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS AND LAUGHTER

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  All that you can deduce from his speech, Mr Speaker, is that he was crying for the beloved past, and it can never return.  It is gone forever.  Those days will never return.

It is also unfortunate that the hon member Inkosi Mathaba, who is not in the chamber, actually chose this platform to take a very cheap political stance on a very serious matter, a matter of a killing which took place during broad daylight.  Immediately after that killing had taken place the senior members of his own party felt it necessary to fly into the area to protect the killers.  It did not end there.

AN HON MEMBER:  Oh scandalous.  Let us have a commission.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  They have been trying to avoid that those people be arrested and brought to book.

AN HON MEMBER:  Let us have a commission.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Mr Speaker, we will have to be sensitive, that when we speak about matters of this nature which involves people's lives, we must not take a very cheap political stand on that.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, a point of order.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Yes, hon member Mr Tarr.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I think what that member is saying, is that members of this party are protecting killers.

AN HON MEMBER:  Yes.

MR M A TARR: (Chief Whip):  Well, Mr Speaker, quite clearly that is illegal.  To accuse other members in this House of illegal actions is not parliamentary, Mr Speaker.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Mr Speaker, let me clarify.  I have never said members of this House, I said senior members of his party, and anyone can go and listen to the record, that is what I said.

AN HON MEMBER:  Clean your ears Tarr.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  I have never said members of this House, I said senior members of his party, and I hope the hon member was listening.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Mr Speaker, therefore I have actually responded to that, because I felt it was necessary to put the record straight.  However, the thrust of my address is that on a Sunday morning, three weeks ago, I received a telephone call from a top business executive in this Province, and during the ensuing discussion that I had with him, what came out very clearly from that business top executive was a plea, and that was a plea that was coming from the business community to the ANC in particular.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  He conveyed to me that business in this Province hopes that the ANC will rise and will serve KwaZulu-Natal.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  He raised with me business fears about the lack of coherent and a clear programme or economic plan for the Province, particularly from the majority party.  He went on to commend the hon Minister J G Zuma for handling the Economic Affairs Portfolio Committee in the best interests of the Province.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  And to this I also want to add my voice even in the absence of the hon Mr Zuma.

THE SPEAKER:  Again, I would like to ask the hon member Mr Makhaye to behave himself.  Thank you.

MR B H CELE:  But they are doing the same thing with Powell.  The same thing, they are shouting at one another, but only Mr Makhaye that is ...

THE SPEAKER:  I think I have made a ruling.  I am the Speaker of this House.  I will always ask members to behave themselves.

MR R M BURROWS:  They are uncomfortable again.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Thank you, Mr Speaker.  It is not my fault that the time has been taken from me on that one.  To this I add my voice and say, Mr Speaker ...

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I am sorry to interrupt my own colleague.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  The hon member Mrs Cronje.

MRS C M CRONJE: (Chief Whip):  Mr Speaker, I am sorry, but I think the House is entitled to know why you have mentioned Mr Makhaye's name again, because certainly from what I could see or hear, he did nothing wrong, and I think we cannot just single out one member and make him sound as if he is a troublemaker when it is not true.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order please!  I think I have to put this issue straight.  I am sitting here looking at every member of this House.  Just have a look.  What are they doing?  What are they doing?  I ask the hon member to continue with his speech please.  Thank you.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Mr Speaker, I really trust that it is not my fault that there has been some interjection, and probably you will bear with that.

To this, Mr Speaker, and I say I want to add my voice to say to Msholozi in his absence, halala for the good work you have done for the Province.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  It is a fact that it is only the African National Congress that can provide an alternative to the status quo in this Province.  For that reason we have been focusing on that economic alternative.  The plus of it will be found in an economic programme which the ANC will be announcing very shortly.

However, let me clarify some elements of that economic programme.  

AN HON MEMBER:  Another one?

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  The first thing that economic programme will do, it will seek to achieve a capital budgetary strategy whose object is to optimise economic priorities in this Province.  This has not been the case up to now.

The second element of that programme will be to evaluate and to make an assessment of all the assets, particularly provincial assets that we have in this Province, and make strategic decisions about which course of action we need to follow, and we are very clear that there is a definite course of action that needs to be taken in this Province.

The third element of the programme will be to target major development programmes like the Point Waterfront development and the new airport.

MR R M BURROWS:  Privatised are you?

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  These new initiatives and major programmes will definitely be targeted, and we are just talking about them glibly as it is often the case right now.  We have our own targets and specific deadlines, and it is going to emerge very shortly.

The fourth element of the programme, Mr Speaker, will be the reconstruction and ensuring that we upgrade the biggest two ports that we have in this Province, the Port of Richards Bay and the Port of Durban, and in particular we all know that the Port of Richards Bay is the deepest port that we have in this Province, and indeed something should have been done about it a long time ago.  Again, the ANC is going to take a definite stand in terms of how we can go about making that port an international hub, that cannot only serve KwaZulu-Natal and South Africa, but that will also serve the rest of Africa as well.

THE SPEAKER:  Order!  Order please!  Hon member Mr Hamilton.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Mr Speaker, will the hon member take a question?

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  After completing my speech.

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.

MR A J HAMILTON:  Chicken.

AN HON MEMBER:  You are very excited by this hey?

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  The other element of the programme, Mr Speaker, will be of the quantification of government expenditure.  We believe that the time is long overdue that this Provincial Government should actually quantify the government expenditure in a manner that it could be able to get and stimulate private sector investment of an equal value into this Province, and this has not happened.  It is only the African National Congress that is going to put that view forward.

Already as I speak to you, Mr Speaker, today we have been getting an investment to the tune of R150 million that is going to be invested in Richards Bay, in one of the companies, and the announcement will be made before the end of this week about that investment in Richards Bay.

To the business community of KwaZulu-Natal, we say to you, today as we march forward to the attainment of KwaZulu-Natal's economic programme, the ANC is confident that the business community will exercise their heart and franchise wisely in the best interests of the people of this Province and by voting into power the organisation which has made it possible for them and all South Africans to live in dignity, peace and freedom.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR R M BURROWS:  With profit no doubt.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  I strongly believe that the date of 2 June 1999 will truly usher in a new period of social political and economic advancement for all our people in this Province.

THE SPEAKER:  The hon member is left with one minute to wind up his speech.

MR M MABUYAKHULU:  Thank you.  Mr Speaker, let me depart from my speech for a while, and indicate to you once again that when 
politicians interfere in processes that have got nothing to do with them, what you see is what has happened at the University of Zululand over the weekend.  When a rector of a university ceases to act as a rector, and acts as a political cohort, he makes wrong decisions, like the decision of dissolving the SRC.  Today he has been forced to reinstate that SRC, because he acted by political whims and did not act as a rector who is supposed to be acting as a rector for all his students.  The ANC, when it takes over KwaZulu-Natal on 2 June, those things will cease to happen and order will be order.  Thank you, Mr Speaker.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I will now call upon the hon Minister to reply to this debate.  Thank you.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Speaker, I am torn between the fact that it is late, it has been a long debate and members are tired.  I am sure they wish to get home.  I also, however, wish to dignify them all by giving them an appropriate reply.  It is going to be difficult to achieve both.  I will do my best.

I want to start by saying that I want to record the appreciation of the Ministry and the Department of Finance to the Chairman and members of the Finance Portfolio Committee for their co-operation, help which has always been constructive during the course of the year.  They have produced a report which was tabled here today.  We give the undertaking that it will be carefully studied, and wherever possible, recommendations will be implemented as soon as possible.

I just want to mention in general, because it applies to many members who raised this issue, that one of the dilemmas that we face in trying to equitably share the total revenue that we receive as a Province, is that whenever you need more for one particular pet project or one particular department, you actually have to simultaneously say from whom you want that money taken away, because the reality is, that we divide every cent we get between departments and towards redeeming the provincial debt.

I also want to thank the hon Minister of Transport for his kind words, and for all the other members who had kind words to say about the Ministry and the Department.  I want to say in all humility, that although I myself have been the benefit of much very welcome comment, that it is the team in fact that deserves the praise.  It is the Department.  It is my fellow members in Cabinet.  It is their departments.  It is all the financially responsible, the accounting officers in the entire administration that made the achievements possible.  It could not have been done without their help and co-operation, and I trust that it will be seen in that way by everybody.

The hon member Mr Ndebele made a resounding clarion call for peace, speaking I believe very largely in his capacity as the Provincial Chairman of the African National Congress.  I think that was matched earlier today by the resounding clarion call for peace as well made by the Premier in his address, and I think it bodes well for this Province that the two senior leaders present in this chamber should, from different perspectives, be steering on a similar theme.  I am sure that all members in this House join and subscribe to the views expressed by all those participants in this debate who spoke about the need for peace, and what peace could bring to our Province.  It is a given, I would imagine, and it must be accepted by all as such.

The hon Mr Aulsebrook spoke about the stable footing in which finance finds itself, but at the same time mentioned that we were not awash with money.  My comment now applies to what he said and to similar comments made by many other members, but I will not repeat them when I get to address their particular contribution.  But I want to say, Mr Speaker, that in actual fact we in this Province relative to other provinces face quite an exciting time in financial terms.  Why do we face an exciting time?  Because over and above the normal growth that will be experienced by all departments and all provinces, and the nation itself at Central Government level, we will have an accelerated growth coming our way for two reasons.

One, is that our share of the total provincial allocation is set to grow from the present 19,5% to a sum of 20,7%, and that constitutes 1,2% of what will approximately be R100 billion.  So that, quantified, means about R1 billion.  We will also have an extra R500 million approximately to use for the benefit of our people, and for distribution to our departments the moment we get rid of our debt, and that could be in as little as two years, although we have budgeted to do it in three.  So if in addition to this we get a growing economy, we get a bigger tax yield, we in fact are going to be very much better off, very much sooner than we think and I am sure that that is a little bit of a silver lining to the dark cloud that many of you have identified here today.

Mr Haygarth emphasised maintenance.  We could not agree more.  He also emphasised internal audit.  Again, we could not agree more, and it was interesting, he spoke of the rape of local government.  I was hunting in my vocabulary for a word which would describe the action of raping yourself, like suicide means killing yourself.  Because I just want to place on record, that local government is in the process of raping itself so comprehensively by virtue of the fact that as I stand before you here today, local government is owed R12 000 million by its own consumers and ratepayers.  I say here unequivocally tonight that local government cannot complain about what others might have done to R10 million here and R15 million there if they do not collect what is due to them legally and properly.  In this country as a whole, that R12 000 million is growing by R1 000 million a month at the present time.  So it is a very serious situation.

The hon I C Meer whom we all I think in this House see as a senior professional, and he is respected and loved by all, stressed that the budget is the law.  I am glad he said so, because it is indeed the law.  He would have wished that we could bring the personnel cost of education down to only 70% of budget.  I just want to place on record that if we could bring it down from 93% to 85% we would have such a bonanza on our hands that it would really be quite an exciting time for my new colleague the Minister of Education.

Mr Mzobe spoke about ungovernability.  He and I share the slogan: "We have got to make our Province governable again", and I share that sentiment with you, sir.

I was also rather amused about the question of the provinces being described as castrated bulls, and I thought to myself at the moment, of course it has been said in certain places that you always castrate a bull if it does not breed properly and produce nice calves.  So if we as provinces want not to be described as castrated bulls, we have got to deliver the goods.  I think you heard this morning in our Premier's reply to the debate, that is exactly what he intends this administration under his leadership to do.

Mr Burrows spoke about the registration of voters.  Interesting concerning the actual figures he mentioned.  But I do just want to assure him that the present Fiscal and Financial Commission formula is in fact already amended by the Department of Finance.  In other words, our money is not distributed according to the direct recommendation of the FFC.  The National Ministry of Finance has amended that formula to take in certain things such as backlogs and so on, and the FFC is undertaking research to try and cover the very issues of the aged and the young that we find in a province such as ours.  Tender Board activities are receiving attention, and will receive further attention in the coming weeks.

Mr Hamilton spoke with great passion, as he always does, on the question of the port and the airport.  I want to say that there is not a person in this room who does not believe that the expansion of the port and the airport would do a lot for our Province.  The dilemma that we have of course, and this also applies to the hon Mr Matthee and others who raised the issue, is that does a government such as ours actually have an obligation to fund a private limited public company?  That is a further debate.  I do not want to go into the matter right now, because there are very sensitive negotiations and discussions going on right at this moment.

Mr Rajbansi has left.  He dealt with the needs of the Indian minority, as he so often does.  I will leave it at that.

Ms Nahara, the hon, dealt with the issue of gender and the women's caucus.  Like Mr Kubheka who dealt with the issue of the youth, I want to say that grey haired, middle aged men such as myself always have a fear for the ladies on the one side and the youth on the other, and you trust that you do not get squeezed between the two.  [LAUGHTER]  But quite clearly of course, this budget per se does not make provision for gender issues, but then every department within its own structures should be attending to the gender needs within their line function.

Mr Volker dealt with positive transformation and the role that the NP can play in that.  I will leave this simply by saying, that if I was a bookie I would place a certain bet, that the only party in this room that will come back with less members after 2 June will in fact be the New National Party.

AN HON MEMBER:  No chance.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  I hope that those that do come back will in fact make a contribution to positive transformation.

Mr Mthiyane dealt with a variety of issues.  In particular, there was some controversy concerning what he might or might not have said concerning what was going on at registration offices and other places, but I think he made his point and we can leave it at that for the time being.

Mr Mkhwanazi and his victims of political violence, I am sure that the hon colleague in our Cabinet, the Minister for Economic Affairs and Tourism was listening to that situation.  I have believed for a long time that part of our RDP funding which is in our budget, R174 million which will be carried forward to next year, could well be used for purposes such as this, but it will be the Cabinet to decide on the detail of that.

Mr Tarr dealt with economic and political issues.  In his contribution we came up with the situation of 41 political parties participating in the election.  I wonder how many of us share the view that that is quite absurd, and perhaps we should have a situation where parties that cannot make a minimum threshold should not be allowed simply to confuse the issue in an election.  The realignment of political parties, however, is something which I am sure is going to happen, particularly after 2 June, and in the next five years of the new South Africa.

Mrs Downs made a lot of points.  She apologised for not being here.  She said she wished to read in the Hansard what my reply was.  May I simply say that there was some confusion in what she contributed, because of course classrooms and textbooks and everything are not funded by the 12% or 13%, they come out of the main budget that is given to the social services of which the major portion goes to education.  I wish to correct a misconception that she had, namely that new increases in the conditions of service for civil servants are funded out of our budget.  We have to fund out of our budget the carry through of the ones already granted, but any new conditions of service improvements that might be announced say in the 1999/2000 year, will be funded to us via the Adjustment Estimates in the National Assembly.

Mr Panday, in his maiden speech, revisited very largely the speech of the hon the Premier this morning, and it is perhaps not entirely appropriate that in replying to the debate on the budget that I should have much to say to that, save to say that he made some very telling points.

AN HON MEMBER:  Just trying to get onto the list.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mrs Mohlaka, and later on Mr Matthee both dealt with the Y2K problem.  Let me say that even prior to being given that task by the Premier in my capacity as the MEC for Local Government, I was actively involved in dealing with this issue.  There is a problem, however, but the major problem lies with local government, and it is in fact local government which has to take the decision to do something about it.  Our competency ends with our responsibility to encourage them to do something about it.  We cannot step in and do something on their behalf.  They are today royal game in a sense, because they have been elevated no longer to a tier of government, but are now a sphere of government with autonomy and independence ranking the same as National or Provincial Government.  In fact in many instances of course I believe that National believes that local government ranks above provincial government.

Mr Cele took us through a fascinating bit of history that started with Karl Marx and ended with Goebbels, and bypassed Garibaldi, and Bismarck, and Hitler, and Mussolini, and Himmler, and the lot while we were talking about it.

AN HON MEMBER:  And missed out Joe Stalin.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Missed out Joe Stalin.  That is true.  And he also missed out of course that Joe Stalin claimed that he was following the teaching of Karl Marx.  Nonetheless, his plea to stop political violence was also, I think, to be welcomed in the context of so many pleas from all round this House in that particular field.  It was perhaps particularly appropriate that he should make a plea to stop political violence.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Inkosi Mathaba spent much time, and justifiably so in pointing out that the former KwaZulu Government had in fact done a lot of good in this Province.  Let me just say one thing, the former KwaZulu Government was head and shoulders above any one of those homeland governments that is today dominated by the ANC.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Whether it is the Transkei, the Ciskei or any of the ones in Northern Province or in North-West Province today, if you are in any way fair minded, the best administration of the lot was the one run under the leadership of Dr M G Buthelezi.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Nel highlighted the disgrace of POPCRU in the Pietermaritzburg Prison, the disgrace of Excalibur.  As a local ratepayer I want to say that there can be no doubt that this side of the House agrees absolutely with both the contentions that Mr Nel made in that regard.

I really want to say, Mr Speaker, that I thought the contribution made by our colleague Mr Vezi was a very impressive one today.  He did focus on local government, and it will be very pleasing if during the debate on the local government he again contributes in this regard, because it was very valuable, and I will leave replies on sizes of local government and that kind of thing to that particular occasion.  But in particular I want to say that his idea that our new Minister of Education should recall teachers who are doing things other than teaching back to the profession of teaching is one that not a single member in this House would not support.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  But we want to add, not just participation in local government, we want to add running taxis, running supermarkets, running building contracting firms.

AN HON MEMBER:  Insurance.

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Selling insurance, and all the other activities that have become the norm in many areas, and if we do that then we are assured of better tuition and better education generally.

Mrs Millin raised a particularly important issue about the country's foreign debt.  I want to say with all the authority at my command obtained from the National Minister himself through the Budget Council, that the cry from organisations such as Jubilee 2000, that there is billions and billions and billions of debt that could just be written off as odious debt, is in fact so totally incorrect as to be absurd.  The reality is that deep into the 90s in percentage terms, the R300 billion odd that this country has as debt, is debt it owes its own citizens.  It is owed to people with pension plans and insurance policies, and the investors small and big in this country.  The message that will be sent out there, if you just cancelled R1 of that debt unilaterally would be that this country can no longer be relied upon in world financial markets, and its ratings, its ability to borrow, its ability in fact to participate in the world economy will shrink to nought overnight.  It is, as I say, an absurdity, this continual call to write off debt which in fact does not exist.

Ms Xulu's call for leaders to act responsibly and to stop the talk which puts fear into particularly women and children is well received I am sure by everybody in this House.  It is also very true of course, as somebody else also pointed out earlier today, I think it was Mr Haygarth, it always takes two to tango, and the reality is that if there is to be any form of nationally instituted commission, it must remember that if it comes to this Province it must act in an even handed way, and investigate everybody equally.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  And the point was made from this side of the House that there were also motes in the eyes of members on the other side of the House, as they are so want to say that there are motes in the eyes of members on this side of the House.  Remember that it can so easily happen that one gets hoist with your own petard.

Finally, may I close, Mr Speaker, by saying that the theme of the hon Mike Idi Ameen Mabuyakhulu was trash.  [LAUGHTER]  I want to say the word "trash" aptly describes the speech he made.  Particularly the early part of the speech, because he was in fact summing up on behalf of the party he represents, I imagine.  For him to claim that he will come out with some kind of business charter or business plan which is going to really win over the business people of this Province and this country, when sitting in his midst are his SACP and COSATU mates who are doing everything they can to ruin business, is to say the least, a little incredulous.  May I just say, sir, that I have no doubt that amongst my colleagues in the ANC in this House, and in other places, there are some good free marketeers present there.  I have learnt that over the years.  [LAUGHTER]  But there are some good socialists too, and there are some good unionists too, and I have never yet been able to discover whether Mr Mabuyakhulu gains his position in that nice white robe that he is sitting in there today through his membership of the SACP, or whether he is a unionist, whether he is an ANC, or whether he is a hybrid of all three.  Remember when you are a hybrid, you are a mere hobbledehoy neither man nor boy, it is a meaningless thing.

HON MEMBERS:  INTERJECTIONS

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Quantifying government expenditure.  I really thought about that for a moment.  The statement was made that government expenditure has never been quantified.  I wonder what a budget is, other than an quantification of exactly what the government expenditure is going to be.

AN HON MEMBER:  INTERJECTION

MR P M MILLER: (Minister of Finance and Local Government):  Mr Speaker, I have tried to meet my objective of replying to everybody as quickly as I can.  The members are now genuinely tired.  I thank you for the privilege of addressing the House.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Thank you, hon Minister.  We have come to the end of the debate.  Before I close, I do not know whether the hon Premier has an announcement to make?

THE PREMIER:  Hon Speaker, I have no announcements to make.  Thank you.

HON MEMBERS:  Hear! Hear!

THE SPEAKER:  Therefore the House adjourns until 2 o'clock tomorrow morning.

AN HON MEMBER:  Tomorrow morning?  [LAUGHTER]

THE SPEAKER:  Tomorrow.  2 o'clock tomorrow, in the afternoon.  Thank you.

	HOUSE ADJOURNED AT 19:47 UNTIL
	14:00 ON WEDNESDAY, 17 MARCH 1999




