&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

&#9;HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

&#9;SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE:&#9;13 JUNE 1997&#9;&#9;

NAME:&#9;ELIZABETH BIBI 

CASE:&#9;&#9;EC2149&#9;&#9;-&#9;MDANTSANE

DAY:&#9;&#9;5

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Bibi. We welcome you Mrs Elizabeth Bibi. Please stand up to take the oath. 

ELIZABETH BIBI: (Duly sworn in, states).

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mam. You may sit down. Tiny May will lead you in evidence on behalf of the Commission. 

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Good afternoon to you Mam.

MRS BIBI: Good afternoon.

MS MAYA: You are going to tell us about Michael Bibi who disappeared for 21 years from 1976. 

MRS BIBI: Yes Mam, that is so.

MS MAYA: Could you tell us what happened.

MRS BIBI: Michael Bibi got lost after at school Themba Labantu. That is where he went to school. He was in matric there. When we realised that Michael was not at school, first of all. I would just like to start all over again. I thank the Commission for giving me this opportunity to talk about my child who disappeared. We would send Michael to school at Themba Labantu. He was in standard ten at the time. We were not aware that he was not at school, because in August he came home requesting an examination fee. His father gave it to him. He went back to school. He said that he will, my husband said that he is going to circumcise my son in December but that, but he was not going to tell him that. He was not going to warn him of this.

&#9;We had a tuck-shop. We were going to go to church and somebody told us that Michael had come home in a red car and there were others in the car. When we asked what he said and why he had come home, apparently he did not say anything, he just greeted and he took five Lexington cartons from our tuck-shop. He took some money and back to the shop and the car left with him. A small police car from the Special Branch came. It was a heft policeman that came to us. He was slightly crippled. It was a Xhosa man. He asked me if I was with, I knew Michael. I, they asked where Michael was. I said Michael is at school. He was, this policeman was with another White one. 

&#9;He then said somebody must go to his school at Themba Labantu. The father went to the principal. He said that the school principal said that they were there to educate children that were well mannered and not children who were not properly brought up. The principal said that my husband must go to the police to report that he had lost a child. The police said exactly the same thing that the policeman had said. 

MS MAYA: Did you manage to find him?

MRS BIBI: No, up until today we do not know where he is. Michael left while I had just operated. I had three operations. Now I have eight operations, but up until today we never found Michael. I looked for him everywhere from time to time, but we got disappointed, because we hoped that where he was he may be safe. Although we were not aware of whether he belonged to any organisation, we just heard that he was active in politics. Mr Mabotho and his wife came to my home, because their son left with Michael. When others, when other children came back to this country we hoped to see Michael, but we never saw him. 

&#9;I went to ANC offices complaining that my son is not coming back. I asked the ANC office to look for him. They gave me another date to come back. I then came back. I met one man, but I do not remember his surname. His name was Galikie, Yoyong Galikie. He said that he was going to phone Johannesburg so that they can check Michael in their computer. I said that in 1976 there were no computers. Michael left in 1976. He said that they have a list of the people who left this country. He phoned Johannesburg. He was told that his name was not in that list. He advised me to go to other organisations, to PAC in King William's Town.

&#9;I went to King William's Town. When I got to the PAC office I was told to come the following day so that I can meet with Mr Maklaka who was their leader. I met Mr Mfaka. I arrived at the office in the morning and Mr Maklaka came in in the afternoon. I told him my story that I lost my son. I gave him my name and my particulars. This man said that we are going to try. He asked whether my child had an ID book. I said yes. I would like to apologise to my husband, because I stole this ID book from him. He would ask me where Michael's ID book was. I would say that I do not know. Mr Mfaka wanted this ID book and I stole it from my husband. I took it to Mr Mfaka in King William's Town. 

&#9;He said that there are, that ID book would help them to find Michael. I left it there. I would like you to forgive me, because I have thought about certain information after I have given out my statement. When I was about to go out Mr Mfaka said that, Mam, most of the children died. Some of the drowned in the river. At that time he was pushing me outside. He said that maybe your child was there. He died outside the country. I cried and this other woman, we were crying for our children. Even if I see a police van or if I see soldiers I would cry. I took a taxi back home. 

MS MAYA: Excuse me Mam. The young man, the other boy, Mabotho, who left with your son, did he come back?

MRS BIBI: Apparently, he was shot while trying to come back to this country. 

MS MAYA: Therefore, up until now you do not know where your son is?

MRS BIBI: Yes, I would like the Commission to help me. Even if my son is dead. I only want to know where his grave is and how he died so that we can be able, can be able to have a memorial service. I suffered from a heart attack because of this. Even if I see a police car or soldiers I cry. Sometimes I wake up at night crying. Again I lost my son and he would have, he would be supporting me today. The Ciskeian Police also took part in, they dispersed teargas when there was a show in Ciskei and I lost a child there. My child died. My child paid for this show, but the police dispersed the teargas to the people who paid their R6,00, who were inside the stadium. I would like the Commission to investigate those police who were on duty in 1987 during the Brenda Fassie festival. I would like them to come forward and apologise to me and I will forgive them.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mam. I will hand over to the Chairperson. Maybe you will be asked questions.

CHAIRPERSON: What is Michael's Xhosa name?

MRS BIBI: He does not have it.

CHAIRPERSON: Mam, this is a very sad story, but all these stories are very sad, but I think the disappearance of children is a very painful thing. Parents are not aware of whether they are still alive or not. They look forward to get a letter or a telephone call saying that their children are still alive. We would like to sympathise with you as the Commission. We will try to talk to the PAC office, because it is clear that they have a knowledge or they know where he was. If we found out something we will report back to you. 

&#9;The second one, your second request about investigating the Ciskeian Police. I think we have to get more information concerning this matter so that we can try and help you. For now we thank you Mam. We hope that God will be with you so that you can get strength. It is very painful not to know whether your child is still alive or not. This wound will be healed when you know the truth. Thank you Mam.

MRS BIBI: Reverend, what I would like to ask is that Mr Mfaka who told me to bring the photograph of my child, I would like him to bring it back to me or to try and go to Pretoria and to ask for this photograph. Some of these children said that my children want this photograph back. So I would like the Commission to help me to go to Mr Mfaka so that he can bring my child's photograph back. He must hand it over to the ANC offices where I belong so that I can be able to get it.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mam. We have also noted that request. Thank you. 

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